Commuting - Why hate on Segways?

Segways are carfree devices that probably have a mininal impact on the environment. They seem to mix pretty well with other modes of transportation. The inventor, Dean Kamen, seems like a sincere and caring guy--even if he does drink his own pee (http://asap.ap.org/stories/240474.s).

So why do we (most bike commuters) hate on Segways so much?

Do people ride those things in the street? I've never seen one. I didn't know they were hated.

They're illegal unless licensed like a vehicle (may be changed in the future as it's virtually impossible to get now) in the UK so you don't really see them outside.

I'm not keen on them because I've seen them in use around here. They're wide; especially if you have the little hardcase panniers for them. They take up much more than half the sidewalk, forcing people out of your way. They top out at ~12mph; far faster than anyone is walking around. I rarely see the Segway riders keeping a slow and steady pace with any other pedestrian traffic. They're weaving around people like a kid on a skateboard. Finally, they're squirrelly for new operators; much like a bicycle. Except that Segways are allowed, if not specifically confined to the sidewalk with other pedestrian traffic.

Conceptually, I have no complaints. In practice, I'm just not diggin' them.

A Segway rider can't be taken seriously, it's just silly looking. That said, I don't hate the things.

It's basically a high-tech Jazzy. I don't hate them; I just sort of pity the riders.

I don't hate them, but I would say they are ridiculous in the same sense that we "need" cars to be prosthetic extensions of our bodies because we (speaking generally of people) are too pathetic to get around using our own muscles.

What advantage does a segway have over a bicycle, other than appealing to those folks to whom even the wonderfully-efficient mode of transport we all know as cycling is too difficult?

With all that being said, (1) I don't claim to be an expert, because I've never used one of these things, and (2) I realize that they may make sense in limited applications such as for some urban police.

Though I'd rather see folks on segways than in cars.

I've ridden a Segway many times, back when they first came out. They're incredibly easy to ride; I've taught a number of people to ride them in less than 3 minutes.

They're fun to ride for a few minutes - and then you think that you would either be:
A. Actually getting some exercise, by riding a bike or,
B. Moving much faster, as on a motor scooter, motorcycle, or car.

I could definitely see using one in certain situations - like, if I were a foot patrolman and I had to patrol an area all day (like, a beach or amusement park). Or I weren't physically able to ride a bike. Or if I were a property manager and had to scoot around all day long (say, running around a big resort or university campus or apartment complex or industrial park).

I don't see any reason to hate them.

So why do we (most bike commuters) hate on Segways so much?When is the last time the commuting forum even had a segway thread and did it really have any significant segway hating in it?

I call strawman on you Roody with this thread!:troll:

What the funk does a Segway have to do with bike commuting?

I went to a place in Denmark that had an off-road Segway track and saw a large number of people riding them. All types of people: attractive girls, young kids, old people, businessmen, fat people, skinny people, myself, my friends, etc. I have determined that it is impossible to ride a Segway without looking like an idiot.

Other than that, I just don't really see the point. They have a reasonably large footprint, they're not very fast, and yet you're not getting the exercise benefit of walking or cycling. Other than a few specific applications, the only real use of them that I can think of is that they're neat and people like novelty.

I like segways. We have two in our city. They're allowed on sidewalks now.

Manufacturer and inventor of Segway announced well in advance of bringing them to market that they were the be-all, most ultimate, earth moving invention for people of all time (or something to that effect). Then the world got a look at them and hasn't stopped laughing.

I don't hate them, but compared to a bicycle the are not very practical. They are heavy, slow, short range and if you run out of power, you can't pedal it home. I prefer to pedal to exercise and to go farther. They might be handy for someone who can't pedal due to a health issue.

This thread + Segway = FAIL

The director of the summer camp where I've worked for many years uses one to get around the camp. There are roads all around camp, and when there aren't he does fine riding it on the grass. it's a great way for him to get around, rather than the golf cart he used to drive. He must put on 30mi /day going back and forth around camp.

When is the last time the commuting forum even had a segway thread and did it really have any significant segway hating in it?

I call strawman on you Roody with this thread!:troll:

So I'll put you down as loving on the segways. Will you sell your bikes and buy one?

To answer your question, I don't think there has been a thread on this forum about segways. There have been posts with segway hating. What got me going was that I had talk with some commuters who hated segways a couple months ago. Then there was a recent thread in Living Carfree about how Segways slide on ice (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=506150), and nobody had much good to say about them. I wondered if this was the consensus, and why.

I like segways. We have two in our city. They're allowed on sidewalks now.
Some bike and pedestrian advocates don't think letting them on the sidewalk is such a good idea. They're heavier and less maneuverable than a bike and they don't have to have lights, bells or other safety equipmant.

John Allen on segways (http://www.bikexprt.com/witness/product/segway.htm)

Segways are great for mall cops. I think for commuting they suffer from being neither fish nor fowl. They are not really fast enough for riding in the street and they look as though they would be difficult to provision with lights. I've never seen one ridden in the street (but then, I scarcely never see them other than in malls, airports and such with cops on them).

On the other hand they are too fast for sidewalks. Fundamentally, sidewalks are for pedestrians.

Overall I guess they just seem less practical than alternatives like bicycles, scooters and cars.

Some bike and pedestrian advocates don't think letting them on the sidewalk is such a good idea. They're heavier and less maneuverable than a bike and they don't have to have lights, bells or other safety equipmant.

John Allen on segways (http://www.bikexprt.com/witness/product/segway.htm)

Unlike a bike they comfortably travel at 3mph allowing them to move right behind a walker for long distances. I'm not convinced they belong on streets with high speed limits although I see no reason they shouldn't be allowed in 25mph zones. There's probably no need to regulate it though. Much like bicyclists most segway users will probably go out of their way to avoid 40mph 5 lane suburban-nightmare-ways.

Segways are great for mall cops. I think for commuting they suffer from being neither fish nor fowl. They are not really fast enough for riding in the street and they look as though they would be difficult to provision with lights. I've never seen one ridden in the street (but then, I scarcely never see them other than in malls, airports and such with cops on them).

On the other hand they are too fast for sidewalks. Fundamentally, sidewalks are for pedestrians.

Overall I guess they just seem less practical than alternatives like bicycles, scooters and cars.

On the contrary. I think they're perfect for suburban sidewalks. Suburban sidewalks are empty most of the time and a "rush hour" would involve two people passing each other in opposite directions.

Distances are long. If you need to travel 2-5 miles it's really too far to simply walk (unless you have a lot of spare time) but if you can maintain 8mph on a segway for most of the trip a 5 mile trip is about the same time commitment as a 2 mile walk.

They might not belong on urban sidewalks. And unfortunately they're expensive and unfamiliar enough that suburban American will be afraid of them an unwilling to give up their Tahoe (for a normal car) in order to buy one.

On the contrary. I think they're perfect for suburban sidewalks.

We have snow and ice on our sidewalks for 4 or 5 months of the year. How do the segways do there?

Segways are a gateway vehicle. If popularized they would just increase the numbers of people who must ride mobility scooters later in life due to physical neglect. If you can get their on a Segway, you can get their on foot or by bike.

Because they make even the most elite anti-terror cops look silly and lazy?

http://cache.boston.com/universal/site_graphics/blogs/bigpicture/chinamil_07_09/chinamil8.jpg

:p

(via (http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2008/07/antiterrorism_exercises_in_chi.html))

So why do we (most bike commuters) hate on Segways so much?

Outrageous Cost + lack of practicality + lack of portability (oversized and overweight) + lack of protection from the elements for the operator seems sufficient. Over the top promotional hyperbole from the inventor and investment backer (Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers) is a good reason too.

Crooked Segway lobbyists manipulated laws across the country so that in many cities, the only legal electric vehicle (aside from a wheelchair) is a Segway.
Therefore, NO ebikes.
Therefore, I hate Segway.

He must put on 30mi /day going back and forth around camp.

Nope.

The range would be useless to me.

Range: The pSeries Segway scooter range on a single battery charge is 6-10 miles, the Segway iSeries range is 8-12 miles. The Q Electric Chariot's range is an impressive 15-18 miles.

http://urbanscooters.com/cgi-bin/urbanscooters/q-scooter.html

I don't hate them. But I've only ever seen one sitting at a rental place one time. I've never seen one actually moving.

So why do we (most bike commuters) hate on Segways so much?

I don't think "we" do, as a group. I know that for me, I just don't have experience with Segways in the mix of traffic: we've got all kinds of motor vehicles, cars, peds, motorcycles, mopeds, scooters, the occasional inline skater (yeah, in the street), the occasional horse, and of course bicycles, but I don't think I've ever seen a Segway in the street.

Because they make even the most elite anti-terror cops look silly and lazy?

That application (somewhat) makes sense - after all, it's hard to aim and fire a gun while riding a bicycle. Commuting, on the other hand, makes much less sense on a segway, but that doesn't necessarily imply hatred.

I don't like them because idiot gubmint officials think they are cool and have thrown away our tax dollars on them. I am pretty sure that the large majority have been purchased by government agencies. Few people are stupid enough to drop their own money on them.

Cops use them for short range patrols where a bike would make wayyyy more sense. Bikes are a small fraction of the cost, faster, can carry more gear and I would guess, more comfortable to ride since you aren't standing all day long.

This idiot that invented it, thought his reputation, slick marketing and lobbyists would make it a success.

If I ever find out my town has wasted money on one, I will go down to the first selectman's office and punch him in the nose.

"I roll on, my segway, and everybody says I'm white and nerdy. White and nerdy"


So why do we (most bike commuters) hate on Segways so much?

Because Weird Al said so, that's why.
D

That application (somewhat) makes sense - after all, it's hard to aim and fire a gun while riding a bicycle. Commuting, on the other hand, makes much less sense on a segway, but that doesn't necessarily imply hatred.

But for crying out loud they're steering with their knees. They look like little boys who have to go to the bathroom. How will they inspire fear and dominate?

Nope.

The range would be useless to me.

Range: The pSeries Segway scooter range on a single battery charge is 6-10 miles, the Segway iSeries range is 8-12 miles. The Q Electric Chariot's range is an impressive 15-18 miles.

http://urbanscooters.com/cgi-bin/urbanscooters/q-scooter.html

I didn't say he put 30 miles all on the segway. he runs the segway till the battery dies. Then he charges the segway and takes out the golf cart. Takes the segway back out when it's charged again.

We have snow and ice on our sidewalks for 4 or 5 months of the year. How do the segways do there?

Not well, but neither does the rider in that cold weather when they're not exerting themselves. We have the same issue here ;).

If significant numbers used sidewalks it's likely the city would end up clearing the sidewalks.

Crooked Segway lobbyists manipulated laws across the country so that in many cities, the only legal electric vehicle (aside from a wheelchair) is a Segway.
Therefore, NO ebikes.
Therefore, I hate Segway.

That's the only valid reason I've heard yet.

But for crying out loud they're steering with their knees. They look like little boys who have to go to the bathroom. How will they inspire fear and dominate?

By killing the guy next to you with the first shot. That's the typical method.

I know of some vets who have lost one or both legs from war injuries who use Segways to improve their mobility. It's painful for many those guys to walk any distance, especially in the first year of using artificial limbs. I am sure that the criticisms of Segways I have read about here are not directed towards users who have genuine physical limitations. Most of the guys that I have spoke with that use Segways for mobility prefer them to wheelchairs because they have better visibility and it's actually easier for them than getting in and out of a wheelchair.

Now, debating the use of Segways by able bodied citizens is a different thing. It's a free country, and if somebody wants to use one on a sidewalk or pedestrian zone, and it's not crowded and a hazard to pedestrians, who cares? I have seen a few here in Orange County, so few that they attract attention. The Sheriff guys at John Wayne airport buzz up and down the aisles on Segways, and I think it's a bit for show as they like their toys.

When used on sidewalks, they tend not to play well with others. When walkers pass each other on a narrow sidewalk, they turn a bit sideways to accommodate each other. These things can't do that, so they tend not to mix well on sidewalks in cities (which is where they're generally used). Not cool.

On the road - I don't really have a strong feeling about it if they can at least cruise at 10-15mph.

I personally have a bit of disdain for them because they're the ultimate in laziness. Really, now humanity is too lazy to walk? Because as mentioned, walking is about the only thing they replace well. What, rent-a-cops aren't fat enough yet that they need to cut out anything that might be accidentally construed as exercise? And these things aren't cheap, so in a lot of cases we have a lot of taxpayer dollars spent so somebody doesn't have to walk or ride a bike.

As mentioned, of course, using them for the handicapped is a whole other story.

Now, debating the use of Segways by able bodied citizens is a different thing. It's a free country, and if somebody wants to use one on a sidewalk or pedestrian zone, and it's not crowded and a hazard to pedestrians, who cares?

Yes, but even a free country has to have laws that regulate how streets and sidewalks are used. A sidewalk doesn't have to be crowded to make Segway use hazardous to pedestrians. Even if only one person is walking on a sidewalk, that person can be hurt if a Segway hits him/her. There are Segway users here in Traverse City, and they zip around pretty fast on the downtown sidewalks.

I have seen Segways in use by security in Millenium Park in downtown Chicago, and have ridden one for a short time. They are actually kind of fun as a novelty.

I also think they are in an awkward position between a pedestrian (sidewalk) and a vehicle (road), but too fast for one and too slow for the other.

I have also heard that without suspension, and having rather hard wheels they get tiring to stand on after a while. Remember that you can't shift around on them too much to stretch because your body weight affects the steering and speed.

I think security might be the best niche for most of their use. However, if someone goes this direction, I think the T3 Motion might often be more practical than the Segway. T3 Motions are like 3-wheeled electric ATV's. T3's are a little bigger than Segways, but they seem more stable, go faster, can carry additional supplies, seem a little more comfortable for the rider, and have better lighting.

Yes, T3's might encourage laziness, and yes, a bike might often serve the purpose (for security) better, but they could be useful in certain niches. Here's a picture:
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:m4CQiRASKnAwaM:http://www.vtnews.vt.edu/images/vtpolice350.jpg

T3 Motion

I was googling this thing and apparently it costs $6200 - why exactly should an electric tricycle cost more than a segway?

btw: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=477668

Chicago is promoting Segway tours of downtown. I have seen pictures and promo's of this, but not an actual tourist doing it. But then, I don't spend all that much time down there either.

They are also promoting bicycle rentals, and the same applies. Nice glass buildings full of bikes, but I have never seen a customer actually go in and rent one during the 60 minutes or so I have been near enough to observe one.

Segways are carfree devices that probably have a mininal impact on the environment. They seem to mix pretty well with other modes of transportation. The inventor, Dean Kamen, seems like a sincere and caring guy--even if he does drink his own pee (http://asap.ap.org/stories/240474.s).

So why do we (most bike commuters) hate on Segways so much?

I don't hate them. In fact, I think it's good solution for many folks with short commutes. Personally, I don't think I would like being propelled in a standing position, and I prefer the sensation of riding a bike. No hatin', though.

..

Manufacturer and inventor of Segway announced well in advance of bringing them to market that they were the be-all, most ultimate, earth moving invention for people of all time (or something to that effect). Then the world got a look at them and hasn't stopped laughing.

+1. Plus, the guy drinks his own pee. :lol:


I know of some vets who have lost one or both legs from war injuries who use Segways to improve their mobility.

I've finally seen one of those, too. This particular version had the rider seated on a platform, which ran on two wheels like any other Segway. It worked very well climbing a park hillside covered in pine needles & grass. Not many wheelchairs I can think of can do that.


Chicago is promoting Segway tours of downtown. I have seen pictures and promo's of this, but not an actual tourist doing it. But then, I don't spend all that much time down there either.

They're here on the Mall every day. I actually want to try a tour. Effectively as fast as a typical bike tour (occasionally casual bikers get very slow when they try to stick together), don't make the tourists sweat as much, and still cover a lot of ground.

Chicago is promoting Segway tours of downtown. I have seen pictures and promo's of this, but not an actual tourist doing it. But then, I don't spend all that much time down there either.

They are also promoting bicycle rentals, and the same applies. Nice glass buildings full of bikes, but I have never seen a customer actually go in and rent one during the 60 minutes or so I have been near enough to observe one.

I've seen them used for one hour guided tours in Philadelphia along the East River Boat Houses and in San Antonio at the Alamo. I think about $65 for an hour tour.

Don't hate them...except when they are misused on pedestrian sidewalks. They are a niche item and a fairly expensive one at that. Large airport near me uses them for security details, probably not a bad thing given how sprawled out it is.

Aaron:)

Dean Kamen?



The man whose Slingshot water purification system has pretty much perfected the Stirling engine, a no-emission power source and can make pure medical-grade water out of anything wet (even urine or toxic waste, with no filters to change or chemicals to add and no noise) and can produce a million liters of water in a thousand days with no human intervention and could save countless lives in Third World countries?



The man whose company, Deka Research & Development, is working on prosthetic limbs that include a hand/arm combo that allows the user as complicated as operating an electric drill or as delicate as picking up a grape with its fingers all the while being light (because it's made of titanium) and comfortable for the user to wear?



The man whose robotics competition aimed at schools, called FIRST, which handed out $10 million in scholarships last year alone?



That guy?



Yeah, he's clearly an idiot.

It's a free country, and if somebody wants to use one on a sidewalk or pedestrian zone, and it's not crowded and a hazard to pedestrians, who cares?

You know, I tried to use that logic with my motorcycle but the cops baulked at it.