Winter Cycling - Looking for advice on winter biking outer layer - shower's pass event rain jacket?

So here's my story -

I recently bought a decked out winter commuter bike (I already road bike regularly during the summer).

I've been asking around about what the best clothing for winter biking would be, and lots of people who actually do winter commuting have suggested a windproof shell (at least windproof in the front) and a base layer (smart wool, capiline, etc).

A guy at my local bike shop highly recommended the Endura eVent Rain Jacket (eVent is this waterproof and windproof material that supposedly breathes twice as much as goretex). The thing is - it's $300 for the jacket, and $250 for the pants.

I can afford it, but it's hard to justify spending that kind of money on winter commuting clothing when I'm not sure if I'll have the tenacity to do that much winter commuting/riding (my bike also doubles as a summer cruiser or summer commuter, in case I don't follow through). I figured I could probably justify it if I could also use the rain gear in the summer for non-biking stuff (plus I go to the boundary waters, and very nice rain is is always a big plus).

I didn't think the Endura was the best choice, because it was so pricey, and it only comes in black (not my favorite for commuting) or light blue (kind of...girly). More importantly, it doesn't have a hood, so it would make a pretty poor general purpose rain jacket for non-bike stuff.

People on this forum highly recommended eVent rain gear from Showers Pass whenever it was mentioned, so I thought I'd take a look at that. All their rain jackets have the ability to attach a hood. Their Elite road rain coat looked alright - I didn't like black (to dark for commuting) or bright yellow (to bright for non-cycling wear), but they have a chili pepper color (subdued red) which looked alright. In doing research though, I started to think that the long tail and curved up front might look rather odd off the bike, as would the reflective stripes on the side (I get it guys, seriously - the rain jacket is made by showers pass, could you make it any louder on the jacket?). After further research, I was also informed that the giant vent across the back of the jacket which is very useful in the warmer summer doesn't seal up - so it probably wouldn't make a very good winter jacket.

However, new for this year they're offering a new "Mountain Bike Rain Jacket" (their pdf catalog is here, if you're interested - http://www.showerspass.com/catalog/Fall2008.pdf ) and I was pretty excited. It looked pretty cool - I liked the chili pepper red + black design, so I likely wouldn't feel akward wearing it off the bike. It didn't have the back vent which is both a plus and minus (if it had it but it had a zipper that would be cool). It didn't have "pit zips" on the arm pits, but it had zips on the front of the jacket for cooling which is different, but might work well. The bottom of the jacket is more even. And it's designed to be worn with a backpack with small more-durable patches on the jacket where the jacket rubs against the pack. I was like "wow, that's pretty cool!".

So I called them up to order it, thinking I was buying a 95% eVent jacket, and was informed (by the nice lady on the other end who seemed to genuinely want me to know as much about the jacket as possible) that the sleeves aren't made of eVent, they're made of some other "waterproof, breathable" material for mountain bike crash / durability reasons. So the entirety of the arms (the black part of the jacket if you look at the pics) is non-eVent material, and only the red part in the middle is eVent stuff. The nice woman informed me that the more durable stuff was still waterproof and breathable, but obviously if it was as good as eVent the entire jacket would be made out of it. Now I'd be paying $270 (including hood) for a jacket that's 50% eVent fabric, 50% something else.

So - what do you think? Is having only the center of the rain jacket made of eVent (more breathable) material good enough? Would my arms get clammy? Am I wrong about the open back vent on the road jacket being a bad idea for winter? Am I way overspending on a piece of winter bike gear, and should go with another better alternative?

I'd love to hear thoughts from people with more experience winter biking than myself!

I use a Showers Pass "Century". Which they don't make anymore. This is my second winter using it. And it is probably the most valuable piece of clothing I wear. Underneath that I wear a SportHill Traveller jacket. Which is a Cross-country Ski jacket. Those combined work down to -12. Because that's the coldest I've worn them in. That along with a long sleeved thick cotton shirt. But I was surprised at how protected I was. I even got a little overheated. So I just unzipped the Traveller a little bit to cool off.
The thing about the Showers Pass is its totally windproof along with being waterproof. And I use it all year round. Great in the Spring and Fall as an outer shell. And in the summer as my rainjacket if I feel I need it. Usually then, I just go without. This past Fall I noticed the DWR wearing out. Which happens to all waterproof fabrics. So I treated it with some NikWax, which brought it back. I'd suggest either the Double Century or the Elite 2.0. I want something with as much ventilation as I could get. Especially pit zips. With the Traveller I wear, I don't even feel any cold air that might come up thru the back vent. I wear mine off the bike as well, the dropped tail doesn't bother me. If I had to get another one. I'd go with those two. Or the one from J&G Cyclewear (but that only comes in yellow.) That's my two cents on it. Good luck.

scoatw (http://www.bikeforums.net/member.php?u=99453) - thanks!Anyone else?

I'm extremely fond of my Taiga jacket. It's much better made then the ShowersPass Elite 2.0 that I had.

Prices in Canadian dollars.
https://www.taigaworks.ca/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=162

Hi Paul,
I'd just say don't pass on the pit zips and reconsider the bright yellow. I agree with scoatw that the tail looks ok -just wear it proudly and think of yourself as an advocate for bicycling.

I've been commuting/living car-less in Sacramento since about 2004 and find use for a breathable, ventilated rain jacket roughly October through March. In Jan '07 I replaced my saffron-colored bike-specific jacket with a sort of caramel-colored walk-around type that still has the pit-zips but doesn't breathe quite as well (both are REI brand). Recently though, a registered nurse friend scared the hell out of me with ER stories. So I spent a week or two researching and, last Friday, ordered the Showers Pass Elite 2.0.

I decided I had to have the high-visibility yellow for dawn and dusk, and the price seemed fair for a chance to try eVent (if you haven't seen this link yet, it's what sold me: http://www.verber.com/mark/outdoors/gear/breathability.pdf). The better it breathes, the more happily you'll use it in the spring rains, and the rest of the year -even on your road bike.

Some day someone should make a reversible rain jacket for bicycling -bright outside, subdued inside.
cheers,
Mike

If you get the Showers Pass jacket, I'll bet you will find it very breathable. It has to be because eVent is the original form of expanded (porous) polytetrafluroethylene (EPTFE)membrane invented by Robert Gore, first as a chemical substance (patented in 1976) and then as a thin laminate suitable for rainwear (patented in 1980 as a liquid-water proof, but water-vapor-passing textile suitable for rainwear, which Gore eponymously named Gore-Tex ).

When GTX first appeared, it revolutionized the sportswear industry. Unfortunately its supreme breathability when new was marred by a tendency to get clogged by sweat oils and dirt fairly quickly, and it was subject to tearing with active stress. So Gore and Associates came up with a progressive scheme of polyurethane coatings to address these problems, but the cost was reduced breathability. Since there was no competition, and because high-end outdoorwear was supposed to have some durability, given the prices that were being charged, some loss of breathability was tolerated.

When the patents expired, other companies like General Electric started playing in the lab making their own Gore-Tex (sans the brand name) to see if they could capture some of the rainwear market, much in the same way as generic drugs supplant original branded drugs. Some people speculate that eVent may be original uncoated GRX, or perhaps silicone or wax or micro-fine PU-treated GTX, nobody knows because GE calls its finishing treatment "proprietary", which in tech circles is code for it isn't novel enough to earn a patent, so other companies could use the same or similar treatment if they could discover what it is. That's what proprietary means, "We can't patent it, so we have to keep our formula secret to prevent copycatters from making our stuff."

Could eVent actually be plain-jane original Gore-Tex, with "proprietary" being a spoof? GE wanted the Army to do tests on eVent against other wateproof/breathables, thinking as a major military contractor that another multibillion contract, in outerwear, would be a great "steal" from Gore and Associates. The lab, WOW! found that eVent was virtually identical in vapor permeability to plain ePTFE, i.e. Gore's original invention.

If you are old enough to have used original GTX, you know how amazing it was. GE has brought that old GTX back, with at most a tiny twist. Whether Gore will "go back to the future" to compete remains to be seen. I don't think they will because they stake their name on quality. When you see "Gore-Tex" you get garment manufacturers' lifetime warrantees, Gore complete satisfaction guarantees, and if you shop at places like REI, Backcountry.com and LL Bean, you get these retaillers no-questions-asked love-it-or-return-it guarantees. That's a minimum of two, and sometimes three level consumer protection. Gore requires certain specs to be met, such as seam-taping, so if a garment says Gore-Tex, it is waterproof. If tiny amounts of rain seep into a seam, even if you can live with it, that's a returnable defect.

I dig the Gore company. I like their full-customer-satisfaction ethos. I love true innovation, rather than post-patent-expiration bandwagon hopping. I respect the fact that Gore consistently wins Top 100 Companies to Work For, by policies such as encouraging workers to select their own managers and the projects they work on. This attracts talent, it spurs creativity, and it shuts the door on old-industry managerial power-tripping: if a manager were to drive away subordinates, he would be canned, not they.

I like the fact that the Gores, despite working in Delaware, are westerners. Wilbur Gore died (at an advanced age) hiking the Wind River Range. They allow their customers to use other competing fabrics (rumors dispelled here, it would be illegal for them to do otherwise), and many do, but very few of them drop Gore, for their premier lines.

One notable exception is Schoeller C-Change, used by Mammut and Cloudveil as a revolutionary GTX replacement. This Swiss laminate has a remarkable pore structure that contracts when cold and expands when warm, to retain heat when the air is frigid and breathe more freely when it's cool to warm. It is claimed to be the most breathable waterproof material when warm, and is co-used with nanospheres to repel dirt and oils, "inspired by nature" aka "biomimickry" a hot new tech field. You have to drop some serious coin, but some Mammut Extreme Jannu jackets are on sale in black and certain sizes. Otherwise, if it really is as good as advertised, you should see more US manufacturers using it over the next few years.

Of course biking is always a late adopter. Mass-produced cheap carbon fiber should be as available in bike frames as it is in fishing rods, but fishing jumped on carbon fiber 20 years before biking, and it evolved from premium specialty product to mass commodity. Tennis went for it in the 70s. Actually golf adopted carbon fiber the same time as biking. I got some cool velcro-closure Vittorias 20 years ago, and they were top-end, as affordable-class shoes still had laces. But I got the very first model of velcro track shoes (Puma) in 1970. Mesh got to running shoes in the 70s. Not to cycling shoes for a decade later.

Today, you see adjustable-turn buckle and turn-knob-cable closures on top-end cycling shoes. Uhm, try ski boots 1970s. Look intro'd the first clipless pedal in 1983. But they had been making step-in/quick-release safety ski bindings since 1961, and the first were invented by Marker in 53. Disc brakes 2001. Try motorcycles 1987. Sports cars 1950.

When the world's co-top-ranked maker of state-of-the-art bike drive-train components main business is fishing gear, what does that tell you?

Lycra was intro'd in womens bathing suits in 1960. Didn't get to bikewear til the 70s.

So, I'm betting on Schoeller C-Change getting into some high-end cycling jackets sometime around 2018.

I'm in my 6th decade. (Nooo!) What's comfortable for me is a lot different than when I was young. and thus from most people here. I don't generate the watts, and I got to hold onto what I make. I ride a fair amount, for the Midwest, 70-120 mi in winter outdoor + trainer, 180-250 in summer. But biking's not my identity, cuz I like it, but I don't *love* it. When I lived in San Diego, I *loved* surfing. On epic days I could stay out until my legs jelloed, but next day, I was up at 530 to hit it again. Next day, same thing. On small days, I stayed out long hours waiting for once-every-30-minutes set.

When I lived in Oregon, I loved skiing, doing mid-week afterwork runs at Mt. Ashland, then later, midweek after-dinner Hood Meadows. Every weekend the fam went to Bachelor or Hood. When big storms rolled in, and I could wangle some days off, I loved road trips to Big White and Grand Targhee. Nothing beats skiing the trees in pow that flows over your thighs and waste. It's like slo-mo water, and it's almost silent.

Cycling just doesn't do the same thing for me. It's a matter of liking it, to stay in some semblance of shape, a lot more enjoyable than doing weights or churning laps in a pool.

I bring this up, because from surfing, I've tried a wetsuit in very cold conditions. Why not? Neoprene is designed to block massive heatflows that liquid cold water is supreme at conducting. It's wet, but warm in sub-Z conditions.

From winter mountain sports I like my ArcTer Polartec softshell (mine was made in BC!), which in royal blue, is stylin anywhere. My blue and black MHW Gore-Windstopper fleece jack works really nice. My red Marmot GTX-Pro Exum shell is good for any conditions 30s or below, wet or dry,with variable layering and its classy off the bike. AND, I got these on sale. It's a lot easier to find great alpinewear on promo and overstock than high-end winter bikewear, because there's a lot more of it out there.

I wear colors I think look good on me. I don't need hi-viz yellow to be seen by cars—why look like a clone if you don't have to?—cuz my Dinotte 400L taillight wakes drivers up and they go around me long before they see the guys in banana skins

That Showers Pass blue shell looks really nice. It's a sweet-lookin piece. But I agree with you on its fabric mixes. They're either saying that eVent is the most breathable fabric out there, but won't hold up under hard wear off-road like hitting branches or carrying a 7 lb Camelbak, or else they're saying the no-name fabric is breathable enough (which is corroborated by their other shells' nameless "waterproof/breathable" material claims) to satisfy a lot of customers.

The final issue is how long will it last? Ziemas says the Taiga is better-made. That sounds plausible to me: it meets Gore's stringent construction-quality requirements.

...That Showers Pass blue shell looks really nice. It's a sweet-lookin piece. But I agree with you on its fabric mixes. They're either saying that eVent is the most breathable fabric out there, but won't hold up under hard wear off-road like hitting branches or carrying a 7 lb Camelbak, or else they're saying the no-name fabric is breathable enough (which is corroborated by their other shells' nameless "waterproof/breathable" material claims) to satisfy a lot of customers...

Yeah, I don't mind them saying eVent won't hold up to heavy backpack strap use - I mean, a simple camelback seems kind of pathetic, but backpack straps are constantly rubbing over and over and over again on one of the worst areas for it to lose waterproofing and a *lot* of water weighs a lot. If you constantly wear a camelback or backback, I can understand it.

But the arms hitting branches and stuff...that just seems odd.

On the other hand, mountain bikers certainly take a lot more tumbles than road bikers, and it sure would seem pathetic to buy a $250 jacket then fall off your bike and rip it on your 3rd ride out.

And like you said - maybe the arms are really made out of another more durable "breathable enough" fabric - perhaps a goretex clone like you mentioned. However, assuming that the current concensus about eVent being just about the most breathable waterproof fabric out there is true, I would say that even eVent isn't 100% "breathable enough" - lots of people have written that it's good, but if it's warm (not hot, but warm) and you're working hard it will still turn into a sauna.

Maybe the arms don't perspire as much as your chest/back? It also seems akward that it appears they use the less breathable material at the arm pits...

Personally, I avoid using a waterproof 'hard shell' when it's much below freezing. I've found it's much better to move a lot of air and stay drier.

Down jacket from thrift store $1.00

Down jacket from thrift store $1.00

While I feel like I may be way overthinking and overspending on winter clothing, I'm pretty sure that won't do it - I need something windproof, not something that will just keep me warm when I'm standing still. :-P

Based on your title and much of the thread so far, it seems you're trying to choose between two jackets, of which I know nothing. But lack of knowledge has never stopped me from making a comment....

What I would say is that I've been very happy with my outer shell, which is an Ibex Pingo (http://www.ibexwear.com/shop/ProductDetail.php?GID=1177&VID=14080&Product=Pingo+Jacket). It is made of "climawool" a polyester/merino wool blend. Its windproof, pretty darn water resistant (as in I've never gotten wet in snow wearing it), lightweight, and breatheable. It's a very versatile jacket. It makes for a great outer layer, and great inner layer under heavier jacket. When it rains, I wear a carradice cape over it. I've worn it down to -10F (with several layers underneath).

Personally, I avoid using a waterproof 'hard shell' when it's much below freezing. I've found it's much better to move a lot of air and stay drier.

I'm of the same view. I find that no matter how well vented, I will steam up a hard shell. I stay with softshells for pretty much most riding conditions. Some are very water repellent, and when precipitation is in the form of snow or ice, I've found that this repellency is all I need.

For that kind of dough, I'd opt for a nice Rapha softshell - on sale now at a few places.

I concur with riff that softshells are very wind-resistant, they are much more breathable than hardshells, and satisfactorily withstand rain for short periods, such as commuting 5-10 miles to work, or snow and icefall indefinitely. Get one with pit zips. It adds a bit of expense, but you'll find the ability to quickly adjust bulk-vapor venting with various temps, humidities and exertion levels is worth the cost.

I just noticed this thread

I have a Showers Pass Elite 2.0 Jacket and Rain Pants. Both are Event. I also have the hood.

I really like all of them. The Event fabric is extremely breatheable but just as importantly, it is light and flexible, the garment designs are really well thought out and the quality of construction is very good.

They are light enough that I don't mind carrying them when I'm not sure it will rain, they are easy to put on and they are comfortable enough that they are the first thing I reach for for cool and cold weather cycling or walking as well as to take along when I'm driving somewhere.

The jacket venting design is better than anything else I have seen. With the cuffs open wide, you get a forced draft up the arms that makes the jacket wearable in surprisingly warm weather. In sub freezing weather, I close the cuffs and pit vents and I have not found the open back vent to be any problem at all.

The pants have a knee vent that also makes them very comfortable when your knees flex as you cycle. In addition to an angled velcro strap at the bottom they have a second one a bit higher up that keeps the pants from brushing against the chain or the bike frame. They are also just wide enough that I can put them on without having to take off my shoes or boots (just in the case of boots). The bottom part of the pants does not seem to be Event but I have not found that to be a problem.

The light weight and compact folded size make them ideal for fitting into carryon luggage for air travel.

My use is mainly for cycle commuting, cycling around town, some trail hiking and some air travel. I recommend them highly for all of those uses.

For extensive hiking in the rain with a heavy pack through scrub, I would probably choose something more bomb proof and sacrifice comfort weight etc. but I would get and use the Showers Pass gear anyway because that's what I would want for the rest of the time.

David

...The pants have a knee vent that also makes them very comfortable when your knees flex as you cycle. In addition to an angled velcro strap at the bottom they have a second one a bit higher up that keeps the pants from brushing against the chain or the bike frame. They are also just wide enough that I can put them on without having to take off my shoes or boots (just in the case of boots). The bottom part of the pants does not seem to be Event but I have not found that to be a problem....

Thanks for the info.

I just read about the knee vent elsewhere to - doesn't that make it cold for winter/cold biking?

Thanks for the info.

I just read about the knee vent elsewhere to - doesn't that make it cold for winter/cold biking?

I've had a couple of pairs of rain pants with the knee vent, including Showers Pass ones. I've found that my knees get cold and ache in colder weather (-5c) with this style of pant.

Taiga makes a rain pant that has a solid, articulated knee that doesn't make your knees cold. They also have wear spots on the seat, crotch, and ankles, which is a big bonus.

https://www.taigaworks.ca/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=63

i wear the outer liner from my Columbia jacket. its like a windbreaker but its got a mesh liner under the synthetic (nylon) outer shell. its water proof and breathes alright.

there's nothing wrong with a regular winter coat. i got my Columbia at a discount store about 4 years ago for 80 bucks and its still a great coat.

I've got an Endura shell with pit zips that I bought from Nashbar on closeout a few years ago. It has eVent material, and it's worked very well. I wouldn't like to pay full price for it. I've never tried the Showerspass products.

One thing to remember is more breathability and staying dryer translates into colder. Younger riders tend to like this fine. Me, I like warm. It's an age thing. I carry a change of tops for long rides.

Well, I tried ordering the mountain jacket and the rain pants (before I found out about the knee vent). That didn't work out so well. I have long arms, and while the "Large" in the Elite 2.0 jacket fit fine, the arms were to short on the mountain jacket. I have a lot of shirts where the arms are the same length as the ones on the mountain jacket and those work ok for me, but it's different when we're talking about a winter jacket that *needs* to cover my *entire* arm no matter how stretched out I am on the bike. I got actual measurements - the arms on the "large" winter jacket are 3 inches shorter than the arms on the "large" Elite 2.0 "road" jacket. So it wouldn't work. As a side note, the winter jacket seemed warmer (maybe just a tighter fit?) and the arms were less flexible - that stuff they put on the elbow to make it extra durable just does not flex much. Don't know that it would matter if I was actually, exclusively riding a mountain bike.

The pants do indeed have the knee vent. There's fabric inside the vent, so it's not as bad as it could be, but I still just didn't think anything that "scooped" into into the pants was a good idea for winter biking.

However, I talked to the people at Showers Pass and they said they could sew up the knee vent there for an additional fee, tape it, seal it etc so it would still be waterproof, and send it to me. So I'm giving that a shot. The bike shop I was that had full goretex pants like those that a previous poster mentioned for $180. I debated whether to get those instead - I'm still not sure I made the right choice, but I've ordered the custom work at this point.

I also ended up ordering the Elite 2.0 rain jacket in red. My reasoning was thus:
1. I already know it fits.
2. People in this thread and a number of other threads have said they've used it for winter biking and it's worked great. Some of said they prefer more softshell stuff, but -
3. I need a rain jacket for biking in 30-50 degree weather when it's raining or might rain anyways, so it will be useful even if I end up preferring to use something else for winter biking. I regularly bike 20 miles each way - "rain resistant" sounds fine for shorter trips, or trips where it definitely never gets above freezing, but certainly a 20 mile trip in the rain at 40 degrees warrants a full rain jacket.
4. A lot of the softshell stuff costs around $180 anyways (vs $230 for the rain jacket)
5. Though I am a little concerned that the vent in the back of the jacket will be an issue, I realized the only purpose of the jacket is to stop the wind, not to be an insulating layer. As long as it isn't actively pulling air into the jacket (like it would in if it was in the front) it probably isn't a problem. Plus, even if I really really hate it, I can seal it off by putting a piece of tape over it. :-)
6. Regarding the post before this, I think the jacket's purposes is to stop the wind from getting through, not to be an insulating layer. I have sweaters and other layers to keep me warm - frankly, I really really prefer to be on the warm side when biking to. Just last night I didn't quite put enough layers on and ended up a little chilly by the end up the ride. Not chilly enough to stop and put on another layer from my bag, but chilly enough that I wished I had at the beginning of the ride. Which brings me to another idea that someone else brought up - because the jacket has adjustable pit zips and vents, I'll be able to regulate my temperature without actually getting off the bike. I like the idea, at least, that I could put on warm layers and start off warm, then open the pit zips a little after I'm 15 minutes into the ride and warmed up, then close them again near the end of my trip when it's gotten colder (I always seem to start biking before sundown, and end up biking when it's dark out).

My only concern is that the jacket might be a little to short in the front - it's cut to be shorter in the front for when you're leaning over, but I have a longer torso and it's on the edge. I guess I'll find out whether it's an issue or not once the jacket arrives!

You really don't need an expensive outer layer jacket for below freezing temps. I use a cheap jacket from Performance that uses a Powershield type of material that is water resistant and breaths well. Layer wool or fleece underneath for warmth. It cost like 30 bucks but it does have a cheap zipper so it's not made like the best gear but the material seems good quality.

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=6157&subcategory_ID=1130

Now a good waterproof rain jacket is something that you should spend a little more money on unless it rarely rains where you are.

However, where you have a hard time fitting things you should talk to Lou at Foxwear designs since he can custom fit your arms and torso. His prices are good and he can make exactly what you want with the right materials.

With spring here, it's too late to give the Elite a full layering road test, but you should nevertheless put on the full cold-weather kit and ride a mile or two. If it feels constricted, exchange it for an XL, which is probably cut a little longer in the torso too.

I use suspenders to pull up my rain pants so the crotch doesn't snag my saddle nose. If you find the SP jacket-pants overlap is marginal, suspenders will pull the pants top up and give you 2-3 more inches of "insurance".

With spring here, it's too late to give the Elite a full layering road test, but you should nevertheless put on the full cold-weather kit and ride a mile or two. If it feels constricted, exchange it for an XL, which is probably cut a little longer in the torso too.

I use suspenders to pull up my rain pants so the crotch doesn't snag my saddle nose. If you find the SP jacket-pants overlap is marginal, suspenders will pull the pants top up and give you 2-3 more inches of "insurance".

Thanks for the suggestion - I'll keep that in mind! :-)

You've already made your decision, but I want to add a few comments to this thread. I own the Rapha Classic Softshell, Ibex Pingo, and a Rab Drillium Jacket made of eVent.

The Rapha is a stylish jacket that is highly breathable and wind resistant. It is fairly waterproof as long as the coating is still good, but you will get wet in a downpour.

I love the way my orange Pingo looks, and it is an excellent cold weather jacket. It isn't ideal for cycling though because the arms should be slightly longer, the tail isn't dropped, and the cuffs aren't very good. There's nothing actually wrong with the cuffs, but they aren't stretchy enough to easily get over the cuff of a glove (like the Softshell) and they don't have a hook and loop closure, which allows easy adjustment (like the Drillium).

My favorite wet weather jacket is definitely the Rab Drillium. It is designed as a multi-sport jacket, so it has long arms, a drop tail, and generously sized cuffs that easily go over mountaineering gloves. The jacket doesn't have any vents in it, but I still find it to be breathable. The majority of my time riding is spent with a backpack on. Sometimes I will do 50 mile rides with 30 lbs in my bag. There is no visible wear on the shoulders or any part of the back due to riding this way. It is definitely durable enough for me.