mrbike27
02-04-09, 05:13 PM
they are the most intelligent folks there is. There wealthy beyond belief. Live simply simple and drive buggies and bicycles. Yes some use electricity but most live off the grid. Why cant we live like them?
Living Car Free - i love the amish
Bikeforums.net is a forum about nothing but bikes. Our community can help you find information about hard-to-find and localized information like bicycle tours, specialties like where in your area to have your recumbent bike serviced, or what are the best bicycle tires and seats for the activities you use your bike for.View Full Version : i love the amish
wahoonc
02-04-09, 05:42 PM
they are the most intelligent folks there is. There wealthy beyond belief. Live simply simple and drive buggies and bicycles. Yes some use electricity but most live off the grid. Why cant we live like them?
Not enough land space...We used to live that way over a century ago.
Aaron:)
Not enough land space...We used to live that way over a century ago.
Aaron:)
Smallwheels
02-04-09, 08:43 PM
Why cant we live like them?
As society grows and the knowledge of the planet grows there is a need for more specialization. Everyone can't spend their time farming or framing houses and barns. For society to advance in all ways it needs people to learn different skills and improve upon them.
All advancement is not good. Mistakes are made by individuals and groups. If we learn what works and discard what doesn't work, the world will be an even greater place. Unfortunately some entrenched groups refuse to improve because they prefer keeping their grip on the power and money. We all suffer from that greed but eventually society changes as old generations die and new ones come into power.
Lead by example. If enough people like what you are doing and choose to do the same, then you will change the world.
If you want to live like the Amish then go ahead. Follow their example and enjoy it. To your happiness.:beer:
As society grows and the knowledge of the planet grows there is a need for more specialization. Everyone can't spend their time farming or framing houses and barns. For society to advance in all ways it needs people to learn different skills and improve upon them.
All advancement is not good. Mistakes are made by individuals and groups. If we learn what works and discard what doesn't work, the world will be an even greater place. Unfortunately some entrenched groups refuse to improve because they prefer keeping their grip on the power and money. We all suffer from that greed but eventually society changes as old generations die and new ones come into power.
Lead by example. If enough people like what you are doing and choose to do the same, then you will change the world.
If you want to live like the Amish then go ahead. Follow their example and enjoy it. To your happiness.:beer:
PlatyPius
02-04-09, 08:45 PM
Yeah... the good old-fashioned values of incest, shunning, greed.....
FightingPanther
02-04-09, 08:48 PM
i love the idea of farming but not the amount of work required
Nightshade
02-05-09, 11:08 AM
Yeah... the good old-fashioned values of incest, shunning, greed.....
Like our world is so darn perfect. :notamused::mad::notamused:
Like our world is so darn perfect. :notamused::mad::notamused:
PlatyPius
02-05-09, 11:11 AM
Like our world is so darn perfect. :notamused::mad::notamused:
It isn't, but similarly, we shouldn't idealize the Amish or any other culture, really.
Kinda like people who idealize the 50s and want to go back to a "simpler time". Guess they forgot about McCarthyism and back yard bomb shelters and such.
It isn't, but similarly, we shouldn't idealize the Amish or any other culture, really.
Kinda like people who idealize the 50s and want to go back to a "simpler time". Guess they forgot about McCarthyism and back yard bomb shelters and such.
sykerocker
02-05-09, 03:11 PM
mrbike27,
Why can't we be like the Amish? To start, I'm going to assume you're male.
My sister is an MD living around Philadelphia - and, just for the honest about any possible bias, definitely a feminist (not screaming radical, but still pretty militant). The hospital where she used to work served an Amish population.
She really HATED the Amish men. They'd bring in an injured wife, daughter, and the first thing out of their mouths was, "When can she get back to work?" The society is well based on late-19th century values, religious and social. Which means role models are very 19th century. As in, if you're a woman you're going to cook, clean, get pregnant, work the farm. Period. That's the sole role model.
A previous poster mentioned shunning. What that means: At something like 18, a Amish male (I'm not sure if females get the choice, and every article I've read only describes it from the male point of view) gets a year in the outside world, at which point he has to make the choice between either living the rest of his life within the community or completely divorcing himself from it.
If he goes for the ourside world, he's shunned. As in, ignored, not welcome. Completely. From his family. As if, 'dead in a plane crash'. His friends. Ditto.
Oh yeah, the last I heard, Christianity isn't exactly optional. Likewise church attendance.
Yeah, there's a lot about the Amish's way of life to admire, and a lot of practices to emulate. However, I seriously doubt that anyone in this group would survive too long in that community. First off, say goodbye to your on-line time . . . . . . . . . .
Edit: Yeah, this sounds horribly negative. To someone comfortable with this life, it sure isn't. It's a well organized, well thought out society with a lot of positive virtues. However, to someone who rides a bicycle, believes in 21st century social values (ever see an 'outed' gay Amish?), likes coffee houses, folk or rock clubs, etc., this is not a life you're going to enjoy. And if anything, it's probably more severe than most of this groups environmental standards.
Why can't we be like the Amish? To start, I'm going to assume you're male.
My sister is an MD living around Philadelphia - and, just for the honest about any possible bias, definitely a feminist (not screaming radical, but still pretty militant). The hospital where she used to work served an Amish population.
She really HATED the Amish men. They'd bring in an injured wife, daughter, and the first thing out of their mouths was, "When can she get back to work?" The society is well based on late-19th century values, religious and social. Which means role models are very 19th century. As in, if you're a woman you're going to cook, clean, get pregnant, work the farm. Period. That's the sole role model.
A previous poster mentioned shunning. What that means: At something like 18, a Amish male (I'm not sure if females get the choice, and every article I've read only describes it from the male point of view) gets a year in the outside world, at which point he has to make the choice between either living the rest of his life within the community or completely divorcing himself from it.
If he goes for the ourside world, he's shunned. As in, ignored, not welcome. Completely. From his family. As if, 'dead in a plane crash'. His friends. Ditto.
Oh yeah, the last I heard, Christianity isn't exactly optional. Likewise church attendance.
Yeah, there's a lot about the Amish's way of life to admire, and a lot of practices to emulate. However, I seriously doubt that anyone in this group would survive too long in that community. First off, say goodbye to your on-line time . . . . . . . . . .
Edit: Yeah, this sounds horribly negative. To someone comfortable with this life, it sure isn't. It's a well organized, well thought out society with a lot of positive virtues. However, to someone who rides a bicycle, believes in 21st century social values (ever see an 'outed' gay Amish?), likes coffee houses, folk or rock clubs, etc., this is not a life you're going to enjoy. And if anything, it's probably more severe than most of this groups environmental standards.
sykerocker
02-05-09, 06:46 PM
Yeah... the good old-fashioned values of incest, shunning, greed.....
Incest? I seriously doubt it. We're talking a morally conservative, mainline Christian society. I seriously doubt that their attitude towards incest is any different than the rest of ours. If anything, it's probably more strict.
Shunning I already mentioned.
Greed? They're no greedier than anyone else. What they are is harder working and more focused on their work, which is easy not having those little distractions like television, electric lights, etc., etc., etc. You know, up with the sun, out to work, and to bed as night approaches. Just like our ancestors did it in the 1880's.
What I've always found fascinating is that they have a lawyer's ability to stay strictly within the confines of their rules and laws . . . . . . . . . . while working around them all the time.
Earlier this decade, I was the office manager for a local firm who sold and installed drop-in outbuildings and barns on your property. We had them made by a couple of different firms in the York-Lancaster, PA area, as their quality was excellent (I have a 10 x 16 as my wife's garden shed) and their prices undercut everybody else. Including my boss, who shut his own assembly plant down when he realized it was cheaper to haul in trailer loads of sheds 225 miles to our place of business, than to build them 8 miles up the road.
Of course the Amish firms were cheaper. First, you don't worry about wages, at least not in the current definition. The average firm is owned by three or four brothers, with three or four sons each . . . . . ok, there's 16-20 employees who don't have to be paid because this isn't a paying job. It's part of the daily chores, and the profits belong to the four or five families, sorta like commune style. No doubt the company accountant keeps everything clean and legal. Boy, does that keep expenses down.
To order the sheds from them (they'd be custom built to the customer's desires), once the design form was completed, it was faxed to the company. Faxed? Yep. They had one non-family, non-Amish employee, who lived just off the property, had the telephone, fax machine, whatever other electronic bits and bobs that were necessary to run a modern, efficient business. And yes, we'd talk to them on the telephone when necessary.
At one point, shortly before I left, four of the principals of one of the suppliers came down to our store to meet with the boss. No, they didn't come in horse and buggy. They were driven down, Chrysler minivan if my memory is still good. They're not allowed to own or drive cars . . . . . . . there's no law against an occasional ride when the distance deems necessary. And the sheds came in, four to a flatbed semi. Another contracted employee driving.
Incest? I seriously doubt it. We're talking a morally conservative, mainline Christian society. I seriously doubt that their attitude towards incest is any different than the rest of ours. If anything, it's probably more strict.
Shunning I already mentioned.
Greed? They're no greedier than anyone else. What they are is harder working and more focused on their work, which is easy not having those little distractions like television, electric lights, etc., etc., etc. You know, up with the sun, out to work, and to bed as night approaches. Just like our ancestors did it in the 1880's.
What I've always found fascinating is that they have a lawyer's ability to stay strictly within the confines of their rules and laws . . . . . . . . . . while working around them all the time.
Earlier this decade, I was the office manager for a local firm who sold and installed drop-in outbuildings and barns on your property. We had them made by a couple of different firms in the York-Lancaster, PA area, as their quality was excellent (I have a 10 x 16 as my wife's garden shed) and their prices undercut everybody else. Including my boss, who shut his own assembly plant down when he realized it was cheaper to haul in trailer loads of sheds 225 miles to our place of business, than to build them 8 miles up the road.
Of course the Amish firms were cheaper. First, you don't worry about wages, at least not in the current definition. The average firm is owned by three or four brothers, with three or four sons each . . . . . ok, there's 16-20 employees who don't have to be paid because this isn't a paying job. It's part of the daily chores, and the profits belong to the four or five families, sorta like commune style. No doubt the company accountant keeps everything clean and legal. Boy, does that keep expenses down.
To order the sheds from them (they'd be custom built to the customer's desires), once the design form was completed, it was faxed to the company. Faxed? Yep. They had one non-family, non-Amish employee, who lived just off the property, had the telephone, fax machine, whatever other electronic bits and bobs that were necessary to run a modern, efficient business. And yes, we'd talk to them on the telephone when necessary.
At one point, shortly before I left, four of the principals of one of the suppliers came down to our store to meet with the boss. No, they didn't come in horse and buggy. They were driven down, Chrysler minivan if my memory is still good. They're not allowed to own or drive cars . . . . . . . there's no law against an occasional ride when the distance deems necessary. And the sheds came in, four to a flatbed semi. Another contracted employee driving.
PlatyPius
02-05-09, 08:06 PM
Incest? I seriously doubt it. We're talking a morally conservative, mainline Christian society. I seriously doubt that their attitude towards incest is any different than the rest of ours. If anything, it's probably more strict.
Shunning I already mentioned.
Greed? They're no greedier than anyone else. What they are is harder working and more focused on their work, which is easy not having those little distractions like television, electric lights, etc., etc., etc. You know, up with the sun, out to work, and to bed as night approaches. Just like our ancestors did it in the 1880's.
What I've always found fascinating is that they have a lawyer's ability to stay strictly within the confines of their rules and laws . . . . . . . . . . while working around them all the time.
Earlier this decade, I was the office manager for a local firm who sold and installed drop-in outbuildings and barns on your property. We had them made by a couple of different firms in the York-Lancaster, PA area, as their quality was excellent (I have a 10 x 16 as my wife's garden shed) and their prices undercut everybody else. Including my boss, who shut his own assembly plant down when he realized it was cheaper to haul in trailer loads of sheds 225 miles to our place of business, than to build them 8 miles up the road.
Of course the Amish firms were cheaper. First, you don't worry about wages, at least not in the current definition. The average firm is owned by three or four brothers, with three or four sons each . . . . . ok, there's 16-20 employees who don't have to be paid because this isn't a paying job. It's part of the daily chores, and the profits belong to the four or five families, sorta like commune style. No doubt the company accountant keeps everything clean and legal. Boy, does that keep expenses down.
To order the sheds from them (they'd be custom built to the customer's desires), once the design form was completed, it was faxed to the company. Faxed? Yep. They had one non-family, non-Amish employee, who lived just off the property, had the telephone, fax machine, whatever other electronic bits and bobs that were necessary to run a modern, efficient business. And yes, we'd talk to them on the telephone when necessary.
At one point, shortly before I left, four of the principals of one of the suppliers came down to our store to meet with the boss. No, they didn't come in horse and buggy. They were driven down, Chrysler minivan if my memory is still good. They're not allowed to own or drive cars . . . . . . . there's no law against an occasional ride when the distance deems necessary. And the sheds came in, four to a flatbed semi. Another contracted employee driving.
http://www.google.com/search?q=Amish+incest&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
Shunning I already mentioned.
Greed? They're no greedier than anyone else. What they are is harder working and more focused on their work, which is easy not having those little distractions like television, electric lights, etc., etc., etc. You know, up with the sun, out to work, and to bed as night approaches. Just like our ancestors did it in the 1880's.
What I've always found fascinating is that they have a lawyer's ability to stay strictly within the confines of their rules and laws . . . . . . . . . . while working around them all the time.
Earlier this decade, I was the office manager for a local firm who sold and installed drop-in outbuildings and barns on your property. We had them made by a couple of different firms in the York-Lancaster, PA area, as their quality was excellent (I have a 10 x 16 as my wife's garden shed) and their prices undercut everybody else. Including my boss, who shut his own assembly plant down when he realized it was cheaper to haul in trailer loads of sheds 225 miles to our place of business, than to build them 8 miles up the road.
Of course the Amish firms were cheaper. First, you don't worry about wages, at least not in the current definition. The average firm is owned by three or four brothers, with three or four sons each . . . . . ok, there's 16-20 employees who don't have to be paid because this isn't a paying job. It's part of the daily chores, and the profits belong to the four or five families, sorta like commune style. No doubt the company accountant keeps everything clean and legal. Boy, does that keep expenses down.
To order the sheds from them (they'd be custom built to the customer's desires), once the design form was completed, it was faxed to the company. Faxed? Yep. They had one non-family, non-Amish employee, who lived just off the property, had the telephone, fax machine, whatever other electronic bits and bobs that were necessary to run a modern, efficient business. And yes, we'd talk to them on the telephone when necessary.
At one point, shortly before I left, four of the principals of one of the suppliers came down to our store to meet with the boss. No, they didn't come in horse and buggy. They were driven down, Chrysler minivan if my memory is still good. They're not allowed to own or drive cars . . . . . . . there's no law against an occasional ride when the distance deems necessary. And the sheds came in, four to a flatbed semi. Another contracted employee driving.
http://www.google.com/search?q=Amish+incest&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
Elkhound
02-07-09, 10:22 PM
Incest? I seriously doubt it. We're talking a morally conservative, mainline Christian society. I seriously doubt that their attitude towards incest is any different than the rest of ours. If anything, it's probably more strict.
There was a case a few years ago in MN or WI of massive sexual abuse in an Amish community. As all the Amish intermarry, the victims were at least first or second cousins (more than one way) of the perpetrators. And aside from that, due to all the inbreeding many Amish communities have lots of wierd genetic diseases ("Maple Syrup Syndrome" anyone?) cropping up.
There was a case a few years ago in MN or WI of massive sexual abuse in an Amish community. As all the Amish intermarry, the victims were at least first or second cousins (more than one way) of the perpetrators. And aside from that, due to all the inbreeding many Amish communities have lots of wierd genetic diseases ("Maple Syrup Syndrome" anyone?) cropping up.
aMull
02-08-09, 11:46 AM
Meh, they just take it to other extreme. I rather live a more balanced life.
crtreedude
02-08-09, 11:56 AM
Living more simply is a good thing, not sure you have to belong to a community to do so. We live very simply, heck, I even have horses I ride at times for transportation and I will use the transportation that is the cheapest, often that is walking, or a horse, but I like my Mountain Bike a lot. After that, it is a motorcycle or a ATV if going into a farm a long ways away. But for longer trips,well, there is the Isuzu trooper. (we have a business, so there are lots of vehicles around, if the traffic is really bad, I guess I could use the backhoe. :lol: )
There is a balance, joining into the whole ball of wax might not be necessary, nor a good idea.
There is a balance, joining into the whole ball of wax might not be necessary, nor a good idea.
GodsBassist
02-08-09, 12:58 PM
Living more simply is a good thing, not sure you have to belong to a community to do so. We live very simply, heck, I even have horses I ride at times for transportation and I will use the transportation that is the cheapest, often that is walking, or a horse, but I like my Mountain Bike a lot. After that, it is a motorcycle or a ATV if going into a farm a long ways away. But for longer trips,well, there is the Isuzu trooper. (we have a business, so there are lots of vehicles around, if the traffic is really bad, I guess I could use the backhoe. :lol: )
There is a balance, joining into the whole ball of wax might not be necessary, nor a good idea.
I can agree here wholeheartedly. The simple lifestyle (which the OP was referring to, I believe) is very cool. Put in a hard day's work for a good meal and enjoy the small things in life more, away from a consumerist culture that relies on what's new or in. In fact I think that's what some people are looking for when they move away from cars towards bikes. (I did say some people)
Religious beliefs and other practices aside, the actual way of life itself is fairly... endearing and attractive in alot of ways.
There is a balance, joining into the whole ball of wax might not be necessary, nor a good idea.
I can agree here wholeheartedly. The simple lifestyle (which the OP was referring to, I believe) is very cool. Put in a hard day's work for a good meal and enjoy the small things in life more, away from a consumerist culture that relies on what's new or in. In fact I think that's what some people are looking for when they move away from cars towards bikes. (I did say some people)
Religious beliefs and other practices aside, the actual way of life itself is fairly... endearing and attractive in alot of ways.
Elkhound
02-08-09, 06:45 PM
I have Amish and Old Order Mennonite relatives; they prefer to pretend that my branch of the family does not exist. Nevertheless, word gets around.
Most Amish are good people in their way, but their insularity and dependence on consensus has fatal defects when the bad apples arise.
Most Amish are good people in their way, but their insularity and dependence on consensus has fatal defects when the bad apples arise.
supcom
02-09-09, 10:04 PM
Why cant we live like them?
Well, surely nobody is stopping you from doing so.
However, you may find that the simplicity of the Amish lifestyle requires a lot more physical labor and requires it virtually every single day. Still, some do prefer the lifestyle.
Well, surely nobody is stopping you from doing so.
However, you may find that the simplicity of the Amish lifestyle requires a lot more physical labor and requires it virtually every single day. Still, some do prefer the lifestyle.
HandsomeRyan
02-10-09, 08:11 AM
I can't tell if the OP is serious? If they are; they have put almost no thought into their question since there are many obvious reasons that we can't all go back to a primative agrarian society.
Ka_Jun
02-10-09, 08:17 AM
It isn't, but similarly, we shouldn't idealize the Amish or any other culture, really.
Kinda like people who idealize the 50s and want to go back to a "simpler time". Guess they forgot about McCarthyism and back yard bomb shelters and such.
+1 no one is immune from social problems. Look up Amish and meth.
Kinda like people who idealize the 50s and want to go back to a "simpler time". Guess they forgot about McCarthyism and back yard bomb shelters and such.
+1 no one is immune from social problems. Look up Amish and meth.
Indie
02-10-09, 08:30 AM
A lot of people here have already gotten away from driving cars everywhere they go, and walk or bike instead. How plausible would that be if you lived fifty miles from town, instead of five miles or in the suburbs or right in the city?
People who do live in cities are doing things like learning to grow their own vegetables and sew/mend their own clothes. It means more work, but you spend less money. You become more mindful of where goods come from and how much work is required to produce them, and consequently you become less wasteful.
You don't need the religious strictures to live like that, and without them you can pick and choose the ways in which you want to become more self-sufficient, without giving up your own values and ethics.
People who do live in cities are doing things like learning to grow their own vegetables and sew/mend their own clothes. It means more work, but you spend less money. You become more mindful of where goods come from and how much work is required to produce them, and consequently you become less wasteful.
You don't need the religious strictures to live like that, and without them you can pick and choose the ways in which you want to become more self-sufficient, without giving up your own values and ethics.
Roody
02-10-09, 11:34 AM
There are so many stereotypes and prejudices about the Amish. I think it's important to remember the "simple" idea that you can't judge individuals by the group they belong to, and you can't judge groups on the basis of a few individuals.
Politically, the Amish are pacifists and social activists. They are often the first on the scene when there's a disaster like a storm or earthquake. They choose freely (or as freely as anyone does) to adopt the lifestyle. I believe they're the fastest growing denomination, mainly because over 90 % of their children choose to stay with the faith after they grow up. Many, maybe most, Amish people have some occupation in addition to farming. They often work in factories. The Amish travel a lot, mostly on interurban buses. I see Amish peple on the bus almost every time I travel in Michigan. Often they're going to visit relatives and friendds in other Amish communities, or going to church meetings, or traveling to help out in a disaster area.
Politically, the Amish are pacifists and social activists. They are often the first on the scene when there's a disaster like a storm or earthquake. They choose freely (or as freely as anyone does) to adopt the lifestyle. I believe they're the fastest growing denomination, mainly because over 90 % of their children choose to stay with the faith after they grow up. Many, maybe most, Amish people have some occupation in addition to farming. They often work in factories. The Amish travel a lot, mostly on interurban buses. I see Amish peple on the bus almost every time I travel in Michigan. Often they're going to visit relatives and friendds in other Amish communities, or going to church meetings, or traveling to help out in a disaster area.
Cosmoline
02-18-09, 03:56 PM
I don't know about their religious views, but they helped give me Lehmans. They have an oil lamp that will heat your tea!! And pine tar soap to boot. A lot of these and other electricity-free vendors would never have survived this long without Amish customers and suppliers. It's another example of why diversity makes us stronger. If it all hits the fan, why there's a group of folks who never forgot how to live in the old ways. That sort of resource can save a nation.
PlatyPius
02-18-09, 04:42 PM
I don't know about their religious views, but they helped give me Lehmans. They have an oil lamp that will heat your tea!! And pine tar soap to boot. A lot of these and other electricity-free vendors would never have survived this long without Amish customers and suppliers. It's another example of why diversity makes us stronger. If it all hits the fan, why there's a group of folks who never forgot how to live in the old ways. That sort of resource can save a nation.
I love Lehman's!
I love Lehman's!
Sailorman13
02-22-09, 10:18 AM
I knew an Amish girl once. She was excommunicated though. Too Menn o nite. :innocent:
Roody
02-22-09, 10:27 AM
Groan!
bac
02-22-09, 10:32 AM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/06/Crocker1.JPG
LEAVE THE AMISH ALONE ;)
...Brad
LEAVE THE AMISH ALONE ;)
...Brad
Geordi Laforge
02-22-09, 11:13 AM
move to a rural commune.
a simple and collective life is not dependent on religious faith/culture.
a simple and collective life is not dependent on religious faith/culture.