Triathlon - Kestrel Brand Manager saying hi

Just want to introduce myself to the group. I'm here for any Kestrel questions or anything related to carbon fiber.


You can also visit www.kestrelbicycles.com for our new 2009 lineup and tech questions.

Thanks,

Steven

hello!

love your bikes! and i love the history of kestrel as leaders and innovators! i've almost bought a kestrel on several occasions, most recently as a backup roadbike to my Look 595. i'm sure i'll end up with a kestrel one of these days!

Kestrel has really cool aspects to it as a company. Welcome to the forum.

hey man sounds good! thanks for joining us!

Is your EP /Pro deal pricing out yet? just curious...

My question:

Why the hell is BikesDirect selling your bikes?
Do you expect real bike shops to carry Kestrel when BD can sell them for what we pay for them?
Ditto for Fuji.

PlatyPius
Fuji Dealer

Toasty!!!

Welcome, how are your boys doing in the Tour of Cali? :)

My question:

Why the hell is BikesDirect selling your bikes?
Do you expect real bike shops to carry Kestrel when BD can sell them for what we pay for them?
Ditto for Fuji.

PlatyPius
Fuji Dealer

You just realize that you unintentionally gave them one of the best BD marketing lines ever, right?

(I'm neutral toward BD - I may buy one of their bikes, but I see lots of benefits in my LBS purchase)

You just realize that you unintentionally gave them one of the best BD marketing lines ever, right?

(I'm neutral toward BD - I may buy one of their bikes, but I see lots of benefits in my LBS purchase)

I'm just really pissed off with BD and Fuji at the moment. I was looking at BDs hybrids....they are Fujis that are rebranded with one of BDs purchased names (and some of them are actual Fujis). They're selling them for what we pay for them.

I'm more pissed off at Fuji about it. They're just starting to come back after being on the brink of non-existence, and now they do this crap. I guess I should expect to see Breezers on BD soon too.

Looking over BD, the only bike that isn't a super bargain is the one that they have to buy like the rest of us....the Surly LHT. I'm sure they get a discount from QBP (the maker of Surly, Salsa, etc) for buying in volume, but a local shop could come close to their price on that bike.

Then they (Fuji) wonder why bike shops drop them. The shop I currently work for (for the next week) just dropped them. The shop I'm going to used to be Fuji-only, but has now added a bunch of other brands so we can buy fewer Fujis. Once I'm fully in place as manager, we'll be buying even fewer. I'm not going to compete with BD. Advanced Sports (Fuji, Kestrel, SE Racing, Breezer) is going to find itself solely a BD brand if it doesn't get it's ***** together.

I own a 2005 KM40 with 650 wheels , it's a sweet bike. Its fast, very fast, Ive added a old picture of it. http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/3281/dsc02884cs0.jpg
I just had a crack on the top tube repaired by Calfree. I cant wait to ride it again next week. If I ever need to buy another Tri Bike again it will be a Airfoil. In you next model you should put the brakes behind the forks and behind the cranks. Also this might be crazy but, I would like to see a set of forks with a built in magnetic pickup to measure speed. :thumb:


Just want to introduce myself to the group. I'm here for any Kestrel questions or anything related to carbon fiber.


You can also visit www.kestrelbicycles.com for our new 2009 lineup and tech questions.

Thanks,

Steven

I'm just really pissed off with BD and Fuji at the moment. I was looking at BDs hybrids....they are Fujis that are rebranded with one of BDs purchased names (and some of them are actual Fujis). They're selling them for what we pay for them.

I'm more pissed off at Fuji about it. They're just starting to come back after being on the brink of non-existence, and now they do this crap. I guess I should expect to see Breezers on BD soon too.

Looking over BD, the only bike that isn't a super bargain is the one that they have to buy like the rest of us....the Surly LHT. I'm sure they get a discount from QBP (the maker of Surly, Salsa, etc) for buying in volume, but a local shop could come close to their price on that bike.

Then they (Fuji) wonder why bike shops drop them. The shop I currently work for (for the next week) just dropped them. The shop I'm going to used to be Fuji-only, but has now added a bunch of other brands so we can buy fewer Fujis. Once I'm fully in place as manager, we'll be buying even fewer. I'm not going to compete with BD. Advanced Sports (Fuji, Kestrel, SE Racing, Breezer) is going to find itself solely a BD brand if it doesn't get it's ***** together.

I'm not in the bike business, but in an industry the works in a very similar way. I'm part of a large network of distributors and wholesale suppliers (I'm a distributor which essentially is a retailer). Every once in a while we have to deal with someone selling direct, but it never amounts to much of a threat because word gets out and their volume from distributors goes way down, forcing them to hold a certain price point. In turn, the true wholesalers get a bump and end up slashing prices so we can compete with the direct sellers.

So my questions is, instead of being angry at direct sellers, why not dump them for exclusive wholesalers? If you all did that, the exclusive wholesalers (the smart ones) would lower their margins enabling you to compete. That would be a win for them, you and us consumers.

It just seems pointless to me to try to shame them into selling exclusively wholesale. Money talks and will force them to go one direction or another. If it makes better financial sense to sell direct, no amount of shaming in the world will convince them. But considering the number of LBS's, I can't imagine why you're not more competitive.

Now, if the wholesale companies are refusing to budge on their margins, that's different, but it only takes one to lead the way. That company needs to be rewarded big time. The others need to suffer. It's just the way it is. For retailers to survive, they need to become better buyers.

My 2¢

Just want to introduce myself to the group. I'm here for any Kestrel questions or anything related to carbon fiber.



Need to ask...anything you can do for all of us BF'ers by way of great deals/discounts on Kestrel bikes and gear?

It is out. Your local Kestrel dealer handles all sales. Kestrel doesn't sell direct to consumers.

Hope that helps.

when you guys tested your aerodynamics in the wind tunnel was it with a person on the bike ride or just the bike by itself?

when you guys tested your aerodynamics in the wind tunnel was it with a person on the bike ride or just the bike by itself?

Right now, we are testing all facets. The bike is being tested now without a rider but we head back with our final prototype and test with a rider and without. We also test our competitors bikes the same way. Our testing procedures that I follow are always to compare the bikes out of the box, meaning how the customer would receive it.

We use the same size bike, set all the seat heights, bar heights, etc. at the same measurements or close to even where we can.

All that said, the riders is still 80% of the equation so we really focus on stack and reach and our overall measurements of our bikes. We also test what parts work best on each bike. i.e which wheelset works best, what bar works best, etc. etc.

Hope that helps...

Good responses,good to hear from you on the forums - it takes a lot of guts to get out here nowadays, ESPECIALLY the bike forums, where the word "shill" seems to come from the corners faster than a speeding bullet. (I think I've been called a shill for 3 different products now. Maybe I am?) It's always cool to hear the manager's take on things, and for us to have a line, however small, of communication.

Congrats to your coup in the Rock Racing team using your bikes. I know it's mostly rider, but it does count for some that an entire team can ride successfully on bikes that are accessible to many buyers. I'll be looking closely at your lineup in the near future.

Oh - and I like that you sell bikes through Bikesdirect.

I'd like to know how much of an incredible moment it was when Rock Racing won a stage on an RT800. What was the general mood around Kestrel? It had to feel pretty good!

Hey,

I almost bought a Kestrel Talon. It is a sexy bike and my friend had one and loved it... until he had a small crack in the top tube. He never wrecked the bike or raced it and had about 4,000 miles on it. The bike was not in bad shape of poorly kept either. He spoke to a Kestrel dealer and didn't get any where, they refused to warranty his bike. The reason I didn't buy a Kestrel is because of fear that I could have faced the same problem but a company like Specialized would take care of it, and I've seen it happen with a Tarmac and Epic.

Unfortunately, no on on our school team will ever buy a Kestrel, the hate for kestrel is pretty epic around our team and some other local school teams that have heard teh story.

making a UCI TT legal bike anytime soon?

I think my first tri bike will be kestrel ...... from BikesDirect.

Sorry... I bought my road at my LBS......... and for the price.....no one in my area touches kestrel and bikes direct.


No.........I'm not shilling for them either.
I actually try to avoid BD.
But...
Cant this time.

Hey,

I almost bought a Kestrel Talon. It is a sexy bike and my friend had one and loved it... until he had a small crack in the top tube. He never wrecked the bike or raced it and had about 4,000 miles on it. The bike was not in bad shape of poorly kept either. He spoke to a Kestrel dealer and didn't get any where, they refused to warranty his bike. The reason I didn't buy a Kestrel is because of fear that I could have faced the same problem but a company like Specialized would take care of it, and I've seen it happen with a Tarmac and Epic.

Unfortunately, no on on our school team will ever buy a Kestrel, the hate for kestrel is pretty epic around our team and some other local school teams that have heard teh story.

Something is VERY fishy with this.

First, the dealer doesn't warranty the frameset, Kestrel does so they story doesn't sound quite right.
Second, NOT everything is a warranty. When a frameset comes back for evaluation, is is immediately inspected for an impact. Customers don't always realize that an impact is not a warranty.
Third. We always offer up the option to repair or replace a frameset at a reduced price

So, the epic hate for Kestrel seems a wee bit out of place here.

I'm happy to help out your friend and he can contact me directly @ sharad@kestrelbicycles.com

making a UCI TT legal bike anytime soon?

Ready to go in 2010.

I'd like to know how much of an incredible moment it was when Rock Racing won a stage on an RT800. What was the general mood around Kestrel? It had to feel pretty good!

It was very cool! I just spent the weekend with the team. They were in town for the Philly Bike Race and it was the first time I got to congratulate them on their season. Really a great group of guys and they provide me with a lot of great tips and feedback.

I passed on your e-mail to my friend. I hope something works out. I was test rode the new 2009 talon this weekend and it goes toe to toe with the Orca I am looking at, for far less...

I will back Steven up on the cracked frame. My Talon developed an odd crack in the underside of the top tube. I still have no idea where it could have come from. My bike is well cared for and I know everyone at the LBS that works on my bike. They shipped it back to Kestrel and it was approved for warranty replacement to my surprise.

Now to be totally transparent here, they still haven't shipped the replacement (LBS shipped it in March) so I had to buy another frame just to compete and train. So that was disappointing, but I can tell from scrambling to find another 56cm frame, that everybody has constrained inventory at the moment.

All that said, I contacted Steven immediately upon finding the crack, he replied within the hour (from a business trip in Taiwan), explained the process and cc'd the people who would be inspecting the bike so they knew it would be coming. Just try that with another company. Very few people will open themselves up on forums like this and others. It's a ballsy thing to do as people with an alias will just take shots at you, but Steven does this and provides his contact information. He also has a great Twitter feed if you're interested.

Hi Steven,
Are there any weight limits to the Kestrel bikes?

Was looking for a forum like this. Just bought one of your bikes and I love it. Thinking about replacing the headset. How do I know which headset will fit on these bikes? Thanks in advance.

My question:

Why the hell is BikesDirect selling your bikes?
Do you expect real bike shops to carry Kestrel when BD can sell them for what we pay for them?
Ditto for Fuji.

PlatyPius
Fuji Dealer

PlatyPius, Wow ... talk about sour grapes ... I am surprised with your immature response.

We live in a free market economy and you need to learn to compete or your resources will be limited.

I am not a shill, but can offer to help you learn - Read the Invisible Hand by Adam Smith ... good luck!:thumb:

PlatyPius, Wow ... talk about sour grapes ... I am surprised with your immature response.

We live in a free market economy and you need to learn to compete or your resources will be limited.

I am not a shill, but can offer to help you learn - Read the Invisible Hand by Adam Smith ... good luck!:thumb:

Read up on the meaning of "sour grapes". My post wasn't an example of it at all.

As a bicycle dealer, I expect market territory protection. Can you buy a new Trek online? Can you buy a Cannondale online? No, you can't. We want to carry Masi, but we can't because there's a dealer 4 miles away. It's the way the industry works. Fuji/Kestrel/SE/Breezer, by allowing BD to sell their bikes online, has removed the main reason a dealer deals with a certain brand.

How was my response immature?
It's in our dealer agreements that territory will be protected. Ideal (Fuji) has broken that agreement.

What exactly do I need to "learn"? Why exactly do you feel superior and qualified to tell me that I need to learn?

Wouldn't you be upset if you invested time, money, and brand-promotion into a brand, only to have it show up online? We can't buy 500 Kestrels at a time. Ergo, we can't compete with BD. Ergo, we sold our remaining Kestrels on eBay (ALSO breaking the "rules" of our dealer agreement - we can't sell on eBay, but they can sell via BD? I don't think so.) and won't be carrying them ever again. Ditto Fuji. Ditto Breezer and SE.

While I don't like Trek, I'll give them kudos where they deserve it. They do not allow ANYone to sell their bikes online. You want a Trek? You buy it from a dealer. If a dealer tries selling a Trek online, they lose their Trek dealership.

Trek understands that selling online cheapens a brand. If BD sold Treks for $200 less than a dealer, people would come to think that that model of Trek was only worth what BD was charging. Then, they'd pressure the dealer to sell it for BDs price, even though the dealer paid more for it. Then the dealers pressure Trek to lower their price so they can compete with BD. Trek loses money. Less R&D is done. Bikes become more boring. Then BD pressures Trek to lower their price further, since they buy in larger volume than the dealers, and the process starts all over again. Soon, Treks are in WalMart, selling for $150.

An exaggerated example, but that's how it works.

PlatyPius, Wow ... talk about sour grapes ... I am surprised with your immature response.

We live in a free market economy and you need to learn to compete or your resources will be limited.

I am not a shill, but can offer to help you learn - Read the Invisible Hand by Adam Smith ... good luck!:thumb:

Oh, and look at that.....it's your first and only post. In the Kestrel thread, and directed at me.

Shill or ******bag, it's all the same.

Oh, and look at that.....it's your first and only post. In the Kestrel thread, and directed at me. Shill or ******bag, it's all the same.

Tried to help you and you took the low road ... some people never learn ... :thumb:

It's not like LBS don't discount. I bought my wife's Trek from a local shop for a price that I doubt BD would have been willing to offer.

I appreciate Playpius honesty. What I hate on the forum is the bike dealers making up stories about BD. Usually they heard from a friend.

I think it is a difficult situation. In the last year I purchased one bike online and one bike from LBS. Motobecane online and a Cervelo P2C from LBS. I use my LBS for things I need quickly and for some bike work. Most work I do myself.

We need LBS. But can they survive with the situation? I don't think anyone that owns a LBS is making much money. Most do it for the love.

For things like wheels I always purchase online. Powertap, etc. The LBS even with my special relationship can not even come close to the price.

I am looking at buying a new bike for my birthday. It is really hard to pass up some of the deals out there. The Kestrel RT700 is a lot of bang for the buck. You can buy from several online dealers.

While i understand platypus' issues about online sellers, platypus' also disclosed the employee cost of cervelo's on another thread. to me this is the pot callin the kettle black in a way cause now that i know what a dealer might pay for a cervelo now i want to pay that much for the next one and demand my dealer take less on the bike as i know there is 100% markup....... hmmm

PlatyPius, Wow ... talk about sour grapes ... I am surprised with your immature response.

We live in a free market economy and you need to learn to compete or your resources will be limited.

I am not a shill, but can offer to help you learn - Read the Invisible Hand by Adam Smith ... good luck!:thumb:

You know I was reading PlatyPius' response, I don't think he said anything against the free market. If you are a retailer, you need to funnel your business to those wholesalers that benefit you and your customers the most. I'm not in the bicycle business, but it's just common business sense. If you as a wholesaler are going to after other markets, you need to take into account that it may hurt relationships in the markets you are currently in. But there's nothing immature about doing what's best for your business and customers. If enough LBS's funnel their business to wholesalers that meet their needs, prices will drop and they'll be competitive. That's just how it works.

While i understand platypus' issues about online sellers, platypus' also disclosed the employee cost of cervelo's on another thread. to me this is the pot callin the kettle black in a way cause now that i know what a dealer might pay for a cervelo now i want to pay that much for the next one and demand my dealer take less on the bike as i know there is 100% markup....... hmmm

Completely different.

I'll tell customers how much we paid for the bikes we sell too, if they ask. Reasonable people understand that we're here to make money as well as provide people with bikes and service. If someone wants to buy bikes and parts at cost, they should work at a bike shop.

I know that furniture stores sell sofas and such at 400%+ markup. I still buy my furniture at a store rather than online.

I know that my insurance is higher because I have an agent. I like my agent. I like the added value he gives to my insurance. I accept the higher cost.

I know that diamond prices are artificially inflated and that jewelers mark diamond jewelery up quite a bit (I used to set stones and create jewelery at one time also.) That didn't stop me from buying diamonds from a local jeweler when I got married. I didn't haggle, either. I paid the price asked. In return, my wife's rings are serviced (cleaned, replated if needed [white gold], sized, etc) for life.

I know that the brake rotor for my Toyota costs the parts store $18.00 while it costs me $35.00. I don't try to negotiate the price. I like having a parts store 2 blocks from me. I don't want to have to order it online and wait for it to be delivered.

Anyway..... I'm rambling again.

Why sizing differences in various models?....specifically I am normally a 56 (only 5'10 short legs 29 inseam but very long body - the 56 feels more stable yet at first "they" always steer me to a 54) but in the Talon you offer 55 (or more odd numbers). I would guess that the 55 would be fine - just wondering why the odd sizing differences. Also, if have a choice between 700 and 800 modulus?? would you prefer 800?

I have plenty of road bikes, and my 2003 Talon is rarely ridden, but I'd like a quick tri-bike.

I could convert the Talon or get a tri-bike, but I see where some folks decry the geometry,
saying a converted road bike just looks like a tri-bike, whereas the tri-only are more stable.

I was turned on to Kestrel by a freaky fast Kestrel roadie, who says I shouldn't worry about it.
It's plenty stable as a roadie, with carbon bars, etc.

Will I lose some stability going to the forward seat post position and tt/tri bars?

Oh, and P.S. The Kestrels on BD are definitely hurting the sales of P2's and P3's around here. Bike shops here don't mind, because those buyers are almost all on line, anyway, until the bike comes in, then they come to LBS to get it right.

I have plenty of road bikes, and my 2003 Talon is rarely ridden, but I'd like a quick tri-bike.

I could convert the Talon or get a tri-bike, but I see where some folks decry the geometry,
saying a converted road bike just looks like a tri-bike, whereas the tri-only are more stable.

I was turned on to Kestrel by a freaky fast Kestrel roadie, who says I shouldn't worry about it.
It's plenty stable as a roadie, with carbon bars, etc.

Will I lose some stability going to the forward seat post position and tt/tri bars?

Oh, and P.S. The Kestrels on BD are definitely hurting the sales of P2's and P3's around here. Bike shops here don't mind, because those buyers are almost all on line, anyway, until the bike comes in, then they come to LBS to get it right.

You will be fine. It's not as stable as a " tri bike" however the bike was designed with a slightly longer front center line and even with a forward body position on the bike, the Talon still is quite stable. If it was good enough for Macca, it's surely good enough for an age grouper.

hahahahaha you paid full price for jewelery, everything you say from now on is considered ******** to me. There is no going back from that one! I bet you pay full sticker price on vehicles too, I guess I should thank you for keeping our businesses in good shape. There's one born every second

you can't say r-e-t-a-r-d-e-d? that's ********

hahahahaha you paid full price for jewelery, everything you say from now on is considered ******** to me. There is no going back from that one! I bet you pay full sticker price on vehicles too, I guess I should thank you for keeping our businesses in good shape. There's one born every second


ha ha ha ha ha I'll bet you pay full price for produce wherever you buy it. There's one born every second.

WTF is your point?

You pride yourself in your ability to take money from other people's paychecks?
Bet it makes you feel good, doesn't it?

"Bob" at the bike shop, since he's the lowest on the totem pole, only gets to work 25 hours this week rather than 40 because a bunch of tight-arsed misers demanded discounts on everything. Now Bob has to either find another job, go on welfare, or start stealing from the McDonald's dumpster all because you cheap f##ks want to save 10%.

May I suggest the words: fellatio, aarvardk, and you? You can fill in the other words.

Kestrel? Never heard of the brand. Been makin' bikes long?

...not really diggin' the flash on the website either.

Tried to help you and you took the low road ... some people never learn ... :thumb:

And how exactly did you try to 'help' PP? He put forth a very rational argument, supporting his post and you posted crap.

my point was, that if you pay full sticker price for jewelery then you didn't learn anything growing up. Oh and if "Bob" has the option of working at a bike shop or going dumpster diving I'd say grow up and get a real job, he's not in high school anymore.

my point was, that if you pay full sticker price for jewelery then you didn't learn anything growing up. Oh and if "Bob" has the option of working at a bike shop or going dumpster diving I'd say grow up and get a real job, he's not in high school anymore.

So.... you'd rather shop at a bike shop staffed entirely by high school students?

Adults aren't allowed to work at a bike shop?

Guess I should get a real job....

(FWIW: I quit a job in IT to work in a bike shop again. I must REALLY be an idiot, eh?)

I must REALLY be an idiot, eh?

You certainly come across that way. This thread is about a manufacturer contact saying hi. Getting more manufacturer support on this forum is, I think, a real boon to the community. But then we have a buffoon like you come in and hijack the thread, turning it into a pricing rant. Start your own thread, if it's that important to you.


Kestrel Bicycle: welcome to the forums!

I'm here for any Kestrel questions or anything related to carbon fiber.



Why the hell is BikesDirect selling your bikes?
Do you expect real bike shops to carry Kestrel when BD can sell them for what we pay for them?


This thread is about a manufacturer contact saying hi.

Mr. Warren it seems you have a reading comprehension problem.