Folding Bikes - Bike Friday Direction...is Troubling????

I have a question for everyone. I am a Bike Friday owner and over the past year I am getting the impression that the Bike Friday Greengear organization is moving in a totally new direction with the Tikit being their primary concern and emphasis. Their marketing people are all riding and promoting the Tikit. Also when you go out to the Bike Friday forum (Yak), just about all of the posts are centered around the Tikit. Even their primary marketing “Evangelist" now rides one and primarily promotes it.

My concern as a Bike Friday owner is that they are going to put less emphasis on their other models and possibly fade them out over time. Just for background they did this very thing with their Sat "R" Day recumbent.

I know this is a knowledgeable group. Please give me your take on this.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_vUEhS0lU3eU/SYxOktzQC9I/AAAAAAAAJBQ/JlLjlxkhOq0/s400/bf.jpg

I was just at Bike Friday HQ in January and I sat down with their marketing director for a chat so I can answer this question directly - although keep in mind this is my perspective not Bike Friday's official position.....the Tikit has definitely become a significant part of their business since it was introduced 2 years ago...I think it accounts for 40% of the bikes they sold last year. So focus is definitely shifting towards this part of their product line. That is not to say they don't care about or love their travel bikes - I can see that they do, but Bike Friday is a small company trying to stay afloat in some tough economic times. They are responding to what the market wants and trying to balance their vision for the company against the realities of what the consumer is interested in buying.

You make it sound like they are choosing to focus on the Tikit as if it was a plan to marginalize their other models. I can assure you that if the NWTs, PRs and even Sat "R" Days were flying out the doors as fast as they could make them there probably wouldn't be a Tikit. They are making changes to deal with the fact that a commuter bike like the Tikit has a better appeal to people in a poor economy with less focus on travel than a NWT travel bike does.

I can also attest that nobody at Bike Friday is getting rich or living large..they seem like pretty down to earth folks who want to keep a business they love prospering and that means changing with the times.

If I had to guess here is what I see happening for Bike Friday:

- the Tikit will end up being 60% of their business
- they'll reduce the number of models of their travel bike line to focus on the most popular ones
- they'll promote the "stock" versions of their travel bikes more since they are lower cost and easier produce
- they'll still offer custom bikes for anyone who wants one - it will just be less emphasized

I just got a NWT and it was built with as much love and attention to detail as my Tikit. When I spoke with BF they were all interested to hear how I liked it and were clearly enthusiastic about the classic NWT design.

You also have to realize that for just about anyone you care to name a Tikit is a more useful day to day bike than the other BF models. So it's not shocking that everyone at BF is riding one. My NWT is a better touring bike than my Tikit, but I only tour occasionally and I run errands/commute every day. If I could only keep one BF it would be my Tikit simply because it is a better fit for more of my riding needs.

I'll close with the reassurance that if you have a Bike Friday travel bike you'll get great support from them for as long as you own that bike regardless of how many Tikits they sell. I have no worries that if I need a part for my NWT in 10 years Bike Friday will sort me out even if..*gasp*...the NWT is no longer made.

As far as them supporting older bike my Pocket Rocket was built in 1993 and I still get the news letter and am on very good speaking terms with many of the people who work there. To them every bike is important and will continue to be so but they have to gear there production to what sells. The Saturday was an interesting concept but because it didn't sell it is no longer sold. If you put my 1993 PR next to a 2009 you might even question they were made by the same company. Roger

I think if the guys would be stuck in their ruts ....or rest on their laurels ........that would be troubling ..Obviously they are working hard in every aspect and therfore stay in business ...which is a good thing !


thor

the Tikit has definitely become a significant part of their business since it was introduced 2 years ago...I think it accounts for 40% of the bikes they sold last year.

Wow, really?

Good to hear because although I think the tikit has some really unique and outstanding qualities (particularly the automatic cable operated fold), there are still some design aspects which keep me from buying. Hopefully it being such a big part of their business will result in more development.


I have no worries that if I need a part for my NWT in 10 years Bike Friday will sort me out even if..*gasp*...the NWT is no longer made.

Yeah, I don't really get what the concern is here. Even if they went out of business it's not exactly like their bikes are built with proprietary parts.

I have a question for everyone. I am a Bike Friday owner and over the past year I am getting the impression that the Bike Friday Greengear organization is moving in a totally new direction with the Tikit being their primary concern and emphasis. Their marketing people are all riding and promoting the Tikit. Also when you go out to the Bike Friday forum (Yak), just about all of the posts are centered around the Tikit. Even their primary marketing “Evangelist" now rides one and primarily promotes it.

Like any company, BF goes where the market is. I think that BF realized that their traditional market could be shrinking with the increased costs airlines are placing on additional baggage. To get ahead of the trend they constructed a compact commuter and it turned out to be a hit. It's only been two years, and by all accounts the tikit now represents about 50% of the company sales, and rising. What would you do in their situation?

Why be worried with the influx of all the tikit newbies on Yak? BF is traditionally a high-end builder. Now consider BMW. I'd imagine that 90% of their regular car sales is the 3 series and 1 series. Does this mean they're leaving their 7 series customers behind? No way. They're hardly a major force on the BMW mailing list, but they certainly get the VIP treatment.

I have a question for everyone. I am a Bike Friday owner and over the past year I am getting the impression that the Bike Friday Greengear organization is moving in a totally new direction with the Tikit being their primary concern and emphasis. Their marketing people are all riding and promoting the Tikit. Also when you go out to the Bike Friday forum (Yak), just about all of the posts are centered around the Tikit. Even their primary marketing “Evangelist" now rides one and primarily promotes it.

My concern as a Bike Friday owner is that they are going to put less emphasis on their other models and possibly fade them out over time. Just for background they did this very thing with their Sat "R" Day recumbent.

I know this is a knowledgeable group. Please give me your take on this.

It is all really simple to figure out if you take a closer look at what is said here and on their own official Website. First read this article from 2001:

http://www.bikefriday.com/911 (http://www.bikefriday.com/911)

Where they clearly state that they are still lucky to be in business!

".....However, one small grassroots company with close ties to the travel industry is thanking its lucky stars - and their 9,000+ loyal customers - that they are able to celebrate the new year and their 10th Anniversary in business. That company is Bike Friday...."

Bike Friday was, and still is in some respects, a company catering to the wealthy or well-to-to middle aged well heeled traveler that wants to take a portable bike along for trips. When the 9/11/01 terrorist attacks happened in New York, there was a rippling effect that affected any company who's business was travel connected. Bike Friday was hit very hard and found themselves lucky to survive this major downturn in business. The other portable bike companies seem to deflect this problem since they had a wider base of people who purchased and used these bikes for other activities besides traveling.

The tikit is Bike Friday's first serious branch off from just a traveling bike. It seems to be more like a Dahon or a Brompton in that it is far more flexible in present and future potential uses such as commuting, car substitute, or whatever people deem useful in their lives. The tikit is not just a "pretty face" anymore. It is designed and intended for far more than the original Bike Fridays ever were!


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_vUEhS0lU3eU/SYxOktzQC9I/AAAAAAAAJBQ/JlLjlxkhOq0/s400/bf.jpg

I was just at Bike Friday HQ in January and I sat down with their marketing director for a chat so I can answer this question directly - although keep in mind this is my perspective not Bike Friday's official position.....the Tikit has definitely become a significant part of their business since it was introduced 2 years ago...I think it accounts for 40% of the bikes they sold last year. So focus is definitely shifting towards this part of their product line. That is not to say they don't care about or love their travel bikes - I can see that they do, but Bike Friday is a small company trying to stay afloat in some tough economic times. They are responding to what the market wants and trying to balance their vision for the company against the realities of what the consumer is interested in buying.

You make it sound like they choosing to focus on the Tikit as if it was plan to marginalize their other models. I can assure you that if the NWTs, PRs and even Sat "R" Days were flying out the doors as fast as they could make them there probably wouldn't be a Tikit. They are making changes to deal with the fact that a commuter bike like the Tikit has a better appeal to people in a poor economy with less focus on travel than a NWT travel bike does.

I can also attest that nobody at Bike Friday is getting rich or living large..they seem like pretty down to earth folks who want to keep a business they love prospering and that means changing with the times.

If I had to guess here is what I see happening for Bike Friday:

- the Tikit will end up being 60% of their business
- they'll reduce the number of models of their travel bike line to focus on the most popular ones
- they'll promote the "stock" versions of their travel bikes more since they are lower cost and easier produce
- they'll still offer custom bikes for anyone who wants one - it will just be less emphasized

I just got a NWT and it was built with as much love and attention to detail as my Tikit. When I spoke with BF they were all interested to hear how I liked it and were clearly enthusiastic about the classic NWT design.

You also have to realize that for just about anyone you care to name a Tikit is a more useful day to day bike than the other BF models. So it's not shocking that everyone at BF is riding one. My NWT is a better touring bike than my Tikit, but I only tour occasionally and I run errands/commute every day. If I could only keep one BF it would be my Tikit simply because it is a better fit for more of my riding needs.

I'll close with the reassurance that if you have a Bike Friday travel bike you'll get great support from them for as long as you own that bike regardless of how many Tikits they sell. I have no worries that if I need a part for my NWT in 10 years Bike Friday will sort me out even if..*gasp*...the NWT is no longer made.

I am surprised that the Bike Friday people did not mentioned 2001's reality. The marketing director (who, I'm sure, is in the know about everything Bike Friday or else he would not be there) gave you an excellent rundown on present happenings and sales of their models, especially the tikit. But nothing on whys and basic reasons the tikit was created in the first place? It is no company secret since it is on their Website for all to see!

I am not sure why you are concerned. BF can do what it likes with it's company. My guess is that Tikit owners will buy PR Pros/tandems/Crusoes and PR Pro/tandem/Crusoe owners will by Tikits. I own a PR Pro and just yesterday talked to a BF rep about a Tikit, as well as a lighter rear wheel for my PR Pro. I can't imagine BF wants to cede the performance travel market to Airnimal/S&S/Ritchey/Swift/Moulton/Dahon/Brompton/Birdy. But anything is possible.

I am surprised that the Bike Friday people did not mentioned 2001's reality. The marketing director (who, I'm sure, is in the know about everything Bike Friday or else he would not be there) gave you an excellent rundown on present happenings and sales of their models, especially the tikit. But nothing on whys and basic reasons the tikit was created in the first place? It is no company secret since it is on their Website for all to see!

I have no idea how you can judge what someone at BF did or didn't tell me???...:rolleyes: Maybe I just didn't write about it...lol...I felt the need to provide an alternate viewpoint to the OP's concern...but, it's not my job to speak for BF or cover every aspect of their business plan....:twitchy:;)

Can somebody explain if BF went through some kind of big change a few years ago, especially with their dealerships? I looked at BF's a few years ago. One local dealer had quite a few models in stock and to test ride. Another dealer I stopped in out of town had the same thing.

Anyway I am now interested in a BF to use on my boat and to train for road riding. I went to my LBS and they don't stock BF. They steered me towards Dahon. I checked for other dealers and all the previous ones I kno of don't carry them anymore as well.

I don't know if anything happened, but you can get a list of dealers here...

http://bikefriday.com/node/1943

I just got a postcard ad from BF touting "bike adventures around the block and around the world." Interestingly, in an ad asking readers to "Plan Your Spring," the featured bikes are the Pocket Companion and the Family Tandem Traveler. I think the woman on the reverse side is rolling a folded Tikit, but there is no specific mention made of the Tikit.

While the market seems to demand the compact and quickly-folded, BF seems still to be casting a wide net. I wouldn't be too concerned about them whittling down their lineup. In more than a couple of places in the ad, Bf announces that their bikes are made to "best fit your modern day lifestyle" and that they're "built to fit you and your needs." Customization for different situations--all situations--seems to be the goal. Judging from people's experiences with them--Vik's for example--this isn't BS.

Their attention may be on the Tikit nowadays, but it seems from the ad (and website too) that BF is about working with a wide range of potential customers. Their logo says it as much as anything: that's a NWT with trailer/suitcase, right? Very cool company.

Since folding bikes are such a tiny part of the overall bike market, I can not imagine why a successful company with interesting and successful offerings in a variety of bike 'genres' would abandon those successful designs and become a one trick pony in a very small pond.

Forgive the mixing of metaphors - it isn't good writing practice, but should get the idea across - this idea is not likely to be a real issue. People who run small but successful companies are unlikely to give up the product lines that have made them famous and successful.

Heck, if BF has found their iMac in the sense that the Tikit is a high quality, functional, fun bike that fills a niche and is AFFORDABLE, then I say go for it!

It only means there will be more folding bikes, more competition, better design, better prices, less polution, and positive growth for BF.

Their corporate emailing last month advertised a New Tourist(?)
in a standard configuration for 699.00. :eek:

My concern as a Bike Friday owner is that they are going to put less emphasis on their other models and possibly fade them out over time. Just for background they did this very thing with their Sat "R" Day recumbent.




Yeah, I don't really get what the concern is here. Even if they went out of business it's not exactly like their bikes are built with proprietary parts.

+1

The only reason they will "fade out" a product is if it isn't selling well enough to keep it. I don't know what else one could expect them to do. I own a NWT and makeinu is spot on. While it is nice to be able to get matching touch-up paint, that's pretty much the only thing that I have to get specifically from Bike Friday.

Speedo

I don't know if anything happened, but you can get a list of dealers here...

http://bikefriday.com/node/1943

That confirms what I meant. Maybe it's just in the DC area and other places I looked but it seems like no dealers carry Friday any longer (or just barely carries them). The DC area is one of the largest areas of population in the conytry now. The BF site lists one dealer in Virginia (who has none in stock or demo) and wanted me to get a Dehon. The single dealer for Maryland has none in stock either but stocks lots of Danhon as well as carries Genius Freedom, Xooter, Brompton, Airnimial, and Montague.

From what I remember BF is the folder to get if you want a high end bike to do lots of milage and simulate your road/racing bike for training. Is that no longer the case? If so, what else should I look at?

The new Bike Friday mission was adopted in late 2006: To build a better tomorrow by offering individual solutions for transportation, personal oil independence, and health. And as I understand it, the tikit was a direct outcome of this focus. As others have said, the tikit isn't replacing other models, but is in addition. My Express tikit is my 4th Bike Friday (SatRDay, Pocket Crusoe, sold them to get a Pocket Rocket Pro). I like not having to carry a lock--just roll it into the grocery store, restaurant, classroom, etc. Also handy for touring.

That confirms what I meant. Maybe it's just in the DC area and other places I looked but it seems like no dealers carry Friday any longer (or just barely carries them). The DC area is one of the largest areas of population in the conytry now. The BF site lists one dealer in Virginia (who has none in stock or demo) and wanted me to get a Dehon. The single dealer for Maryland has none in stock either but stocks lots of Danhon as well as carries Genius Freedom, Xooter, Brompton, Airnimial, and Montague.

From what I remember BF is the folder to get if you want a high end bike to do lots of milage and simulate your road/racing bike for training. Is that no longer the case? If so, what else should I look at?

Perspective is a funny thing. When I was buying my NWT there were NO Bike Friday dealers in Massachusetts. Now Harris Cyclery is a dealer. So I'm not seeing a decrease in dealers.

BFs have always been a bit of a specialty item. If you are interested you might try the various Bike Friday clubs. Go to a ride, talk to the owners. Maybe something will be in your size and you can test ride.

(edit) You can take matters into your own hands in another way. The Los Angelinos have been organizing folder rides here on Bike Forums. If you are from the No. VA, So. MD area, I'll bet if you organized a ride you could get all bikes you ever wanted to look at, and all the owner comments you ever wanted to hear all in one place. No one says you have to be a folder owner to organize a folder ride! The folder riders would probably thank you for taking the initiative.
(/edit)

Speedo

I think the Tikit is great, personally. Bike Friday can reach out to a much wider market and gain stability through changing situations.

I don't see the New World Tourist disappearing anytime soon, who knows what the future may hold. My Pocket Llama may some day, but Bike Friday isn't the kind of company that will cut ties with customers because their model isn't made anymore.

Columbia got into automobiles, had their empire colapse and wound up mostly as a manufacturer of sheet metal products, and has ultimately quit manufacturing bicycles.

Troubling.

Peugeot got into motorbikes and then automobiles, lost their passion for cycling and ultimately quit manufacturing bicycles.

Troubling.

Schwinn kept building the bicycles their factory was optimised for rather than bikes consumers wanted, and ultimately went bankrupt.

Troubling.

Cannondale and Trek have had to hollow out their manufacturing operations, sending more and more production overseas, in order to maintain cost competitiveness.

Troubling.

BikeFriday has introduced a new, fresh bicycle model built in their exsiting works that's turned out to be a sales hit.

Not troubling.

tcs

Just found this recent article on the Bicycle Retailer website. It features an interview with Bike Friday co-founder, Alan Scholz. The other company profiled is Co-Motion, located near BF (2.5 miles away) and itself a famous maker of Tandems - and regular bikes, too.

http://www.bicycleretailer.com/news/newsDetail/2189.html

The article should answer some of the questions posted above.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This web page might also be interesting for newer Forum members:

http://www.bikefriday.com/history

That confirms what I meant. Maybe it's just in the DC area and other places I looked but it seems like no dealers carry Friday any longer (or just barely carries them). The DC area is one of the largest areas of population in the conytry now. The BF site lists one dealer in Virginia (who has none in stock or demo) and wanted me to get a Dehon.

You're referring to Bikes@Vienna. Though they are primarily a Dahon reseller, just a few weeks ago they had three tikits in stock; I'm pretty sure they're not out. There are also two other DC area stores which stock Bike Friday: Mt. Airy Cycles and their sister store, College Park Cycles. Mt. Airy usually has several tikits and pocket rockets in stock.

That confirms what I meant. Maybe it's just in the DC area and other places I looked but it seems like no dealers carry Friday any longer (or just barely carries them). The DC area is one of the largest areas of population in the conytry now. The BF site lists one dealer in Virginia (who has none in stock or demo) and wanted me to get a Dehon. The single dealer for Maryland has none in stock either but stocks lots of Danhon as well as carries Genius Freedom, Xooter, Brompton, Airnimial, and Montague.

From what I remember BF is the folder to get if you want a high end bike to do lots of milage and simulate your road/racing bike for training. Is that no longer the case? If so, what else should I look at?

John Bruno often has a NWT around as well as a tikit or two. You can also contact the local chapter or Bike Friday themselves to find some friendly local that will let you see/try their bike.

Last year I heard BF was talking about developing a folding stem (stem post) for non-Tikit Fridays, so I recently called them up to ask about their progress. I talked to one of their guys in service, and he said they hadn't started, but it's on the ToDo list for this year. He revealed that their strategy for the last 2 years was to focus on the Tikit and getting the kinks out, but now they're happy with the Tikit and this year's plan is to take some things they learned about the Tikit to apply to their travel line. He wouldn't give any more details other than the folding stem, so I'm curious about what upgrades or improvements they have in mind.
(btw, the folding stem is not meant to replace the rigid one, but offer as an accessory. The intent is to use the rigid stem for touring, and the folding stem for commuting.)

Having not drank the folder Kool-Aide yet, but being very interested in the Tikit w/hyperfold, I'll offer my newbie perspective (if anyone is interested): to me, once you start talking about folding bikes, the facility and convenience of the bike is significantly enhanced by making the folding process as fast and easy as possible.

I were going to buy a folder, I would want one that allowed absolutely tool-free folding with no disassembly and in as short a time as possible. If I don't have to spin any knobs or change the position/height/etc of my seat, bars or anything else affecting fit and requiring fiddling to reset (and opportunity to screw up the fit as consequence), even better.

I have not yet ridden one (hope to at the local BF dealer tomorrow), but it seems like the Tikit (especially with hyperfold option) embodies the above better than anything on the market at the current time. It may not fold as small as some others, but it folds faster, and there's no fiddling (at least as far as I can tell - maybe I'm in for a disappointment when I see one in person, in my size).

Knowing friends who run small business centered around manufacturing a product, I would definitely understand BF's potential future motivation to move away from slower selling niche-within-a-niche models to focus on bikes like the Tikit that have a broader appeal. That said, just from their marketing materials and the personal attention they pay to even the most innocuous inquiries on the Yak, it's clear they take customer satisfaction very seriously and I have a hard time imagining they'd leave any former customer high and dry.

FWIW, YMMV, etc. :)

Steve

mmmmm ... kool aid.

You're referring to Bikes@Vienna. Though they are primarily a Dahon reseller, just a few weeks ago they had three tikits in stock; I'm pretty sure they're not out. There are also two other DC area stores which stock Bike Friday: Mt. Airy Cycles and their sister store, College Park Cycles. Mt. Airy usually has several tikits and pocket rockets in stock.
I was in College Park Cycles just a few days ago - They had a Tikit on the display floor right near the door.

I have no idea how you can judge what someone at BF did or didn't tell me???...:rolleyes: Maybe I just didn't write about it...lol...I felt the need to provide an alternate viewpoint to the OP's concern...but, it's not my job to speak for BF or cover every aspect of their business plan....:twitchy:;)

Who says I'm judging you or anyone else here? I am just looking out for my own best interests as I have done starting with the selection of my first folder. My Websites are simply documenting my personal discoveries as they happen to me.

Brompton (thanks to Foldable Two for the links)
http://www.bicycleretailer.com/news/newsDetail/1786.html


“......Germany is the fourth-largest export market for Brompton, which still manufactures every folding bike in England. Other top export markets are the Benelux countries, Japan and Spain.

The company is aggressively tackling new markets and has piggybacked on cycling’s booming growth in several Asian countries, including Taiwan and Korea.

“We’re trying to go after growth everywhere,” Roberts said.

Roberts said the Brompton factory in western London has a current capacity of 25,000 units a year and could double output if needed.....”

Bike Friday
http://www.bicycleretailer.com/news/newsDetail/2189.html (http://www.bicycleretailer.com/news/newsDetail/1786.html)

“.....Last summer’s commuter craze boosted sales, but business dropped 30 percent in October 2008 from the year before due to the country’s financial meltdown, Scholz believes, leaving the company with too much inventory. As a result, Bike Friday employees are working shorter shifts and will build to demand next year instead of trying to project the number of units that will sell in the spring....”

This is quick overview of what I look when I check out a given company for everything from automobiles to bikes. I look for not too fast growth, and the ability to meet rise and fall of demand without stressing a company's bottom line too much. I simply want some indication of being around for the long-term-even a major Depression.

For me, Bike Friday is an interesting bike, but I have absolutely no interest in right now. I do admit I will be in the market for another folder within the next 2 years. The tikit is a really neat interesting little bike. But it would be totally suicidal to own/ride one around the places I need to go. Here is why:


My original reason why I even bought my first folder is the same now as it was five years ago. Regular bikes-even beater ones-that I used previously no longer worked for the situations I had to face-a long term transit strike, a near loss of a double locked beater bike, and something that I never discussed publicly before. One of my mother's distant relations had his head knocked with a blunt instrument over a cheap mountain type bike from a department store-just a few blocks from my old high school. He now falls unexpectedly with convulsions at any time. He has to take government assistance. I do not want to end up like he did. So I only use bikes that can be bagged and hidden when necessary from hostile, prying eyes.



The tikit, like all Bike Fridays, has BIKE FRIDAY too noticeable across the headtube. And it is too nice. I don't even dare to take it traveling as the problem of theft/jacking can occur most anywhere, especially for the unaware. I only use bikes that don't look too nice or interesting when I run errands or travel.



We already had a member lose her bike very recently. Nekohime had her Piccolo stolen just last month. This fact might be loss on others on this forum since being this is a global community and the theft was a local one. But it did sound an alert to me since I live in the same locale. So I decided to "harden" my targets and create more "silly looking" bags for my little bikes. These will not be posted on the Internet or any other public area or offered for sale for security reasons. There are limits that are imposed on me.



All folding bikes, no matter the make or model, does have unique proprietary parts in order to fold the way the bike designers intended it to. I always question the company's solvency as well as the continuation of the model I am thinking of purchasing in order to continue using the bike for the long term (at least 10 years for me). That is what I look for in public records available on the Internet or anywhere else for that matter. I am happy that Bike Friday learned from the 9/11 situation. But that does not prevent any other sudden shocks of production anticipation.



I think that most people don't really require a folding and/or high performance bike for utility use. I think the Chinese cheapos and the under US 500 bikes will be the winners of people now either shy about or simply cannot afford a high price high end bike of any type. I for one only keep bikes that can be masked as a kid's bike (Brompton) or a cheapo Chinese bike (Dahons). I have no plans going to Canada or Europe at this time, so a travel bike is not needed.

Thanks for all the replies it was very instructive for me. And Vik I want to thank you especially for your insightful reply. It really helped to explain the issue for me. You should be Bike Fridays marketing guru. And therein is the problem for me. Greengear has done a not so good job in communicating to their "folk" their position, and direction. This can sometimes send mixed signals especially to their loyal fan base. And yes the BMW analogy presented is also a valid one. Yes the 325 "bread and butter" model is their hot seller. However, those who have the 7 series or hot M models have no fear of being forgotten or left out.

Maybe we need to hear more from Hanz and Alan and less from their "Evangelist" and others concerning direction and Greengear philosophy.

In saying the above, I certainly do not want to throw stones at Greengear for I own and have owned 3 Bike Fridays and I find them "True" high end with quality and performance to match and I will always have one in my stable.

It's "Adapt or Die" for everyone, today.

You have to do it fairly quickly, and you have to hope you guessed right. There also isn't a whole lot of room for error for smaller companies like Green Gear, so their plans are likely fluid, and not totally defined at the moment.

I doubt there will be any Gov't "bail-out" $ heading in their direction, either.

this thread has gone on entirely too long without a picture. townsville australia, by the way.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d169/mattlavallee/2008-11-1609-02-45.jpg

Wow, pretty place! Thanks! :)

My original reason why I even bought my first folder is the same now as it was five years ago. Regular bikes-even beater ones-that I used previously no longer worked for the situations I had to face-a long term transit strike, a near loss of a double locked beater bike, and something that I never discussed publicly before. One of my mother's distant relations had his head knocked with a blunt instrument over a cheap mountain type bike from a department store-just a few blocks from my old high school. He now falls unexpectedly with convulsions at any time. He has to take government assistance. I do not want to end up like he did. So I only use bikes that can be bagged and hidden when necessary from hostile, prying eyes.



The tikit, like all Bike Fridays, has BIKE FRIDAY too noticeable across the headtube. And it is too nice. I don't even dare to take it traveling as the problem of theft/jacking can occur most anywhere, especially for the unaware. I only use bikes that don't look too nice or interesting when I run errands or travel.



We already had a member lose her bike very recently. Nekohime had her Piccolo stolen just last month. This fact might be loss on others on this forum since being this is a global community and the theft was a local one. But it did sound an alert to me since I live in the same locale. So I decided to "harden" my targets and create more "silly looking" bags for my little bikes. These will not be posted on the Internet or any other public area or offered for sale for security reasons. There are limits that are imposed on me.



All folding bikes, no matter the make or model, does have unique proprietary parts in order to fold the way the bike designers intended it to. I always question the company's solvency as well as the continuation of the model I am thinking of purchasing in order to continue using the bike for the long term (at least 10 years for me). That is what I look for in public records available on the Internet or anywhere else for that matter. I am happy that Bike Friday learned from the 9/11 situation. But that does not prevent any other sudden shocks of production anticipation.



I think that most people don't really require a folding and/or high performance bike for utility use. I think the Chinese cheapos and the under US 500 bikes will be the winners of people now either shy about or simply cannot afford a high price high end bike of any type. I for one only keep bikes that can be masked as a kid's bike (Brompton) or a cheapo Chinese bike (Dahons). I have no plans going to Canada or Europe at this time, so a travel bike is not needed.


Yikes! Sounds arduous!

Being car free and lugging around a folding bike in bike hostile America is tough enough that I don't think I could practice the kind of commitment you're describing here and, by my post count, I'm obviously quite obsessed! You have all my respect for doing it, but time is money and I wonder why not spend a little more time researching your own solvency and living situation and a little less time disguising your bike as the perfect oversized diaper bag? That way if the **** hits the fan you can afford a new bike or switch to plan B and abandon your bike altogether. I would never want one of my folders to be my only hope.

I agree about the branding though. It's very counterproductive on folding bikes; especially ones with expensive decals that don't rub off easily.

isnt part of the whole point of a folder that you can take it inside with you so it wont get stolen?
My Joey is not the smallest or fastest fold, bt I fold it every day and carry it up to my office, and put it in my house at night.
there is very little chance of someone making off with it, and Darwin is notorious for bike theft!

Hey, that photo is a very appropriate Green Gear Green, Bike Friday.

The color of MONEY, too! :thumb:

(No bias toward the color GREEN here, not at all.......lol)

The tikit is a really neat interesting little bike. But it would be totally suicidal to own/ride one around the places I need to go. Here is why:


So I only use bikes that can be bagged and hidden when necessary from hostile, prying eyes.



Like this?
http://www.bikefriday.com/images/email/1325-tikitfeb07/images/WEB-tikit-in-bag350.jpg




The tikit, like all Bike Fridays, has BIKE FRIDAY too noticeable across the headtube. And it is too nice. I don't even dare to take it traveling as the problem of theft/jacking can occur most anywhere, especially for the unaware. I only use bikes that don't look too nice or interesting when I run errands or travel.



The tikit has its logos attached with stickers which you can peel off.

If you're worried about bikes which look "interesting", why in the world are you even looking at folding bikes? I doubt Mr. Southern California Bike Thug is any more likely to attack you because of your Tikit than he will because of your Dahon Speed P8. In Italy people are mesmerized by my Dahon Helios P8s, and they're as boring looking as folders get.

http://www.dahon.com/images/bikes/standard/unfold/2006/heliosp8.jpg




So I decided to "harden" my targets and create more "silly looking" bags for my little bikes. These will not be posted on the Internet or any other public area or offered for sale for security reasons. There are limits that are imposed on me.



Bike thieves are searching the Internet even as we speak, looking for pictures of your bags.

Anyway, I'm sure you can make one for your new Tikit.




I always question the company's solvency as well as the continuation of the model I am thinking of purchasing in order to continue using the bike for the long term (at least 10 years for me). That is what I look for in public records available on the Internet or anywhere else for that matter. I am happy that Bike Friday learned from the 9/11 situation. But that does not prevent any other sudden shocks of production anticipation.



Like many companies, BF got caught flat-footed by the sudden drop in consumer spending. They're back to an inventory-free model. But the company has a fanatical customer base, a popular new product, and a management which has proven they can weather the worst. They have a history of long-term support for their bikes. Seems like an okay bet to me. I'm wishing them the best, and also for Brompton (which according to this this more recent article (http://uk.biz.yahoo.com/09012009/399/brompton-rides-crest-weaker-pound.html) has less of a rosy outlook than your previous link suggested).




I for one only keep bikes that can be masked as a kid's bike (Brompton) or a cheapo Chinese bike (Dahons). I have no plans going to Canada or Europe at this time, so a travel bike is not needed.


This is nonsense. There is absolutely no way a Brompton will be confused by Mr. Bike Thug as a kid's bike no matter how many streamers you put on it. Nor will any Dahons be confused with bikes you buy at Wal-Mart, even if you spray-paint them "Schwinn".

The tikit's market isn't travel. It's a commuter bike. It also has a feature that should appeal to you: unlike the Dahons and (heaven forbid) Bromptons, the tikit largely uses standard parts.

"Suicidal." Seriously. You don't think that's a tad extreme?

My question is: how long before there is a version of the Tikit with 20" wheels? Or, a version of the Pocket Rocket / Pocket Lama / etc. with Tikit-style folding. Wouldn't necessarily have to be hyperfold, but would not have the stem/bars dangling loose.

I'm sure I'm not the first to ask this, but I'd bet something like that would be a huge winner and probably a nice shot in the arm for their travel bike segment.

My question is: how long before there is a version of the Tikit with 20" wheels? Or, a version of the Pocket Rocket / Pocket Lama / etc. with Tikit-style folding. Wouldn't necessarily have to be hyperfold, but would not have the stem/bars dangling loose.

I'm sure I'm not the first to ask this, but I'd bet something like that would be a huge winner and probably a nice shot in the arm for their travel bike segment.

I wrote about this recently in another thread; BF told me they're developing an aftermarket folding stem post for non-Tikit Fridays, probably avail sometime in 2009. It will be swapable with the rigid stem, so you can still use your rigid stem for touring.

Im actually selling 2 of my Metro Models and planning to get the tikits[instead of a brompton]

i want to be able to fold the bike quickly and take it with me on a bus or train here in L.A.

I have seen and ridden a Tikit (at a shop in Berkeley, CA). The Tikit in folded configuration is NOT very compact. THAT'S the trade off of the fast fold in my opinion. The reason for the fiddly knobs and such on a bike such as the Brompton is that you can get a much more compact fold.

No doubt the Tikit is a desirable bike and BF has definitely come upon a good thing for themselves, but I was not impressed with the folded dimensions so decided not to get one. One other complaint with the Tikit is that during my test ride, the handle bar tube /steerer tube (?) was very flexible. It was a bit unnerving.

On the other hand, when I saw the Brompton get folded for the first time, it was like a "wow" moment. So small and compact. I'll be packing it for my next airline trip.

I hear there's high expectations for the new Dahon Curl. It's folded dimensions may even beat the Brompton's. I'm saving my money already.




I were going to buy a folder, I would want one that allowed absolutely tool-free folding with no disassembly and in as short a time as possible. If I don't have to spin any knobs or change the position/height/etc of my seat, bars or anything else affecting fit and requiring fiddling to reset (and opportunity to screw up the fit as consequence), even better.

Steve

The tikit has its logos attached with stickers which you can peel off.

Great! :thumb:

Peugeot got into motorbikes and then automobiles, lost their passion for cycling and ultimately quit manufacturing bicycles.

Troubling.


This is a bit misinformed. Peugeot made its first car in 1890, and the car and bicycle companies went their seperate ways in 1926. The cessation of bike manufacture had nothing to do with the car business.

One other complaint with the Tikit is that during my test ride, the handle bar tube /steerer tube (?) was very flexible. It was a bit unnerving.

Stem flex is definitely the tikit's biggest bugaboo, but most complaints stem from improper hyperfold cable tension (or from using the old two-cable design). I'm guessing your LBS didn't set up the bike correctly. Assuming you were looking at a hyperfold of course. See here (http://cs.gmu.edu/~sean/stuff/tikit/#issues) for more data.

I have seen and ridden a Tikit (at a shop in Berkeley, CA). The Tikit in folded configuration is NOT very compact. THAT'S the trade off of the fast fold in my opinion. The reason for the fiddly knobs and such on a bike such as the Brompton is that you can get a much more compact fold.

This is why no folding bike is ideal for everyone. On a typical ride I fold/unfold my Tikit 4-10 times. I only had to fold/unfold a Dahon once to realize I'd never bother with folding it more than a couple times a ride and even that was a PITA.

The Brompton fold was equally cumbersome, but the ride was unspectacular so it was doubly unappealing.

Compared to any of my other bikes the Tikit's folded dimensions are tiny and it fits into a car, train, closet without drama.

Best of all at 6' tall I could get a large frame and get a comfortable fit similar to my full size bikes.