General Cycling Discussion - Critical Mass...?

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ScottyDocile
04-24-04, 06:19 PM
Do any of you guys ride Critical Mass each month? I try to ride it each month in Pittsburgh. I plan to try Critical Mass back in my hometown Charleston, SC this summer.


lobo
04-24-04, 06:42 PM
Not yet... I'm deep in emotional stress about it... It sounds EXCITING! At the same time (from the reports I've read) it makes automobile drivers hate cyclists even more... Have to wonder what would happen if one of those drivers got ticked off and decided to mow down everyone out road rage.

AndrewP
04-24-04, 07:09 PM
I think it might be fun to do it, but I think it is counterproductive to try and take over the roads for bikes, the way motor traffic seems to try and exclude bikes. Just ride with the motor traffic and be assertive. I find motorists are no more bad mannered when I am on my bike than when I am driving my car.


Poguemahone
04-24-04, 07:26 PM
I don't have much use for it, but then, I don't much like group rides at all, being a solitary cranky old fart. The one in Richmond does not impress me at all-- simply a batch of cyclists blocking traffic, near as I can tell. The "advocacy" CM supposedly represents is unlikely to inspire anyone to get out of their car and start riding; it's more advocacy for the already committed. Preaching to the chior, so to say. Fairly useless, though I confess I probably should ride in one one time before solidifying my cranky old fart opinion.

My cycling advocacy is limited to finding old bikes for people in the neighborhood and friends, fixing them up, and giving them away, often for free. I've had CM riders belittle these actions on this board as impractical; but I'm putting fannies in saddles at minimal costs.

Grampy™
04-24-04, 08:19 PM
I think they should be done sparingly, For a specific reason. I think doing one a month "just because" does more to aleinate the cagers.

Chris L
04-24-04, 11:37 PM
The "advocacy" CM supposedly represents is unlikely to inspire anyone to get out of their car and start riding; it's more advocacy for the already committed. Preaching to the chior, so to say.

I agree. If it's going to be done it needs to be rethought. I saw a suggestion on the bike-qld list years ago that involved using smaller groups of cyclists rather than one big mass. From what I recall, the idea was to take over more streets and, being in a smaller group, show the full advantage that a bicycle has over a car in gridlock by sliding through the traffic unobtrusively. That could work, but critical mass in it's current form seems to be pretty ineffective.

roadfix
04-25-04, 12:40 AM
Do any of you guys ride Critical Mass each month? I try to ride it each month in Pittsburgh. I plan to try Critical Mass back in my hometown Charleston, SC this summer.No, I don't want to participate nor be seen in one of those rides.

meradi
04-25-04, 10:36 AM
[QUOTE=Poguemahone]My cycling advocacy is limited to finding old bikes for people in the neighborhood and friends, fixing them up, and giving them away, often for free. QUOTE]

That's awesome. I fixed up a few and gave them away when I was in Indy. Some people would actually use bikes, if they could afford them.

commuteORdie
04-25-04, 11:02 AM
I try to make it every month (weather permitting). Everyone has there own agenda for showing up. For those that show up for political reasons, than I have to somewhat agree that the event is counterproductive. I however just go to have a good time (nothing wrong with that), and have yet to be let down.

lala
04-25-04, 01:15 PM
i do what i can to get the the cleveland mass. It's pretty mellow. I'm looking forward to this month's ride, as food not bombs is hosting its rustbelt gathering and a number of out of towners will be riding. we may have 100 folks, which is quite large for cleveburg.

redfooj
04-26-04, 10:15 AM
Not yet... I'm deep in emotional stress about it... It sounds EXCITING! At the same time (from the reports I've read) it makes automobile drivers hate cyclists even more... Have to wonder what would happen if one of those drivers got ticked off and decided to mow down everyone out road rage.
oh, it's happened before

http://bicycleaustin.info/cm/


i, too, now try to completely disassociate myself with the people of critical mass

i went on an austin critical mass, once, thinking that it was a friday afternoon group ride.. (naive, i admit).. it was as expected, until we got to the nice Congress Street bridge which was 3 (maybe 4?) lanes wide, 45mph, and the peanut gallery decided to occupy all lanes going at 10mph. this was rush-hour traffic, and it wasn't fugging cool. they did this for another few blocks or so, all the while discussing what new congested road to block. i dropped the hammer and jetted the fugg outta there.

critical mass gives me a bad name

robertsdvd
04-26-04, 11:00 AM
I go in Boston usually... however, I detest when they plow through red lights or stop signs... if the mass enters the intersection and it turns red during - I'm fine with going. However, when they hit the red and keep going - I take issue - and no one ever seems to take notice of me stopping and waiting. I maintain that even if cars were severely limited and bikes were the norm - traffic control would still be necessary.. therefore we should stop and obey these control systems at intersections.

nuovorecord
04-26-04, 02:02 PM
We get Critical Mass rides here in Portland and frankly, I hate them, as do most people. The uniniated (most people) have no idea what the point is. Drivers just see a bunch of inconsiderate people on bicycles slowing down their evening commute for no apparent reason. I have yet to see aproven record of CM being effective at making cycling more accepted or well thought of among the unwashed masses. A local advocacy group, the Bicycle Transportation Alliance, has done far more to promote cycling and build bicycle infrastructure in Portland than CM ever will.

randya
04-26-04, 03:00 PM
We get Critical Mass rides here in Portland and frankly, I hate them, as do most people. The uniniated (most people) have no idea what the point is. Drivers just see a bunch of inconsiderate people on bicycles slowing down their evening commute for no apparent reason. I have yet to see aproven record of CM being effective at making cycling more accepted or well thought of among the unwashed masses. A local advocacy group, the Bicycle Transportation Alliance, has done far more to promote cycling and build bicycle infrastructure in Portland than CM ever will.
Simply one cyclist from Portland's opinion.... :rolleyes:

How do you know most people 'hate critical mass' or that CM wouldn't be more accepted if the police worked to facilitate the rides and maintain public safety instead of treating the participating cyclists like criminals, breaking out their ticket books, pepper spray, tasers and handcuffs the first time a cyclist strays from the bike lane or fails to make a COMPLETE ZERO MPH stop at a stop sign? The BTA is great, but there's plenty of room for other kinds of advocacy, too. The only thing wrong with CM in Portland is that the local paramilitarized police and the politicians and businesspeople giving them orders don't give a rat's ass about bicyclists or the cyclists' civil rights...or maybe it's just that they're so afraid of the power in the simple message of CM that they feel the need to suppress CM because it's too threatening to them and the automobile-based suburban dystopia they represent.

Avalanche325
04-26-04, 04:07 PM
There have been studies done on "advocacy" groups. The findings are almost always the same. Most of the people there don't know what the real adjenda is. The group is usually doing damage to their real cause. The whole purpose of an advocacy group is to bring the general public over to their point of view. Pissing people off is not the way to do that. However, pissing people off appears to be exactly what CM is all about.

If I am in traffic at 40mph and get slowed down to 10mph by cyclists, how in the world is that supposed to convince me that riding is a better form of transportation?


How do you know most people 'hate critical mass' or that CM wouldn't be more accepted if the police worked to facilitate the rides and maintain public safety instead of treating the participating cyclists like criminals, breaking out their ticket books, pepper spray, tasers and handcuffs the first time a cyclist strays from the bike lane or fails to make a COMPLETE ZERO MPH stop at a stop sign? The BTA is great, but there's plenty of room for other kinds of advocacy, too. The only thing wrong with CM in Portland is that the local paramilitarized police and the politicians and businesspeople giving them orders don't give a rat's ass about bicyclists or the cyclists' civil rights..
The right to run stop signs?? The right to run red light?? The right to impede traffic?? The right to violate other peoples rights because they are driving a car?? Exactly what civil rights would you be talking about???
Since when does a group breaking the law make it legal.....or right????

Count me out. Another typical radical group.

randya
04-26-04, 04:58 PM
I'm sure there are plenty of people here on this forum ready and willing to argue both sides of Critical Mass. When the last CM thread here closed late last summer, it was over 17 pages long. No one is forcing you to go on Critical Mass rides. If it's not your thing, you don't have to participate. There are plenty of road races I don't know about, or care about. Road racers impede motorists, and blow stop signs, too, but I don't spend my time complaining on this forum about the damn law-breaking traffic-impeding road racing cyclists. You can type 'til your fingers hurt, but you're not going to convince cyclists who do participate in CM that that it's somehow wrong to do so. :rolleyes:

Guest
04-26-04, 05:05 PM
They are ridiculous. Here in Chicago, they ran around the bike show (let's not forget they paid for a booth to be there) passing out flyers in protest of Subaru because Subaru had their car there as you walk in. Now, since the original sponsors abandoned the bike show, and we almost lost our bike show here in Chicago, Subaru stepped in and decided to sponsor the show. So if they want to put their car there when you first walk in, so what? Besides, if they hadn't of come in with the money, there wouldn't be a bike show for them to protest at. I pointed this out to the girl, who floated away with a rather vacant look after a futile attempt to argue with me.

They also have been advocating that the city depave Lake Shore Drive. When I heard that, I knew these people were nuts.

All I can think is that these people are adults who need real jobs and real lives- advocating civil disobedience to promote your agenda is not the way to go about getting your point across. You'll just p!ss off the people you're trying to make the point to. One day, these people will really grow up and realize that there are better ways of going about getting support for your cause- riling people up is not the way. Luckily, we all here know that.

Koffee

Allister
04-26-04, 05:14 PM
I agree. If it's going to be done it needs to be rethought. I saw a suggestion on the bike-qld list years ago that involved using smaller groups of cyclists rather than one big mass. From what I recall, the idea was to take over more streets and, being in a smaller group, show the full advantage that a bicycle has over a car in gridlock by sliding through the traffic unobtrusively. That could work, but critical mass in it's current form seems to be pretty ineffective.

Heh! I think that was me that made that suggestion - I certainly made one very much like it. As I recall, it didn't get a lot of support.

edit: found it. http://staff.dstc.edu.au/woody/bikeqld-archive/bikeqld-3/0299.html

randya
04-26-04, 05:49 PM
let's not forget they paid for a booth to be there
Critical Mass is a bike ride, not an advocacy group. I find it hard to believe that they actually had a booth at the show.



They also have been advocating that the city depave Lake Shore Drive. When I heard that, I knew these people were nuts.
Again, Critical Mass is a bike ride, not an advocacy group. Portland depaved the west bank of the Willamette River - removed a limited access highway running right past downtown - 'way back in the 70's when Critical Mass wasn't even a gleam in someone's eye. It worked great for Portland, and would probably work great for Chicago, too.

Sounds to me like you're too vested in the automobile-dependent surburban dystopia to tell the forest from the trees, or however that cliche goes.



All I can think is that these people are adults who need real jobs and real lives- advocating civil disobedience to promote your agenda is not the way to go about getting your point across. You'll just p!ss off the people you're trying to make the point to. One day, these people will really grow up and realize that there are better ways of going about getting support for your cause- riling people up is not the way.
This is pretty presumptuous stereotyping on your part which reveals that you know absolutely nothing about the actual people that participate in Critical Mass. Once again, just because it isn't the way you'd go about it, it doesn't mean that other people can't or shouldn't persue this manner of activism. You'd be better off saying nothing if all you can do is disrespect someone else's activism.



Luckily, we all here know that.
Speak for yourself.

Avalanche325
04-26-04, 06:16 PM
There are plenty of road races I don't know about, or care about. Road racers impede motorists, and blow stop signs, too, but I don't spend my time complaining on this forum about the damn law-breaking traffic-impeding road racing cyclists.

Sanctioned road races are mostly on closed or controlled courses. Maybe it is group rides you are talking about? Yes, riders do roll stop signs. I ride in a very large (100+ riders) group that does that. We are, and we understand that we are, BREAKING THE LAW! We have no CIVIL RIGHT to do so, and occcasionally the group, or parts of, gets ticketed. They take their lumps, and don't feel that their "rights" have been violated. We DO NOT intentionally impede traffic, set out to piss anyone off, or badger a driver or event sponsor. Nor are any races or group rides that I have ever heard of held in a metropolitan area during rush hour.


don't give a rat's ass about bicyclists or the cyclists' civil rights...

So, I pose the question again. The right to run stop signs?? The right to run red lights?? The right to impede traffic?? The right to violate other peoples rights because they are driving a car?? The right to harass event sponsors (a new addition to the list)?? Exactly what civil rights would you be talking about???
Since when does a group breaking the law make it legal.....or right????

randya
04-26-04, 06:37 PM
The right to run stop signs?? The right to run red lights?? The right to impede traffic?? The right to violate other peoples rights because they are driving a car?? The right to harass event sponsors (a new addition to the list)?? Exactly what civil rights would you be talking about??? Since when does a group breaking the law make it legal.....or right????

Please reread my previous post. I never said CM cyclists had any legal right to run lights or stop signs. If you go on a Critical Mass ride and knowingly violate traffic laws, you are committing civil disobedience, not exericising any specific legally retained right. However, if you knowingly or unknowingly roll a stop sign or run a traffic signal, which are traffic violations, not felonies, you do have certain legal rights as a citizen. If the police pepper spray, taser and or arrest and hold you for running said light or stop sign, they are violating your civil rights as a citizen. When do you think the last time an average motorist who was stopped by the police for speeding, or rolling a stop sign or running a light got dragged from their car, pepper-sprayed, tasered, handcuffed and taken to the station house? Answer - first of all, they almost never get caught, but when they do, almost never.* They are issued a ticket and allowed to proceed. If the cops scrutinized in minute detail the average motorist's driving behavior the way they scrutinize CM cyclists', and then got all medieval on that motorist for minor traffic infractions, I would say that the motorist's rights had been violated, too.

*Oh yeah, I forgot - this is Portland Oregon, where the police have lately taken to murdering motorists during routine traffic stops simply for the heineous crime of Driving While Black.

Poguemahone
04-26-04, 07:46 PM
Various quotes:

"The BTA is great, but there's plenty of room for other kinds of advocacy, too."

Which implies CM is advocacy. But:

"Again, Critical Mass is a bike ride, not an advocacy group."

Okay, but you can ride your bike without blocking traffic or running lights.

"Road racers impede motorists, and blow stop signs, too,"

Don't like this behaviour from anyone. Also, to point out another group is acting poorly does not excuse the actions of a different group.

"Sounds to me like you're too vested in the automobile-dependent surburban dystopia to tell the forest from the trees, or however that cliche goes."

I doubt Koffee (Koffee can speak for themselves on this), or myself, are particularly invested in whatever the heck that is. I use cycles as transport exclusively; they are not exersize machines or anything else to me. I like the fact they do not pollute, are cheap, don't funnel my dollars to repressive governments, and are much prettier than the average car.

Cm is not "radical". If it were, it would offer solutions. I am sure individual massers do, but not by participating in this ride. If this ride offers no advocacy, it's simply a party, and one that gets it's kick by irritating other folks. Bleah, I've better things to do.

randya
04-26-04, 10:23 PM
I don't pretend to speak for CM everywhere, nor is the CM experience the same everywhere. Perhaps I've already done more to turn people off from attending CM with stories of police brutality at CM in Portland than all the self-righteous anti-CM cyclists could have with their tired and predictable arguments.

To anyone who is the least bit curious, I recommend attending the local CM ride in the capacity of an casual observer and participant with no expectations; don't break the law or do anything illegal if it doesn't feel right to you. The experience may resonate with you or it may not; learn and grow from the experience. You may find that you have no interest or you may find your self coming back the next month. It's that simple. Cyclists from all backgrounds and walks of life participate. You may meet people on the ride that you want to see again or do other things with. Critical Mass is not the boogie man the police and media in some cities want you to think it is, it's simply another kind of bike ride and another aspect of bicycle culture.

Web Resources:
http://criticalmassrides.info/
http://www.critical-mass.org/

seely
04-27-04, 01:08 AM
If gay, Irish, and every other special interest group can block downtown traffic for hours for a few floats I think a few bikes won't hurt anything.

Chris L
04-27-04, 02:11 AM
Heh! I think that was me that made that suggestion - I certainly made one very much like it. As I recall, it didn't get a lot of support.

So it was. The fact that it didn't get a lot of support makes me wonder just what it is that CM is trying to achieve. I don't recall it receiving any negative comments either, so perhaps CM is aimed more at the "protest" side than the advocacy side, otherwise they might be more willing to look at alternative ways of getting their message across.

nuovorecord
04-27-04, 09:52 AM
I'll pose my original question. Where is the evidence that CM's tactics and advocacy efforts have paid off in positive way for bicycling?

Randya: I won't argue with you that Portland's police department has a ton of problems and needs fixing. But, what exactly is the point of a CM ride? To engage with the police? To say CM is a "bike ride" is a bit specious, don't you think? I go out for bike rides with a group, but somehow, we manage to do our ride without traffic stacking up behind us, or getting the police involved. It's my opinion that cyclists obeying the rules of the road and riding in harmony with all the other traffic, makes more of an positive impact, or at least does no damage, than CM's approach.

nuovorecord
04-27-04, 09:56 AM
If gay, Irish, and every other special interest group can block downtown traffic for hours for a few floats I think a few bikes won't hurt anything.

Do CM rides get a parade permit, as most of the groups you mentioned do?

Avalanche325
04-27-04, 02:45 PM
don't break the law or do anything illegal if it doesn't feel right to you.

So if it feels right, go ahead and do it? That is EXACTLY what is wrong with a group, protest, gang, whatever you want to call it, like this.

Look at what is happening right here. You are talking to a bunch of dedicated CYCLISTS about CM, and CM is even pissing cyclists off. If a cycling group cannot even win over serious cyclists, how do you think that you will win over the noncycling public?

The reason that teargas, handcuffs, and tasers are being used is that these "events" are approching a riot state. FAR FAR FAR different from a group ride or a race. FAR different that one motorist running a stopsign. It is also FAR different than a parade, which is a legal event with a permit. Put 200 cars together running stopsigns and blocking traffic and see what happens. Exactly the same thing that happens to CM.

The right to assemble DOES NOT include rights to any of the following: breaking traffic laws, civil disobediance, harassing people, impeding traffic, parading without a license, disturbing the peace, or resisting arrest. An assembly with any of the above is an UNLAWFUL ASSEMBLY and therefore is ILLEGAL.

randya
04-27-04, 03:36 PM
Yadda Yadda Yadda.

Critical Mass is not a law-breaking joy ride, nor do laws necessarily get broken on Critical Mass rides. In some cities Critical Mass is accepted and embraced, in others it is vilified and suppressed.

Originally Critical Mass was simply concieved as a celebration of the bicycle. "ride daily, celebrate monthly", "thanks for waiting", and "honk if you love bicycles" were some of the original CM slogans.

In Portland, the police have a history of suppressing CM with overwhelming force even when the ride is completely law-abiding. You really have to see this to believe it. I personally was completely disinterested in CM until I saw the police violence with my own eyes. My take on this is that the police are actually AFRAID of Critical Mass and the percieved threat CM poses to our dominant entrenched motorized culture, thus they seek to define it as an outlaw activity and suppress it. Please read the following carefully, I cannot overemphasize this enough: THE ONLY RIOTS THAT I HAVE OBSERVED ON CRITICAL MASS RIDES ARE POLICE RIOTS. The police have indeed been successful in reducing the number of participants on CM rides in Portland with stunning displays of police brutality, but many, many former participants have gone on to other bicycle advocacy and activist activities.

Among the many cities in which Critical Mass has been accepted instead of harassed are New York and San Francisco.

Critical Mass happens for two hours a month. "Normal Motor Vehicle Traffic" also includes breaking traffic laws, impeding traffic, disturbing the peace, as well as polluting the air and completely dominating our civic and public spaces. If you think Critical Mass is the less desireable of these two activities, then you've got your priorities all backwards, my friend. ;)

madpogue
04-27-04, 04:02 PM
Police presence at CM rides here has run the gamut. There were times when it was palpably confrontive. Lately it's been mostly benign, sometimes they even block streets for us. Once they sat and did nothing while a motorist attempted to run over a participant.

The most notable was the April 2002 ride, which was also a celebration of Earth Day, a "holiday" born right here in Madison 22 years earlier. Because of the Earth Day connection, it was a well-attended ride. It was, therefore, well-attended by the cops. At one point, they pulled a bunch of people over. They claimed the riders failed to use the far right lane. It just so happened that at the point in question, the TWO right lanes were for right turns only, and the pack was NOT turning right.

It was completely arbitrary (or perhaps quite selective) who was stopped. Most of the group who were not stopped stuck around to see what was going on; many of them were threatened with police action if they didn't "disperse". One such rider started to videotape the police action. The police tried to stop him, claiming that the were afraid he was going to use his camera as a weapon. Yeah, why bother using the stick laying under the tree when you have a $1000 camera to use as a weapon??!!?! Esp. when it contains evidence of the cops' behavior...

IIRC, all the tickets were dismissed, but not before the cops intimidated a lot of riders into thinking they had done something wrong. At the next Pedestrian-Bicycle Commission meeting, several citizens expressed their outrage about taxpayer money being used to intimidate people celebrating a holiday in its very birthplace. It never made the electronic media, but it made the print press, and ever since, the cops' behavior has been remarkably benign.

BTW, the term "Critical Mass" comes from a much more practical, daily practice among cyclists in other parts of the world. In cities like Beijing, where there is much more bicycle presence, but growing competition with motor traffic, cyclists will spontaneously gather at places where they need to occupy a space, and when there are enough of them, simply take the space, slowing or stopping motor traffic in the process if necessary. It's actually a very practical, effective, and essential part of the bicycle commute in such cities.

Allister
04-27-04, 05:04 PM
If you go on a Critical Mass ride and knowingly violate traffic laws, you are committing civil disobedience, not exericising any specific legally retained right.

I've really got no argument with what you're saying. What I've read of the police's actions in Portland really got my bile up.

However, the above statement stood out. I thought that critical mass had no problem with the traffic laws, or at least the ones pertaining to stopping at traffic lights and obeying other traffic signals. I thought the protest was against the car dominant culture. As such, simply riding a bike is sufficient 'civil disobedience' by simply virtue of the fact that it's bucking against that dominant culture. Disobeying laws that they in essence have no real beef with seems a bit pointless at best, but more likely actually works against any goals they may have.

madpogue
04-28-04, 04:06 PM
One argument I've heard is that most traffic laws are skewed in favor of car traffic, so violating them is way of using civil disobedience to make the public aware of that inequity. Similarly, it may have been illegal for black people to sit at lunch counters in some establishments, but doing so was a violation of an unjust law.

randya
04-28-04, 04:35 PM
I think focusing on the fact that a few traffic laws may be violated on a CM ride is basically a red herring, meant to isolate and ostracize CM participants, and make cyclists out to be illegitimate road users. In many locations, including most of this past year's rides in Portland, CM makes it a point to obey all the traffic laws, and the cops and motorists still can't accept the fact that bicycles are legitimate traffic.

Rhetorical question: why are motor vehicle traffic jams acceptable 2X each and every weekday, but a bicycle traffic jam 1X per month is not? The fact is, the 2X per day automobile traffic jam is just as much an intentional coincidence as any CM ride.

Plus, I've seen many CM rides with more police on the ride than bicyclists. Imagine how much safer our roads would be if the police would place the same emphasis and resources on policing motorists as they do into policing Critical Mass rides, by assigning one cop to each motorist on the road. Each motorist's driving would then be scrutinized in excruciating detail and many motorists would probably get a dozen tickets just driving to the local Safeway for groceries... :D

Poguemahone
04-28-04, 05:27 PM
"why are motor vehicle traffic jams acceptable 2X each and every weekday, but a bicycle traffic jam 1X per month is not? The fact is, the 2X per day automobile traffic jam is just as much an intentional coincidence as any CM ride."

This is a good question. I'd say the answer is that cyclists can easily avoid causing a jam, due to the inate superiority of the bike in traffic, so why bother causing one intentionally? It's far more effective to cruise by a bunch of stalled motorists on bike than blocking their progress. Might actually make them think. The key is not to get the cyclists to think, but get the folks subjecting themselves to cars and the resultant traffic to think. Again, the problem with CM is it preaches to the converted.

"Plus, I've seen many CM rides with more police on the ride than bicyclists. Imagine how much safer our roads would be if the police would place the same emphasis and resources on policing motorists as they do into policing Critical Mass rides, by assigning one cop to each motorist on the road. Each motorist's driving would then be scrutinized in excruciating detail and many motorists would probably get a dozen tickets just driving to the local Safeway for groceries... :"

I agree.

lala
04-28-04, 05:31 PM
I believe there should be separate rules of the rode for bicycles and motorized vehicles.


One argument I've heard is that most traffic laws are skewed in favor of car traffic, so violating them is way of using civil disobedience to make the public aware of that inequity. Similarly, it may have been illegal for black people to sit at lunch counters in some establishments, but doing so was a violation of an unjust law.

randya
04-28-04, 05:55 PM
"...the answer is that cyclists can easily avoid causing a jam, due to the inate superiority of the bike in traffic...It's far more effective to cruise by a bunch of stalled motorists on bike than block their progress....
In theory I'd have to agree; however, one of my personal theories as to why drivers dislike bicyclists has nothing at all to do with CM, but rather has to do with the fact that bikes and cars never really match speeds very well when 'sharing the road'. In other words, drivers either see bicyclists passing them when they're stuck in gridlock on a traffic-snarled street, or they see bicyclists as a slow-moving impediment to their speedy progress when traffic is flowing freely. Either way, the motorists aren't happy...



"...the problem with CM is it preaches to the converted.
I can't really disagree too much with this since CM does have a tendency to be a feel-good activity for bicycle activists; however, I will make two important points in response: (1) one of the philosophical underpinnings of CM is to pass out educational information to motorists along the route regarding the impacts of driving, the benefits of bicycling, and why CM is on the road, and (2) a properly executed CM ride can be very empowering to the cyclists participating, since riding in a group like CM offers both the companionship of like-minded individuals and protection from the surrounding motorists, neither of which is necessarily available to the solitary bicycle commuter. On the other hand, a strong police presence definitely detracts from this and has a tendency to result in an Us vs. Them war-like mentality.

Poguemahone
04-28-04, 06:12 PM
"one of my personal theories as to why drivers dislike bicyclists has nothing at all to do with CM, but rather has to do with the fact that bikes and cars never really match speeds very well when 'sharing the road'. In other words, drivers either see bicyclists passing them when they're stuck in gridlock on a traffic-snarled street, or they see bicyclists as a slow-moving impediment to their speedy progress when traffic is flowing freely. Either way, the motorists aren't happy..."

This is, as you state, a personal theory, backed by nothing. You have to remember you're sold on the bike, and based on your prior posts, I don't think your opinion of the auto is terribly high (mine is an auto is a usefull, but way overused, tool). Plus, auto drivers get terribly pissed off at other drivers, too-- perhaps the car is an outlet for agression. I've had drivers stuck in traffic comment on how it really is faster on a bike and make other positive comments. Of course, the last one was from a young girl who just liked my bike. Since the one I was riding is beatiful (Peugeot PKN10E with drilled stronglight chainrings, Campy/mavic wheels, and Simplex retrofriction shifters) I must say she has developed good taste at a very early age. And perhaps she'll think of a bike as transport as she gets older.

The key is to get them to think. Purposely annoying them does not accomplish this.

randya
04-28-04, 06:23 PM
The key is to get them to think. Purposely annoying them does not accomplish this.
No argument from me here. The former is the intent of CM; the latter is not.

Anyway, the motorists are going to think what they want to think (or be told what they should think by some talking head on their TV, or some talk radio wackjob on the AM airwaves), regardless.