Foo - The shiznit has teh fan in my family

First of all I wasn't exactly sure where to post this but I decided this was the best place. It's more of a rant on my part so bare with me if you will.....

I had a call today from my somewhat estranged father who lives in California. He was frantic and built up the hysteria 'til he finally broke down nearly in tears and asked me for money. I know it was painful for him.
So I ask.....What happened? He tells me his car broke down on his way to work (which he just started last week). He has a 99 Monte Carlo with 43,000 miles on it and now it's got a blown head gasket and the tranny chewed itself up. $2500 he tells me.....
He was in real estate but the market dropped out and being commission with no funds coming in he than ran up huge amounts of credit card debt to live off of and present the homes he was trying to sell plus a second mortgage to cover the cards..... He hasn't sold a house in 1.5 years.
Meanwhile his new house dropped in value so he is making payments on a house that's not worth as much as he owes. He went to school for a bit and got certified to do commercial real estate loans which again pays commission. He says he has deals on the books but his track record says otherwise.

I work for a non-profit organization and therefore make virtually no profit from my work other than feeling good at the end of the day and being able to keep food on the table, pay my bills and have a bit left over for my bike obsession. I don't have much in savings but I do put the max in my matched 403(b) at work so I am working towards retirement in another 40 years or so.....
I'm also a car free individual and I seriously despise the situation he has gotten himself into. He drives 75 miles a day round trip to work. He lives in a gated community and the nearest bus stop is an hours walk away. Same with the store....I purposely hunted for a long while 'til I found a house within blocks of work and a short jaunt down the MUP to my nearest store....I've never lived more than 15 miles from work which has saved my ass many a time.

In short I'm pissed. I'm youngish and just getting started in life as a responsible contributing member of society. I have no debt, kids, and good health. It pains me to think of what is ahead. His savings and retirement are gone. He is in poor health. One very large part of me wants to tell him to piss off because of a whole spectrum of things he has caused to happen to me over the years. However, he is my father so I have to do what I can to make this work. It's just that what he has gotten himself into makes my blood boil on so many different levels....

Anyone believe in synchronicity? It strikes me that yesterday I decided I would sell off a portion of my collection for no apparent reason. It just so happens my W-2 showed up today 10 minutes after my call from my pops. I just got paid 2 days ago too. I think I may be able to bail him out....I really wanted a custom made for me lugged steel frame though! Damn!:cry:

The unselfish higher ground sucks.....:(

I think a lot of people are going to see situations like this. It will be interesting to see how people react. Will we have large roaming mobs of homeless retirees? Will people step up and take care of their extended families, friends and neighbors? I sure hope so....Either way. The floor is dropping from beneath our feet. It's gonna be a wild ride!

sorry you're going through this... in my case when there was no money, i was sent to an orphanage (at the age of 9)

trying to maintain a house with upside-down payments is ludicrous - tell him to foreclose

if someone is one car repair away from financial disaster that should tell you something?

you could always take him in temporarily?

Tough call...but he is your dad. You've already got bikes that will work for you. I'd lend it to him but possibly give him a stern lecture to find work that is closer and/or sell his house and move to somewhere smaller that he can afford better.

He lives 2 states away......Lending him a bike is out of the question. He's banking on the housing market swinging up so he can sell his house and get out from under it but that's not a bet I'd be willing to make....In his area anyways.

Take this for what it's worth: random advice from an internet forum.

If it were me...I'd help him. Blood is thicker than water and all that, and we're talking about the man that at least in part raised you from the beginning of your life. I'd also be talking to him about the wise choices you've made for your own life and about what he can do to get himself out of the situation he's in.

re: the money...make it a gift, not a loan. No need to complicate things and tie yourself to someone you don't wish to be tied to, but it can also be let known that it is all you can afford to do and that there won't be any more.

I hope your Dad gets back on his feet.

re: the money...make it a gift, not a loan.

when it's family it's *always* a gift and never a loan

good advice from other fooster posters here so far!

when it's family it's *always* a gift and never a loan

good advice from other fooster posters here so far!

True....I misspoke, make it a gift, not a loan.

Possibly tell him to get a closer job and you'll give him a bike.

Take this for what it's worth: random advice from an internet forum.

If it were me...I'd help him. Blood is thicker than water and all that, and we're talking about the man that at least in part raised you from the beginning of your life. I'd also be talking to him about the wise choices you've made for your own life and about what he can do to get himself out of the situation he's in.

re: the money...make it a gift, not a loan. No need to complicate things and tie yourself to someone you don't wish to be tied to, but it can also be let known that it is all you can afford to do and that there won't be any more.

I hope your Dad gets back on his feet.

Yes, a gift. Tell him that when he can afford to do so, to pay it forward.

You are fortunate to be in a position to help him, and you are a good man for doing it.

East Hill

With only 43 thousand on the car, the engine may be under warranty. Have him check.

Other than that, I'm sorry to hear about you and your dad's position. It sucks. Stay as upbeat as you can, things will change.

kpug, I would like to commend you for having your life in such good shape at your age.

Thanks all for the helpful advise and kind words......I'll def tell him anything I give him will be a gift.

I just did some checking online and called his local bus company and it's looking grim. Public transportation sucks in so many parts of this country.....To think he can't make a quick trip to the next city over without walking miles and having a kazillion transfers....It's just plain stupidity. He lives right smack dab in the middle of urban sprawl! I guess people in gated communities don't need buses and trains.....

The bit of insight from Linux Author hit the predicament on the head......Paying on an upside down mortgage and a car repair away from living on the streets....It's a tough situation. And stupid!

He lives 2 states away......Lending him a bike is out of the question. He's banking on the housing market swinging up so he can sell his house and get out from under it but that's not a bet I'd be willing to make....In his area anyways.

That won't be happening for a long time.

That won't be happening for a long time.

Agreed....

Good on you on taking care of dad. Perhaps when things calm down a bit the two of you can sit down and figure out a plan that would help his situation. Although a victim of circumstance, he's done good if he has a son like you. :)

I am of two minds (yes that is normal for me) If YOU want to make a gift, do so. But be prepared for more requests. I have one brother that cannot hold a job. He has multiple college degrees and is always coming home to roost and bum. I let him stay at my place ONCE, and made it clear that it was a one time deal. Sorry your dad isn't capable of making sound financial decisions, but is it really your place to bail him out?

Aaron:)

Like the others, I think you should help him out. However, I definitely wouldn't just send checks. The way you describe things, he needs to make some serious lifestyle and attitude adjustments or else he's just going to have the same problems again. I think you should give him the help he needs. Part of that help includes conditions that will get him pointed in the right direction. I hope for the best for the two of you.

p.s. how the heck do you get a blown head gasket and a trashed tranny at 43K miles? I could see one of those things happening out of bad luck, but both?

p.s. how the heck do you get a blown head gasket and a trashed tranny at 43K miles? I could see one of those things happening out of bad luck, but both?

My first thought as well. Both result in an undriveable car so there is really no way to blow a head gasket if the car is sitting from a blown tranny and it is pretty hard to blow a tranny if the car is sitting from a blown head gasket.
With that said.....He is your dad. I am sure he had some part in making you who you are today. Be a good son and help pops out ONCE.

Blown head gasket and junk transmission? It'd be better to sell for parts and buy a beater that costs $2k.

Anything that eats a tranny in 43k miles deserves no place in a poor person's garage.

p.s. how the heck do you get a blown head gasket and a trashed tranny at 43K miles? I could see one of those things happening out of bad luck, but both?

Beat me to it. :lol: Either the car has some serious major issues and needs to go in favor of something not a lemon, or it smells a little funny...

Unless the engine was a rebuild. The tranny would have more miles on it.

Public transportation sucks in so many parts of this country.
That's an understatement.

Concerning the car.....Yes it has 43,000 original miles he bought it new for his wife in '99. It has seen minimal use and basically sat in the garage. He had a '02 Ford F-150 that was nice with leather and back doors he used for transporting potential customers in for work but when the work dried up he sold it.
That being said.....The auto problems sound a bit fishy to me too.....The dealership told him he had oil in the coolant and a somethin' or rather in the tranny was causing havoc. He took it in 'cause of a high pitched noise and crappy shifts. If I were him in that situation I'd probably try to fix it, sell it and buy a $2000 used Camry.

Unless the engine was a rebuild. The tranny would have more miles on it.

True, but mileage goes by the frame and who would drop a high mileage engine/tranny in a low mileage frame unless the first engine went kaput, or a previous owner bought it as a parts car to switch out their junk engine and tranny with a good low mileage one from the car the dad now has. Not too likely, but possible I guess.

Even little ninja 250 engines that have to rev really high all the time make it to 60 to 80k with proper care. But here I am comparing apples (domestic) to oranges (import). :lol: Guess I'm turning into a snob, only bought my car because it has the police package and the engines have been thrashed thoroughly all around the US for decades and have a fairly decent reliability record.

True, but mileage goes by the frame and who would drop a high mileage engine/tranny in a low mileage frame unless the first engine went kaput, or a previous owner bought it as a parts car to switch out their junk engine and tranny with a good low mileage one from the car the dad now has. Not too likely, but possible I guess.

Even little ninja 250 engines that have to rev really high all the time make it to 60 to 80k with proper care. But here I am comparing apples (domestic) to oranges (import). :lol: Guess I'm turning into a snob, only bought my car because it has the police package and the engines have been thrashed thoroughly all around the US for decades and have a fairly decent reliability record.

I only said that because around here, people will sell their car saying it's low mileage but then as a buyer you have to ask "original or rebuild?".

Well I guess for this case it doesn't matter. Seems like it was the original engine that sat. Possible that seals dried up, and loss of oils could have been an issue.

Concerning the car.....Yes it has 43,000 original miles he bought it new for his wife in '99. It has seen minimal use and basically sat in the garage. He had a '02 Ford F-150 that was nice with leather and back doors he used for transporting potential customers in for work but when the work dried up he sold it.
That being said.....The auto problems sound a bit fishy to me too.....The dealership told him he had oil in the coolant and a somethin' or rather in the tranny was causing havoc. He took it in 'cause of a high pitched noise and crappy shifts. If I were him in that situation I'd probably try to fix it, sell it and buy a $2000 used Camry.

Sounds like it's time for a second opinion from an independent mechanic.

Ha ha!! Two women discussing cars and motorcycles.

*nods head*

Yeah we badass. :D

I only said that because around here, people will sell their car saying it's low mileage but then as a buyer you have to ask "original or rebuild?".

Well I guess for this case it doesn't matter. Seems like it was the original engine that sat. Possible that seals dried up, and loss of oisl could have been an issue.

Ok, guess it's different here because most ads have a picture of the odometer and will mention something about being freshly rebuilt if it is.

Ha ha!! Two women discussing cars and motorcycles.

*nods head*

Yeah we badass. :D

That's hot. :tongue:

Ha ha!! Two women discussing cars and motorcycles.

*nods head*

Yeah we badass. :D

:lol: I just can't trust other people about something I spend that large a % of my income on. Same with houses, between the boyfriend and I we could do most of the repair stuff, mainly limited by equipment.

Once we get a garage and attached house I need to learn to do that new yankee workshop kinda stuff. Save a lot on cabinets and have some fun doing it. :D

Even little ninja 250 engines that have to rev really high all the timeAh, you mean the ones that go on the freeway. ;)

I kid because I love.

Well I just sold my first rig towards my dads bailout......:cry:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3459/3249307848_ca741e22e4_b.jpg

This sucks!:mad:

It only sucks short term. You have to look big picture here and keep saying to yourself "this too shall pass."

You are doing the right thing.

Okay, my 2c

I'd never make it a gift, but an interest free loan which he can pay back whenever he is able to. For one, this way he is sure to be careful with it (or more likely). Second, it is bad enough having to ask your kids for a loan, don't make it worse by making it a gift.

Other than that, help him out....it's what family does.

sorry you're going through this...

Sorry but, the father is the one going through the crisis. Whether the son decides to help or not is his choice, but definitely not something he's "going" through IMO.

Sorry but, the father is the one going through the crisis. Whether the son decides to help or not is his choice, but definitely not something he's "going" through IMO.

You've never had to deal with relatives *****ing about their poor choices and expecting you to fix them I see.

You've never had to deal with relatives *****ing about their poor choices and expecting you to fix them I see.

:thumb:

You've never had to deal with relatives *****ing about their poor choices and expecting you to fix them I see.

If you see it that way, that's you're choice. Still, to say that someone who isn't even going through the actual problem is a victim or is going through something is ridiculous. If you feel you're going through something, tell the person no.

How much have your parents done for you? They brought you're whining smelly arse into the world didn't they?

dude, chill.

speak not of what you do not know.

I would not want to be in the position the OP is in.

Currently dealing with a in law who is elderly and not able to take care of themself . Having to help make some life altering decisions for your parents or in laws is tough.

If you see it that way, that's you're choice. Still, to say that someone who isn't even going through the actual problem is a victim or is going through something is ridiculous. If you feel you're going through something, tell the person no.

How much have your parents done for you? They brought you're whining smelly arse into the world didn't they?

If he tells the father no, then he either has to disown him or listen to a constant stream of *****ing. It's not as simple as you think, and your lack of experience is made painfully clear.

What have my parents done for me? They spent 18 years trying to force their religious fundamentalism on me, lied to me (about giving me back over $3k) and various other things. You are the one being a whiny ***** here. Wasting your time trying to shove religion down other people's throats instead of trying to do something more useful, ohh, like design tools to help advance cancer research. :rolleyes:

While the OPs situation is not as bad as being a couple grand from living on the street, the emotional turnoil that comes when a relative tries to latch on like a leech is not something to brush off. You feel a sense of compassion and sorrow, but also very violated to think that they expect you to support their lifestyle with your cash, that you have because you live a MUCH less extravagant lifestyle and have had to save up by pinching pennies in case you end up in a bad place financially. The OP has to decide between helping his father and his own financial security. If he has to sell bikes to pay for it, he's not that far from serious financial trouble himself and that's a HELL of a lot for a parents to ask a kid to do.

OP, make damn sure he gets a second opinion or three on that car. I smell BS.

This is a very tough situation for all involved. I am sure your dad didn't want to come asking for $, and I am sure it is placing a burden on you.

I think it is nice that everyone suggested making it a gift and even nicer that you agreed. However, I wouldn't go so far as to say that there are never loans between blood relatives. Perhaps an interest free loan, ok, but the point is, yes, father and son must work out a mutually agreeable arrangement here. Whether it's a loan or strictly a one-time gift or whatever.

In the real world, people often do not change their ways and there may be needs (and requests for help) again. That is the toughest part, imo - when to say no. And sometimes, at some point you do have to say no - whether to help that person out or to protect yourself.

I wish you luck in reaching a place with your dad that helps you both. This is such a hard time for so many of us. hang in there.

He must have really severely neglected his car to have it get that screwed up that fast. You would have to go out of your way to do that.

But anyway, it's like what my grandpa says about how his family survived the depression. He says that the key was for families and friends to stick together. It's starting to be more and more like that again these days.

then again, that's a lot of miles to drive daily - maybe he just didn't keep up the maintenance well enough. Anyway, that's irrelevant - the important thing is where do they go with the situation now that it exists?

However, he is my father so I have to do what I can to make this work.

You did yourself a favor by deciding to help your father. If you hadn't have helped him, that's a regret you would've held forever after he was gone.

Because you have the means and compassion to help, someone must have raised you right.

I think it is nice that everyone suggested making it a gift and even nicer that you agreed. However, I wouldn't go so far as to say that there are never loans between blood relatives. Perhaps an interest free loan, ok, but the point is, yes, father and son must work out a mutually agreeable arrangement here. Whether it's a loan or strictly a one-time gift or whatever.

I do wish to clarify my suggestion to give a gift rather than a loan.

Give a gift if you can afford it. Of course a loan is in order when there is no duress or the amount is larger than is comfortable for both parties. My point is that the gift is simpler, incurs no bad blood from either party, and can truly be a one time deal rather than an extended ordeal. That is all.

While the OPs situation is not as bad as being a couple grand from living on the street, the emotional turnoil that comes when a relative tries to latch on like a leech is not something to brush off. You feel a sense of compassion and sorrow, but also very violated to think that they expect you to support their lifestyle with your cash, that you have because you live a MUCH less extravagant lifestyle and have had to save up by pinching pennies in case you end up in a bad place financially. The OP has to decide between helping his father and his own financial security. If he has to sell bikes to pay for it, he's not that far from serious financial trouble himself and that's a HELL of a lot for a parents to ask a kid to do.

To a T.....Except the part about my financial situation. Rather than dumping cash in savings I dump my max amount into my 403 (b) which is matched by my employer + a certain percentage. It has consistently had better returns than my savings account even when everybodies 401's hit the basement....It hasn't dropped below 4%! I'm pretty stoked and It'll be a long time before I retire anyways. My lifestyle is so sparse I can handle giving a months wages if need be. It just means no more bike parts and cheaper beer for awhile (I guess I'll have to cut my daily mocha breve' too)!
Culling a few bikes from the herd isn't that big a deal really....I've got somewhere around 15 or so and frames waiting for builds. It just sucks givin' 'em up.

OP, make damn sure he gets a second opinion or three on that car. I smell BS.

The damage was done before he even called me....Stupid move on his part I admit. He dropped it off and said "fix it" without bothering to think about where the cash would come from.




In the real world, people often do not change their ways and there may be needs (and requests for help) again. That is the toughest part, imo - when to say no. And sometimes, at some point you do have to say no - whether to help that person out or to protect yourself.

This is what scares me.....He has no savings, huge debt, no employer based healthcare and a job based on commission.....He's 64 too. :(




The important thing is where do they go with the situation now that it exists?

Yup....It's a life lesson if I've ever seen one. The hard part is figuring out a way that's not insulting to help them see the way to living within their means and not creating unnecessary burdens on people whether that's me or anyone else...


Because you have the means and compassion to help, someone must have raised you right.

Well...It wasn't my dad! He divorced my mother when I was 1 and high tailed it to California when I was 10 after his wifes youngest son moved out....I saw him every other week if I was lucky than a couple times between 10 and 13. I left home at 14 and tried to never look back. That's a whole other story though.....

And about the car...I'm thinking minimal use for the last 10 years and the fact that's it's a 90's Chevy front wheel drive car is the problem. The trucks and RWD cars were great! But those stinkin' FWD contraptions sucked!

And thanks again everyone for your insight and kind words.

well someone raised you right if you are still willing to help him out.:)

wordbiker - I totally hear you - and i agree a gift is the best way when possible. I think the loan comes in - as you said- if a gift is not feasible, but also to foster responsibility. I see Parents spoiling their kids with financial gifts all the time - manna from heaven. Help is one thing, but there is a limit.

This is a different story, of course, but as far as drawing the line and making it clear that changes need to be made, that might be best served with some compassionate but straight talk (eg, Dad I will help you this time but you need to make some changes to get your life in order, etc). But this isn't so easy with someone in their 60s....it would take an extraordinary person to embrace major change at that age. And while it is understandable and laudable for a child to want to help out their parents it is arguably not their role to teach them responsibility - especially not with the added stress of taking on financial burdens in the bargain.

Having said that, it's an emotionally charged issue and never an easy one. I'm going through my own eldercare/parental crisis right now and I suspect most of us will at some point. This one definitely sounds delicate. Perhaps with a little help, your Dad can find it in himself to turn things around, eat his losses and start fresh.

At the very least, I hope he sees what a good son he has. Money problems aside that is more than many 64 year olds can say.

He must have really severely neglected his car to have it get that screwed up that fast. You would have to go out of your way to do that.

But anyway, it's like what my grandpa says about how his family survived the depression. He says that the key was for families and friends to stick together. It's starting to be more and more like that again these days.

Yup and people either were responsible or things would happen. My grandfather loved to tell the story about a certain neighbor that when on assistance would take the money for food and go out *****-tonking or gambling. The neighbors got tired of seeing his wife and children doing without, so they took the wheels off his car and chained them to a tree to keep him at home and from spending the family's food budget.

We live on what is left of my wife's family farm,(along with 3 sets of cousins and others) some of us take care of the land and look out for others, there are certain parties out here that only look out for themselves and take advantage of others largess. Eventually the gravy train will stop.

Aaron:)

The damage was done before he even called me....Stupid move on his part I admit. He dropped it off and said "fix it" without bothering to think about where the cash would come from.

And it's also a great example of why he's in deep financial poo, if you want to remind him. :( I have a bad feeling my parents would be begging me for money right now too if my father hadn't given up his construction company to get a state job. He did it for the health insurance (my mother should be on disability but never worked enough) but it ended up saving his butt in this new economy.

If he tells the father no, then he either has to disown him or listen to a constant stream of *****ing. It's not as simple as you think, and your lack of experience is made painfully clear.

What have my parents done for me? They spent 18 years trying to force their religious fundamentalism on me, lied to me (about giving me back over $3k) and various other things.

Gratitude: an ideal of the past. I almost pity you for having that as the only remembrance of what your parents have done for you. My father let his best friend borrow 5000 almost 20 years ago, the guy still hasn't paid him back, he lives off paycheck to paycheck never could. But my dad never let that ruin their friendship. Money is money, there is always more of it to be had. You only have one family, it is a much higher treasure than a piece of paper.

You are the one being a whiny ***** here. Wasting your time trying to shove religion down other people's throats instead of trying to do something more useful, ohh, like design tools to help advance cancer research. :rolleyes:
I'm not whining at all, and you come across like a spoiled brat; daily. It reeks from your posts. Just because you're ideals differ from mine doesn't make mine useless, it just makes you ignorant.

While the OPs situation is not as bad as being a couple grand from living on the street, the emotional turnoil that comes when a relative tries to latch on like a leech is not something to brush off. You feel a sense of compassion and sorrow, but also very violated to think that they expect you to support their lifestyle with your cash, that you have because you live a MUCH less extravagant lifestyle and have had to save up by pinching pennies in case you end up in a bad place financially. The OP has to decide between helping his father and his own financial security. If he has to sell bikes to pay for it, he's not that far from serious financial trouble himself and that's a HELL of a lot for a parents to ask a kid to do.

I can understand that and from my (obvious) lack of experience I'm sure it is a sucky situation. Caught between helping and being hated or estranged from his father for not helping. Sure tough situation. My entire point in the beginning was to point out that the father is going through a much rougher situation, he has no way to get to work.