Classic & Vintage - Huret Duopar

I have a chance to buy one of these for $55 and free shipping. I think they're ugly, but I've heard that they work better than any other vintage long cage derailer. I would be replacing a Nuovo Record with a Rally cage because I don't like the way it shifts. The Huret appears to be in great condition and it does have the titanium cage.

Should I go for it?

http://velobase.com/ViewSingleComponent.aspx?ID=42FE7685-2CF0-4168-9D48-082F8D20D4A0&Enum=108&AbsPos=8

yes, an eco (steel version) just sold on ebay for like $50 the titanium ones usually go for much more, if you don't like it I'll buy it from you.

I recently won one on eBay for about $34 shipped from the UK, so you might get a better deal if you wait. I haven't put it in service yet, so no info on functionality.

Neal

I ran both the titanium and the steel versions back in the 1980's. Then they disappeared along with Huret. They were the smoothest, cleanest shifting RD's I've ever seen. I'd trade in my Ultegra RD's in a flash for a NOS Huret Duopar. Steel or titanium. They both feel the same. :thumb:

I bought it. I'm sure I'll be able to recoup my money by selling my NR with Rally and standard cages. I'll be replacing one of the prettiest derailers ever with one of the ugliest, but that's okay if it works better.

Thanks for your responses!

Yes, these shifted very well - had them on touring bikes in the 80's. But reliability was an issue for me. The latest version had a plastic housing that would crack. The other one lost its small bits readily.

I doubt if you will be disappointed. Sporty's Eco Duopar shifts significantly better then the 2nd gen Rally on my '66 Paramount.

You did the right thing - you might get lucky and find one cheaper, but you might wait years to do so - you got a pretty nice deal.
Edit: Oops, forgot to mention that the little keyed washer on the bolt that alines the derailleur properly in the dropout is a pretty important bit to have. Some Duopars have lost their along the way.

You did the right thing - you might get lucky and find one cheaper, but you might wait years to do so - you got a pretty nice deal.
Edit: Oops, forgot to mention that the little keyed washer on the bolt that alines the derailleur properly in the dropout is a pretty important bit to have. Some Duopars have lost their along the way.

Just what I was going to add!

I have two that I used for a year, with zero reliability issues.

Just be aware that they are delicate by today's standards. So approach with a Zen-attitude and adjust it perfectly. I saw one that wasn't adjusted - a titanium one - properly. It shifted into the spokes and was chewed into literal pieces. Once adjusted - you're going to love it!

I have a chance to buy one of these for $55 and free shipping. I think they're ugly, but I've heard that they work better than any other vintage long cage derailer. I would be replacing a Nuovo Record with a Rally cage because I don't like the way it shifts. The Huret appears to be in great condition and it does have the titanium cage.

Should I go for it?

http://velobase.com/ViewSingleComponent.aspx?ID=42FE7685-2CF0-4168-9D48-082F8D20D4A0&Enum=108&AbsPos=8
The Duopar is a great derailleur; I have several on bikes here. My commuter bike has an original 1978 "Eco" (steel) version I've been using continuously since I bought it new.

Looking at the pictures in the link you provided, I suspect that the unit on offer is actually an "Eco" model. All the titanium ones I've seen (including several I have here) have dark titanium bodies and cages, while the Eco models have the lighter steel bodies and cages.

Titanium on the top row, steel on the bottom row:

http://os2.dhs.org/~john/duopars.jpg

The Duopar is a great derailleur; I have several on bikes here. My commuter bike has an original 1978 "Eco" (steel) version I've been using continuously since I bought it new.

Looking at the pictures in the link you provided, I suspect that the unit on offer is actually an "Eco" model. All the titanium ones I've seen (including several I have here) have dark titanium bodies and cages, while the Eco models have the lighter steel bodies and cages.

Titanium on the top row, steel on the bottom row:

http://os2.dhs.org/~john/duopars.jpg

You can also see the bluish tinge to the arms on the Ti ones.

Yes - the titanium Duopar's are a distinct bluish-gray color. And came with a little sticker that simply says TITANE. But this was separate from the derailleur itself. The "Eco" is steel-colored.

I just posted a link to a picture on Velobase. That's not the one I bought.

There's a new titanium cage on eBay right now if anyone wants to upgrade their Eco.

The keyed washer issue has me worried. I hope it's there!

I have been running one my touring bike since.. I dunno, a long time ago. Worked great on 5, 6, and 7-speed freewheels (same evolving bike). But a bit touchy on 9 speed.

Slightly related, have any of you had experience with DuoPar FD? cudak888 sent me one to use on "Sporty" to complement the Eco DuoPar RD already installed. I'm debating using it because I don't know if it can handle a triple crankset. Your advice is appreciated. Here's the one pictured in the 1978 Catalogue, which looks like mine:
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p71/pastorbobnlnh/Super%20Sports/Sporty%20Aug%202008/Page04-1.jpg

Here is a picture of an ECO on my 1973 SS Schwinn and it is at least equal to or better than any other friction shifting derailleur I own. Roger

Slightly related, have any of you had experience with DuoPar FD? cudak888 sent me one to use on "Sporty" to complement the Eco DuoPar RD already installed. I'm debating using it because I don't know if it can handle a triple crankset. Your advice is appreciated. Here's the one pictured in the 1978 Catalogue, which looks like mine:
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p71/pastorbobnlnh/Super%20Sports/Sporty%20Aug%202008/Page04-1.jpg

I don't want to come off like a smartass, but the catalog page you posted says double or triple.

Does anybody have a picture of that "keyed washer"?

DD, well, you did come off like one--- and maybe I'm a dumb a** for not asking the question better. So here goes again:

Has anyone had experience using the Duopar RD (pictured above) with their triple crankset? If so how did it work out? Thanks!

Has anyone had experience using the Duopar RD (pictured above) with their triple crankset? If so how did it work out? Thanks!
I have Duopars installed on 3 bikes here, all with triples:

50-45-28 with 13-28 freewheel & bar end shifters
48-44-26 with 13-30 freewheel & down tube shifters
47-42-26 with 14-30 freewheel & down tube shifters

All work just fine.

I got this on Ebay for $17.00 plus shipping. Great deal, at first sight, but it lacks aforementioned keyed washer and therefore not useable.

Somebody in possession of this crucial element, please post a pic or lend it to me, and I'll have a machinist make a stack for all us in need.

BTW, I think they are beautiful in their own utilitarian fashion.


http://www.fivenineclimber.com/images/cinelli/duopar.jpg

Does anybody have a picture of that "keyed washer"?
There were actually several versions of the keyed washer, depending on what dropout you were using: one for the Huret-type dropouts, one for the unthreaded Simplex dropouts, and one for the Campy type dropouts.

I'll have to see if I can find some without removing a derailleur from one of the bikes.

I have Duopars installed on 3 bikes here, all with triples:

50-45-28 with 13-28 freewheel & bar end shifters
48-44-26 with 13-30 freewheel & down tube shifters
47-42-26 with 14-30 freewheel & down tube shifters

All work just fine.

John,

Thanks! :thumb:

This was the kind of confirmation I was hoping to receive. :)

There were actually several versions of the keyed washer, depending on what dropout you were using: one for the Huret-type dropouts, one for the unthreaded Simplex dropouts, and one for the Campy type dropouts.

I'll have to see if I can find some without removing a derailleur from one of the bikes.
Ok, here's a couple pictures of the Huret tabbed washers. These were not unique to the Duopar derailleurs, so if you can find a cheap/mangled Challenger or Success derailleur you can salvage the hardware for them to get your Duopar up and running. The old "Alvit" and "Svelto" units also used a tabbed washer but generally came on the Huret-type mounting claw and won't directly work on a Campy type dropout.

Here's the Huret-type claw and hardware on the top row and Campy-type mounting hardware on the bottom row:

http://os2.dhs.org/~john/huret-tab.jpg

Here's a close-up of the tabbed washer:

http://os2.dhs.org/~john/huret-washer.jpg

Note that in addition to the bent tab designed to catch the stop on the dropout, there are also a pair of punched indents in the washer to fit into a slot on the derailleur to hold it in place. You can get by with a simple flat washer if you crank the mounting bolt down hard to prevent the derailleur from pivoting on the mounting bolt, but that complicates wheel removal and is less than ideal.

Thanks a bunch for the detail shots, John.

I just need one thing clarified: the tabs on the washer in lower photo are off set 90 degrees compared to the ones in the top image. I suspect the lower one is from a different derailer?

Jan

Thanks a bunch for the detail shots, John.

I just need one thing clarified: the tabs on the washer in lower photo are off set 90 degrees compared to the ones in the top image. I suspect the lower one is from a different derailer?

Jan
Darn it, no. That's the difference between the 2 types of tab. Somehow I got 2 Huret type tabs in that first shot. :notamused:

The Duopar is a great derailleur. I had originally had one on my touring bike when it was still friction shifting. It was mated to an old Suntour 14-34 freewheel with a Shimano IG chain and Shimano 8 speed barcons and the shifting was undoubtedly the best I have ever experienced from a friction bike.
I like how you can simply disengage the parallelogram spring by pulling it away from the tab stop. It's a nifty little feature.

I'll contribute here if anyone can tell me if this one is properly assembled. It was original equipment on an early-80's Trek 720 and had been replaced with a Deore; it was in pieces and I think this is how it all fits but I'm not sure. It's a Sachs-Huret Duopar and is this the titanium model? The rear plate on the cage has a bluish tinge and I've never seen metal jockey wheels like this before.

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj102/shouteefbock/Sachs-Huret%20Duopar/Sachs-Huretduopar007.jpg

More pics here:

http://s270.photobucket.com/albums/jj102/shouteefbock/Sachs-Huret%20Duopar/

I'll contribute here if anyone can tell me if this one is properly assembled. It was original equipment on an early-80's Trek 720 and had been replaced with a Deore; it was in pieces and I think this is how it all fits but I'm not sure. It's a Sachs-Huret Duopar and is this the titanium model? The rear plate on the cage has a bluish tinge and I've never seen metal jockey wheels like this before.

More pics here:

http://s270.photobucket.com/albums/jj102/shouteefbock/Sachs-Huret%20Duopar/

It looks like you have all the important pieces. The should be a plastic plug that fits into the hollow mounting bolt, but it's just there for cosmetic purposes.

The jockey wheels look like 3rd party replacements -- Bullseye perhaps? But the upper pulley on the Duopar was fairly unique and I don't recall if Bullseye made a Duopar specific pulley for this. I'm not sure why you'd want them anyway -- the Duopar Ti pulleys used cup and cone ball bearings rather than the sleeve bearings typical of other manufacturers (even Campy and Dura-Ace).

Tab up or tab down when mounting?

Up, as I recall. But there's a flat on my bike's brazed-on RD tab. Fiddle with it and see where it feels it should go. And yes - that's a titanium model. The Bullseye pulleys came with a bunch of washers to fit them on where there was a wider pulley up top. They were the rage back then, but they didn't do anything spectacular - aside from change the sound the RD made as the chain rolled through it. They will last a long time They are aluminum.

Up, as I recall. But there's a flat on my bike's brazed-on RD tab. Fiddle with it and see where it feels it should go. And yes - that's a titanium model. The Bullseye pulleys came with a bunch of washers to fit them on where there was a wider pulley up top. They were the rage back then, but they didn't do anything spectacular - aside from change the sound the RD made as the chain rolled through it. They will last a long time They are aluminum.

:thumb:

Tab up or tab down when mounting?

The tab catches the stop on the dropout, so it goes toward the bike. The little protrusions on the back of the washers go into the notches on the derailer.

I just realized that I bought a nice derailer with no mounting bolt or washers.
I'm screwed! Anybody got a broken one to sell me? I might be able to fabricate the parts, but I don't know.

Shifts absolutely great BUT... as PeeWee Herman said "Everyone has a big but," ... the chain can derail off the Duopar's pulley cage when you roll the bike backwards and bind up the Duopar rear derailleur, leading to BIG problemo if you don't stop rolling the bike backwards. That's why some used to fabricate a pulley cage that captured the chain better on the upper pulley. Your mileage may vary....

Just for your historical elucidation: When the Duopar abruptly vanished off the market, someone had to step up to the plate. Especially considering that mountain-bikes were the rage. Everyone wanted a triple up front, and as many gears in the rear as was possible. The 18 spd. was born. And the Duopar would have been the logical choice for it's range, but it really was to delicate for screaming down mountains. Enter SunTour -

The SunTour Mountech came out around 1983, as I recall, and it had the range to accommodate the new MB rage. So we all bought one (or two). These beasties had enough range to likely handle Campy's new 11 spd. with a triple front. And SunTour was happy as they were at war with Shimano. But after raging success - it was found that the spring in the weird upper-pulley that the Mountech had would spontaneously self-destruct. Sometimes violently enough to cause crashes.

With that , and other things that went wrong, Shimano ended up winning the war. And SunTour rode off into the sunset. I still have a Mountech in excellent condition - living in a baggies. Pity - they were excellent derailleurs.

By the by, I could back-pedal and roll my bike backwards with the Duopar. Check the adjustment angle.

http://i424.photobucket.com/albums/pp323/nagognog/2557178302_8106cc1b55.jpg

The tab catches the stop on the dropout, so it goes toward the bike. The little protrusions on the back of the washers go into the notches on the derailer.

I just realized that I bought a nice derailer with no mounting bolt or washers.
I'm screwed! Anybody got a broken one to sell me? I might be able to fabricate the parts, but I don't know.
See if your LBS has an old parts bin you can dig through. The mounting hardware wasn't Duopar-specific; mounting bolts from Success or Challenger models will also work.

There are conflicting reports I have read on listservers of no problems and critical problems in rolling bikes backwards with Duopar rear derailleurs and chain deraillment to a freewheel cog other than the cog under which the upper pulley is situated. Perhaps it is an adjustment but then those several who have reported problems didn't respond back to the listserver 'oh, you were right, an adjustment fixed it.' Given that there are much better derailleurs available, one can twiddle it as one wishes. Mine is in a box and I've moved on to better and sturdier performance. As usual, your mileage may vary.

There are conflicting reports I have read on listservers of no problems and critical problems in rolling bikes backwards with Duopar rear derailleurs and chain deraillment to a freewheel cog other than the cog under which the upper pulley is situated. Perhaps it is an adjustment but then those several who have reported problems didn't respond back to the listserver 'oh, you were right, an adjustment fixed it.' Given that there are much better derailleurs available, one can twiddle it as one wishes. Mine is in a box and I've moved on to better and sturdier performance. As usual, your mileage may vary.

I'm sure that there are more modern derailers available that work better, but the Duopar was the best available at the time and this is C&V.

See if your LBS has an old parts bin you can dig through. The mounting hardware wasn't Duopar-specific; mounting bolts from Success or Challenger models will also work.

Thank you for that! I'm sure it will be easier to find an old Challenger or Sucess to canibalize. It looks like an Eco will work too, since it's the same thing in all steel.
I think I'll gain a B screw if I can find a late version made for a Campy hanger.

http://homepage3.nifty.com/passhunter/hunter/huret/huret.htm

Meanwhile, I'll make do with this. It shifts like a standard NR, but I don't like the way a NR shifts. I don't want to have to
readjust after every shift. It sure is pretty, though.

http://inlinethumb01.webshots.com/30592/2137752670068014369S600x600Q85.jpg (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2137752670068014369EjuFsL)

An Eco just closed on Ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/Huret-Eco-Duopar-long-cage-derailleur-touring-rando_W0QQitemZ180322721772QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item180322721772&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A4|65%3A13|39%3A1|240%3A1318) for $122, with 17 bids. No mention of it being NOS, but it looks nice. The pictures are carefully arranged not to show the backside so I wonder if the washer is present.

Somebody mentioned in another post that Japanese collectors are fascinated with French components, and this is driving up the Ebay prices. I guess compared to two grand for an Ideale saddle, this Duopar auction is downright reasonable!

http://www.welovecompany.com/sean/ebayimg/huretecod-1232588667-2126.jpg

This is the one that I bought. It clearly states that the mounting hardware is missing so it's my own fault.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110343525233&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.ebay.com%3A80%2F%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm38%26_nkw%3D110343525233%26_sacat%3 DSee-All-Categories%26_fvi%3D1

I received the Duopar today. It's not so ugly in person. The body as well as the cage is titanium, according to my magnet. The titanium parts are painted. It's a complicated derailer and it looks delicate, so I'm going to hang on to the long-armed Nouvo Record. I bought a cheap Huret just for the mounting bolt and washer, so I won't be able to mount the Duopar until it arrives.

They are rather delicate. I wouldn't put it on a bike that was going to see off-roading more than packed dirt trails.

I'm sure that there are more modern derailers available that work better, but the Duopar was the best available at the time and this is C&V.

At the risk of offending the many europhiles in C&V I'd like to play the devil's advocate for a moment and disagree with that claim. If you agree that there are better modern derailleurs than the Duopar then I think it's a fair argument to make that it can't be the best vintage touring derailleur. Any mainstream modern derailleur design traces its roots directly to SunTour. The V series derailleurs had already been in constant development for a decade before the Duopar was introduced. There were several touring ready V derailleurs to choose from as well as long cage Cyclones. The dual parallelogram and 3 pivot derailleurs were all engineering marvels but they also all developed reputations as being unreliable and difficult to adjust. SunTour derailleurs were rugged, well designed, and most importantly they just worked, really well. What they weren't was expensive, and since their cheapness meant they could be spec'ed on bikes that were far from top of the line they weren't exclusive enough to capture the imaginations of snobbish cognoscenti of the time so their brilliance was often overlooked. It took other manufacturers another decade to catch up and to date no real improvements have ever been made on the basic design. The lowly SunTour bits may not have the cache of fancier stuff, but they looked good (in my opinion anyway), were light weight, and functioned just as well in the short term and typically much better in the long run than rarer stuff like the Duopar or hacks like the Record/Rally hybrids.

I'm not trying to insult your choice of derailleur by any means Dirtdrop, just making the case for the most under-appreciated components in the C&V world. You're willing to put up with the crummy operation of the Campagnolo piece when better options are and were readily available and it shows a bias. The Duopar is certainly very cool and I wouldn't kick it out of bed for eating crackers, but I would probably do a long tour on a nice reliable Vx while the Duopar sat on a display shelf at home.

I know that you have an affinity for exclusive and eccentric parts (most of us do) and I'm not trying to sway you, but... If pure whizzbangery is the only goal and fragility is a non issue then the Mountech seems more cleverly over-engineered than the Duopar. If class and exclusivity are the only parameters a long cage Jubilee blows the Campy away. If you've got to have geewhiz engineering and supreme unavailability at the same time the White Industries LMDS is a pure work of art. If consistent function, ease of use and reliability in the field (What to me defines "best") are top priority give me a Vx Gt Luxe, a long cage Cyclone GT, or if the 80s can play a *horrors* 3 pulley design.:thumb:

That's my interjection of mechanical dorkery for the day, now back to regularly scheduled programming...:)

The Duopar was the first DUAL-parallelogram derailleur commercially marketed. At least that was the hype back then. And we all had to have a few. Why a few? See my previous post.

An Eco just closed on Ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/Huret-Eco-Duopar-long-cage-derailleur-touring-rando_W0QQitemZ180322721772QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item180322721772&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A4|65%3A13|39%3A1|240%3A1318) for $122, with 17 bids. No mention of it being NOS, but it looks nice. The pictures are carefully arranged not to show the backside so I wonder if the washer is present.

Somebody mentioned in another post that Japanese collectors are fascinated with French components, and this is driving up the Ebay prices. I guess compared to two grand for an Ideale saddle, this Duopar auction is downright reasonable!



Wow. I'm off to sell mine right now...

[QUOTE=Panthers007;8301870]The Duopar was the first DUAL-parallelogram derailleur commercially marketed. At least that was the hype back then. And we all had to have a few. Why a few? See my previous post.[/QUOTE


I don't think there were any other dual parallelograms. If there was one, I'd think it was an even more obscure Huret.

I find it shifts a lot better than a slanted Rallye, because it shifts right away and doesn't overshift. If I pedal backwards and the cage is not well-aligned with the cog the chain is on, I can get chain jamming, and need to stop and clear it or sometimes a well placed shove with my foot will help. But no breakage.

My limited experience with the debate going on in this thread: :innocent:

1st Generation (slanted) Rally; horrible shifting! I spent about 2 hours trying to finesse this RD to have even mediocre shifting on the bike stand, but no luck. :mad: I can't imagine how it might work on the road. (I know, lousy picture and of course it can't shift w/o a chain, freewheel, crankset, and cables, but it's the only picture that I have of this pita RD.)
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p71/pastorbobnlnh/Super%20Sports/RD.jpg

2nd Generation (non-slanted) Rally; ok shifting, with subtle tweaking of shift lever. Often skips a cog and then I need to back shift.
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p71/pastorbobnlnh/Paramounts/P-13RecordRallyDrivetrain.jpg

Sachs Huret Eco DuoPar; This basic looking beauty functions flawlessly. :thumb: It only took about 10 minutes to have it set up and shift spot on perfectly after yanking off the 1st Gen Rally. I don't believe I've made an adjustment after some 1000 miles or so of riding this summer. I don't find it fragile, but I'm not riding Sporty back in the woods, either. :eek:
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p71/pastorbobnlnh/Super%20Sports/Sporty%20Aug%202008/SachsHuredRD2.jpg

The history of the modern derailleur is complex, and today's popular derailleurs owe a debt to both SunTour and Shimano, and even Simplex.

Back in the late 60s, Shimano licensed Simplex's double spring design for their derailleurs.

Here's Shimano's early "Skylark" derailleur:

http://www.velobase.com/CompImages/RDerailleur/29402D7C-1CF1-44E2-BACB-D37A4AB5A875.jpeg

Compare to Simplex's "Criterium:"

http://www.velobase.com/CompImages/RDerailleur/685336EB-DCDD-4937-BBF8-54EA17B79768.jpeg


Later, they added a dropped parallelogram to allow the top pulley to track the freewheel more closely. This made shifting quicker and more precise. In the 70s, Simplex licensed back Shimano's dropped parallelogram design. Here's Shimano's top of the line "Crane" derailleur from the mid 70s:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3136/2626132517_9e0a085b90.jpg

And here's Simplex's version, from the same era:

http://www.velobase.com/CompImages/RDerailleur/A7BF1777-55A1-4166-B0F0-334E20853AF4.jpeg

At about the same time, SunTour did one better with the dropped parallelogram by slanting it to further improve top pulley tracking, but Shimano had a lock on the double spring design in Japan this feature was not incorporated into SunTour's derailleurs. Here's the popular V-Luxe:

http://www.velobase.com/CompImages/RDerailleur/C78A9858-7598-4A92-A562-1657BDC2DA81.jpeg

SunTour and Shimano continued to develop along parallel tracks until the mid 80s when two things happened: first, SunTour's patent on the slanted parallelogram expired, and Shimano introduced "SIS" indexed shifting, which actually worked! Shimano was quick to incorporate the slant paralellogram into their own derailleurs, as evidenced by the Dura-Ace 7400, the first SIS derailleur on the market in 1985:

http://www.velobase.com/CompImages/RDerailleur/2E0A17CC-1324-48B1-805B-68A13F8FFC3D.jpeg

Alas, SunTour (and a myriad of other companies -- e.g. Huret, Simplex, Maillard, CLB, MAFAC, TDC, Williams, Gian Robert, Zeus, etc.) were unable to compete against the Shimano juggernaut, and went out of business or were swallowed by other companies. Even Campagnolo was circling the drain for several years. But this vacuum did allow for other companies, particularly North American ones, to eventually jump in and fill the void, providing much needed diversity in the bicycle ecosystem.