"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - Race tires

So this probably the millionth thread on this topic, but with the race season only a few weeks away it seems appropriate to bring this up.

What is the best bang for the buck race tire?

I think I will either be racing on Gommitalia or Michelin Pro3 Race...

Why don't you try the Deda RS Corsa's out for me.

Continental Sprinter Gatorskins - great for training AND racing.

So this probably the millionth thread on this topic, but with the race season only a few weeks away it seems appropriate to bring this up.

What is the best bang for the buck race tire?

I think I will either be racing on Gommitalia or Michelin Pro3 Race...

Bontrager RXLPro 23 w/latex tubes. Seriously.

You're welcome :)

Continental Sprinter Gatorskins - great for training AND racing.

Life is too short to ride slow tires...even for training ;)

I don't think he's on tubulars. Myself, I'd do the Pro Race 3's, though in saying it, I recently got a good deal on Hutchinson Fusion Comp tires, so I'll probably give them a try when my PR2s wear out.

Michelins with Latex tubes for me.

I think I should have rephrased the question as to the best bang for buck clincher race tires...

I thinks i'm going to have to try a few out until I find the one that suits me best.

Conti Attack/Force - latex tubes on the TT bike; supersonics on the road bike.

Michelins from PBK then.

Schwalbe Ultremo

I can't believe GP4000S hasn't been mentioned yet. It's cheap from PBK (under $30), lowest rolling resistance of any tire in the latest test, great puncture protection, wears well, light weight. What more could you ask for?

I can't believe GP4000S hasn't been mentioned yet. It's cheap from PBK (under $30), lowest rolling resistance of any tire in the latest test, great puncture protection, wears well, light weight. What more could you ask for?

Who's test?

In any case, trust me, 4000S's are NOT lower Crr than the tires I recommended above...

You might as well ask "what's the best brand of beer?" or "who's the hottest supermodel?"

Plenty of good tires out there. Many of them have been mentioned in this thread.

Does anyone have a link to the latest rolling resistance test. The only one I could find was pretty old.

You might as well ask "what's the best brand of beer?" or "who's the hottest supermodel?"

Plenty of good tires out there. Many of them have been mentioned in this thread.

Very true, I just wanted some different opinions before i buy my race tires....

michelin pro race
or
gatorskins-flat aversion

I can't believe GP4000S hasn't been mentioned yet. It's cheap from PBK (under $30), lowest rolling resistance of any tire in the latest test, great puncture protection, wears well, light weight. What more could you ask for?

Incorrect


http://www.biketechreview.com/tires/images/AFM_tire_testing_rev8.pdf

Schwalbe Ultremo

+1 I'm seriously thinking of going back to these puppies. I loved them.

No Open Corsa love? Those have been my race tire of choice, tubular or clincher.

Incorrect


http://www.biketechreview.com/tires/images/AFM_tire_testing_rev8.pdf

What's funny about this is it completely turns on it's head the thought that tubulars were generally slower than clinchers. The top four tires in efficiency are all tubulars. Turns out that you just need to glue them on properly.

In mounting my tubulars, I too noticed that, far more important than lots of coats of glue on the rim and waiting a full day between coats, is using lots of glue on the base tape to ensure that the cotton is fully saturated. Glue holds in shear, so the goal is to produce the thinnest possible layer of glue while having the interface be fully wetted. The base tape has a far rougher surface than the rim, so it makes sense to use more glue on the base tape than the rim.

One coat on the rim, two coats on the base tape while the rim coat is drying, then one more layer on the rim. Mount the tire right after the second coat on the rim. Tires are solid and were mounted in an hour, both wheels.

Me, I like PR's. They have a nice bubbly cross section, wear well and stick to pavement.

Schwalbe Ultremo


I'm riding on schwalbe durano's for training, they're the best combination of ride quality and durability I've found in a tire, and they mount onto DT Swiss R1.1 rims without bloodying my knuckles.

If the ultremo's are as good but even grippier, than they've got to be a big winner in my book. I'll trade some new still folded P3Rs for them if anyone is down with it.

No one is going to mention the Vittoria Open Corsa Evo CX?

I was under the impression they are among the best race clinchers out there.

Incorrect


http://www.biketechreview.com/tires/images/AFM_tire_testing_rev8.pdf

thats a terrible test. 120 PSI for all tires regardless of recommended tire pressure.

thats a terrible test. 120 PSI for all tires regardless of recommended tire pressure.

Sigh....

No one is going to mention the Vittoria Open Corsa Evo CX?

I was under the impression they are among the best race clinchers out there.

I second that statement.

with a good latex tube they are hard to beat.

veloflex pave/record/carbons with a latex tube as well.

I'll get ultremo's for my netx set of tyres, allround everyday tyres. heard nothing but good stuff about them.

pro race 3 seem to be a sideway's step from pro race 2, not much has changed in the way of feel, but they puncture and cut about 5 times as fast.

Who's test?

In any case, trust me, 4000S's are NOT lower Crr than the tires I recommended above...

The test I had in mind was older than I thought it was. It's from 9/2007. It's linked from the Continental website, but it wasn't sponsored or affiliated with them. It was by a German magazine.

http://www.conti-online.com/generator/www/de/en/continental/bicycle/general/downloads/download/tourtest_gp4000s_en.pdf

Take it for what you will, but the GP4000S blew the other tires away. I read the entire thing and it seemed pretty well done and scientific.

The test I had in mind was older than I thought it was. It's from 9/2007. It's linked from the Continental website, but it wasn't sponsored or affiliated with them. It was by a German magazine.

http://www.conti-online.com/generator/www/de/en/continental/bicycle/general/downloads/download/tourtest_gp4000s_en.pdf

Take it for what you will, but the GP4000S blew the other tires away. I read the entire thing and it seemed pretty well done and scientific.

You have got to be kidding me. In terms of "scientific", this test is right in between high school science project and drunken dorm party dare. Notice there is a significant bias toward Continental tires. Comments in the "performance in border areas" are uniformly good for Continental and extremely critical of most other tire brands. Big surprise. :rolleyes:

Pro Race 3. In my opinion, the fastest clincher tire out there. 'Nuff said.

Pro Race 3. In my opinion, the fastest clincher tire out there. 'Nuff said.

Pro 3's aren't even the fastest Michelins out there.

I'm using Pro 2 Lights with latex tubes. I'll probably end up getting some Pro 3 Lights after I've heard some reviews/ test results.

You have got to be kidding me. In terms of "scientific", this test is right in between high school science project and drunken dorm party dare. Notice there is a significant bias toward Continental tires. Comments in the "performance in border areas" are uniformly good for Continental and extremely critical of most other tire brands. Big surprise. :rolleyes:

Are you saying Germans in general are in Continental's pocket?

The magazine wasn't commissioned by Continental or endorsed by them. They probably have advertising in there, but I would imagine those other companies do too. They gave the Schwalbe Ultremo the 2nd place in the test, and everyone seems to like that. They wrote good things about its handling. I'm sure that was just to make it look legit though.

Obviously it's not peer-reviewed journal material, but I thought it was pretty decent. But I'm not a scientist, I'm just an engineer. I believe whatever the spec sheet tells me.

Are you saying Germans in general are in Continental's pocket?

The magazine wasn't commissioned by Continental or endorsed by them. They probably have advertising in there, but I would imagine those other companies do too.

Obviously it's not peer-reviewed journal material, but I thought it was pretty decent. But I'm not a scientist, I'm just an engineer. I believe whatever the spec sheet tells me.

No, I'm saying that the rag's article is like Bicycling Magazine's "reviews", but with the added twist of a "comparison" to other brands. It seems, from reading the subjective comments, that Continental was the highest bidder.

As to the testing, because all the testing was done at the Continental facilities, and certainly with "help" from Continental engineers in optimizing their tires for their tests, it might appear that the test is a bit rigged. As an engineer, you should know that numbers from a test for which you know nothing about how it was performed are essentially meaningless.

And I'll bet the Germans tend to stick together too.

Are you saying Germans in general are in Continental's pocket?

The magazine wasn't commissioned by Continental or endorsed by them. They probably have advertising in there, but I would imagine those other companies do too. They gave the Schwalbe Ultremo the 2nd place in the test , and everyone seems to like that. They wrote good things about its handling. I'm sure that was just to make it look legit though.

Obviously it's not peer-reviewed journal material, but I thought it was pretty decent. But I'm not a scientist, I'm just an engineer. I believe whatever the spec sheet tells me.

Right...and what nationality is Schwalbe again?...:rolleyes:

Right...and what nationality is Schwalbe again?...:rolleyes:

Ohh... Good catch.

Ohh... Good catch.

Here's another good one (which I must admit I didn't find)...does anyone wonder why the Vittoria Open Corsa CX has such poor rolling resistance in that test? Especially considering it's much thinner casing, and the fact that it goes against the findings of multiple other testing (including Tour's own previous testing)?

Zoom in on the picture of the tire in the summary and see if you can make out the size...looks to me like they were testing the 20C version instead of the 23...Doh! After seeing that....

I have to admit, the "wet" testing rig looks like it would be a blast! I'm not so sure I'd put much stock in the "results" though.:rolleyes:

Now...I'm not saying that a 4000S is not a good tire. It is. In fact, I just wore one out that I'm pretty sure I NEVER had a puncture with, and they actually roll fairly well (about similar to Pro2Race). But, by no means are they "be all - end all" clincher race tires.

maxxis courchevels? roll nice, zero failures for me, no drama

The Challenge Criterium showed well also. I kind of want to give those a whirl.

I have had Maxxis courchevels and they are really good, but not the best around. Their handling abilities are fine and I would say they feel about as fast as the GP4000, but have you seen how expensive those things are now :eek: Might as well get the much cheaper GP4000 from PBK for less than half the price and they ride about the same.

Talking of Challenge Criteriums... I really like mine. We get them as a team deal. They are similar to some Gommitalia, Deda and Torelli models. They probably mostly come out of the same factory in Thailand. Very good.

Talking of Challenge Criteriums... I really like mine. We get them as a team deal. They are similar to some Gommitalia, Deda and Torelli models. They probably mostly come out of the same factory in Thailand. Very good.

According to their propoganda, I mean marketing, it sounds like Pirelli bought Clement tires and then moved all the machines to Thailand to build tires. Obviously, Clement was well respected, and it seems that Challenge is doing a good job as well. Their Criterium Open Tubular (clincher) has a 300 tpi carcass, which should ride pretty nice. Their 'trainer' tire has a 240 tpi carcass, about twice the thread density as, say, a P2R.

I like the Vittoria Open Corsa ride, but I could hardly get a single outing on them without a flat. The Challenge tires all have a 'puncture protection system' layer. Any input on the flats with these tires?

http://www.challengetech.it/

When I raced clinchers last (Aug 2008) I used Michelin Krylions. They give up little in weight, corner fine, and are durable enough that I can ride around a football stadium's parking lot (i.e. lots of glass) and not worry about flats. I'd much rather carry an extra 20 or 40 grams on my tires than worry about flatting.

cdr

I just finished proto testing the NEW Maxxis Courcheval 3C, which now has some sort of puncture resistant strip. Really, really excellent tire. Feels just as good as a GP4000 or the PR2's I used to race, and I had ZERO flats in about 2000mi of training+racing time. The rear tire gave out at about 2100, the front would still be going strong if I hadn't replaced it. Maxxis told me to ride them into the ground and it took a lot longer than I thought it would.

They should be available this spring, I think they were going into production as soon as we sent our reviews back.

I ride Conti GP 4000, just starting out in racing and my LBS recommended Veloflex Blacks - 190 grams each. Anybody have any experience with these tires?

Pro Race 3. In my opinion, the fastest clincher tire out there. 'Nuff said.

And slick as dog poo in fast crit corners. They came out with a version with "added grip" to correct the issue but ill pass.

Pro 3's.

What's funny about this is it completely turns on it's head the thought that tubulars were generally slower than clinchers. The top four tires in efficiency are all tubulars. Turns out that you just need to glue them on properly.

In mounting my tubulars, I too noticed that, far more important than lots of coats of glue on the rim and waiting a full day between coats, is using lots of glue on the base tape to ensure that the cotton is fully saturated. Glue holds in shear, so the goal is to produce the thinnest possible layer of glue while having the interface be fully wetted. The base tape has a far rougher surface than the rim, so it makes sense to use more glue on the base tape than the rim.

One coat on the rim, two coats on the base tape while the rim coat is drying, then one more layer on the rim. Mount the tire right after the second coat on the rim. Tires are solid and were mounted in an hour, both wheels.

Who ever told you to do that ??:crash:

You might as well ask "what's the best brand of beer?" or "who's the hottest supermodel?"

Plenty of good tires out there. Many of them have been mentioned in this thread.

Well ?? I'm always open to new ideas :)

According to their propoganda, I mean marketing, it sounds like Pirelli bought Clement tires and then moved all the machines to Thailand to build tires. Obviously, Clement was well respected, and it seems that Challenge is doing a good job as well. Their Criterium Open Tubular (clincher) has a 300 tpi carcass, which should ride pretty nice. Their 'trainer' tire has a 240 tpi carcass, about twice the thread density as, say, a P2R.

I like the Vittoria Open Corsa ride, but I could hardly get a single outing on them without a flat. The Challenge tires all have a 'puncture protection system' layer. Any input on the flats with these tires?

http://www.challengetech.it/

I think the factory makes tyres for other operations too, not just Challenge.

As for punctures, all I can say is that I haven't ever punctured with them. I took them off for winter riding, but I had 1000 miles plus on them, including some commuting miles. The rears wear a lot faster than the front. I'd buy three! Also, they are supple and give good grip. Perfect for racing....