Bicycle Mechanics - Tricks on mounting stubborn tire?

I just finished mounting a set of Forte GT2k tires on a set of Matrix Titan II. I went through 2 GT2 tires, 2 tubes, 2 tire levers an extra trip to Performance Bike and total of 4 hours. The results were one broken nail, two very sore thumbs, back pain and two very stubborn Forte tires on the wheels.:thumb:

I have been using the Forte tires for awhile now. They are difficult tires to mount but never took more than half an hour to do a set. I guess it must the the wheels. The tires were so tight I double checked to make sure those wheels were 700c and not 27". What are your tips and tricks when mounting stubborn tires? KY jelly?

Baby powder and prayer... having good steel cored levers helps too as many plastic levers are simply unworthy.

Some tyres are just a pita to install... I have some Avocet TT30's which are 27 inch by 7/8 folding tyres and I have never run into a tougher install than these.

They were well worth the pain as they are the best 27 inch racing tyre ever made.

Once they were installed and stretched a little removing and reinstalling them is still a challenge but it's nothing like that initial install.

I always use baby pwder / talc as it does make difficult installs much easier... Schwalbe Marathons can also be a pita.

The bead seems to become less pliable with miles. I have a Power Lever, which rotates about the axle and inserts under the bead. That eases the pain somewhat.. Nothing works perfectly with difficult tires. My biggest pain has always been Armadillos.

When I saw these offered here and there, I thought it was another gimmick that wouldn't work. I was wrong. These really will pull up and mount the meanest tire you've got:

http://cgi.ebay.com/VAR-Super-Tyre-Tire-Tool-New_W0QQitemZ310113630676QQihZ021QQcategoryZ27953QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

Hunt around for a good price. They seem to sell out quickly.

Tire spray polish that you would use for your car sidewalls makes it slippery.

I've also had to use a C clamp to hold down the tire while working on one side because the tire kept going around and loosening up.

I also like Pedro's tire levers. They are very wide which makes it easy on the hands and they have a nice hook on them helping to prevent from slipping off the rim.

Warm the tires up. I fold my tires into a figure 8 and use a strip of velcro or a zip tie to hold them in that shape and set them on the dryer rack in the clothes drier.

I'm not exaggerating the VAR. It simply hook over the bead while mounted on the rim you have 1/2 the tire/tube on. Pull it back towards you - *pop* and it's on. No kidding. That simple.

And I don't own stock in VAR. I was shocked.

Warm the tires up. I fold my tires into a figure 8 and use a strip of velcro or a zip tie to hold them in that shape and set them on the dryer rack in the clothes drier.

+1

heat gun/hair dryer will do it, too (carefully, obviously ;))

You guys are overthinking the room...

http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/TL401I11-Kool-Stop+Tire+Bead+Jack+With+Handle.aspx?sc=FRGL

You guys are overthinking the room...

http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/TL401I11-Kool-Stop+Tire+Bead+Jack+With+Handle.aspx?sc=FRGL

I was looking at these as a result of researching that VAR tool. Do you have one Damocles? Do you like it and would you reccomend it?

Trick I've found that works really well is to NOT try and push up on the centre of the unmounted section. It requires stretching the bead to work, an inhuman feat. Rather, push sideways on the two sections that's wrapping over the rim.

I've never tried the Kool Stop one. Appears to be the same principle. Nice.

Anyone have one of the Kool Stop tools who can post a picture of how to use it? It's not coming to me yet...

Picture This:

The upside-down 'U' side fits over the rim on the side you have 1/2 of the tire mounted on.

Now you have attempted, by hand, to mount the other 1/2 of the tire on the other side of the rim. But there is still, let's say, 6 inches that won't go.

So the other side of the tool straddles the rim and hooks underneath the bead of the tire where you can't get it over the rim.

Now you pull the tool back towards the side that is mounted.

This pulls the bead up and over the rim and seats it.

How's that? Got it?


Looks like the Kool Stop and the VAR work by the same principle. I can vouch for the VAR tool working.

+1 for the Kool stop. Bought it a few weeks ago and it works like a charm. If you get one you will kick your self for not getting it sooner.

Greg

^^ Yep - got it. Thanks! I had to go to Kool-Stop's website for a picture clear enough to see what you meant by the upside down U side of the tool. Makes perfect sense now. Should be VERY useful in the garage. Does anyone take it on the road?

I now carry the VAR in my seat-bag. Still frozen here - hope I don't need to use it in the Spring! LOL.

I couldn't get a wire-bead panaracer tire on by hand the other day, so dug out my crank brothers speed lever thing I had bought on impulse "just in case" once upon a time. This was the first time I'd needed to try the thing and it works great. Piece of cake. No pinching of the tube, and very little effort required.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=8176

My biggest pain has always been Armadillos.

Absolutely! I've got a wheelset I can't even use because they have Armadillos on them, and I can't get them off. I bent a metal tire iron trying, and the none of my various plastic ones can even get under the bead.

I hate the idea of taking an additional tool on a ride. After looking at all the options I think VAR is the ideal tool because of it's size. Didn't VAR went out of business a few years back? Anybody know where I can get a VAR tire tool for less than ebay?

The going terms I've found are: OUT OF STOCK. I've been looking. But I picked up mine off eBay. Maybe ask Bike Tools, Etc? They do list them.

Wife bought me a KoolStop Tire Jack for Christmas - Good Stuf!

Okay, I'm about to go insane mounting a Continental Gator Skin to a Campagnolo Strada rim. Two broken steel tire levers, sore fingers, bleeding fingers. Finally got the tire on...and the tube of course got pinching in getting it on. Now...no good levers left to get the tire off. I'm about to lose my mind.

I'm going to get the VAR or the Kool Stop. There is at least one vote for the VAR and one for the Kool Stop. Anyone use both or very pleased with one or the other? I'm looking to avoid bloodying my fingers and having to scream and curse at a bicycle wheel in the future.

I was also using steel core/plastic covered Soma levers. Both are now broken. Can anyone suggest some better ones?

Thanks.

I rarely have a problem with this...
Powder, a little air in the tube, tube in tire, start with one bead and the valve stem set.
Usually people can get the second bead most of the way on, but there is that final
stretch of a few inches on the 2nd bead that they cannot get over.
Set the tire lever so that you can apply pressure to the bead,
and pinch the beads together all the way around the tire.
As you do this the bead gets pulled into the center deeper portion of the rim,
and off of the shelf that makes up part of the hook bead by the tension of the lever.
This gives you more "slack", kinda like the installation of a UST tire.
As you pinch you will feel the lever loosen, but you must keep a little tension on it until you get back to the gap.
Usually you can just pull it over with a thumb after that, or hold the bead and run the tire lever towards it.
The most difficult rim/tire combinations around are at least made manageable with this trick.

Okay, I'm about to go insane mounting a Continental Gator Skin to a Campagnolo Strada rim.

Same problem here, except with Campy Atlantas. Broken nail, bleeding fingers, lots of swearing. I tried baby powder on one rim, 409 on the other. Finally mounted both tires WITH someone helping, but tubes pinched somehow. My Park levers held up, though.

An entire build is on pause right now because I'm too frustrated with these rims/tires. I just made a few large orders, so I don't want to spring for a new tool.

The most difficult rim/tire combinations around are at least made manageable with this trick.

I'm a little confused as to how this would work... My gap is usually about the last six inches, and the bead has about 1.5cm of rim to be hauled over. Maybe I don't fully understand this method?

Absolutely! I've got a wheelset I can't even use because they have Armadillos on them, and I can't get them off. I bent a metal tire iron trying, and the none of my various plastic ones can even get under the bead.

I've been careful with a flat-bladed screwdriver before (maybe put a cloth between the screwdriver and the rim). Good chance you'll pop the tube, but it's better than either taking a bolt cutter to the tire or mothballing the rims.

Can't do pics now but that sounds right.
Tire bead is smaller than the rim, it needs space in order to come over the edge.
If the bead is seated on the shelf, it won't go.
Pulling the bead into the spoke well around the tire while adding pressure to the lever will give you enough room to finish.
Look up a tutorial on UST tires and they may show pics of the same theory, just can't use levers on UST. The UST rim has a dramatic shelf and well, but the same technique works on regular rims/tires.

As for Armadillos, these are very easy to put on/remove....
No tools required usually.

The reverse of this technique works well too.

Same problem here, except with Campy Atlantas. Broken nail, bleeding fingers, lots of swearing. I tried baby powder on one rim, 409 on the other. Finally mounted both tires WITH someone helping, but tubes pinched somehow. My Park levers held up, though.

An entire build is on pause right now because I'm too frustrated with these rims/tires. I just made a few large orders, so I don't want to spring for a new tool.

Wow, and I thought I was having a rough time with my tire mounting. Jeez, sorry to hear a build is on hold...

Thankfully this tire is on my "nice weather bike" and it isn't going to be nice for around another two months. I'm going to order some new tire levers today. The only thing that really bugs me is pinching a brand new tube.

Either way, I feel much better that I'm not the only person with mounting issues. I've mounted a lot of tires, but these won't go. As for tips, yeah, laying the tires out in the summer sun has helped me in the past.

Pulling the bead into the spoke well around the tire while adding pressure to the lever will give you enough room to finish.

Okay, now I can visualize it... I didn't know that the spoke well area around the rim was slightly recessed, so that definitely makes sense now. Thanks!

Wow, and I thought I was having a rough time with my tire mounting. Jeez, sorry to hear a build is on hold...

Thankfully this tire is on my "nice weather bike" and it isn't going to be nice for around another two months. I'm going to order some new tire levers today. The only thing that really bugs me is pinching a brand new tube.

Either way, I feel much better that I'm not the only person with mounting issues. I've mounted a lot of tires, but these won't go. As for tips, yeah, laying the tires out in the summer sun has helped me in the past.

My frustration evaporated when I brought everything to the LBS... they took care of it and made it look like I've never touched a tire before! So I avoided more wrestling until next time.

-- A good winter version of the summer sun is laying your tires next to those ancient exposed water heaters, if you have them.

Steel core tire levers. Performance sells them, which is where I got mine. I carry 3 of them, incl on rides with climbs, despite their weight, as they are that valuable to me.

What I've also learned is to use the smallest tube you can for a given tire & rim. I was using 700x28 continental gatorskins with 700x28-32 tubes on Alex rims which have a 14mm internal width as stated by the sticker on the rims. The 28-32 tubes were difficult to cram into the tire and it was easy to pinch flat them if they did get wedged between tire and rim. I then used 700x20-25 tubes. Went in with ease, almost never pinch flat them when mounting- with my steel core levers :).

I've worked the last two Kona Ironman's (among a bunch of other events) with the same two plastic Koolstop levers and they are still going strong...
Granted we do lots of tubulars, but you get the picture...

I've broken six Koolstop levers, so I'm never using them again.

I've broken six Koolstop levers, so I'm never using them again.

You broke six of these? - http://aebike.com/page.cfm?action=details&PageID=30&SKU=TL4022

Or six of these? - http://www.lickbike.com/productpage.asp?PART_NUM_SUB='1609-00'

I've never heard of a bead jack breaking. Six of them is a $60 expense. I see why you ended up at the LBS.

Ftr I'm talking about the second ones, 3 little black ones that come in the red holder.

I like them because they are so thin the tires come off easier. Spoke bed is key, if the spoke bed is only 2mm deeper on a 622/700c rim, this translates to around a 19mm smaller circumference around the whole wheel..

We were not suggesting the use of those. We were suggesting the first one. Or the VAR which operates on the same principle. Now to see what the other poster has to say...

Glad the others work for you Hawaiiwrench.

What are your tips and tricks when mounting stubborn tires? KY jelly?

In a word .... heat. If you can leave the tire out in the hot sun, it will help a lot. Short of that, I've used a hair dryer to get the tire more flexible.

... Brad

We were not suggesting the use of those. We were suggesting the first one. Or the VAR which operates on the same principle. Now to see what the other poster has to say...

Glad the others work for you Hawaiiwrench.


Understood and thanks.
I am quite the oddball with my lever choice i am sure, but for me the thinness(as this means more bead to work with) outweighs the well known lack of strength for these levers.
I never did like that crazy lever-contraption thing either, never got used to it and it seems too bulky as well.
To each their own i guess...:p

Question though, do you pull the bead into the spoke-well when using that tool?
One of the things i do not like about it is that it rests on the opposite side of the rim, taking up space. If the far bead is seated somewhat, the bead you're working on falls into the deeper part of the rim quite easily.

When you inflate the tire, if you got it on and seated, the bead will find it's proper location. I always inflate the tire part-way and check the bead. If all's well, I proceed and bring the tire up to full pressure.

I don't have x-ray vision to see inside the rim with a tire on it. But I'm pretty confident the bead is where it should be. Lordy! This is changing a tire 101. It's not rocket-science. The VAR tool works very nicely. I'm hearing the Kool Stop, that works using the same general principle, does also. They fit in one's bag on the bike. Or in the pocket.

When I saw these offered here and there, I thought it was another gimmick that wouldn't work. I was wrong. These really will pull up and mount the meanest tire you've got:

http://cgi.ebay.com/VAR-Super-Tyre-Tire-Tool-New_W0QQitemZ310113630676QQihZ021QQcategoryZ27953QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

Hunt around for a good price. They seem to sell out quickly.

I had some of those years ago. Unfortunately, I broke them. They never really worked for me. Glad you had better luck with them.

When you inflate the tire, if you got it on and seated, the bead will find it's proper location. I always inflate the tire part-way and check the bead. If all's well, I proceed and bring the tire up to full pressure.

I don't have x-ray vision to see inside the rim with a tire on it. But I'm pretty confident the bead is where it should be. Lordy! This is changing a tire 101. It's not rocket-science. The VAR tool works very nicely. I'm hearing the Kool Stop, that works using the same general principle, does also. They fit in one's bag on the bike. Or in the pocket.


My point is i do not want the bead i'm working on seated and the other one should be. On a road tire, they are so narrow that it seems the tool would push the opposite bead in the way just a little...

Rocket science, no. Most common bicycle repair hands down however, and one where even avid cyclists are pretty inefficient compared to the pros.

As for size, that tool is as big as my pump...

I like the heat idea, and I will probably heat the tire up next time when I mount new tire at home. The only problem with heat is that you can't take a clothes dryer with you on a ride. I still think that the VAR tool is the way to go for take alone. Too bad the only place that sale this tool is ebay.

I was having a bit of trouble mounting a Zaffiro Pro. Tried what I normally try which is just pushing with my thumbs. That didn't work so I came here. After taking an hour break to rest the thumbs, I heated up the tire with a blow dryer on high for about a minute, squirted some baby powder in the crack and pushed with all my thumbs' might. They popped in with a satisfying clump. Thanks bike forums.

I rarely have a problem with this...
Powder, a little air in the tube, tube in tire, start with one bead and the valve stem set.
Usually people can get the second bead most of the way on, but there is that final
stretch of a few inches on the 2nd bead that they cannot get over.
Set the tire lever so that you can apply pressure to the bead,
and pinch the beads together all the way around the tire.
As you do this the bead gets pulled into the center deeper portion of the rim,
and off of the shelf that makes up part of the hook bead by the tension of the lever.
This gives you more "slack", kinda like the installation of a UST tire.
As you pinch you will feel the lever loosen, but you must keep a little tension on it until you get back to the gap.
Usually you can just pull it over with a thumb after that, or hold the bead and run the tire lever towards it.
The most difficult rim/tire combinations around are at least made manageable with this trick.

That's the way you do it...

It helps if you use the ground as a "third hand" in keeping the entire circumference of the tire's fully-mounted side of the bead centered in the wheel's channel... That bead will always want to move out toward the rim again as you work your way around the un-mounted side. It's a painstaking process, but not slow... Harder to write a description than it is to do.

This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeeOhkug0yg) video's pretty helpful. I've found his technique of stuffing the tube into the half-seated tire a lot easier. I don't inflate the tube at all, either.

However, sometimes I still have to use a lever. Any lever works. Here's what I do, it works pretty smoothly every time:

I've found that dealing with the last bit of seating the second bead onto the rim is easiest with a lever turned upside down: flip the lever so it's top is facing the axle of the wheel, then slip it under the remaining unseated bead of the tire. Use the edge of the lever to push past the tube and wedge it against the rim of the wheel, on the bead. This gives you plenty of leverage to pop that last bit of tire onto the rim. This never fails, and there's no risk of breaking your levers, either.

I've never tried the Kool Stop one. Appears to be the same principle. Nice.

I just used the Kool Stop bead jack on a new set of Schwalbe Marathon Plus tires and it made the job a lot easier IMO. A useful item for mounting tight tires.

Yep - I'm going to buy out the stock of them. Then, in 20 years, I'll seem 'em as antiques. Why? Because to many macho idealists swear, sight unseen, that they don't work as well as Goober's GIANT thumbs.

If you are looking for a helpful tool - that is a good choice. If not - go to Goober's Thumb-Karate Academy. Hai Ya!

Yep - I'm going to buy out the stock of them. Then, in 20 years, I'll seem 'em as antiques. Why? Because to many macho idealists swear, sight unseen, that they don't work as well as Goober's GIANT thumbs.

If you are looking for a helpful tool - that is a good choice. If not - go to Goober's Thumb-Karate Academy. Hai Ya!

Or...you can work as a carpenter for your entire adult life and develop a grip of iron. ;)

I have yet to meet a compatible tire/rim combo that my hand strength and technique can't handle 99% of the time. For the other 1%...that's what steel Eldi levers are for.

Has anyone tried the Park Tool TL-10 shop tire tool?
http://www.parktool.com/products/detail.asp?cat=17&item=TL-10