"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - The hypocrisy of singling out Pro Cycling as a tainted sport

Is underscored by Arod's positive test for steroids from 2003, a year when 100+ MLB players (that's something like 10% of the league) also tested positive. Their careers went uninterrupted, MLB had no penalties for a positive PED test at that time.

Cycling gets a bad rap because they have been compelled to DO something about their doping issues by the financial realities of the sport. Baseball, football, basketball, soccer? PED scandals won't hamper huge ticket sale and TV revenues in those sports. Don't rock that boat baby. Why would they?

I strongly feel that pro cycling may well show these other sports the way they will all eventually have to go to clean up their acts. They certainly appear to be trying.

MLB is starting to realize how this F's up baseball, where statistics are huge, and tainted stats are a major problem. Moreso than just about any other big-time team sport in my view. How the hell can you have hot-stove debates about the greatest player when some of them were juiced? You can't. They have to get a handle on this in MLB (and in the other sports).

i just get pissed because in the NFL dudes can get popped and fans still think they should be player of the year.

i just get pissed because in the NFL dudes can get popped and fans still think they should be player of the year.

Meanwhile the UCI or the Tour de France won't hesitate to yank the Yellow Jersey from the Tdf or de-throne the winner, even on the strong suspicion of doping. I'm not sure how much further they can go short of automatic lifetime bans for positive tests. I'm all for stringent controls, but lifetime bans would be going too far for me. I think the two year ban is just about right.

what i am trying to get at is how the FANS of the NFL tolerate it but are some of the first to talk about how dirty cycling is.

what i am trying to get at is how the FANS of the NFL tolerate it but are some of the first to talk about how dirty cycling is.

Cycling is no dirtier than any other sport. They've just turned on the house lights. When they really do that in these other sports (IF they do) it will get far uglier. By that time I surely hope that pro cycling will be relatively clean.

i agree

What's hilarious is that the argument is that the test doesn't matter because it was supposed to be anonymous. What a joke that the supposed best player in the league and the "clean" hope for the homerun record is the poster boy for doping in the MLB. Give em 50 games and take away all his stats from the 2003 year. Same for everyone else on the list (104?). Just last year Selig was talking about how A Rod can bring back some purity to the game.

On a side note it amazes me how many people associate steroids with huge players. You don't have to be a large person to benefit from steroids.

Oh and where's all the hatred for Carl Lewis from all the cycling haters...

what i am trying to get at is how the FANS of the NFL tolerate it but are some of the first to talk about how dirty cycling is.


what? in the good old US of A there is no such thing as a NFL fan who speaks of cycling. i mean, pics or it didnt happen.

later.

sure they do. unfortunately they only talk about it what is shown on espn which is only about lance armstrong and people getting busted.

i just love how the media laughs at cycling for catching all these athletes. are they laughing because people are getting caught or are they laughing because a serious effort is being made to catch them?

This type of argument is so silly. If cycling wasn't so dirty, there would be nothing to be concerned about. Y'all sound like "About-face McQuaid"...

And who said life was fair??????

This type of argument is so silly. If cycling wasn't so dirty, there would be nothing to be concerned about. Y'all sound like "About-face McQuaid"...

And who said life was fair??????

I have no idea what this means. And I'm sure you don't either, so life is fair after all.

I have no idea what this means. And I'm sure you don't either, so life is fair after all.

Sorry to be so harsh, but y'all need some of that HTFU cream on your chamois...

dude i dont think anyone here said cycling wasnt dirty

Hey - let's talk about the real cheats: those "financial wizards" who led us into the current economic melt down. Last I heard, no cyclist (nor even a pro baseball or football player) ripped anyone off for an estimated 20 to 50 BILLION dollars. So lets get real - the real crooks here are the dishonest so called investment advisors.

I suspect that without steroids pro football would shrink faster than the pecs.

Okay - back on topic. This today from Associated Press,
"Meanwhile, the stench of a scandal baseball let fester for more than a decade grows even stronger and forces us once again to rethink everything that has happened before.

The only difference is that at least now we know. The days of presuming innocence are long gone."

I'll bet though, that nothing is done about it.

"F" all this "putting things in perspective" crap. Pro cycling needs to continue cleaning up its own house and backyard. There is no purpose served in looking over the fence into someone else's backyard and complaining that their yard is just as dirty...

Let baseball deal with baseball, football with football, etc...All this whining about "it's not fair blah blah blah" is ridiculous, and nobody really cares. McQuaid needs to get serious about getting rid of ALL the cheats and instituting lifetime bans (ZERO Tolerance). That would serve as a deterrent where there is none now...

Okay - back on topic. This today from Associated Press,
"Meanwhile, the stench of a scandal baseball let fester for more than a decade grows even stronger and forces us once again to rethink everything that has happened before.

The only difference is that at least now we know. The days of sticking our head in the sand about it or turning a totally blind eye are now gone."

I'll bet though, that nothing is done about it.


Fixed.

I agree with pcad on this one. So does Bob Roll (http://kcpw.org/article/1457)

Oh and where's all the hatred for Carl Lewis from all the cycling haters...

What about Carl Lewis? Was he juicing when he tried to sing the National Anthem? That wouldn't explain the inability to hit the high notes.


I think the only real reason there is a huge backlash with cycling and PEDs is because it is solely supported by sponsorship dollars. Nobody buys tickets to a race, we all know that. With sponsors footing the bills for everything, they will never want to be associated with a 'dirty' team or racer. The companies sponsoring the NFL, NBA, MLB, even the NHL, are putting their names on the stadiums, or in commercials, etc. If they were slathered all over the jerseys, well I think things would be very different because the players that are caught would immediately be associated with an advertiser. 'ARod, of the General Electric Yankees', that would never fly.

The premise of the thread is wrong. No one is singling out anything, unless the op is suggesting the uci should worry about the MLB.

Bottom line is that it comes down to the players unions. If the cyclists had the power that the players in the MLB/NFL/Tennis/PGA or Euro Football we wouldn't see the type of treatment that we see pertaining to cyclists. Honestly if they would have stood with the UCI against ASO last year they could have taken back much of that power.

Because Football & Baseball are "our" sports so it's ok. Pro cycling is "their" sport so it's bad.

I would honestly say that all professional sports are tainted. When you say that if you do better you will make more money, well, people are going to try anything they feel they can get away with.

About the only way to cure the problem is to remove the motivation.

The premise of the thread is wrong. No one is singling out anything, unless the op is suggesting the uci should worry about the MLB.

This may be true on the g planet, but I see cycling being trashed in the media and online as a particularly dirty sport on a rather regular basis. I'm suggesting that this is rather ironic considering that the UCI is the only sports governing body out there doing anything meaningful in the attempt to control doping in sports. Not because they are altruistic, but because the economics of the sport are compelling them to do so.

The biggest illusion of all is that sports on the pro level remains pure sport. It's a BUSINESS. Always will be. The trick is to TRY to keep the pure sport alive. With all the money involved, that's the hard part these days.

The USADA approached the NFL, MLB, NBA, and even the PGA to do their controls. All of them said no thank-you. It has gotten so bad with cycling’s “guilty until proven innocent” that all the major sports will not use the USADA.

The labs make mistakes….not often….. but they do. At that point it is up to the cyclist to prove himself innocent…….that is wrong. In my world, we test soldiers for illegal drug use, if the lab messes something up the soldier will get off even if he is guilty. The burden of proof is on the lab/testers. If cycling would take that approach you would get more cooperation from the riders because they would see testing as good for the sport and not a witch hunt.

Why does nobody talk about steroid use in high school sports. It's rampant. Anyone who says otherwise is a blind and enabling idiot.

The "doctors" and h.s. coaches who make it possible: those are the people I'd like to go after.

Why does nobody talk about steroid use in high school sports. It's rampant. Anyone who says otherwise is a blind and enabling idiot.

The "doctors" and h.s. coaches who make it possible: those are the people I'd like to go after.

I seem to recall discussion on this topic on 60 minutes, 20/20, other news magazine tv shows. unless I'm confusing it with concussion syndrome resulting from impressionable teenagers being pressured into "manning up" and getting back on the field when they get their bells rung.

although, 100% agree, HS coaches and drs. enabling steriod use should be treated more harshly than a guilty street corner smack dealer IMO.

back to the original post - it is comical to me that dopers like shawn merriman, rodney harrison to name two, are invited to participate on nfl pre-game shows, revered as greats on the field, but have both failed drug tests and served suspensions for 'roids and HGH. But everytime cycling is mentioned on the 4-letter network or in mainstream media, there is some commentary re: doping in the sport.

The labs make mistakes….not often….. but they do. At that point it is up to the cyclist to prove himself innocent…….that is wrong. In my world, we test soldiers for illegal drug use, if the lab messes something up the soldier will get off even if he is guilty. The burden of proof is on the lab/testers. If cycling would take that approach you would get more cooperation from the riders because they would see testing as good for the sport and not a witch hunt. The problem is EPO is so much harder to test for than roids used in other sports. You have to catch it within a few days of the person using it, even though the effects of it will last a few weeks. So let's say a pro cyclist is tested about every week. One week before a race, he gets tested. Right after that, he uses EPO. Next week he's tested on the day of the first stage, it's likely he won't show any EPO in his system. He'll probably have another week or two of increased hematocrit though, which is huge. Meanwhile with most other sports the main steroids used are anabolic steroids, which are much easier to detect. So it's unfortunate, but the cycling doping control has to be much more invasive than that of other sports, and the blood results are much harder to get anything from. It doesn't mean that "guilty until proven innocent" is fair, but it is understandable given the nature of the drugs used.

Man, this "pity party" is getting real old. Pro cycling, and it fans apparently, need to stop looking outside and look inside - that's where the problem lies...

you must be reading another thread but posting on this one because no one is taking pity on cycling or claiming that there isnt a problem.

you must be reading another thread but posting on this one because no one is taking pity on cycling or claiming that there isnt a problem.

LOL! Someone please help this guy out. Apparently I'm not communicating in English and/or I'm just not getting through...

LOL at troll

The double standards are getting real old. As someone said earlier, NFL juicing is 'acceptable' yet MLB and cycling isn't?

I won't lie I'm a huge McGwire and Bonds fan, I dont condone what they did but I'm a firm believer that it was rampant in the sport. Bonds was even quoted as saying, 'everyone else is doing it, I'm going to get mine.'

Both cycling and baseball need to put an amnesty on these guys and start new. These witch hunts are getting old. France tests more of Lance's piss from 1999 than they do of riders today.

As a huge baseball fan its sad to see 3 of the 4 greatest players of our generation not get in the hall of fame -

Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Alex Rodriguez

Only Greg Maddux is a lock now which is depressing. If they do vote these guys in how to they justify not letting in McGwire? MLB and cycling are tearing down thier idols and taking the sport with them.

LOL! Someone please help this guy out. Apparently I'm not communicating in English and/or I'm just not getting through...

I dont think you are comprehending the posts in this thread. go re-read, and report back on teh posts where the position being taken is one that argues cycling doesnt have doping issues.

I dont think you are comprehending the posts in this thread. go re-read, and report back on teh posts where the position being taken is one that argues cycling doesnt have doping issues.

"A mind is a terrible thing to waste..."

A-Rod is now known as A-Roid.

A-Rod is now known as A-Roid.

http://www.extrememortman.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/Rim%20Shot%20Johnny%20Utah.jpg

:roflmao2::roflmao2::roflmao2::roflmao2::roflmao2::roflmao2:

A-Rod is now known as A-Roid.

i'm surprised he spilled 3 years of beans over a positive test. gotta be more there for him to dish.

i'm surprised he spilled 3 years of beans over a positive test. gotta be more there for him to dish.

I cant believe no one is questioning asshat reporters like peter gammons or tim whatever his name is nerdy guy baseball guru from espn on the entire steroid issue. these guys are considered insiders, knowledgeable about the game of baseball and its inner workings, yet somehow they missed steroid use being so prevalent over the past 20 effin' years. they HAD to know, yet they gushed over the longball and strikeout records like teenaged girls over the high school quarterback. no journalistic integrity whatsoever IMO.

Meanwhile the UCI or the Tour de France won't hesitate to yank the Yellow Jersey from the Tdf or de-throne the winner, even on the strong suspicion of doping. I'm not sure how much further they can go short of automatic lifetime bans for positive tests. I'm all for stringent controls, but lifetime bans would be going too far for me. I think the two year ban is just about right.

Floyd still won the TdF in 2006, IMHO.

MLB is starting to realize how this F's up baseball, where statistics are huge, and tainted stats are a major problem. Moreso than just about any other big-time team sport in my view. How the hell can you have hot-stove debates about the greatest player when some of them were juiced? You can't. They have to get a handle on this in MLB (and in the other sports).

Your main point is right on, but this is just silly. Stats mean different things in different eras, and you'll never be able to give the same metric equal weights across decades -- it doesn't matter whether the mechanism changing play is equipment, stadium design, expanded labor pools, turf material, or drugs.

Your main point is right on, but this is just silly.

That's not what 99% of sportswriters and baseball fans think. The biggest problem with doping in baseball is it screws up the legitimacy of the stats for all time. And stats are huge in baseball. Say what you will about different eras, etc. (all very true) and fans will always compare how many HRs Aaron had vs. Ruth vs. some future player. But now the future player (Arod) is forever tainted.

And that is a major problem for baseball. They know it better than anybody.

I wonder how much EPO is used in the amateur 35+ and 2/3/4 pelotons in the US. I'm sure it would shock everybody here if it could ever be revealed.

But I'm clean. And I have the (lack of) results to prove it beyond any doubt.

Cycling gets a bad rap because they have been compelled to DO something about their doping issues by the financial realities of the sport. Baseball, football, basketball, soccer? PED scandals won't hamper huge ticket sale and TV revenues in those sports. Don't rock that boat baby. Why would they?

Nail on head .... nail on head, sir. :thumb:

... Brad

Did anyone watch A-Rod's ESPN interview? He went around questions and was still arrogant. I think he tried to justify that it was OK for him to use illegal PEDs since it was not illegal in baseball at the time and now he is totally against it. He never admitted to using any specific drug just said he "was experimenting"

In all honesty, this will probably all blow over in a few years and those in the MLB, NFL, other american TV sports will continue to dope, get caught, and get pushed under the rug. Why? Because money talks. If Scott Boras' top baseball star, or Drew Rosenhaus' top football star can't play because of a failed dope test, the player, agent, player's union, nfl/mlb, tv networks, teams, etc, all loose money. No star player == no money.

i just get pissed because in the NFL dudes can get popped and fans still think they should be player of the year.

actually the NFL players can murder two people (ray lewis) and be a pro bowler and the fans love them even more