"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - Race wheel dilemma (deep aero or climber)

A little bit about me. I'm 5'8" 172 pounds and about 10% body fat. I'm a good time trialist and really good at sprinting but I have been know to get shelled on some longer hills or really short and steep ones. I want to invest in a tubular wheelset and was wondering which direction to go .... a bit heavier aero rim or a lightweight climber rim. Does the aero rim make that much of a difference for breakawys? I am not afraid to fly off the front and attempt this quite often depending on the course layout. I guess what's eating me is that I see guys off the front the entire race on some stages of the tour and their wheelset is nothing close to deepdish aero's? Help me out folks!

How much weight do you stand to save if you go with lighter rims over aero? 100-200g? Take that and compare it to your total weight (rider + clothes + bike + water) and you'll find less than a 1% difference. Your climbing will not improve a noticeable amount from that, but it will if you spend more time climbing.

I'm currently leaning towards putting 30mm rims on my next build instead of 19 even though the wheels will then be too strong for me. I figure for the 130g I'll save, 30mm might help me better. Lucky for me, I have a while to pine it over until I can afford them.

On all but the hilliest courses, aero trumps weight. Look at the wheels Tyler Hamilton used to win the US Pro Championship.

5ft 8, 172, and 10% BF? If true thats bad ass!

5ft 8, 172, and 10% BF? If true thats bad ass!

What's wrong with that? I was there not too long ago!

Aero. Every time. Except on Hill climb TTs. And even on some of those.

What's wrong with that? I was there not too long ago!

Aero. Every time. Except on Hill climb TTs. And even on some of those.

Thats just a stout weight/BF % for being that short.


Oh and go aero... You guys down in LA have no hills worth worrying about

aero trumps weight.

yup

5ft 8, 172, and 10% BF? If true thats bad ass!

Regardless of the composition of those 172lbs, he has about 20 to lose.

from what I understand, the answer is nearly always aero. but dont expect 'em to keep you from getting popped on hills/short climbs.

Regardless of the composition of those 172lbs, he has about 20 to lose.

To be a competitive cyclist.. yep but for just being ripped he would be solid muscle.

Aero bc you can still get aero tubulars less then 1300g and thats pretty light

Aero... like Merlin said, alot of pros use aero rims on mountain stages too. If you look at video from recent pro events you'll see 404 depth rims are common and some even run 808 depth on the rear. I use a 303 404 combo, which is really light (like 1100 - 1200 grams or so). I think that's plenty light for anything.

For your size, I'd go with 808s or 404s at least.

I run 303s on the road. I Run 1080/808 combo on TT. I aspire to be 156 in season.

Thats just a stout weight/BF % for being that short.


Oh and go aero... You guys down in LA have no hills worth worrying about

foolish statement

foolish statement

Louisiana, not Los Angeles

foolish statement

The highest point in Louisiana is Driskill "mountain": 535 feet.

foolish statement

God I love people from CA.

Precious. Absolutely precious.

God I love people from CA.

Precious. Absolutely precious.

and....

foolish statement


and....

The OP is from Lafayette, LA.

LA, being, you know, Louisiana.

The self absorption is mind boggling.

The OP is from Lafayette, LA.

LA, being, you know, Louisiana.

The self absorption is mind boggling.

because i made the mistake of not seeing that the OP is from Lafayette means i am self absorbed...i fail to see the connection...

but while you're at it are there any other faults that i apparently have that you would like to point out cool guy;)?

because i made the mistake of not seeing that the OP is from Lafayette means i am self absorbed...i fail to see the connection...

but while you're at it are there any other faults that i apparently have that you would like to point out cool guy;)?

Sentence structure and capitalization protocol?







Hey, bro, just bustin' your stones.

Oh and go aero... You guys down in LA have no hills worth worrying about
3 mile climb at 8-10% to my apartment...and I don't live at the top. Torrance Beach in the foreground.


http://www.dubbayoo.net/files/pics/places/the_hill.jpg

for ****'s sake... LA without periods is the abbreviation for the state of Louisiana. L.A. is Los Angeles. Do you narcissistic clowns get it now?!

for ****'s sake... LA without periods is the abbreviation for the state of Louisiana. L.A. is Los Angeles. Do you narcissistic clowns get it now?!
You should probably search to see how people actually on BF before you respond in such an ass hat manner. Cold weather must make people mean. I think I'll stay here.

You should probably search to see how people actually on BF

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_palggbK_rS4/SLNxAK5qw8I/AAAAAAAAAzo/0z7j5GJ3vmo/s400/bush-confused.jpg

Aero. I've raced in LA. Both of them.

DEEP carbon rims...40mm +

what's your budget? look at Williams, Souls, Zipps, Reynolds, flash points, edge if you got the big bucks.:D:thumb:

Chad

for ****'s sake... LA without periods is the abbreviation for the state of Louisiana. L.A. is Los Angeles. Do you narcissistic clowns get it now?!

I've always just seen it written "LA", who writes "L.A."? Do people write "N.Y."?

I thought LA = lower Alabama?

shows how much I know.:(

Chad

can't speak for everyone but if I'm referring to the city it's NYC.

can't speak for everyone but if I'm referring to the city it's NYC.

What he said.

What he said.

Must be an east coast/west coast thing. I always see LA and NY. Of course nobody here ever talks about Louisiana so there is no confusion :p

Sorry Dubbayoo, but when I read LA, I checked the OP's location before arguing and posting grades of the Santa Monicas and San Gabriels.

for ****'s sake... LA without periods is the abbreviation for the state of Louisiana. L.A. is Los Angeles. Do you narcissistic clowns get it now?!

:lol::lol::lol:those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones there sparky...settle down ya little anger ball.

:lol::lol::lol:those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones there sparky...settle down ya little anger ball.

how about nobody throws stones?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ORJ_P9waao

Chad

now that's funny...

NY is a state. I grew up there. NYC is a city. almost completely different. LA = State like NY = state.

ta da!

I'm a good time trialist and really good at sprinting but I have been know to get shelled on some longer hills or really short and steep ones. I want to invest in a tubular wheelset and was wondering which direction to go .... a bit heavier aero rim or a lightweight climber rim.

Sorry to interrupt the Second American Civil War, but I thought I'd chime in on the subject of rotational mass. It's true that for constant speeds, 200g extra seatpost weight is the same as 200g extra wheel weight. But when one is accelerating, braking, or maneuvering, an extra gram in the wheels is like double that elsewhere. The deep rims push an even higher proportion of their mass to the outside of the wheel as the rim gets stronger and fewer spokes are used. I'm a big fan of aerodynamics, but that is clearly not the whole picture here. I'd recommend Richard demo a couple of wheel types, one from each end of the spectrum, before shelling out.

Two questions:
Do wheel makers publish moment of inertia numbers for their wheels?
Do people not use a rear disc for TT anymore?

Sorry to interrupt the Second American Civil War, but I thought I'd chime in on the subject of rotational mass. It's true that for constant speeds, 200g extra seatpost weight is the same as 200g extra wheel weight. But when one is accelerating, braking, or maneuvering, an extra gram in the wheels is like double that elsewhere. The deep rims push an even higher proportion of their mass to the outside of the wheel as the rim gets stronger and fewer spokes are used. I'm a big fan of aerodynamics, but that is clearly not the whole picture here. I'd recommend Richard demo a couple of wheel types, one from each end of the spectrum, before shelling out.

Two questions:
Do wheel makers publish moment of inertia numbers for their wheels?
Do people not use a rear disc for TT anymore?

also on the same note that once its spun up it'll take on the "flywheel affect" and keep its momentum much longer than a lighter wheel.

Chad

Sorry to interrupt the Second American Civil War, but I thought I'd chime in on the subject of rotational mass. It's true that for constant speeds, 200g extra seatpost weight is the same as 200g extra wheel weight. But when one is accelerating, braking, or maneuvering, an extra gram in the wheels is like double that elsewhere. The deep rims push an even higher proportion of their mass to the outside of the wheel as the rim gets stronger and fewer spokes are used. I'm a big fan of aerodynamics, but that is clearly not the whole picture here. I'd recommend Richard demo a couple of wheel types, one from each end of the spectrum, before shelling out.

Two questions:
Do wheel makers publish moment of inertia numbers for their wheels?
Do people not use a rear disc for TT anymore?

TRUE TRUE - I have read on numerous occasions that acceleration is greatly effected by wheel mass; esp. towards the outer edge. I'll take your advice - I have a team-mate with a 303/202 setup and I'll try that. Specializing in sprinting and dabbling in breakaways, a lighter, better accelerating wheel has always been in the back of my mind. I've also had trouble with stiff deep aero rims in crits as they tend to skip in hard turns - not allowing any flex. Thanks - note taken!

Manufacturers don't post inertia numbers on their rims, but someone else does:

http://www.rouesartisanales.com/article-15988284.html

http://accel6.mettre-put-idata.over-blog.com/0/02/72/10/Tests-Acheteur/base-de-donnees/inertia_june_08.jpg

Nice find, BD!
Look at those Aerospokes! You'd be working all day to get those up to speed.

Ok, f*k the LA L.A. arument, but the rotational mass impact is BS (or B.S. if you're from one of those places).

I did a brief study (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=384667)on it, and backed up my data with that data from Roues Artisanales. The rotational difference between an Mavic Aksium and a LEW Pro VT-1 comes down to less than 0.2% of your energy in a 4-corner crit with exaggerated acceleration (20mph-30mph each time).

So, while rotational mass is obviously going to add something it's hardly worth considering in a wheel purchase.

Aero wins.

Ok, f*k the LA L.A. arument, but the rotational mass impact is BS (or B.S. if you're from one of those places).

I did a brief study (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=384667)on it, and backed up my data with that data from Roues Artisanales. The rotational difference between an Mavic Aksium and a LEW Pro VT-1 comes down to less than 0.2% of your energy in a 4-corner crit with exaggerated acceleration (20mph-30mph each time).

So, while rotational mass is obviously going to add something it's hardly worth considering in a wheel purchase.

Aero wins.

thank you. rotational mass = red herring.

So we'll put rotational mass up there with cadence and Q-Factor then.

So we'll put rotational mass up there with cadence and Q-Factor then.

HEY, YOU BACK DOWN....Q factor is what it's all about and the sole reason for buying my new bike....;)

I guess LA could also be Lance Armstrong, too. this is getting ridiculous.

So, while rotational mass is obviously going to add something it's hardly worth considering in a wheel purchase.

Aero wins.
Somebody should explain this to the top pro sprinters. Labouring away on those shallow section rims. Imagine how much faster they'd be if they stopped fretting about MI and stepped into the wonderful world of aero.

Somebody should explain this to the top pro sprinters. Labouring away on those shallow section rims. Imagine how much faster they'd be if they stopped fretting about MI and stepped into the wonderful world of aero.

Just a small sampling of TdF sprinters' bikes:

Robbie McEwen
http://www.grahamwatson.com/gw/imagedocs.nsf/images/08tdfSt1/$file/5.jpg

George Hincapie
http://www.grahamwatson.com/gw/imagedocs.nsf/images/08tdfSt3/$file/7.jpg

Robbie Hunter
http://cyclingnews.com/photos/2008/tech/probikes/robbie_hunter_bianchi_928T/Robbie_Hunters_Barloworld_Bianchi_full_view.jpg

Thor Hushovd
http://cyclingnews.com/photos/2008/tech/probikes/thor_hushovd_credit_agricole_look08/th_l5_complete_bike.jpg

Mark Cavendish
http://cyclingnews.com/photos/2008/tech/probikes/mark_cavendish_giant08/Mark_Cavendishs_Giant_TCR_Advanced_SL_Team_full_view3.jpg

OK bdcheung - you got me! 404's on layaway! - However - I don't consider Hincapie a pure sprinter at all!

OK bdcheung - you got me! 404's on layaway! - However - I don't consider Hincapie a pure sprinter at all!

what he said.