Touring - Dear Amy...

There's an interesting letter (http://www.chicagotribune.com/features/columnists/advice/chi-ask-amy-0129jan29,0,1773142.column) on the 'Dear Amy' page today... about a worried mother who's fretting over her daughter's plans to cycle Europe.

Maybe we should all write Amy with an alternative reply! I've cut and pasted the text here...

Dear Amy: My daughter is 18 years old and I can't figure out how to stop her from putting her life and health in danger next year.

After her high school graduation, she wants to bicycle and camp by herself around Eastern and Western Europe for several months.

She says this is a long-held dream of hers and she has no interest in attending college until she has made this trip.

She is adamant about traveling alone and that keeps me terrified.

She refuses to make any changes to her travel plans to accommodate my concern. Though she is training daily for the physical rigors of the trip, if she travels by herself she will have no one to help her if she becomes ill or injured, or if she is robbed or her bicycle is damaged.

She refuses to consider traveling with a group or joining a guided bicycle tour. She says she will use money she has saved and make the trip on her own—even if I do not agree to it.

She doesn't appear to care how much this trip would frighten me. I don't know what to do.



—Worried Mother

Dear Worried: I assume you have urged your daughter to consider taking this trip through the United States, where at least language wouldn't be a barrier.

I agree that her plan isn't safe. Unfortunately, you have pointed this out to her and she lacks the sense (or is rebelling) to the extent that she won't listen. Now you should back off, not offer any financial support for her trip, and hope that she will either come to her senses or her plans will fall apart or be truncated.

Given the current economic climate, your daughter should be thinking about life beyond her bicycle trip. You should encourage her to envision where she will be in a year's time—and try to mentor her toward some longer-term goals.

Young adults sometimes make risky choices, and once a child is older than 18, beyond offering wise counsel a parent's only options are to worry—and hope for the best.

beyond offering wise counsel a parent's only options are to worry—and hope for the best.
Or rejoice in their daughter living and not working her way into the safeties of suburbia.

Kid's 18? Mom needs to realize she's an adult and cand do whatever she pleases.


(I've been lurking in the Touring section for a while. I'm 23 and want to do a similar trip to what this girl is doing, though when I finally graduate. Kind of a long, well needed vacation. Thinking of either Europe or doing the States/Canada. Leaning towards the later, and still a few years off.)

Yes, it's dangerous. Yes, it might be poorly planned. Yes, it might not be going towards a standard Amerikkan career. And yes, it might be the greatest adventure of her life.

It blows my mind that so many parents refuse to simply support their kids in whatever they decide to do. How can they think that they know what's better for their kids than their kids do?

Is it such a shocking concept that an 18 year old is a human being, with their own ideas, dreams, concepts, opinions, and plans?

Email written and sent.

Weasel9, I don't think it's a matter of the mom not supporting her daughter going on a cycling trip in Europe, but rather it's a matter of the trip's plan doesn't consist of any supporting factors/members. Basically, the plan seems to be assuming that all is well and smooth. The mother pointed it out to her daughter that things may go wrong, somewhere, somehow. She would just like her daughter to have some kind of safety net included in her planning when sh17 happens.

I quote: "She is adamant about traveling alone and that keeps me terrified.

She refuses to make any changes to her travel plans to accommodate my concern. Though she is training daily for the physical rigors of the trip, if she travels by herself she will have no one to help her if she becomes ill or injured, or if she is robbed or her bicycle is damaged.

She refuses to consider traveling with a group or joining a guided bicycle tour. She says she will use money she has saved and make the trip on her own—even if I do not agree to it."

People backpack through Europe all the time at that age. I think because the fact that this is on a bicycle is what's freaking the mother out. People get wide-eyed with amazement when I tell them I'd commute seven miles to work on my bike. The idea that one would ride around a continent on two wheels could easily seem like insanity to some folks. It's a shame that we live in such a fear-based culture that a mother would get in the way of her child's dream.

Furthermore, the idea that she will be all alone with no one to help her is ridiculous. There's a whole continent full of people over there, certainly someone can lend a helping hand if necessary. They also have police and hospitals. Need more of a safety net? Travel insurance and a phone card so she can call her folks if things go awry. It's not like she's going to the remote corners of Siberia. It's Europe. They've got phones galore.

I loved the part where the mom says that traveling in the US would be safer.

Bah! Language has nothing to do with safety---evil speaks every language. But, I think I'm preaching to the choir.

Only if the girl talked about in the article knew we were all rooting for her.
Also, this user in this thread (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=234168&highlight=fears) was also facing the family members trying to talk him out of the travels.

Seemingly recalcitrant teenagers, as with curmudgeons, are that way to make it easier on loved ones when they leave. Yes, the girl could end up a sex slave in Turkey - or not! After 18, the (US) law lets the child assume the risk for herself. Bonne chance!

Weasel9, I don't think it's a matter of the mom not supporting her daughter going on a cycling trip in Europe, but rather it's a matter of the trip's plan doesn't consist of any supporting factors/members. Basically, the plan seems to be assuming that all is well and smooth. The mother pointed it out to her daughter that things may go wrong, somewhere, somehow. She would just like her daughter to have some kind of safety net included in her planning when sh17 happens.

I quote: "She is adamant about traveling alone and that keeps me terrified.

She refuses to make any changes to her travel plans to accommodate my concern. Though she is training daily for the physical rigors of the trip, if she travels by herself she will have no one to help her if she becomes ill or injured, or if she is robbed or her bicycle is damaged.

She refuses to consider traveling with a group or joining a guided bicycle tour. She says she will use money she has saved and make the trip on her own—even if I do not agree to it."

Right, I see what you're saying. The article just got me on a thought of how many of my friends' parents never supported their dreams. It's been a long-standing sliver in my mind.

What I'm really upset about was "Amy"s response. In my email to "Amy," I said all of this in a much much gentler way. I told her than instead of suggesting that Worried Mother withdraw support from her child, to support her in the ways that she can. Perhaps her daughter doesn't want to change her plans, or ride with a group, but maybe she'll allow her mom to buy her an international cell phone, traveler's insurance, mace(in what countries would allow it. Maybe none), a couple maps, money to stay in nicer hostels, offer to buy a plane ticket home if something goes wrong, anything. Amy's response was based in apathy and an attempt to control her daughter. I just suggested she support her daughter in a different way.

I mean, Western Europe has been considered safer to travel in than the states for a long time. The only thing that makes it dangerous is our own lack of knowledge of differences in customs and culture.

Am I only one who would also be concerned? Out of interest, which of you who have replied are parents (of a teenage girl at that)? I think Chatbox's post is very good at pointing out some of the things that aren't immediately obvious. Sure it's OK to be all gung-ho about saying she should be going and trivializing the dangers, but we're not her mother, we have no idea what her daughter is like and so I'm guessing no idea what it's like to be in her mother's position!

I do agree that if she wants to go, she's of legal age to make up her own mind, and that generally speaking Europe is fairly safe. And it's unlikely she'll find trouble unless she isn't mature enough for that kind of trip or is completely lacking in street smarts.

My advice would be if she's determined to go, her mother should realize -as painful as it might be to a parent -that she can't stop her if she has the finances and time to do so. The next step has to be supporting her daughter, but hopefully in ways that will reduce the probabilities of something bad happening to her and to help allay the mother's fears. First and foremost I'd think cycling with someone who is trustworthy and mature would be the easiest way to increase the safety factor. I wonder why her daughter is so determined not to cycle with someone? I'd want to investigate that first and see if there is a way to compromize and make her daughter agreeable to that. Secondly, another simple piece of safety equipment might be to purchase her a phone that works in Europe, or provide her with money for that specific purpose. Thirdly, her mother does need to go through some of the "obvious" and "common sense" things we may take for granted, and that we might forget an 18 year old might not consider or have thought about.... What if she is robbed? How is she going to get money? (e.g. keep photocopies of important documents, etc) What if her bike does break down? Can she repair a flat (seriously!!). Finally, it would be nice if her daughter could regularly contact her mother to confirm she's safe to reduce her concern.

As a parent, I just don't think it's as simple as hallelejah, she's breaking the chains of American suburbia, good for her, etc.... There's more to it than just that, and more to consider.

I have to say I whole heartedly agree with you on that. In fact if anything, at a huge generalization level, I'd say travelling in the USA can be more dangerous than most parts of Europe! (and not that most parts of the States aren't safe when I say that either). What a very strange blinkered perspective to have!


I loved the part where the mom says that traveling in the US would be safer.

Bah! Language has nothing to do with safety---evil speaks every language. But, I think I'm preaching to the choir.

sounds like the adventure of a lifetime to me, i'd get her a weapon or two to carry on the trip : / being a young female. other than that, you gotta live a little, you know?

sounds like the adventure of a lifetime to me, i'd get her a weapon or two to carry on the trip : / being a young female. other than that, you gotta live a little, you know

What kind of weapon would you recommend?

I have two daughters and would be concerned if one of them had the same plan. Not because of break-downs or accidents (they can happen anywhere), but because I am sure she'll meet people, and most likely seek the company of people her own age at some point. Guys are known to take advantage of women. Someone, of little character, would/could see an opportunity in a young woman from the States when it's learned that she's traveling alone. You could go from **** and robbery to murder. It's not that big a leap.

Amy's reply should have been more in the line of Nigeyy's reasoning. That woman gives advice? Really? Then again, it's sad when a person has to write a columnist to get advice. Very sad. That whole scenario makes me wonder.

Am I only one who would also be concerned? Out of interest, which of you who have replied are parents (of a teenage girl at that)?
I would worry. That is what parents do, but I would also be proud of her. My daughter went to Senior Week at the beach when she was 17 and I worried. She went away to college at 17 and I worried. At 19 she lived out of town for an internship and traveled to other cities for conferences, and I worried. At 21 she traveled in Europe and I worried.

So yes I would be worried, but no I wouldn't have stopped her or tried to. I also didn't lay my worries on her, but kept them mostly to myself. I limited it to giving some advice and asking her to remember to use the good judgment that I know her to possess.

Either we raised her well or she gained good judgment on her own. I like to think a lot of her independence and good judgment comes from having a supportive, but not overly sheltering family.

Going to the beach for Senior Week probably worried me more than a bike tour would have.

As far as parents worrying, it never ends. I am 57 and my Mom still worries when I go on a tour.

I went on my trip the fall after highschool was out and I was two months from turning 18. My dad wrote a note giving his permission. I was on my own for two months.

Unless this girl is a complete misanthrope she will naturally start gathering with other people who are traveling in a similar direction and mode. It simply happens. It's more likely to happen in Europe than in the US.

I understand completely the mothers concern. It's nerve wracking and conjures up more fears than a freshman college student getting accosted on a US campus, which is also a significant risk. There's a book written by a woman who survived a heinous attack that killed her friend who decided to venture out on a bicyle trip with a buddy. I forget the title, I think it involved bikes but if the mother has that book in mind she's probably hysterical with nightmares. My nephew had a trip to Europe all planned for the month after 9/11. His mom was hysterical that he shouldn't go and asked me to convince him to wait. I said it would be a great time to go. It's a very hard time for a parent.

I'm guessing the daughter is using this issue to set her own terms to break the apron strings and can't afford to be concerned about her mothers worries anymore,,she can't do anything about those worries and her mother wants the daughter to do x, y, z to allay them. Oh well.

My $.02 to the girl is to gather information about cycling hostels and organizations, de-emphasize her insistance to traveling solo, present her mom with a schedule of contact times and GO. This issue isn't going to end over a trip to Europe or her first year in college.

I have two daughters and would be concerned if one of them had the same plan. Not because of break-downs or accidents (they can happen anywhere), but because I am sure she'll meet people, and most likely seek the company of people her own age at some point. Guys are known to take advantage of women. Someone, of little character, would/could see an opportunity in a young woman from the States when it's learned that she's traveling alone. You could go from **** and robbery to murder. It's not that big a leap.

Amy's reply should have been more in the line of Nigeyy's reasoning. That woman gives advice? Really? Then again, it's sad when a person has to write a columnist to get advice. Very sad. That whole scenario makes me wonder.

same here, two daughters 20 and 22. Meeting people, having new experience and taking care of oneself in the process is the entire point. I think you're more likely to see self-reinforcing risky behaviour in a dorm of 18yr olds living away from home for the first time than you'd see on the road at hostels and campgrounds. I agree a girl traveling solo is a huge concern, older women do not prey on young men with bad intent as is the reverse. That said I experienced enough come-ons from older gay men that I dealt with civilly but with some fear in one instance.
Anyway what I meant to respond to was your description of the great unknown filled with men of bad intent which fit a college campus.

Of course Mom should worry; that's her job.

And of course it's dangerous; but it's not that dangerous. Daughter is doubtless doing other dangerous things, such as driving in cars with other teenagers, crossing streets as a pedestrian, perhaps even eating cheeseburgers:eek:; if Mom has gotten used to these dangers, she should be able to handle the bike tour thang.

The best thing Mom can do to get over the worry and, perhaps to get Daughter's respect and cooperation, would be to suggest they do a tour together, closer to home, so Mom can see first-hand what it's all about. Bicycling looks more dangerous to car drivers than it does to bicyclists.

Ironically, I too would advise Daughter to change her plan a bit, just because Europe, from what I've seen of it (mostly Germany, and nothing east of Vienna), is not such a great place for the specific trip she has described. There are so many youth hostels that there is little or no need for camping, and the towns are so close together that there is little need to be in fabulous physical condition.

Or rejoice in their daughter living and not working her way into the safeties of suburbia.

+1

Holy crap. This young lady sounds like one tough cookie.

I wouldn't characterize her plan as "not safe". It is an adventure, meaning that she can't plan her way out of all the things that might go wrong. If I were mom I'd work with her on the planning to minimize the things that can go wrong, but I would rejoice at having a daughter who was courageous enough to follow her dream.

Speedo

What kind of weapon would you recommend?

well, seeing as she will be going across seas, a gun is out of the question of course, but a flair gun, or even a pellet gun may not be a bad idea. you can get those without a license and usually find them in a sporting goods store. pepper spray of course.

not being drastic, just honest. I'll be taking a gun with me on tour, something small, and i hope i never have to use it, or even threaten with it. but i'd like to know it's there

oh, and always carry an easy access "stick" whatever that means to you

Yeah, I agree the poor girl's plans are kind of half baked and might lead to trouble. But what 18 year old has plans that aren't half baked? She should really have a traveling companion and stay away from drinking alcohol. Mom, if she's smart, shoots for that and lets her go.

Here's the part of Amy's advice that floors me....
--------------------------------------------quote---------------------------------------------------------------

Given the current economic climate, your daughter should be thinking about life beyond her bicycle trip. You should encourage her to envision where she will be in a year's time—and try to mentor her toward some longer-term goals.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oh, yeah, 18 is the right time in a person's life to grow up and let the worries of adulthood crush them. The "current economic climate" ? Don't worry, the recession will still be here waiting when she gets back. Fear shouldn't make choices for people.
.

well, seeing as she will be going across seas, a gun is out of the question of course, but a flair gun, or even a pellet gun may not be a bad idea. you can get those without a license and usually find them in a sporting goods store. pepper spray of course.

not being drastic, just honest. I'll be taking a gun with me on tour, something small, and i hope i never have to use it, or even threaten with it. but i'd like to know it's there

If you took a small gun and duct taped it inside the rear triangle , and packed the bike in a bike box, when they x-ray it, it would just look like part of the frame.

As the father of a 19-year old girl, I'd worry. But I'd deal with that by
1) knowing I've done a good job raising her
2) knowing she's not stupid
3) helping her plan the trip
The solo part is worrysome, but I've toured solo and understand the attraction. Most likely I'd try to talk her into having a partner.

Gotta agree with Amy on the financial part - her dime, not mine. That's not a matter of control, that just part of growing up.

The daughter says she is saving her own money for the trip. All the more power to her.
I'd be worried too, if it was my daughter, but very very proud of her.

I mean, Western Europe has been considered safer to travel in than the states for a long time. The only thing that makes it dangerous is our own lack of knowledge of differences in customs and culture.

??? :twitchy: Like what??

As for telephone and asking for help: 8 out of 10 8yr olds has got theyr own cell phone where I live, so just ask anybody to borrow one.

The idea that the US is safer than Europe is ridiculous. There could be issues traveling
alone in any place. I think she'll be ok, but a sensible answer to the mother's letter would
have encouraged the daughter's trip and maybe suggested that she share it with a friend.

you guy's are watching to much tv,gun's weapons,she's not going to war ,she's going on a bike tour to the most cultured and beautyful part of our planet,of course her mother is going to worry,that's what us parent's do ,and we do it well.this young woman will be fine ,im sure she's not stupit to get herself into any bother,her mother should be very proud and brave for her daughter ,she will do just fine.

The only thing I can think of is there are a lot of Muslims in the big cities in Europe, especially in the suburbs of places like Paris and Amsterdam. They probably would not look too kindly on an infidel woman cycling alone, head and arms and legs uncovered. These areas are not hard to avoid if you know about them, or she could make sure she is adequately covered up.

I would be pretty scared too, but if one avoids the obvious pitfalls, (big cities, Turkey and Albania, much of eastern Europe) I think she should have a great time. It would be a very good idea to hook up wih some other kids for at least part of the trip. Up here in Norway I do not think I have ever heard of bike tourers who have had bad experiences with us locals. Camp sites and Youth hostels all over western Europe are great places to stay and she probably will meet other cyclists there to team up with.

Having her seen by Muslims in European cities is NOT an issue. Having head and arms and legs uncovered is NOT an issue either. I can't help but feel that your comment is uninformed and has prejudices.

The only thing I can think of is there are a lot of Muslims in the big cities in Europe, especially in the suburbs of places like Paris and Amsterdam. They probably would not look too kindly on an infidel woman cycling alone, head and arms and legs uncovered. These areas are not hard to avoid if you know about them, or she could make sure she is adequately covered up.

Let's keep this serious

It's common for British kids to take a "gap year" before they start University and travel the world. They go everywhere.

A huge percentage have the time of their life. A very tiny percentage get robbed, raped or killed; "Students in peril during gap year adventure" seems to be a common headline in the British papers. Though the headlines are scary, I have always assumed that a similar percentage of them would meet awful fates just walking and/or driving the streets of their cities.

So, why do bad things happen to good kids? It comes down to intelligence, resourcefulness, judgment, and luck.

I don't think most American parents have a perspective on how common it is for youth of this age to travel. I don't think "Amy" does either.

(I'm a parent; my 19-year-old is currently on a winter camping adventure with 2 friends; night time temperatures around 10F. I always worry about my kids' adventures, but very happy they are exploring life. We'll find out tomorrow night how good his preparation for the trip was...)

Besides the point that she is 18, It doesn't sound like the mother has much confidence in her daughters ability to recognise dangerous situations and her ability to avoid them. Bad things can happen to anyone at any time and in any place. I it this is commendable that this girl wants to do this trip and if sucessful, she will have to confidence to do any other adventurous thing she wants. If only the danger is embraced she will undoubtedly be like so many other people that never get beyond there own fear and as a result spend alot of time wishing when it is no longer possible to go back and take that oppertunity. I hitch hikes across the country by myself when I was in my late teens and eventhough I'm sure my parents worried about me but supported my decision which in the end made me very proud of them for facing a fear of there own and me facing my fear of the unknown. I'd say go for it, use your head but go for it.

Just my two cents.

If you took a small gun and duct taped it inside the rear triangle , and packed the bike in a bike box, when they x-ray it, it would just look like part of the frame.

Fast way to get your trip ended for you.

I too would be worried. But from reading many of your tour blogs, I dobut she will be alone for the whole trip. She will meet others on tour. As most of you seasoned tourers can attest, there is always some kind stranger ( stranger.. a friend you have not met yet ) to help when you truley need it.

I too would be worried. But from reading many of your tour blogs, I dobut she will be alone for the whole trip. She will meet others on tour. As most of you seasoned tourers can attest, there is always some kind stranger ( stranger.. a friend you have not met yet ) to help when you truley need it.


Stranger danger!:lol:

The only thing I can think of is there are a lot of Muslims in the big cities in Europe, especially in the suburbs of places like Paris and Amsterdam. They probably would not look too kindly on an infidel woman cycling alone, head and arms and legs uncovered. These areas are not hard to avoid if you know about them, or she could make sure she is adequately covered up.

:roflmao2: :roflmao: :roflmao2: :roflmao:

Either you've never been to Paris ... or you're talking tongue-in-cheek.



Having her seen by Muslims in European cities is NOT an issue. Having head and arms and legs uncovered is NOT an issue either. I can't help but feel that your comment is uninformed and has prejudices.

If he's serious .... +1


Let's keep this serious

+1

well, seeing as she will be going across seas, a gun is out of the question of course, but a flair gun, or even a pellet gun may not be a bad idea. you can get those without a license and usually find them in a sporting goods store. pepper spray of course.

not being drastic, just honest. I'll be taking a gun with me on tour, something small, and i hope i never have to use it, or even threaten with it. but i'd like to know it's there

Airlines don't like people carrying guns or anything remotely like guns ... and many other countries don't like people carrying guns.

I would NOT recommend bringing or carrying a gun ... very bad idea.

She'd be much smarter to find a friend to ride with. I do a lot of long rides (century and up), about 5000 miles a year, and I always try to ride with a friend. There are just too many things that can go wrong, and having someone to help is invaluable. To me, her unwillingness to even consider this is all the sign that is needed to conclude that she is not mature enough to do this trip.

Unless this girl is a complete misanthrope she will naturally start gathering with other people who are traveling in a similar direction and mode. It simply happens. It's more likely to happen in Europe than in the US.

My $.02 to the girl is to gather information about cycling hostels and organizations, de-emphasize her insistance to traveling solo, present her mom with a schedule of contact times and GO. This issue isn't going to end over a trip to Europe or her first year in college.

+100!

The hostels I've been in in Europe (and Australia) are great ... they are also good places to meet other travellers, and they often host organized tours where they'll take a bus-load of people staying at the hostel out to see the sights in the area. Hostels also often provide internet access so she can email her parents and friends as she goes along.

I've got a life-time membership with Hostelling International:
http://www.hihostels.com/

The only thing I can think of is there are a lot of Muslims in the big cities in Europe, especially in the suburbs of places like Paris and Amsterdam. They probably would not look too kindly on an infidel woman cycling alone, head and arms and legs uncovered. These areas are not hard to avoid if you know about them, or she could make sure she is adequately covered up.

Oh man...

The only thing I can think of is there are a lot of Muslims in the big cities in Europe, especially in the suburbs of places like Paris and Amsterdam. They probably would not look too kindly on an infidel woman cycling alone, head and arms and legs uncovered. These areas are not hard to avoid if you know about them, or she could make sure she is adequately covered up.

You've got some learning to do my friend. Sheesh. The most hospitable people that my wife met on her travels through Europe were in Turkey. Men. Muslim men. I guess she should have just feared what she didn't know, after all, they might have just chopped her to bits for having her forearms exposed, those savages!


On topic: Mum should be worried, but needs to get over it. The only way that her daughter will learn the judgment to keep her out of trouble and make friends is to use it. On a trip like this she will rarely be alone anyhoo (it's freakin' Europe!). A international cell phone (that's turned off most of the time to avoid panicked "checking in" calls from mum) would probably do a world of good for mum's peace of mind and daughter's safety. A gun? I dunno, I think most of the research indicates that having a gun significantly increases your chances of getting shot - either by your own gun or the one that the assailant is now wielding because you've whipped out yours.

There's something pretty irritating about how you can keep in touch with home so easily now. I think that a lot of travelers miss out on engaging with the place they're in because they're spending their time searching out internet cafe's and writing updates on their travelogues and e-mailing the folks back home.

Oh man...

I was trying to think of the cultural differences between the USA and Europe, the kind that could lead to trouble. I remember riding through some of those suburbs in those two cities, and feeling like an oddity, being stared at and not in a friendly way. I imagine it would be worse for a woman especially a younger one.

I still think her trip is a good idea and she should use reasonable caution. Hostels are a great idea as Machka has mentioned. In the Netherlands , Vrienden op de Fiets is a wonderful organization, basically home stays with other cyclists in which you pay a small fee.

Well, I wrote to Amy as a mom and a fellow bike tourist. I also sent her this link (http://familyonbikes.org/blog/?p=129) to a post I wrote in my blog. Maybe, just maybe, she´ll realize that she gave very bad advice.

The only thing I can think of is there are a lot of Muslims in the big cities in Europe, especially in the suburbs of places like Paris and Amsterdam. They probably would not look too kindly on an infidel woman cycling alone, head and arms and legs uncovered. These areas are not hard to avoid if you know about them, or she could make sure she is adequately covered up.

I've been a bikeforums member for almost 6 years and I'm sorry to say willibrord that that's the dumbest, most uninformed and insulting comment I've read to date. Thankfully I guess bikeforums doesn't have too much blatant ignorance, but your comment certainly is based on ignorance. Your comment has absolutely no basis whatsoever in fact and if you felt uncomfortable in certain parts of Paris or whatever city, it was simply that you strayed into a particular part of town that was pretty rough. If I were to cycle into some parts of New York or Chicago or even Dublin I might feel a little threatened. It's would have nothing to do with the religion of the people in that area.

Seriously willibrord, educate yourself a little and lose the prejudice. What you said would be the same as me saying "The only thing I can think of is there are a lot of black people in the big cities in the US, especially in places like New York and Chicago. These people are really poor and would probably rob you or shoot if you cycled through areas where they live. These areas are not hard to avoid if you know about them, or she could make sure she wears a bullet-proof vest."

Do you see how unacceptable that is?? What you said is equally unacceptable and ignorant.

Re the original purpose of this post I must say that IMO this "Amy" lady gives pretty bad advice to "worried mother". Europe is one of the safest places in the world to cycle tour in and is certainly as safe, if not safer, than the US. One of the reasons is that cycle touring is more common in Europe. Re language difficulties "Amy" should realise that most continental Europeans speak excellent English (together obviously with their native tongue and ofter a couple of other languages) and even in countries like France where general fluency in English is not as good as places like Germany, most people still have basic English.

It is an ironic thing about human development that one of the signs that kids are mature enough to go out on their own is that they start to realize that their parents might have something useful to say.

??? :twitchy: Like what??

It's actually really difficult to know where to start...

Things like what one does when there is an emergency, 911 isn't global. Not knowing the language. Being unfamiliar with people from another culture, they might do or say something that is considered rude in America, but is nothing less than friendly in their country. Knowing whether or not it's normal to be invited into someone's house to stay the night. In translation, hints of malice and a dangerous person can be lost. Same can be said for a very safe, friendly person. Thinking that because using date **** drugs are outlawed in the states, they're outlawed everywhere.

...to name just a few of the thousands of cultural differences between ours and another culture that could be dangerous if we didn't know or figure them out as we went along. Traveling to other countries being ignorant of their culture is a particular habit of Americans.

I think willibrord demonstrated this rather well with his statement. Though I don't know if he's an American.