Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling - Paris-Brest-Paris in 2011?

Is it too soon to ask this? PBP (http://www.paris-brest-paris.org/EN/)is just over two years away and long-term training should probably begin now.

I noticed a mention of at least one randonneur wanting to attend.

Are you planning to go? Have you been before? If you have been before, what would you do differently? How are you planning to travel to the start? Will you camp or hotel/motel? What kind of bike will you use? Is this a different bike than you've used for other events, including PBP? Is there a particular piece of kit you'll get for this event and why? What kind of training are you planning to do -- for PBP ancien(ne)s and returning hopefuls, how might you improve training?


Any other things you might add.

Maybe we can keep this thread around as a general resource for PBP 2011 aspirants.

So I am in the "Well, if I can do a 100mi in a few months, a 200k later this year, maybe I can see about working the longer events in 2010 and trying to do PBP in 2011, but I won't be heartbroken if I don't manage to do it" state. Last PBP, I was an overweight out-of-shape nerd. I am rapidly becoming a fit and toned nerd. Will I get good fast enough? Dono, but I'm still riding a hybrid with front suspension and slick tires, so.... :D

It depends on how this season goes for me. I aspire to go to PBP 2011 but there are still a lot of details and training that need to be worked out. Wirehead has expressed my current state of mind very well.

Are you planning to go? -- yes.

Have you been before? -- yes, twice.

If you have been before, what would you do differently? -- train more ... train like I did when I went the first time.

How are you planning to travel to the start? -- airplane, then train, then bicycle ... worked for me the last two times.

Will you camp or hotel/motel? -- camp, most likely.

What kind of bike will you use? -- my Marinoni Ciclo unless, God forbid, something horrible happens to him before the ride.

Is this a different bike than you've used for other events, including PBP? -- no.

Is there a particular piece of kit you'll get for this event and why? -- as far as I know, I've got everything.

What kind of training are you planning to do -- for PBP ancien(ne)s and returning hopefuls, how might you improve training? -- OK, this requires a longer answer than I can give right at the moment, but very briefly I'll say ... in 2003, I trained by commuting 13.4 km a day, 5 days a week, adding an extra 20 km loop a couple of those days, and adding an extra 50 km loop on one of those days ... then I rode centuries, double centuries, back-to-back centuries etc. just about every weekend. Oh, and do lots of training on short steep hills. I was in Manitoba in 2003, so I did standing hill repeats on overpasses.

Sadley I'll be passing on the next PBP in 2011 myself due to my wife and I probably having a very small baby and a toddler. When we got into randonneuring we said that we would do PBP together in the future but once our kid/kids are older. That way grandma and grandpa can come with us and we can leave them for the time it takes us to complete and then finish with a holiday in France.
I will do an Ultra that year(1000km) locally and spend much of my time supporting other club members that will be going.

That will also give us lot's of time to save up for our next tandem. As we would love to do PBP in 2015 on a tandem.

Is it too soon to ask this? PBP (http://www.paris-brest-paris.org/EN/)is just over two years away and long-term training should probably begin now.

I would like to try. It seems a very ambitious goal at this point, with ony one 200k notched. But I am trying a series this year, and looking for the ideal frame to build up with PBP in mind.

Rando, what "long term training" are you doing (or do you think you should be) at this point. I am thinking my SR series and prepping for that is a good start for me, for now, but I am very curious what you mean, there.

Also, I think you are right that this should be a sticky.

Are you planning to go? -- Yes.

Have you been before? -- Yes, in 2007.

If you have been before, what would you do differently? -- Maybe arrange for hotels at the controls where I intended to sleep. Spend some time visiting Paris after the ride. Bone up on my francais more than I did in '07.

How are you planning to travel to the start? -- Will probably arrange flight and transfer to SQY with Claus as I did in '07.

Will you camp or hotel/motel? -- Hotel in Versailles would be great. Was in Plaisir in '07 and that was just fantastic.

What kind of bike will you use? -- An '04 Giant TCR Comp 1 worked perfectly for me in '07. Could use the same bike. Or a similar replacement. Or a tandem with Mrs. Octopus or another rider. Or a SS/Fixie. So many options; all of them great fun!

Is this a different bike than you've used for other events, including PBP? -- Could be. I've done brevets and ultras on the tandem and the Giant, but I've wanted to start riding distances fixed or single speed.

Is there a particular piece of kit you'll get for this event and why? -- No, I should have everything I need somewhere around here....

What kind of training are you planning to do -- Brevet series, daily commuting, one or two fast, short rides a week, and random weekend centuries. Will hopefully have done 1200s this year (Gold Rush) and in '10 (the ride on Hokkaido, if it happens, or another if it doesn't) and a 1000 in '10 as well.

Are you planning to go? Yes
Have you been before? Yes, 3 times (1999, 2003, 2007)
If you have been before, what would you do differently? I'll train with more intensity, like I did in 2003 (not with minimal training like 1999, or with more long-distance like 2007)
How are you planning to travel to the start? Fly to Paris
Will you camp or hotel/motel? Hotel in central Paris--the RER is easy to use and convenient, allows much cheaper hotel than St Quentin
What kind of bike will you use? Waterford RS-22, same as last two PBP's
Is this a different bike than you've used for other events, including PBP? Same basic bike, although frame replaced last year.
Is there a particular piece of kit you'll get for this event and why? I have recently added fenders to my bike, as a result of a very rainy PBP and a case of immersion-foot. Two previous dry PBP's erroneously seemed like a trend I could count on.
What kind of training are you planning to do -- for PBP ancien(ne)s and returning hopefuls, how might you improve training? Focus on long distance starting about a year out, adding more intensity gradually as PBP approaches, lots of intensity and climbing during summer with 200k's mixed in. This worked very well in 2003 for me.

I dont think PBP is in my near future, having just completed my first real century and lots of commitments in the future. I suppose if the opportunity presented itself I could mange to train enough and do it. In that case I would use my Jamis Satellite, and I would buy a nice set of panniers, a higher spoke count front wheel and maybe fenders. What is the best method for getting a tandem over there Octopus? I would really like to do a bike trip to gettysburg, ride around the battlefield, camp near the battlefield or on it if possible, and then ride back to school.

In my minds eye, I see a glow, well beyond the dark night's horizon. It is the lights of Paris, way off in the distance. But I must not think of the City of Lights now, she is too far off. If I think of her, I'll realize how far I have to go, and I'll lose the will to continue. I must only think of the next controle, 200km away in Davis. I've got 5 weeks and 2 days to get there. That's all I can allow myself to think of for now.

But in the back of my mind, I know the road eventually leads to Paris...

In my minds eye, I see a glow, well beyond the dark night's horizon. It is the lights of Paris, way off in the distance. But I must not think of the City of Lights now, she is too far off. If I think of her, I'll realize how far I have to go, and I'll lose the will to continue. I must only think of the next controle, 200km away in Davis. I've got 5 weeks and 2 days to get there. That's all I can allow myself to think of for now.

But in the back of my mind, I know the road eventually leads to Paris...

Just follow the line of tail lights, snaking off toward the horizon!:thumb:

I haven't yet decided if I want to go back. It is a grand adventure, but there are a lot of other ideas for experiences that I haven't enjoyed yet. Bike touring through Japan, for instance ... I do feel that the poor weather in 2007 made for an atypical PBP experience, and if I do go back, it would be to see if good weather brings on more of the hospitality and crowd participation upon which PBP legends have been based.

However, to all of the folks that are thinking "... well, I don't know if I'll get in shape in two years", I will say that I went from being a century-a-year, 2500 miles annually sort of guy in 2005, to going into and completing my first brevet series in 2006 and finishing PBP in '07. There, I met other folks who just started riding a bicycle in the fall of '06 who went on to complete PBP the next year. So, if you're looking to make the transition, know that it's quite possible. You don't need a five-year plan.

I think that, to add to randochap's point, I think that the two year window is about the right time for any cyclist to see if PBP is a feasible goal. Start a brevet series this year. See if you can go up to a 600k. If you don't make it to a 600k, figure out what might have blocked you and try again next year. Remember that the rides build on each other, so while a 600k might be initially daunting, your more immediate goal is to ride a 200k which is not much longer than a standard century, and from there ride the rest.

Are you planning to go? Yes!! Yes!! Yes!!
Have you been before? Yes in 2007
If you have been before, what would you do differently? Maybe if the weather is nice I'd like to try without any kind of assistance (last time my boyfriend had put up a tent fo me to sleep in)
How are you planning to travel to the start? By RER... I live in Paris...
Will you camp or hotel/motel? Ah ah ah I'll just stay at home...
What kind of bike will you use? If I'm able to actually make up my mind and get a recumbent before next year, I might try that.
Is this a different bike than you've used for other events, including PBP? Yes, so far I've done 100 km on a trike and it wasn't even mine!
Is there a particular piece of kit you'll get for this event and why? A light and small sleeping bag if I do end up going on my own
What kind of training are you planning to do -- for PBP ancien(ne)s and returning hopefuls, how might you improve training? I think I was in pretty good shape on PBP. Maybe if I can improve my climbing that would help.

I might be going. I was planning on doing it as a kickoff to a year travelling around the world with my wife, but we're going to bring our tandem to Europe and it seems like a lot of extra logistics to get my bike to PBP ad try to work it in. We'll see how are globetrotting plans shake out in the next year, and how my super rando ambitions shake out this year.

If I don't go in 2011, when I am 27 with no kids, I will probbaly not end up going until I have had kids and they are grown up. PBP 2031, here I come! How's that for long term planning?

great thread idea!!

Are you planning to go? F yes!!
Have you been before? nope. although i have been to france & paris, i have not done PBP yet.
If you have been before, what would you do differently?
How are you planning to travel to the start? fly - although i hate flying, a boat would be nice..
Will you camp or hotel/motel? hotel, maybe rent a house for a month or something
What kind of bike will you use? surly pacer, unless i end up with something fancy before 2011.
Is this a different bike than you've used for other events, including PBP? no.
Is there a particular piece of kit you'll get for this event and why? not sure yet.
What kind of training are you planning to do -- for PBP ancien(ne)s and returning hopefuls, how might you improve training? full brevet series in 08/09/10/11, a 1200k (GRR), some local 1000k's, and some interval/power training as well.


Any other things you might add.


do you speak french? non. but i'd like to brush up on it before 2011.

Are you planning to go? Yes
Have you been before? No, tho' I have done one 1000k and one 1200k so far
If you have been before, what would you do differently?
How are you planning to travel to the start? Fly
Will you camp or hotel/motel? Not sure
What kind of bike will you use? recumbent
Is this a different bike than you've used for other events, including PBP? Maybe. I haven't settled on a specific bike yet, but it will be a 'bent.
Is there a particular piece of kit you'll get for this event and why? No. I should have everything I need before that
What kind of training are you planning to do -- for PBP ancien(ne)s and returning hopefuls, how might you improve training? My four-year plan (just going into year 2) is to do at least one Super Rando series and a 1200 (or 1000) k each year thru 2011. Completed my second SR series and first 1200 (Rocky Mtn 1200, a ride I HIGHLY recommend) last year. I'm on the list for the Gold Rush Randonnee for this year, and will most likely do the Cascade 1200 next year. I figure the more 1200s I can do by 2011, the fewer surprises there will be at PBP.

Scott P
Bend, OR
RUSA #3481

Are you planning to go? Yes
Have you been before? Yes
If you have been before, what would you do differently? Be more flexible about when and where to eat/sleep etc. If you feel good - keep going.
How are you planning to travel to the start? Air
Will you camp or hotel/motel? Hotel
What kind of bike will you use? Tandem
Is this a different bike than you've used for other events, including PBP? No
Is there a particular piece of kit you'll get for this event and why? Already got a new bike last year, with couplers, maybe some new tires.
What kind of training are you planning to do -- for PBP ancien(ne)s and returning hopefuls, how might you improve training? SR series 2009/Gold Rush, SR series w/ 1,000k 2010, SR series & 3 hilly/hard 200k in 2011 then off to PBP. Train smarter, not necessarily longer.

do you speak french? non. but i'd like to brush up on it before 2011.



I would strongly encourage this. I knew some French in 2003, and got by on what I knew ... but I knew a lot more French in 2007, and it was great to be able to communicate with the people.

I'd suggest taking a night class or something. I have tapes and books and things, and they're good, but in a class you can talk to other people, and get tips on how to say things from your instructor.

Are you planning to go? yes
Have you been before? yes, once in 2007
If you have been before, what would you do differently? Quite a few things. My lights died because of rain, too flimsy rear rack, get a different bike, use much less time at the controls
How are you planning to travel to the start?Bicycle from hotel quite nearby
Will you camp or hotel/motel? Hotel in Paris and I will again try to only sleep once, in the dorm in Brest.
What kind of bike will you use? Either my Break-away or a new (drool) randotype bicycle
Is this a different bike than you've used for other events, including PBP? Could very well be:)
Is there a particular piece of kit you'll get for this event and why? Topnotch battery lights
What kind of training are you planning to do ? Just a lot of bicycling, maybe the Viking Tour here in Norway a month before PBP

How are you planning to travel to the start? -- airplane, then train, then bicycle ... worked for me the last two times.


I see everyone is answering "air" for this question, and perhaps a bit more detail would be helpful.

For US riders, RUSA has some sort of deal going with a travel company, but if you're not with RUSA (and I'm not), there are at least a couple options for getting over there:

1) Fly right into Paris
2) Fly elsewhere in Europe and travel to Paris by train and/or bicycle

When I looked up flights in both 2003 and 2007, I found that flying into London Heathrow on Air Canada was my least expensive flight option. For a minimal cost you can get a train from London to Dover, take the ferry across to Calais or Dunkerque, and then catch the train to Paris. That route cost me about $500 less than flying directly into Paris.

Now, if you're flying in from Australia, rather than North America, as I may very well be next time ... it will cost an arm and a leg! Brace yourself!! And check around through various airlines.

I see everyone is answering "air" for this question, and perhaps a bit more detail would be helpful.

i'd seriously consider taking a boat over there, but from seattle that's a looong trip! they say a flight from seattle to europe is about the equivalent of a full year's worth of driving (which i don't do) - so i will feel some amount of guilt by flying over there. but it's PBP!! so i'm doing it anyway.

and my hydro-bike's chain is broken, so there goes that idea.. =]
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v200/hunter460/foggy2.jpg

* Are you planning to go? Well, yes.
* Have you been before? PBP no, France yes.
* How are you planning to travel to the start? Most likely by Queen Mary 2 (wife doesn't fly)
* Will you camp or hotel/motel? I hope to ride or train from Evreux where my in-laws live.
* What kind of bike will you use? Custom steel frame Fuso
* Is there a particular piece of kit you'll get for this event and why? Probably a typical 1200k kit
* What kind of training are you planning to do? Completed SR series in 2008, will attempt Gold Rush 1200k this year, and Shenandoah 1200k next year. Along with R-12's each year.

Are you planning to go? God willing, Yes
Have you been before? Nope
If you have been before, what would you do differently?
How are you planning to travel to the start? Fly, maybe RUSA deal
Will you camp or hotel/motel? Not sure
What kind of bike will you use? cross bike turned brevet bike
Is this a different bike than you've used for other events, including PBP? No, I've done a few long distance evernts on it and an very satisfied with it.
Is there a particular piece of kit you'll get for this event and why? Maybe a dynohub wheelset, but I may not have the resources (read as "cash")
What kind of training are you planning to do -- for PBP ancien(ne)s and returning hopefuls, how might you improve training? Complete Super Rando series in 2009 and a 1200k in 2010 (Shenandoah 1200k). There will be lots of bike commuting (20 miles each way) and lots of long distance rides and back to back centuries

I haven't yet decided if I want to go back. It is a grand adventure, but there are a lot of other ideas for experiences that I haven't enjoyed yet. Bike touring through Japan, for instance ... I do feel that the poor weather in 2007 made for an atypical PBP experience, and if I do go back, it would be to see if good weather brings on more of the hospitality and crowd participation upon which PBP legends have been based.

However, to all of the folks that are thinking "... well, I don't know if I'll get in shape in two years", I will say that I went from being a century-a-year, 2500 miles annually sort of guy in 2005, to going into and completing my first brevet series in 2006 and finishing PBP in '07. There, I met other folks who just started riding a bicycle in the fall of '06 who went on to complete PBP the next year. So, if you're looking to make the transition, know that it's quite possible. You don't need a five-year plan.

I think that, to add to randochap's point, I think that the two year window is about the right time for any cyclist to see if PBP is a feasible goal. Start a brevet series this year. See if you can go up to a 600k. If you don't make it to a 600k, figure out what might have blocked you and try again next year. Remember that the rides build on each other, so while a 600k might be initially daunting, your more immediate goal is to ride a 200k which is not much longer than a standard century, and from there ride the rest.

I think there is a very real warning sign in here for people who are intent on doing SRs and big rides every year leading up to PBP, from a point-zero start. The commitment to randonneuring is a major one and while doing events is certainly character-building, there can be a cumulative psychological toll.

There are three seasons to PBP, and there is a real chance of burn-out right when you want to achieve the randonneur's ultimate dream. I'd caution going too far in achieving goals because:

(a) Obviously, physically, there is greater chance of injury and just plain long-term fatigue.

(b) There are emotional penalties involved, that may range from personal relationships with family and friends, through to the fatigue of handling lonely training and event hours on the bike.

I started preparing in early 2002 for PBP-2003. It was sufficient for an absolute neophyte to do what had to be done. It began with a new bike (Fuji Touring), and a 200km ride between Tasmania's cities in January 2002. Then followed various other rides, including a very, very hilly 850km one between Canberra and Melbourne over 4-1/2 days through the Great Dividing Range. Qualifying for us started in December with a 200 and 300 back-to-back, and finished less than two months later! That left around six months of just doing centuries... century after century after century in hilly country.

Since then, I have done that PBP, failed to finish the second in 2007, completed three or four SRs to qualify for PBP and BMB (also DNFed), the Last Chance 1200, the Great Southern 1200, a Randonneur 5000, a Woodrup 5000 (an Australian version of the R5000), two 1000s, a large number of centuries, two Opperman 24 Hour Trials, two 24 hour races, and a fair bit of touring, as well as commuting and so on.

The DNF in PBP-2007 was primarily because I (and Machka) stopped having fun in the wet conditions. We didn't feel any pressure to finish because we had done so in 2003, and our LD records (hers in particular) stand for themselves.

This past year I took time out from randonneuring and other long-distance events because I needed it. I kept my hand in with personal centuries and the like... and built up new bikes. I also needed to assess whether the sport in Australia was heading in the direction it should be, rather than becoming yet another popularist bike club that is rapidly forgetting its long-distance roots.

I'm feeling quite refreshed now, except the second issue with the national organisation remains unresolved and that is inhibiting my participation in formalised events.

Suffice to say, though, that it's likely in 2011, that Hell Yes, I'll Be Back in Paris one way or the other.

If you have been before, what would you do differently? Unsure.

How are you planning to travel to the start? Fly, unless we are in Europe at the time.

Will you camp or hotel/motel? Unsure

What kind of bike will you use? Unsure. Maybe a CF bike or a lightweight steel frame custom built by my old ride partner Tim Stredwick (Velosmith).

Is this a different bike than you've used for other events, including PBP? Yes. Fuji Touring in 2003, Shogun 400 fixed gear conversion in 2007.

Is there a particular piece of kit you'll get for this event and why? Maybe one of the new high-performance LED dyno lights, and maybe a Carradice Nelson Longflap or Camper saddlebag with a Brooks Swallow Ti saddle.

What kind of training are you planning to do ? Unsure. I have to consult with my training and ride partner when she gets here.

Are you planning to go? Definitely. Not really because I think I can do it, but rather because I live in the region anyway so it's easy to go. Have you been before? Nope. How are you planning to travel to the start? High speed train (ICE+TGV). Will you camp or hotel/motel? Most probably hotel. What kind of bike will you use? I have just built up a Salsa Casseroll, I guess that's what I will be using. Is there a particular piece of kit you'll get for this event and why? Nothing I can think of right now. What kind of training are you planning to do -- for PBP ancien(ne)s and returning hopefuls, how might you improve training? Good question, I don't really know but probably centuries and 200ks this year, brevets next year. I will commute 30km a day, including longer loops, starting whenever temperatures get a bit milder. Do you speak French? Yes, native :p

What is the best method for getting a tandem over there Octopus? I would really like to do a bike trip to gettysburg, ride around the battlefield, camp near the battlefield or on it if possible, and then ride back to school.

In the past, the guy who organizes travel for a lot of the RUSA participants, has been able to arrange for free transportation for bikes, including tandems, on his flights. I understand it took some working to get this deal in '07. Some airlines have no charges for bikes, including tandems (I am told that was the case for Air Canada -- friends took their tandem to PBP gratis from Ottawa). If you can't swing a free deal, your opintions are paying beaucoup bucks to get your ride over there and back, but it'd be worth it. You only live once.

Riding around Gettysburg on the S1200 last June, not long after sunrise on a foggy morning, was just spectacular. We rode through Antietam later in the day. First day of that ride is just amazing.

Just on the camping question...

It is likely that camping at St Quentin en Yvelines will be highly restricted. There were problems getting in there for 2007, and the infrastructure was not well maintained compared with 2003 (lack of hot water in at least one toilet block, general rundown condition).

My take on it is that the operators are intent on installing more cabins and dispensing with tent and RV camping altogether. Whether it gets that far by 2010 is another guess, but if camping is your desired option, I'd be looking further afield. I think the nearest alternative was at Rambouillet, with a train connection, but it was still 25km further out than St Quentin.

* Are you planning to go? Isn't everybody?
* Have you been before? Three PBPs completed, starting in 1999.
* If you have been before, what would you do differently? Not sure, possibly ride the 80 hr start this time, perhaps use an interesting bike. Each PBP has been approached differently, otherwise it might get boring. One possibility is to ride PBP Audax in early August, visit some friends in Britain and spend some time in a French gite before doing PBP Randonneur in late August.
* How are you planning to travel to the start? Fly to Paris, of course. After that, plans are too fuzzy that far in the future.
* Will you camp or hotel/motel? Hotels each time so far. Having friends who endured Camp Trenchfoot in 2007 ensures I'll not be camping next time. I've enjoyed experiencing the rising anticipation amongst the various national groups staying in St Quentin beforehand. Staying in Paris would probably mean missing out on chatting with some friends I only meet every four years.
* What kind of bike will you use? Perhaps a tandem, perhaps a recumbent, who knows? I'll might worry about that around Christmas 2010.
* Is this a different bike than you've used for other events, including PBP? Yes, 1999 PBP - S&S custom Frezoni (also 2005 LEL and 2008 GSR), 2003 - 1965 Moulton Stowaway Duomatic, 2007 - Pashley TSR30. I just don't know what the 2011 PBP bike will be yet.
* Is there a particular piece of kit you'll get for this event and why? Apart from some souvenir jerseys? ;) Probably run a modern dynohub with LED headlights. I've finally run out of excuses not to use them.
* What kind of training are you planning to do -- for PBP ancien(ne)s and returning hopefuls, how might you improve training? Perhaps some core strength work. I might go for speed work a bit more, like in '99 but overall, I'm not too concerned about training. Fitness helps but, at the speeds most randonneurs travel at, determination and comfort are more important.
*Any other things you might add. I'll be studying some French over the next couple of years. There are a lot of interesting people at PBP and nearly half of the riders and most of the spectators and supporters prefer to use French.

I'll throw some unsolicited advice for the PBP aspirants out there.... I do hope this thread can be made a sticky -- this is a nice spot to collect all things PBP....

My advice is to meet and ride with as many PBP veterans ("anciens" or "anciennes," using the proper lingo) as you can. The info that'll show up here is a nice start to your journey, but nothing beats talking with folks who have been there and done that about their experiences. Randochap's questions are some nice conversation-starters. Most folks love to talk about their PBP experiences and there are so many different (and equally successful) ways to approach this ride that after a brevet season or two of meeting and talking with folks you'll have made great progress toward understanding what approach(es) are likely to work best for you and your goals and riding style.

There are a lot of issues to deal with on PBP that you don't experience on other 1200Ks. The sheer size of the ride -- 5000+ riders -- is unlike anything else. You may think you have dialed in how to spend your time and controls and when and where and for how long to sleep, but PBP is it's own little world when it comes to these things. If you've got special dietary needs or are just used to having certain foods available to you on the road, how is that going to work for you in France, where vegetarians, those who like Gatorade, and anyone looking for Hammer products or Powerbars might have a real problem? Knowledge is power.

Are you planning to go?At this point yes. Have you been before? NO If you have been before, what would you do differently? How are you planning to travel to the start? Fly, Train Bike looks like a good option Will you camp or hotel/motel? Probably Hotel. It will be my 20th Wedding Anniversery Year and Mrs. BlueJay would like to go back to Paris to see more sights.:love: She has been to Paris before, I have not. What kind of bike will you use? I have been randonneuring on my Jamis Eclipse. I don't know if I will get something else in the mean time or not. Is this a different bike than you've used for other events, including PBP? No Is there a particular piece of kit you'll get for this event and why? Two more pair of PBS Blaze Wool socks. They are a great pair of socks for cool or wet weather, and they are ok in warm weather too. What kind of training are you planning to do -- for PBP ancien(ne)s and returning hopefuls, how might you improve training? Increase my days of riding per year. Keep building on goals. Century a month this year. SR series this year and in 2010, and of course 2011. A 1200 km randonnee, but I am not sure which one or when.;) I am toying with the idea of doing a 1200 plus km unsupported ride of my own from the top of Illinois to the southern tip and back. That would be a good time I believe, and a good test.:innocent:


Any other things you might add. I also need to get a better front light

BlueJay66

2005 Jamis Eclipse
Univega Via Carisma
Fuji Del Rey
Trek 900 Tandem

Well, this seems like a very good start to this thread. Thanks for the input everyone.

Now I'll try to answer some of my own questions -- in no particular order and with notes on why I'm planning that way and why, if different than last time. I hope recording the litany of mistakes I made will be of help to others.

Yes, I do plan to return to PBP, in 2011.

I will fly directly to Paris and get a taxi ... to the the same motel in Plaisir. It's great to be able to share the excitement, planning, tips and pre-PBP rides with a big group -- particularly if you are joined by club affiliation, province, state, country, whatever.

I will not travel to another destination first, as I did in 2007. The week I spent in the UK before travelling by train to Paris via "Chunnel" was disruptive and distracting and though the train trip from London to Gare du Nord was straightforward, the tube/train trip to Plaisir was a nightmare -- dragging luggage and bike bag along. I'd advise getting straight to Paris or suburbs early and settle in. Maybe do some local riding. If you are experienced, maybe a short tour in France. But keep the pre-PBP stress as low as possible and, most importantly if you're flying in from afar, try to get over jet lag!

I'm leaning toward using my new ti Marinoni Sportivo "Randonnée." After all, that's why I had it built last year, to address some of the issues I had with my Ciclo. I want more comfort and secondly, a bit less weight. My Randonnée addresses that with frame material and room for bigger tyres. I have also raised handlebar position by a couple of centimetres.

Unlike many European riders, I like lots of light on the road. I used twin E-6s last time, which were good, but I've adopted the Edelux headlight and plan on building up a lighter, less-drag SON 20R to power it. I need all the help I can get! Most of the rest of my kit will be the same, although I may try to adapt some kind of small handlebar bag -- which is the one big advantage my Bleriot has.

Training: I won't do much different, though my early year training in 2007 was rather disrupted by the neccessity of undergoing cancer surgery. I'll try not to repeat that!

LSD in the winter and then a series, of course. Then hillwork and speed. That's very important. I will, repeat, will do more core work. That and upper body strength -- shoulders/neck. I promise.

I concur with Rowan that you should not try to do multiple ultras beforehand. Most of us aren't Ken Bonners. Personally, I don't have the time and mental fortitude required to do that kind of "training." I do however, believe that getting in a 1,000 at least will prepare for the kind of issues and stresses that seem to begin for most somewhere over 600km.

My French is passable to make my needs known and I was surprised to be complemented on my faltering phrases by French riders and officials; but I will try to improve. It makes the experience so much better. Whatever you do, learn to express gratitude and use you Ps & Qs. A bit of German, Italian, Spanish, Portugese and, as I was to discover, Russian might help as well. Remember this is a truly international event!

Having DNFd at 700k (Carhaix return) in'07, due to severe Shermer's neck, I have good reason to try to get everything right in '11. First time aspirants should keep in mind though that any number of things can go wrong and be as prepared as possible for the unexpected. I had never experienced the weird and disconcerting inability to hold one's head up. It began to feel wrong at just 400km. I think it was due to the combination of the assault my neck had undergone with surgery and the cold, rainy weather -- which in '07 dashed the dreams of record numbers. I will include gear suitable to create a support device in my drop bag, though I had no issues on last year's brevets. It was stunning how many riders succumbed to or suffered through this affliction in '07!

Speaking of drop bags, I will not under any circumstances use the drop bag service I used last time. It was expensive and the proprietor was rude and disorganized. One of my clubmates was made to pay again at the drop-off point because they had lost his paperwork! Arriving at Loudéac (km 449,5) in a driving rainstorm to find my drop bag sitting in the rain and then climbing into clean but soaking change of strip was one of the low points of my ride. PM me for the name of this "service."

As The Octopus has noted in his excellent post, nothing can prepare for the sheer size of this ride -- and that's part of the excitement -- but logistics at controls can be overwhelming if you aren't prepared. We should write more about this. Next time, I will try to move through controls more quickly and probably will try to take care of more of my food -- and "ablution"! -- requirements elsewhere, once my card is swiped and book stamped. I might even rent a motel in Loudéac.

That's all from me for now. Thanks again, everyone. Good stuff! Since it seems to be a bit of a concensus, how can I make this a sticky?

I will not travel to another destination first, as I did in 2007. The week I spent in the UK before travelling by train to Paris via "Chunnel" was disruptive and distracting and though the train trip from London to Gare du Nord was straightforward, the tube/train trip to Plaisir was a nightmare -- dragging luggage and bike bag along. I'd advise getting straight to Paris or suburbs early and settle in. Maybe do some local riding. If you are experienced, maybe a short tour in France. But keep the pre-PBP stress as low as possible and, most importantly if you're flying in from afar, try to get over jet lag!


My recommendation would be to book a minimum of 3 weeks off ... preferably a month or more. After all, if you're going to be in Europe for an event anyway, you might as well see a bit of Europe. Spend a few days getting to Paris in a leisurely way ... relax, see a few sights, recover from the jet lag. Then make your way out to wherever you're going to stay at the start/finish area ... and get there several days in advance so that you can cycle out to Versailles, or wander around Paris, etc. Getting there early also gives you time to pick up anything you've forgotten, or to make last minute adjustments to your bicycle, and so on.

Then after the PBP plan to take a day to recover, and then go enjoy a cycling tour of France or elsewhere in Europe.

This is my 2003 story: http://www.machka.net/pbp/Machka.htm

This is Rowan's and my 2007 story: http://www.machka.net/pbp2007/2007_PBP.htm

If you've got special dietary needs or are just used to having certain foods available to you on the road, how is that going to work for you in France, where vegetarians, those who like Gatorade, and anyone looking for Hammer products or Powerbars might have a real problem? Knowledge is power.


For this, my recommendation would be to get used to eating mashed potatoes, rice, pasta, and croissants on your qualifying brevets. You will be able to get mashed potatoes, rice, pasta, and croissants ... you might not be able to get Hammer products and all the rest.

Fortunately for me, mashed potatoes, rice, pasta, and croissants are among my favorite cycling foods ... I wish all 1200K randonnees would serve them.

Another little point here... the entry fee is quite cheap, but it does NOT include food and beverages. You have to pay for your food at the cafeterias adjacent to the checkpoints along the way.

The prices are very good value. The food is tailored to the needs of long-distance riders. You can spice it up a bit with condiments, but generally it is bland -- the French basically invented the sport, and they do know what's good for you in this regard.

The size of the field also means there are participants of varying skills and confidence. We saw several riders go down just after the start because of the night start, the rain and a swaying of concentration among small packs.

If you do end up riding in a group, be very careful that you don't overcook yourself. I got into a great group of Italians in 2003, and fitted in very well with them for about 50km after the start, but I soon realised that if I kept up their pace, I was going to die. So I said thank you and dropped quietly off the back.

The hills can be constant to the point of being monotonous, but they aren't huge. Hill practice is a good idea if you are a flatlander.

Being self-sufficient is a good idea. In 2003 and 2007 I took a light down sleeping bag in my rack bag, and it repaid itself time and again. I had a bad nose and chest cold in 2003, and I would curl up in the bag under the tables at several cafes to sleep. It's probably not de rigeur to sleep in the cafes, but I made sure I wasnt' a nuisance. IN 2007, we settled down as best we could under a shelter at a train stop, and again the bag was very useful. You just don't know when the need for sleep will overtake your ability to stay on the bike, and you may be miles from a bed.

One of the things I read before 2003 was: "If you can sit, don't stand; if you can lie down, don't sit". It was primarily in regard to lining up at checkpoints. In 2007 before we abandonned, we were quite a way behind the main groups and really didn't have any troubles with lines at checkpoints. But yes, sitting is always a good thing if you can tolerate the butt pain (well, you shouldn't have any butt pain even after 1000km, should you?).

The start is a big event in terms of numbers and logistics. You do spend a LOT of time standing around in the gymnaise waiting to be filtered through for the multiple/staggered starts if you are, say, doing the 10.00am send-off. It is quite feasible that you won't get away until 11.00pm, and you will likely have turned up at 8.00pm. The night can be humid and warm, so take a disposable 2-litre bottle of fluid with you to keep your fluid intake up. HOWEVER, don't overdo it like I did in 2007, because I made seven pitstops in the first 50km!

Make sure you immerse yourself in the atmosphere of the event. One of the reasons why we withdrew in 2007 was that we had determined to make sure a major part of our fun quotient was interaction with the locals who in 2003 had turned out in their thousands along the route. The bad weather in 2007 put a dampener on that well and truly. But make not mistake, irrespective of your country of origin, the French love cyclists and are very friendly.

Oh, and if you try to converse in English and you get a blank look, don't shout what you've just said in ever increasing decibels. You just get to appear ugly and abusive. See if anyone around you can offer some assistance in translation. And simple sign language -- pointing to what you would like, using fingers to indicate numbers can be quite useful. And try to remember "s'il vous plais" (if you please) and "merci beaucoup" (thank you very much) if you don't remember any other French.

Make an effort to abide by the rules. We saw cheating in 2007 with a support vehicle on the route for one rider. We let it go, but I am more inclined to report such incidents in the future. Also clean up after yourself. The rubbish on the roadside in 2007 was quite a disgusting shocker compared with 2003.

Which leads me to... be as polite as you possibly can to the checkpoint and other officials. The vast majority of them are volunteers and they do a marvellous job. There have been reported nasty interactions by participants, especially those who seem to think they need to set a record of some sort and become very demanding.

It might seem odd to discuss these things so far out from the event, but in many cases, the behaviour can be assessed and adjustments made on the other big rides and SR qualifiers leading up to PBP 2011. You also have to be flexible. As pointed out by others, PBP is entirely different from any other randonnee in how it is operated and the volume of participants as both riders and officials.

The more modern iterations of PBP, and indeed randonneuring, have been promoted as being "fast touring" and I like that concept very much because it removes the ultra-competitive element the ex-roadies want to bring with them.

Sadly, this competitiveness is starting to rear its ugly head with reports that the organisers are considering a faster average speed for the qualifying 600 to help limit the number of participants (it seems 5,000 might be their logisitical limit). Already, the idea of lifting the 15km/h average speeds of the 200, 300, 400 and 600 qualifiers has been promulgated quite strongly in some countries. Disappointing really.

Ultimately, though, PBP should be about having fun, and while I know many riders get their kicks from almost destroying themselves, it might pay for some to shift the philosophical targets a bit to seeing and enjoying what's going on around them.

Which leads me to... be as polite as you possibly can to the checkpoint and other officials. The vast majority of them are volunteers and they do a marvellous job. There have been reported nasty interactions by participants, especially those who seem to think they need to set a record of some sort and become very demanding.

Sadly, this competitiveness is starting to rear its ugly head with reports that the organisers are considering a faster average speed for the qualifying 600 to help limit the number of participants (it seems 5,000 might be their logisitical limit). Already, the idea of lifting the 15km/h average speeds of the 200, 300, 400 and 600 qualifiers has been promulgated quite strongly in some countries. Disappointing really.

Thanks for raising these points. If we can encourage "the spirit of randonneuring" here, then maybe we are doing our little bit to preserve the sport.

Yes, there definitely is talk of changing rules on qualification for the reasons you list. Again, officials were disappointed in the number of DNFs:o as they were some years back (1999?). Many riders were not prepared, either physically, mentally or mechanically. The latter point was driven home by the number of riders huddled in the rain-swollen ditches, trying to repair their bikes and the amazing array of expensive equipment scattered along the route. At one point, a group I was speeding along with had to part like a wave as the rack bag from a bike in front became airborn and bounced along the road. A near miss!

I'm amazed that people can have made it through the qualifiers and still be ignorant of the mechanical requirements of a rando bike and its accouterments.

This article by Jan Heine and Melinda Lyon is worth a read. (http://www.paris-brest-paris.org/EN/index.php?showpage=22)

2007 was an exceptional year in terms of weather conditions. Those sorts of weather conditions do cause a decrease in concentration on even the simplest of tasks, such as ensuring a rack bag is adequately attached.

To judge the quality of the field based on DNF for that year alone would be dangerous and lead to unjustified "elitising" of the sport.

At least those who had the opportunity to experience such difficulties or "disasters" might learn how to cope with them next time. If they had been otherwise excluded from the qualification process, they would never have had the opportunity to find out.

More great advice showing up here. Thanks, everyone, for all the excellent thoughts!

One thing to be thinking about now, for those already thinking about their training now, is which start time will you chose. If '11 is like '07, you'll have 3 choices: if you want to ride in 80h or less, you get to depart around 8pm; the 90 hour group goes in waves of 500 starting around 9 or 10pm; the 84-hour group leaves the next morning at 5am. "Specials" -- all you folks on 'bents and tandems and trikes and whatever that weird push-me-pull-you thing was -- get to go 15 minutes ahead of each of these three groups. The 90h group is by far the largest, and as has been noted, you can be standing around for hours waiting for your launch time. Both the 80-hour and 84-hour groups go all in one wave.

The 80-hour group is for those wanting to ride competatively and for those with confidence to finish in that time who just want to get out ahead of the masses so they won't be in lines at the controls. 90 hours is the maximum time, hence the popularity. 84 hours gets you a smaller group, some sleep before you start, and clear controls for at least part of the ride. It's also possible with the 84-hour start to do the ride entirely in daylight if you're quick about it, which means lots of rest, civilized evening meals, and being able to ride with a battery light without worrying about recharging.

I went with the 84h start in '07 and would do that again. The goal of an all-daylight ride was uh, "washed out" pretty quickly, but I still had minimal night riding which means I got to actually "see" a lot of France. Taking an alterntaive start time also frees up a 90-hour slot for someone who really needs it. Think of it as a deposit in the karma bank.

The point about group riding bears emphasizing, and a prepared PBP aspirant would add some pack riding into their training. Even our little 84-hour group was bunched up good for hours and there was one terrible wreck early on, where a guy a few riders back of me apparently hit a curb at well over 40kph. Ouch. The roads are narrow, there are traffic circles (roundabouts), and especially in the 50k nearest the start there are a lot of cobbled streets. Riding in a huge group of strangers can be intimidating (and dangerous), so make sure that you're as comfortable as you can be in that situation: for your own sake and those around you, work on some pack riding skills. Either that, or drop off the back of the group.

It should go without saying to be polite and appreciative of everyone you meet along the way, but I'll add to my "amen" to Rowan's excellent advice on that subject. Us Americans, especially, have a hard-earned negative and, sadly, accurate reputation when traveling abroad. Loud and oblivious doesn't play well beyond the shores, fellow Yanks, so please let's leave the 'tude at home.

A couple of ideas for how to reduce the competitiveness if the fastest riders at PBP:

1) The obvious, make no recognition whatsoever for the fastest.

2) Move the opening times for controles back enough that people doing sub-50 hour rides will end up arriving at controles before they are open and have to wait. This would also apply to the finish. So those who are competing to be first would all arrive at the finish and have to wait for it to open, and all would get the same time. Now there would be no official "fastest". From what I've read, there are probably fewer than 50 riders that are competing to be first. If they decide they don't like having a minimum time limit and decide not to ride any more, PBP would lose less than 1% of their riders. I suspect they probably turn away more than that many due to limiting the field size, so the net effect would simply be to get rid of the ones that are causing the worst of the problems. And those fast riders who do chose to stay would have less incentive for unsportsmanlike conduct. Maybe they'd start acting more like randonneurs and less like racers.

If we can encourage "the spirit of randonneuring" here, then maybe we are doing our little bit to preserve the sport.

Yes, there definitely is talk of changing rules on qualification for the reasons you list. Again, officials were disappointed in the number of DNFs:o as they were some years back (1999?). Many riders were not prepared, either physically, mentally or mechanically.

I'm amazed that people can have made it through the qualifiers and still be ignorant of the mechanical requirements of a rando bike and its accouterments.


2007 was an exceptional year in terms of weather conditions.

To judge the quality of the field based on DNF for that year alone would be dangerous and lead to unjustified "elitising" of the sport.


I also think that the rise in popularity of randonneuring has contributed to the number of DNF's. I think when we, who have done several 1200Ks, talk about them, we tend to talk more about the good times out there and may make it sound like the rides are an exciting walk in the park. So more people want to get involved ... but when they get out there, they discover that 1200Ks are not easy, and that they require a lot of planning, preparation, persistence, etc. There is never any guarantee that any of us will finish a 1200K.

My personal recommendation to those who have never done a 1200K before would be to do a 1000K or 1200K this coming year or next year so that when you get to the PBP you have some idea what you're getting into.

Oh, and if you try to converse in English and you get a blank look, don't shout what you've just said in ever increasing decibels. You just get to appear ugly and abusive. See if anyone around you can offer some assistance in translation. And simple sign language -- pointing to what you would like, using fingers to indicate numbers can be quite useful. And try to remember "s'il vous plais" (if you please) and "merci beaucoup" (thank you very much) if you don't remember any other French.


BTW, when indicative you want two of something, don't show the back of your hand with the index and middle fingers extended (like a peace sign, only the back of the hand showing). In some parts of France (and England), this is the equivalent of just having the middle finger extended. It doesn't seem to be true in all parts of France, my wife is from Grenoble and had never heard of it. But I had some friends in college who spent a summer backpacking around France and said they got some very offended looks when they asked for two croissants that way before they realized what the problem was. I suspect it's mainly in northern France.

One explanation I've heard is that during the Hundred Years War, England's biggest military strength was their longbowmen (look up the battles of Agincourt and Crecy). If the French captured a longbowman, they'd cut off his index and middle fingers, to make sure he could never shoot a bow again. So on the battlefield, the English longbowmen would hold up those two fingers towards the French as a gesture of defiance. I don't klnow if this story is true (I've never seen a period reference to confirm it), but it would explain why this seems to be a regional thing, since the English were mainly in the north of France.

Anyway, if you want two of something, extend your forefinger and thumb. That's how the French indicate two. Or at least that's how they do it where my wife is from, there are lots of regional differences in France, much more than in the US. But I doubt you'll offend anyone with a forefinger and thumb.

And I can confirm from experience that even speaking a little French goes a long way. I'm lousy at learning languages, so my French is pretty limited, but I've been to France several times to visit my wife's parents. I speak enough French to at least make a good attempt at asking questions, and even though it becomes obvious very quickly that my French isn't very good, I've always found the French to be very helpful at making communications work. Either they'll switch to English, or if they don't know English, we've been able to use gestures and my little bit of French to figure things out. Even just starting out with "Bonjour, Parlez-vous Anglais?" (Hello, do you speak English?) is much better than just starting out speaking English. I've yet to experience the "rude French" stereotype. But I've seen a few "Ugly Americans".

I There is never any guarantee that any of us will finish a 1200K.

My personal recommendation to those who have never done a 1200K before would be to do a 1000K or 1200K this coming year or next year so that when you get to the PBP you have some idea what you're getting into.

Yes. The other thing to consider -- from the "distance versus character" perspective -- is the kind of rides one does in preparation. Some go out and do relatively easy brevets to qualify and then the PBP course is a rude awakening. As others have said, the hills aren't the biggest or the steepest in the world ... but the effect is cumulative -- over 30,000 feet of cumulative.

It has been said, for instance, that our Vancouver Island brevets closely match the character of the French countryside between Paris and Brest and are the prefect training routes with constant steep rollers. I'd agree (and not just because I am the VI route coordinator!) We put on our most difficult routes in the spring before PBP and for the true penitant and riders wanting to qualify early, we have Hell Week.

And I can confirm from experience that even speaking a little French goes a long way. I'm lousy at learning languages, so my French is pretty limited, but I've been to France several times to visit my wife's parents. I speak enough French to at least make a good attempt at asking questions, and even though it becomes obvious very quickly that my French isn't very good, I've always found the French to be very helpful at making communications work. Either they'll switch to English, or if they don't know English, we've been able to use gestures and my little bit of French to figure things out. Even just starting out with "Bonjour, Parlez-vous Anglais?" (Hello, do you speak English?) is much better than just starting out speaking English. I've yet to experience the "rude French" stereotype. But I've seen a few "Ugly Americans".

+1

I usually start a conversation with "Bonjour, Parlez-vous Anglais?" If they don't, that's fine, we'll continue in French, if they do, we'll converse in English. But a few times, in train stations or at campgrounds or wherever, I ended up talking in French, because I wanted to practice my French, and the ticket agent or whoever would talk in English because he or she wanted to practice his or her English. :D It was kind of funny ... but it worked.

I've also found the French to be very helpful at making communications work ... if I put a little bit of effort in, they'll go out of their way to be helpful. I've had very good experiences in France ... I love it there, and want to go back. :)

Best thread ever...If they don't sticky it, just bump it every day for the next 3 years.

+1

I've also found the French to be very helpful at making communications work ... if I put a little bit of effort in, they'll go out of their way to be helpful. I've had very good experiences in France ... I love it there, and want to go back. :)

I think that's why most want to return; the French people! The amazing experience of meeting people who understand why someone would want to do such a thing and respect you for it. Not to mention the tolerance of the majority of drivers.

Though crowds were less in 2007, due to weather, it was amazing to arrive at the top of a will-crushing, quad-thrashing climb at midnight, to find a family, who had left their village to stand huddled under their umbrellas, crying "bon courage!"

On edit: Take small souvenirs -- pins from your city/country work well -- to thank them.

Some go out and do relatively easy brevets to qualify and then the PBP course is a rude awakening.

We had one particular randonneur here in Alberta who went out of his way to find the easiest brevets so he could qualify for the PBP. He contacted me to ask about my Red Deer Brevet series, and when I told him that I had created routes with lots of hills, he wasn't interested anymore. I tried to tell him that he needed to ride hills, and that he needed to ride all sorts of different types of roads, and in all types of weather conditions ... but he wouldn't listen. He liked to ride on perfect roads and in perfect conditions, and somehow had gotten the idea in his head that the PBP was a lovely ride through the countryside on wide smooth roads with shoulders and no traffic, with no wind, the sun shining brightly, and the birds singing in the trees.

He tried the 2007 PBP, DNF'd, and I don't believe he is randonneuring at all anymore. He was completely and utterly unprepared for hills, cobblestone, narrow shoulder-less road, lots of traffic, crowds, rain, wind etc. etc.

If '11 is like '07, you'll have 3 choices: if you want to ride in 80h or less, you get to depart around 8pm; the 90 hour group goes in waves of 500 starting around 9 or 10pm; the 84-hour group leaves the next morning at 5am. "Specials" -- all you folks on 'bents and tandems and trikes and whatever that weird push-me-pull-you thing was -- get to go 15 minutes ahead of each of these three groups. The 90h group is by far the largest, and as has been noted, you can be standing around for hours waiting for your launch time. Both the 80-hour and 84-hour groups go all in one wave.


A couple of corrections:
* There is no velo speciale start for the 80 hr group, only 84 and 90 hr starts.
* The 80 hr start was in two waves in both 2003 and 2007, previously one wave. The 84 start has always been in one wave so far.

...it seems 5,000 might be their logisitical limit...


While logistics were stretched, this isn't the limiting factor. The 5000 limit is imposed by the regional authorities that issue the permits for the event.

I'm planning on 2011!

I think there's plenty of time to train if you're motivated. I did my first 200K in Jan. 2007 (and the same could be said for the 300-600Ks over the next few months). Heck, I didn't start riding recreationally until July of 2005, starting w/ 25-mile rides. Eight months after that first 200K I finished the 2007 PBP within the time limits.

I'm seriously hoping for better weather in 2011, though.

Thought I'd just bump this with a link to BC Randonneurs PBP pages (http://www.randonneurs.bc.ca/pbp/main.html). Lots of juicy tidbits there.

I am curious about rules specific to PBP, vs. RUSA events. For example, I read that aero bars are not allowed on PBP. Is this true? Do they allow only drop bars, or can you use something else, like trekking bars? And are there other important rule differences?

Is there a site to read all the rules for PBP? (In English) Thanks.