Living Car Free - Bicycles in a throwaway society

Last week I walking over some impassible ice blocks when I met a guy going the other direction walking a single speed. We stopped to speak and I noticed his ancient Schwinn was pretty neat. He gave me the history and said that, among other things, the wheels were the original. He never replaced them in 30 years.

I was floored by this fact. Clearly his bike was not living fulltime in the basement. And they were still strong today.

Many bicycle parts you buy today are intended to last a few years of hard use -- at best -- and then to be chucked in the nearest dumpster. Quite often parts like wheels get chucked out when the only thing needed is a few new spokes. Hubs and rims could last much longer, but it is too much work to repair them.

This is all pretty sad, particularly when the know-how to make these repairs isn't exactly rocket science.

This is all pretty sad, particularly when the know-how to make these repairs isn't exactly rocket science.


12,000 miles on a 600 dollar bike some maintenance.
3400 miles on 100 bike with tires and minus some tubes.

donate the bike when your done with it.

Last week I walking over some impassible ice blocks when I met a guy going the other direction walking a single speed. We stopped to speak and I noticed his ancient Schwinn was pretty neat. He gave me the history and said that, among other things, the wheels were the original. He never replaced them in 30 years.

I was floored by this fact. Clearly his bike was not living fulltime in the basement. And they were still strong today.

Many bicycle parts you buy today are intended to last a few years of hard use -- at best -- and then to be chucked in the nearest dumpster. Quite often parts like wheels get chucked out when the only thing needed is a few new spokes. Hubs and rims could last much longer, but it is too much work to repair them.

This is all pretty sad, particularly when the know-how to make these repairs isn't exactly rocket science.


In "The Story of Stuff," the rather annoying woman who narrates that short film mentions that most stuff people buy is discarded within six months.

Bikes last a whole lot longer than most things people buy, including cars in many cases, but they're still machines, and parts do wear out. I ride 4,000-5,000 miles/year in a very hilly city with nine months of sub-par weather out of 12, and a local government that doesn't know the meaning of road maintenance. Because of this, brake pads, tires, rims, and even whole drive trains to a certain extent, can pretty much be considered consumables despite my best efforts to preserve them. I do routine maintenance on a weekly basis, but even so, I have to replace my brake pads every 4-6 months. Chains last about a year. Tires, cassettes and rims are worn out in about 2 years. (Sometimes the rims go faster than that.) Most of these parts are easily recyclable once they're worn out, so it's not like it's a total waste.

There's not much to go wrong on an old steel singlespeed. On the other hand, a lot can go wrong, if people don't take the time for a bit of care. A lot of sad bikes come through our shop, for every loved ancient Schwinn you see on a street corner there's probably a rusted out counterpart somewhere.

Yes, very much a throwaway society. One fellow comes into our bike co-op with dumpstered bikes and parts occasionally. He recently brought in a pair of high quality freeride / downhill wheels which were tossed out, and the only apparent reason I could discover was that the hubs needed some service.

Sometimes though, its just the nature of the goods. I've recently had to scrap some good, high quality donated bikes due to safety concerns - a Specialized Allez Elite and a Kona hardtail due to cracks in the aluminum. Easily repairable on other materials, but that's how it is. People like lightweight, sporty goods. When its all a race, nobody wants to be the one on the 20 year old slug that isn't keeping up with the times.

It's mostly our culture. Must always keep up with innovation rather than keep the classics going. But, then , I'd rather be using my STI 27 gears rather than my first 10 speed. Maybe cycling has progressed in that we are pushing bikes harder with the new race culture over the old local commute uses of the Schwinn culture. I wish I had my old , English - "Victoria," ( I think was it's name) that my Dad gave me, to embelish my garage.. At least with the coming of required re-cycling one day our old bikes at least won't set out in the cold rain rusting in some junk yard.

I think that most bikes that are sold in the USA are either 1) very cheap so that the parts wear out really quickly (wal-mart) or 2) very expensive "high end" road bikes that have parts that, while very expensive, wear out very quickly because the makers prefer to save a few grams rather than produce something durable. Remember that in America bikes are toys, not something that has to last and that you can rely on to get you places. American cars, that is, cars that are sold in America, are some of the most reliable on the planet because we drive them so much and depend on them. Reliability is emphasized in the American market far more than that of Europe or Japan where gas cost so much that it would take a small fortune to drive a car over 100,000 miles. Though of course, they are still not as reliable as a med-level bike!

Yes we have a throw away society. No one can make any money in a consumer society if they built durable goods to last.:rolleyes: Until the societal attitudes change or people can't afford to buy anything it will continue.

I avoid purchasing anything that has to be thrown away..even paper towels and plates! I use cloth towels and washable plates.:lol:

When I purchase a large ticket item (and some smaller priced ones too) I look for durability and the ability to get repair parts. Repair parts for many items are unavailable, and in many cases it is less expensive to trash the old one. However that doesn't mean it has to go to the land fill. With old bikes we recycle the components usable go to the local Bicycleman (http://www.thebicycleman.com/) everything else gets sent to recycling, even tires.

Aaron:)

My bike is over thirty years old, and the only reason I replaced the wheels was that the steel rims were so frakking heavy. Anyone want some 20" steel rims? They're perfectly good. :D

After owning this thing I can't imagine ever buying a new bicycle again. There are great old frames out there that will just go to waste if someone doesn't adopt them.

It's mostly our culture. Must always keep up with innovation rather than keep the classics going.Also, the way price tags go, it's almost always cheaper to buy a new one than get spare parts and fix the old stuff. I've hung on to my 2 low-end hybrids just for the heck of it, to see how long I can keep them going. Financially it doesn't make much sense.


I avoid purchasing anything that has to be thrown away..even paper towels and plates! I use cloth towels and washable plates.:lol:I even fail to see the joke in using cloth towels and washable plates. :twitchy: But I know what you mean.

--J

Those steel rims might be strong, but try stopping in a rain storm. The new rims are also pretty strong, but they're lighter and stop you better when wet. I've only had one fail on me so far.

Those steel rims might be strong, but try stopping in a rain storm..

No problem stopping on an ancient single speed Schwinn (or any other brand) with coaster brakes, no matter what the rims are made of or what the weather.

Those steel rims might be strong, but try stopping in a rain storm. The new rims are also pretty strong, but they're lighter and stop you better when wet. I've only had one fail on me so far.
Many older, top-of-the-line bikes came with alloy rims that are much lighter and about as bombproof. You can buy reasonably light alloy rims today that are just as bombproof.

You might have to hunt to find them, though. They are not cheap and the more durable ones come with more spokes (in my book, preferably 36). I don't understand how 18 spokes can keep a wheel together for any length of time. Sounds like a way to sell wheels and lure cash out of pockets.

I would say that while some traits typical of older bicycles such as steel frames and friction shifters were very robust compared to some lightweight, near-flimsy, non-serviceable modern day renditions, good wheels have become even more robust. I would feel confident in saying that I would expect a well built "standard, non-exotic" wheel from today to outlast and outperform one from the 1970s.

Of course, that does not include the 18 spoke racing wheels. Typically, the individuals buying these are *looking* to replace them every year or two, as they're in it for speed, and will actively seek to step up to something with better performance. Not many serious enthusiasts or racers would pick up a heavier wheelset so that they could keep it longer. Already heavier, and getting worse every time their competition picks up new lightweight kit does not fly in a competitive, sport riding society.

Oh, occasionally those 18 spokes don't keep a wheel together for any length of time!

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_urSQl6wUA5g/R8778SarJ6I/AAAAAAAABXY/l9vYYjxCosQ/s1600-h/14.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_urSQl6wUA5g/R8778SarJ6I/AAAAAAAABXY/l9vYYjxCosQ/s1600-h/14.jpg

In "The Story of Stuff," the rather annoying woman who narrates that short film mentions that most stuff people buy is discarded within six months.

Bikes last a whole lot longer than most things people buy, including cars in many cases, but they're still machines, and parts do wear out. I ride 4,000-5,000 miles/year in a very hilly city with nine months of sub-par weather out of 12, and a local government that doesn't know the meaning of road maintenance. Because of this, brake pads, tires, rims, and even whole drive trains to a certain extent, can pretty much be considered consumables despite my best efforts to preserve them. I do routine maintenance on a weekly basis, but even so, I have to replace my brake pads every 4-6 months. Chains last about a year. Tires, cassettes and rims are worn out in about 2 years. (Sometimes the rims go faster than that.) Most of these parts are easily recyclable once they're worn out, so it's not like it's a total waste.



There's not much to go wrong on an old steel singlespeed. On the other hand, a lot can go wrong, if people don't take the time for a bit of care. A lot of sad bikes come through our shop, for every loved ancient Schwinn you see on a street corner there's probably a rusted out counterpart somewhere.

Yes, very much a throwaway society. One fellow comes into our bike co-op with dumpstered bikes and parts occasionally. He recently brought in a pair of high quality freeride / downhill wheels which were tossed out, and the only apparent reason I could discover was that the hubs needed some service.

Sometimes though, its just the nature of the goods. I've recently had to scrap some good, high quality donated bikes due to safety concerns - a Specialized Allez Elite and a Kona hardtail due to cracks in the aluminum. Easily repairable on other materials, but that's how it is. People like lightweight, sporty goods. When its all a race, nobody wants to be the one on the 20 year old slug that isn't keeping up with the times.


I think that most bikes that are sold in the USA are either 1) very cheap so that the parts wear out really quickly (wal-mart) or 2) very expensive "high end" road bikes that have parts that, while very expensive, wear out very quickly because the makers prefer to save a few grams rather than produce something durable. Remember that in America bikes are toys, not something that has to last and that you can rely on to get you places. American cars, that is, cars that are sold in America, are some of the most reliable on the planet because we drive them so much and depend on them. Reliability is emphasized in the American market far more than that of Europe or Japan where gas cost so much that it would take a small fortune to drive a car over 100,000 miles. Though of course, they are still not as reliable as a med-level bike!


Yes we have a throw away society. No one can make any money in a consumer society if they built durable goods to last.:rolleyes: Until the societal attitudes change or people can't afford to buy anything it will continue.

I avoid purchasing anything that has to be thrown away..even paper towels and plates! I use cloth towels and washable plates.:lol:

When I purchase a large ticket item (and some smaller priced ones too) I look for durability and the ability to get repair parts. Repair parts for many items are unavailable, and in many cases it is less expensive to trash the old one. However that doesn't mean it has to go to the land fill. With old bikes we recycle the components usable go to the local Bicycleman (http://www.thebicycleman.com/) everything else gets sent to recycling, even tires.

Aaron:)

Thank you all for your unintentional guidance. This the general direction of the type of bike-and general lifestyle added in too-I want hanging in my house for years of dependable use, rather than a quick cheesy fix of overhyped performance and no way to get replacement parts for continued use.

Of course, that does not include the 18 spoke racing wheels. Typically, the individuals buying these are *looking* to replace them every year or two, as they're in it for speed, and will actively seek to step up to something with better performance. Not many serious enthusiasts or racers would pick up a heavier wheelset so that they could keep it longer. Already heavier, and getting worse every time their competition picks up new lightweight kit does not fly in a competitive, sport riding society.



http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_urSQl6wUA5g/R8778SarJ6I/AAAAAAAABXY/l9vYYjxCosQ/s1600-h/14.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_urSQl6wUA5g/R8778SarJ6I/AAAAAAAABXY/l9vYYjxCosQ/s1600-h/14.jpg

I don't have anything particularly against racing culture per se; the more people on bikes, the better, IMO. However, I regard much of racing culture as the antithesis of LCF and utility cycling. For quite a few roadies (by no means all), the carbon racing bike is merely an extension of a lifestyle that includes large houses, BMWs/Porches/SUVs, and children who've never seen the inside of a public school. That is, it's just another expression of capitalist consumerism, a way to show one's status through possessions, rather than a reaction against the worst aspects of our culture, or a means to avoid that trap altogether.
Many of them are impressive cyclists, but they're in it for the sport, not as a means to lower their carbon footprint or a good way to go buy dog food.

It is entirely possible to buy nice, new, relatively high performance stuff today that does last, so long as you shop wisely, take reasonable care of it and give it the necessary maintenance. The difference is as much in the mindset of the customer/cyclist as it is in the components.

My bikes are not state of the art racing machines, but they're not antique boat anchors either. They are, however, built and maintained to last as long as possible.

That is, it's just another expression of capitalist consumerism, a way to show one's status through possessions, rather than a reaction against the worst aspects of our culture, or a means to avoid that trap altogether. Many of them are impressive cyclists, but they're in it for the sport, not as a means to lower their carbon footprint or a good way to go buy dog food.

I have to agree that the racing/roadie segment of the bicycling universe is perhaps aberrant to the majority of the bicyclists in the world. As you say, sport and competition drive them and they pay a significant premium for a small or imagined edge. I'm not sure how many are in it for decadent consumerism. But I don't know that many so I can't say. Certainly there is the stereotype of carrying a $5,000 bicycle on a $1,000 car, and many racers are young, so their present economic status does not tell much about their future economic status.

But I agree that within the utility and commuter communities, that part of the mindset of many is living an Earth-friendly or sustainable life. And that these two communities don't necessarily mix well.

In "The Story of Stuff," the rather annoying woman who narrates that short film mentions that most stuff people buy is discarded within six months.

Bikes last a whole lot longer than most things people buy, including cars in many cases, but they're still machines, and parts do wear out. I ride 4,000-5,000 miles/year in a very hilly city with nine months of sub-par weather out of 12, and a local government that doesn't know the meaning of road maintenance. Because of this, brake pads, tires, rims, and even whole drive trains to a certain extent, can pretty much be considered consumables despite my best efforts to preserve them. I do routine maintenance on a weekly basis, but even so, I have to replace my brake pads every 4-6 months. Chains last about a year. Tires, cassettes and rims are worn out in about 2 years. (Sometimes the rims go faster than that.) Most of these parts are easily recyclable once they're worn out, so it's not like it's a total waste.

I have similar experiences with "modern" equipment. When I started cycling (about 4 years ago), I bought a hybrid. Parts wore out pretty quickly. But when I went to replace them, I really had to do some research to find good quality replacements. Wheelsets are a good example. You can find good prices on them and often with mostly good components (like the Sunrims CR18... which I've used on my commuter for the last 3 years.) You've really got to do the research to avoid buying junk though. The first set of replacement wheels were Sunrims CR18 and a Shimano hub -- both good quality -- but laced with a no-name set of spokes. Of course, the wheel fell apart in 6 months and the LBS wanted to sell me another set. I opted for a bunch of DT spokes and rebuilt the wheel myself. I true it up every 6 months or so, but it is still in business 2 1/2 year later.

On the other hand, I've been cycling about 4 years and I have my original 2005 helmet, which now has about 16000 miles on it. Unfortunately, I don't take it in the house. I leave it tied up to my bike in the garage... for reasons you may only imagine.:D

On the other hand, I've been cycling about 4 years and I have my original 2005 helmet, which now has about 16000 miles on it. Unfortunately, I don't take it in the house. I leave it tied up to my bike in the garage... for reasons you may only imagine.:D

However, if you were to follow the instructions in most helmets it would mean that your helmet IS worn out because you are supposed to replace them once a year due to the foam decomposing! What does your helmet company recommend?

However, if you were to follow the instructions in most helmets it would mean that your helmet IS worn out because you are supposed to replace them once a year due to the foam decomposing! What does your helmet company recommend?

Funny you should mention that...I was just checking for that information on my new Bell Metro that I just got from Nashbar on clearance sale. Helmet was manufactured in Feb '04;) However there is nothing in the manual that recomends replacement at any interval. The only time they say replace is after a crash. I bought the Metro because it is a better built helmet than most of the ones I have been looking at and at the price it couldn't be beat.

I work commercial/industrial construction and have to inspect and replace safety equipment on a regular basis and most the manufacturers of safety equipment we deal with have very specific guidelines and if they don't OSHA probably will. I am surprised the helmet doesn't have a recommended replacement term. FWIW I also have one of the old Bell Biker helmets from the early 80's...don't wear it anymore, but it is still around.

Aaron:)

Those steel rims might be strong, but try stopping in a rain storm. The new rims are also pretty strong, but they're lighter and stop you better when wet. I've only had one fail on me so far.

I agree on the rain part. Although its not nearly as bad as it was, with the new brakepads you can get today. but on a side note.

I use STEEL rims for ALL my rear wheels (hand built of course). I got tired of ruining rims. I keep the aluminum in the front for braking pourposes, like you mentioned.

No problem stopping on an ancient single speed Schwinn (or any other brand) with coaster brakes, no matter what the rims are made of or what the weather.

LOl Damn skippy! if you add a front brake to that youre golden.

However, if you were to follow the instructions in most helmets it would mean that your helmet IS worn out because you are supposed to replace them once a year due to the foam decomposing! What does your helmet company recommend?
Foam decomposing? Annually? That sounds like a great way to create huge piles of foam in the landfill. If they can't make a helmet that lasts longer than 1 year, I think I'll stop wearing one.

Foam decomposing? Annually? That sounds like a great way to create huge piles of foam in the landfill. If they can't make a helmet that lasts longer than 1 year, I think I'll stop wearing one.


A LBS in my town recommends "replacing" a helmet every six months.

Foam decomposing? Annually? That sounds like a great way to create huge piles of foam in the landfill. If they can't make a helmet that lasts longer than 1 year, I think I'll stop wearing one.

I shot an email off to a chemist buddy of mine asking her unbiased professional opinion of the life span of helmet foam. I will report the results when I get a response. I know there are few thousand if not more formulations of foam and you can add all types of things to them to extend the life of them. However as far as helmets are concerned I suspect UV and oil from skin and hair are the major destructive forces, along with inadvertent drops and overheating from being left in car trunks or back seats. Interestingly enough the first helmets I had used white foam in the liners, now all of them appear to have dark colored...not sure the why behind that. BTW first hard shell helmet I ever owned (and still have somewhere) was one of the big white Bell Bikers. My newest helmet is a Bell Metro.:thumb:

Aaron:)

When its all a race, nobody wants to be the one on the 20 year old slug that isn't keeping up with the times.

I do!

A LBS in my town recommends "replacing" a helmet every six months.

Of course, it increases sales!

Also, the way price tags go, it's almost always cheaper to buy a new one than get spare parts and fix the old stuff. I've hung on to my 2 low-end hybrids just for the heck of it, to see how long I can keep them going. Financially it doesn't make much sense.

I even fail to see the joke in using cloth towels and washable plates. :twitchy: But I know what you mean.

--J

In this country EVERYTHING is served on throwaway plates (or so it seems) I take a plate with me to work in my lunch cooler vs using a throwaway paper plate.

Aaron:)

With a little under 5000 miles on my folding bike (my main commuting machine) I have run through maybe a dozen tubes, ten tires, three chains, one rim (it wore out; not crashed or bent) and now the frame (it's cracking from use, not abuse).

I know I'm saving money-- at least $2000 I'd guess; and riding has numerous other benefits that we all know about. Still, I can't help wonder whether I am actually using less resources than if I were driving.

With a little under 5000 miles on my folding bike (my main commuting machine) I have run through maybe a dozen tubes, ten tires, three chains, one rim (it wore out; not crashed or bent) and now the frame (it's cracking from use, not abuse).

I know I'm saving money-- at least $2000 I'd guess; and riding has numerous other benefits that we all know about. Still, I can't help wonder whether I am actually using less resources than if I were driving.


I'd say you are, a 30 mpg car would have used over 1200 lbs of gasoline in that 5000 mile period, not to mention it takes 1 gallon of gasoline to transport and make 7 to 8 gallons of gasoline.

With a little under 5000 miles on my folding bike (my main commuting machine) I have run through maybe a dozen tubes, ten tires, three chains, one rim (it wore out; not crashed or bent) and now the frame (it's cracking from use, not abuse).

5000 miles and your frame is cracking? My first thought is: get off that frame! You don't want to be commuting in traffic some day when it decides to do some more cracking.... :(:crash:

Also, is your frame material aluminum? I hear that they usually give out (after many years..) around the seatpost.

Also you might try to confront the manufacturer with your mileage and the state of the frame. It may be a bad frame.

I know I'm saving money-- at least $2000 I'd guess; and riding has numerous other benefits that we all know about. Still, I can't help wonder whether I am actually using less resources than if I were driving.

I have heard a statistic several times now that about 100 bicycles can be made from the average amount of materials needed to build 1 medium sized car.

Thats not including the other factors, such as fuel and upkeep.

That unfortunate that your bike isn't proving to have a long lifespan though. Perhaps it can be warrantied?

A LBS in my town recommends "replacing" a helmet every six months.


Of course, it increases sales!

A Real LBS would recommend that a Real Bicyclist replace his bike every six months too; and there may be some more gullible Bicyclists that would believe that bogus sales pitch is legitimate just like the helmet "stuff".

5000 miles and your frame is cracking? My first thought is: get off that frame! You don't want to be commuting in traffic some day when it decides to do some more cracking.... :(:cra*****hanks, but no worries there! The day I discovered the crack, I rode home; bike has been parked since then.



Also, is your frame material aluminum? I hear that they usually give out (after many years..) around the seatpost. Bingo, gold star for you! Yes, aluminum; and yes, giving out around the seatpost. Where did you hear that that's where they fail? Curious, you know; want to do my research.



Also you might try to confront the manufacturer with your mileage and the state of the frame. It may be a bad frame.
I'm actually trying very hard not to be confrontational!:lol: The manufacturer has sent me a replacement frame for about 1/5 the cost of a new bike, which I think is okay, not great. Oddly he doesn't seem interested in examining the old frame to determine whether it was defective or not. :notamused:

My main concern is the one expressed in the title of this thread, though: is this, for practical purposes, a disposable bike? It suits my needs quite well, and is reasonably priced, and I presume holds up well enough for the typical rider, i.e. someone who does not ride very much. The bike is warrantied for a year, not a number of miles. A year is probably enough time for manufacturing defects to come to light, so for the typical rider that's enough. But I ride nearly every day, in all kinds of weather, and fold the bike twice each time I ride. This is heavy use, but not abuse (I am well below the height and weight limits specified by the manufacturer). Nonetheless, clearly this bike was not built for the kind of use it's getting.

What kind of folder is it? Some are better built than others, as with all things. Brompton used to have a lifetime warranty, now it is 5 years, I believe. They make frames with steel. Then there are folders designed for hard use, such as the Bike Friday Pocket Expedition.

Where did you hear that that's where they fail? Curious, you know; want to do my research.

If you search the C & V forums, you'll probably find reference to this fact. If you are buying an older aluminum bike, that's the first place you look for damage. No sure why. Guess that's where the stress is.

Maybe you can search this later. The search seems to be broken right now.

One of our friends throws his bicycles away when something goes wrong! He just goes to Wal-Mart and buys another cheap bicycle. He was shocked when he found out I bought my Townie last year! He said that I should have just bought a cheap bike for $100 or less, and ride it till it breaks, then throw it away and buy another one. He does the same thing with computers and other stuff too ....

In this country EVERYTHING is served on throwaway plates (or so it seems) I take a plate with me to work in my lunch cooler vs using a throwaway paper plate.

Aaron:)

That's funny I have a bowl, a coffee mug, a knife and three to four plastic spoons/forks that I keep in the office, I have found that I can eat just about anything out of the combination (plus the water bottle on my bike if I use the other two for food). It does suck washing them with hand soap in a small bathroom sink, but it beats carrying in paper products all the time...

A Real LBS would recommend that a Real Bicyclist replace his bike every six months too; and there may be some more gullible Bicyclists that would believe that bogus sales pitch is legitimate just like the helmet "stuff".

Gullible indeed, everyone knows you are supposed to replace a bike every 3 month's or 600 miles.

My main concern is the one expressed in the title of this thread, though: is this, for practical purposes, a disposable bike? It suits my needs quite well, and is reasonably priced, and I presume holds up well enough for the typical rider, i.e. someone who does not ride very much. The bike is warrantied for a year, not a number of miles. A year is probably enough time for manufacturing defects to come to light, so for the typical rider that's enough. But I ride nearly every day, in all kinds of weather, and fold the bike twice each time I ride. This is heavy use, but not abuse (I am well below the height and weight limits specified by the manufacturer). Nonetheless, clearly this bike was not built for the kind of use it's getting.

I would think an aluminum folding bike would not really be a good choice for a full time commuting bike, full time coffee shop bike seems more like it. I think you hit the nail on the head when said it was probably not intended to be ridden very much. It is probably perfect for taking on the bus/train occasionally, and great for keeping in your RV or something. I would imagine there are not too many specific commuting bikes made from aluminum, for a reason.

I would think an aluminum folding bike would not really be a good choice for a full time commuting bike, full time coffee shop bike seems more like it. I think you hit the nail on the head when said it was probably not intended to be ridden very much. It is probably perfect for taking on the bus/train occasionally, and great for keeping in your RV or something. I would imagine there are not too many specific commuting bikes made from aluminum, for a reason.

You've hit the nail on the head. Aluminum frames are disposable, and therefore the perfect material for bicycles in a throwaway society. For someone like myself who wants a steel framed folding bike, my options are the very cheapest and the most expensive ones; the middle range is dominated by aluminum ones.

You've hit the nail on the head. Aluminum frames are disposable, and therefore the perfect material for bicycles in a throwaway society. For someone like myself who wants a steel framed folding bike, my options are the very cheapest and the most expensive ones; the middle range is dominated by aluminum ones.

That's unfortunate, while not quite right for my situation, I can see how they would really be handy for a lot of people... I think they have the potential to increase the possibility of cycling to lots of people worldwide...

You've hit the nail on the head. Aluminum frames are disposable, and therefore the perfect material for bicycles in a throwaway society. For someone like myself who wants a steel framed folding bike, my options are the very cheapest and the most expensive ones; the middle range is dominated by aluminum ones.
I disagree with you. Aluminum bikes can last quite a long while. Of course, they haven't been widely in use as long as steel, so it would be difficult to know which would last longer. You do have to be careful about metal fatigue with aluminum, but there are many aluminum frames from the 1990s that are still in service. Outfits like Cannondale use aluminum exclusively. So while it might be possible to say steel may be a little more durable , I wouldn't say aluminum is in any way a "disposable" material.

Perhaps we could shift this conversation to carbon fiber as a frame material.... :)

I disagree with you. Aluminum bikes can last quite a long while. Of course, they haven't been widely in use as long as steel, so it would be difficult to know which would last longer. You do have to be careful about metal fatigue with aluminum, but there are many aluminum frames from the 1990s that are still in service. Outfits like Cannondale use aluminum exclusively. So while it might be possible to say steel may be a little more durable , I wouldn't say aluminum is in any way a "disposable" material.

Perhaps we could shift this conversation to carbon fiber as a frame material.... :)

True, a good aluminum bike can last a long time. After all our aircraft industry has been using it for a very long time. People have been using Aluminum for boats where they wouldn’t use steel because it has the advantage of not rusting. But it doesn't take abuse as well. However for a road bike it can be made strong and light. All three materials have their place and CF is no exception. But isn’t that how we are in bicycle forums? We have our favorite bikes and our favorite material and we don’t understand why everyone doesn’t use what we like?:D

We have our favorite bikes and our favorite material and we don’t understand why everyone doesn’t use what we like?:D

I like steel the best but fully understand why some people would prefer AL or CF, I think making an aluminum folding bike however is structurally much different than a standard road frame and I think steel lends itself better to that specific design (BikeFriday, Dohan style bikes anyway).

That's funny I have a bowl, a coffee mug, a knife and three to four plastic spoons/forks that I keep in the office, I have found that I can eat just about anything out of the combination (plus the water bottle on my bike if I use the other two for food). It does suck washing them with hand soap in a small bathroom sink, but it beats carrying in paper products all the time...

I keep a very small bottle of dish detergent in my "lunch box" (I use an old medium sized Igloo Playmate cooler) for washing up my stuff. Most of the time I am out on jobsites so hauling the dirty dishes back and forth isn't a real issue.

Aaron:)

I have all old steel frame bikes...I just don't care for the "feel" of aluminum. I replace parts when needed. I've never had a frame fail, but I only weigh 120 so perhaps I'm not as hard on a frame as a heavier person.

Keep parts clean and lubed! They last longer that way.

My Giro helmet maker suggests replacing after three years...

... Aluminum frames are disposable, and therefore the perfect material for bicycles in a throwaway society. For someone like myself who wants a steel framed folding bike, my options are the very cheapest and the most expensive ones; the middle range is dominated by aluminum ones.

I disagree with you. Aluminum bikes can last quite a long while. Of course, they haven't been widely in use as long as steel, so it would be difficult to know which would last longer. You do have to be careful about metal fatigue with aluminum, but there are many aluminum frames from the 1990s that are still in service. Outfits like Cannondale use aluminum exclusively. So while it might be possible to say steel may be a little more durable , I wouldn't say aluminum is in any way a "disposable" material.

Perhaps we could shift this conversation to carbon fiber as a frame material.... :)

You are probably right; I can't be rational while I'm still kinda ticked off that my aluminum folding bike frame failed after not even 5000 miles. In fact I have a 1983 Cannondale that is pretty much flawless, not that I have ridden it very much. The problem with an aluminum folding bike, I think, is that you bend the frame a little every time you flip the quick-release on the seat post; in my case that means loosening it every time I fold the bike, and tightening it up again every time I unfold; which I do every time I ride it, i.e. my ride to work and my ride home. Folding bikes are bound to get more metal fatigue than fixed frame bikes.

...Folding bikes are bound to get more metal fatigue than fixed frame bikes.

Thanks, that is exactly what I was trying to say, but did it much less clearly and concisely...