I am a newbie composing his first ever thread at an on-line forum. My apologies if I transgress any forum etiquette.
My MTB (40th birthday gift) is a Panther Carbonore, welded carbon frame 24 speed with some Shimano Deore LX stuff, 32-spoke wheels.
Our 18 month old daughter rides on the MTB via an old Rhode Gear rack with slide-on Rhode Gear baby carrier (inherited from an older cousin now in ninth grade). Our six year old son is about to leave training wheels behind but he also rides on a not-brand-new Adams Starter Trail-A-Bike (again, inherited from the older cousin now in ninth grade). I shimmed the Trail-A-Bike hitch block onto my 29.2 mm seatpost using PVC pumbing fittings which raise the bearing surface of the hitch block clear and above the rack.
The baby carrier and the Trail-a-Bike are mutually exclusive transportation but I would like to ride with both kids at my pace. I’ve been downsized out of the workforce (i.e., no job) and became the stay-at-home dad so there is no budget for a used tandem fitted for a captain, stokid, and baby carrier. Oh, but a man can dream... Unless there is a commercially available rack which accomodates a trailercycle hitch behind a baby carrier, my solution is to ask a local metal fabrication shop to build a rack.
Has any one else solved this kind of rack problem? I have questions about what structural issues are involved. The bike frame has existing eyelets tapped through the dropouts and two straps clamp around the seat stays to affix the upper extensions of the existing rack. I doubt that braze-ons can be tapped on the seat stays (carbon fiber?) for increased rigidity.
---What are load limits (shear limits?) for the dropout eyelets and seat stay clamps?
i.e., (Dad on bicycle + child in carrier + six year old on trailercycle) X acceleration
---Should I upgrade to the newer Adams Trail-A-Bike hitch and shims?
---Can the design of a custom rack place the baby carrier more aft for better clearance between my spinning shoes and the toddler’s toes? (When she falls asleep, her shoes drift forward.)
---If a pipe is welded in place of the seatpost at the back of the rack should it be plumb or match the typical angle of a seatpost tube?
I have visited the threads here at Bike Forums for two or three weeks and have seen a lot of deep wisdom at the Recreational & Family discussion group and the Tandem discussion group. I read some threads where thinking minds suggested an inexpensive cyclocomputer for the Trail-A-Bike or carrying a spare tube for it. That was a “Eureka!” moment which made me say "I've got to join this."
I am submitting this to Recreational & Family discussion but if you know any one over at Tandem discussion who has an idea, please ask them to have a look-see.
As I read yesterday, "Bike's in good shape, motor needs work."
Best regards and thank you for all your help. --newbie Neal the “VéloSíDad”
DieselDan
04-29-04, 09:21 PM
Referring back to a experence I've had managing bike rentals, I have tried what you are suggesting without success. One thought maybe getting a top tube mounted or handlebar mounted child carrier. I personally don't like these items, but they may work for what you want to do. The cost is minimal compared to the expense and problems that may occur trying to use a rear mounted child carrier. Go to a good LBS to buy the different child carrier, as a large bike wholesaler carries these items.
Just where in Carolina are you?
Michel Gagnon
04-30-04, 08:46 PM
There are two solutions.
1. If you are tall, there are some cheap bike seats that don't use the rack but rather have their own bracket. A common model around here has 2 "U" brackets in cheap tubing: the top attaches near or on seatpost and the bottom on seat stays. If you place such a baby seat high enough, the trailercycle could be installed under it and would work OK... providing you don't do any tight turns.
2. If you can put your hand on a used child trailer, why not? For two years, I have used extensively a road train made of my bike + trailercycle + child trailer. You don't jump-start at interesections, but it's actually quite stable.
Boomer
04-30-04, 11:15 PM
I was in your quandry two years ago. If you can fabricate something that can handle a carrier and a trailer bike at the same time, you should patent it. It ought to get you some good royalties.
I am a newbie composing his first ever thread at an on-line forum. My apologies if I transgress any forum etiquette.
My MTB (40th birthday gift) is a Panther Carbonore, welded carbon frame 24 speed with some Shimano Deore LX stuff, 32-spoke wheels.
Our 18 month old daughter rides on the MTB via an old Rhode Gear rack with slide-on Rhode Gear baby carrier (inherited from an older cousin now in ninth grade). Our six year old son is about to leave training wheels behind but he also rides on a not-brand-new Adams Starter Trail-A-Bike (again, inherited from the older cousin now in ninth grade). I shimmed the Trail-A-Bike hitch block onto my 29.2 mm seatpost using PVC pumbing fittings which raise the bearing surface of the hitch block clear and above the rack.
The baby carrier and the Trail-a-Bike are mutually exclusive transportation but I would like to ride with both kids at my pace. I’ve been downsized out of the workforce (i.e., no job) and became the stay-at-home dad so there is no budget for a used tandem fitted for a captain, stokid, and baby carrier. Oh, but a man can dream... Unless there is a commercially available rack which accomodates a trailercycle hitch behind a baby carrier, my solution is to ask a local metal fabrication shop to build a rack.
Has any one else solved this kind of rack problem? I have questions about what structural issues are involved. The bike frame has existing eyelets tapped through the dropouts and two straps clamp around the seat stays to affix the upper extensions of the existing rack. I doubt that braze-ons can be tapped on the seat stays (carbon fiber?) for increased rigidity.
---What are load limits (shear limits?) for the dropout eyelets and seat stay clamps?
i.e., (Dad on bicycle + child in carrier + six year old on trailercycle) X acceleration
---Should I upgrade to the newer Adams Trail-A-Bike hitch and shims?
---Can the design of a custom rack place the baby carrier more aft for better clearance between my spinning shoes and the toddler’s toes? (When she falls asleep, her shoes drift forward.)
---If a pipe is welded in place of the seatpost at the back of the rack should it be plumb or match the typical angle of a seatpost tube?
I have visited the threads here at Bike Forums for two or three weeks and have seen a lot of deep wisdom at the Recreational & Family discussion group and the Tandem discussion group. I read some threads where thinking minds suggested an inexpensive cyclocomputer for the Trail-A-Bike or carrying a spare tube for it. That was a “Eureka!” moment which made me say "I've got to join this."
I am submitting this to Recreational & Family discussion but if you know any one over at Tandem discussion who has an idea, please ask them to have a look-see.
As I read yesterday, "Bike's in good shape, motor needs work."
Best regards and thank you for all your help. --newbie Neal the “VéloSíDad”
VeloSiDad
05-03-04, 08:44 AM
...I have tried what you are suggesting without success. One thought maybe getting a top tube mounted or handlebar mounted child carrier. ...Just where in Carolina are you?
-->VéloSíDad et al live in Durham, North Carolina. The people of the Tarheel State pronounce Beaufort as BO-furt. It's one of the coastal towns with a fishing-based economy. :p I hear that the citizens of the Palmetto State pronounce Beaufort as BYEW-furt.
We went to our LBS yesterday and I saw a top tube mounted carrier. I don't think I would like the reduced field of view. ... My wife also saw a three-wheel recumbent and that started some interesting discussion at home.
... BTW, thank you, DieselDan, ;) for your post on 04-27-04 to the Recreational & Family group entitled "Kickstand for an Adams Trail-A-Cycle". I believe the web address was
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=50856.
[QUOTE=mgagnonlv]
"There are two solutions.
1. ...there are some cheap bike seats that don't use the rack but rather have their own bracket. A common model around here has 2 "U" brackets in cheap tubing."
Reply: I saw on the Internet some of those seats by Kettler, but I am not tall and I didn't see a different way to mount the baby seat.
2. ...I have used extensively a road train made of my bike + trailercycle + child trailer,...it's actually quite stable.
Reply: I appreciate the idea. It might be too long for our urban environment in Durham .
VeloSiDad
05-03-04, 10:09 AM
I was in your quandry two years ago. If you can fabricate something that can handle a carrier and a trailer bike at the same time, you should patent it. It ought to get you some good royalties.
VéloSíDad replies: Last night I thought of leaving the existing rack & baby seat attached. Perhaps a new approach would be a hitch on a support structure attached and shaped like a fender.
1. Use flat metal or a tube to produce a curved form like a fender. Attach this curved form to the existing fender mount on the frame or attach it to the seatstays.
2. The "fender-form" rack would have support struts (i.e., a single tube bent into an inverted U shape or two straight tubes) which attach at the triangular dropouts. Weld the struts to the curved form. ...This rack probably looks like a fender now.
3. Braze a round tube (in lieu of the seatpost) onto a flat load-bearing plate. This new tube + plate would be welded onto the "fender-form" rack below and behind the baby seat. ...This facilitates removing the baby seat if you want a clearer view of the stoker on the Trail-A-Bike®.
4. The Adams Trail-A-Bike® hitch block would slip over the round tube, in lieu of the seatpost.
?? 5. Maybe the "fender-form" rack should be configured to have a flat surface on top where a baby seat can be mounted, thus combining two racks into one. ?? Any advice from fellow readers??
Michel Gagnon
05-03-04, 03:50 PM
"There are two solutions.....
2. ...I have used extensively a road train made of my bike + trailercycle + child trailer,...it's actually quite stable.
Reply: I appreciate the idea. It might be too long for our urban environment in Durham .
Actually, I have used that a lot in Montréal's urban environment. It's mostly on bike paths and multi-use trails that it is a problem.
[Other suggestion...]
Braze a round tube (in lieu of the seatpost) onto a flat load-bearing plate. This new tube + plate would be welded onto the "fender-form" rack below and behind the baby seat. ...This facilitates removing the baby seat if you want a clearer view of the stoker on the Trail-A-Bike.
The Adams Trail-A-Bike hitch block would slip over the round tube, in lieu of the seatpost.
Even if you succed in doing something structurally sound, there are two problems with this setup:
- If there is too much weight on the rear wheel and not enough on the front, the bike tends to oscillate (wobble) a lot and isn't stable anymore. You already have a lot of weight on the rear wheel (baby seat), and add weight behind it (trailercycle); so unless you had very heavy lowrider panniers in front, your bike will wobble a lot.
- Because the hitch point is behind the wheel, the bike won't be stable at high speed.
VeloSiDad
05-06-04, 09:42 AM
...there are two problems with this setup:
- If there is too much weight on the rear wheel and not enough on the front, the bike tends to oscillate (wobble) a lot and isn't stable anymore. You already have a lot of weight on the rear wheel (baby seat), and add weight behind it (trailercycle); so unless you had very heavy lowrider panniers in front, your bike will wobble a lot.
- Because the hitch point is behind the wheel, the bike won't be stable at high speed.
J'ai trouvé au Web des Hollandais qui seraient un peu fous de leurs vélos et de leur capacité métallurgique. Ça roule comme ça au «plat pays» de Jacques Brel. On appuie sur OTHERS et ensuite sur BIBIKE.
I found on the Web some Dutch people who are a little crazy about their bikes et their metalurgical skills. Things roll along like that in the "flat country" of the late singer Jacques Brel. Click on Others and then on Bibike. In one of the flattest countries on Earth, one grown-up can be the tractor for one baby plus two trailercycles.
http://www.fastfwd.nl/eng/index.php
VeloSiDad
05-24-04, 12:07 PM
Cher Michel,
Je vous remercie de me communiquer vos expériences personnelles. Mes sentiments les plus distingués. -- Neal
Dear DieselDan,
Thank you for yours posts regarding trailer-cycles and equipping them. I will send a PM requesting more details on the kickstand which gets modified to fit an Adams Trail-a -Bike®. -- Neal
Fellow Readers,
It's been about three weeks since I last posted anything to this thread. I'm trying to get to the next step. Michel discussed using a child carrier which attaches at the seat tube or the seat post. Following his lead I have looked at child carriers to replace our existing old RhodeGear child carrier. I plan to purchase a Kettler® child carrier,
http://www.kettlerusa.com/page15.html
--either the Dumbo or the Flipper. The Flipper has two detachable baggage compartments; the Dumbo has none. At 19-months-old, Sophie is demanding less bump and more comfort. The Kettler brand seat is supposed to incorporate a certain degree of springiness via the tube shackle (or tube frame).
On the Kettler website there is a parts manual PDF file for the Dumbo,
http://www.kettlerusa.com/Dumbo.pdf
It looks like there is some clearance between the tire and the tube shackle (tube frame supporting the carrier). Maybe I will pursue the notion of fabricating a trailer-cycle hitch which attaches to the seatstays and has a load bearing surface for pivoting below the child carrier. The small photograph in the PDF labeled « max. 10cm » seems to indicate there is enough room for a pivot just forward of the rear wheel axle. If the hitch does not allow me to pull my six-year-old simultaneously, I will just keep on rolling with Sophie in the child carrier.
Kennedy has turned six and has shed the training wheels. He makes it all look like fun. :D
Happy Trails to you!
VéloSíDad
Michel Gagnon
05-25-04, 10:52 PM
Try to see one beforehand. From the photos and PDF, I doubt your plan will work.