Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling - 200k to 400 and 600k

To start the question is it possible or advisable, and any hints, on doing a 400 and then 600 k the following month with only 200k experiences? The 600 is the only one local and it is coming up april 25th. I tried to look a little further out and found ones even earlier in the year.

Just to give an idea of the training I have I have completed 4 200ks this year and just under 1500 miles mostly commuting a 45 mile round trip year to date. I commute on what I use for my brevet bike so I am pretty well adjusted for it.

2 of those 200ks were to go towards my r12. One was for the most part completely solo and the other was with three fellow recumbents and for each the overall time for each was around 9 hours.

The two others I was riding with someone else for their first 200k and stayed with them for the whole ride and they were DNQd but we finished the route. The first one was 16 hours the second was 14 so I have some experience with long rides late into the night.

So am I totally out of my mind or?

I skipped the 300K in my first season of randonneuring because of a work conflict, so I went right from the 200K to the 400 and then rode a 600 and a 1200 in the same season. Last year I went from a 400K to a 1200K without riding the 600 (with dispensation from the organizer). It's doable and not at all crazy, but it is firmly in the "know thyself" category.

Only you know how comfortable you were on your 200K rides and on other centuries and how you felt afterward. Did you feel like you could get back on the bike and ride another 200K? If that thought horrifies you, then probably skipping a 300 would present some challenges. But the fact that you're asking the question suggests that you had more left in the tank, were still having fun, and were confident in your body and your bike to go for another long ride.... The more of a base of miles you have, the easier it'll be to feel strong and confident about skipping distances. Note that I wouldn't recommend big jumps in distance especially for new randonneurs, but sometimes life interferes with a perfect riding or training schedule and accomodations must be made. Good luck!

It can/has been done. Would I have wanted to do it as a newcomer? No.

But we're all different. If you already have a few 200s under your belt, maybe you'll be OK.

The main thing for me is the psychological jump from 200 to 400. Four hundreds can be very difficult as there is no significant break.

The other thing is -- how difficult are the brevets? A flat 400 can be easier than a hilly 300, etc.

I did a Fleche as the first ride of my second season. I had done two 200ks my first season. The Fleche was officially 365k, but we wound up riding about 400k. The Fleche was almost pancake flat with about 7000 feet of climbing.

Texas has turned out to be somewhat more hilly then I had expected on these brevets with the perm I did last weekend turning in at 6000ft plus it was a pretty windy day to boot. I don't know how that compares to other places and it really wasn't all that bad. Down here the main issues for long rides is the sheer quantity of chip seal which ranges from not so bad to boulder seal :(

So far I've been ready to go after the 200ks for more miles. Whether it is for another 200k I think I could but it would be pretty tough. Guess I got 3 weeks to figure this out.

To start the question is it possible or advisable, and any hints, on doing a 400 and then 600 k the following month with only 200k experiences? The 600 is the only one local and it is coming up april 25th. I tried to look a little further out and found ones even earlier in the year. a couple of years ago, I introduced a friend to randonneuring and, like Paul Scearce, he went from a 200k to a 400k Fleche and then did a 300k. He then developed repetitive strain issues with his knee which could possibly be related to the aggressive ride schedule.

So, yeah, as others have said, it's doable, but maybe not preferred.

If I have to offer a hint -- how have you felt about your diet on your 200k's? Pretty happy? One thing I've found with 300k's is that it's been a really good test bed for seeing how my body reacts to food when it's really tired. I don't get to simulate it very well on a 200k since that ride is 'short' enough that I can eat suboptimally before the penalty catches up to me. If I experiment with something that my body doesn't like on a 300k (like, say, cheese) then I'll really feel it when I'm 150 or 160 miles into the ride -- which is fine, since that means I just have to suck it up through 20 or 30 more miles before being done.

On a 400k, though, being a 150 miles in still means having 100 miles left to go ... not exactly the best place to realize that your body's getting tired of Perpetuem or Clif bars or chili after 10 or 12 hours on the bike.

so yeah, think about what sort of fuel you like and you don't like, and try to dial that in on your future training rides.

My position is similar to Evblazer. I am contemplating that next jump with a similar training base. Here is a question for the pros out there. How many miles are you training in the season as you approach 400k & 600k events? What are your long rides and how often? Thanks.

My first randonneuring event was a fleche, after three or four century-long training rides (and year's worth of bike-commuting in all sorts of weather). So jumping to pretty-big miles is certainly feasible.

For me, the 300K is like an unusually long 200K. You certainly learn more, but not a huge amount more. The 400K is qualitatively very different, as a significant portion will be ridden at night. And you have to carry enough food and clothes for 24 hours. That means you'll probably have to make a transition from a warmer day temperature to steadily cooler night temperatures, which can be a challenge. And you have to deal with fatigue and sleepiness. The main thing different about a 600K is that, after all that, and after what is usually a very brief sleep (1-1/2 to 2 hours), you have to drag yourself back onto the bike and get going again.

How many miles are you training in the season as you approach 400k & 600k events? What are your long rides and how often? Thanks.

Checking the logs, the least I've had going into the 400K was 1,500 miles (40% of it LSD), and the most was 2,500 miles (about the same ratio of LSD to commuting and short, hard rides). In the winter I'm doing one or two centuries or 200Ks, and into March and April that increases from anywhere from 2-3 long rides per month to as many as 8. Our 400K here happens in late May. ("Winter" here, meaning freezing temps with snow on the ground, can last into April.) Typical years see a few weekends with back-to-back centuries and one or two "ultra" rides that happens early in the year (the Sebring 24H and Calvin's 12H) occur before the 400K.

To start the question is it possible or advisable, and any hints, on doing a 400 and then 600 k the following month with only 200k experiences? The 600 is the only one local and it is coming up april 25th. I tried to look a little further out and found ones even earlier in the year.

Just to give an idea of the training I have I have completed 4 200ks this year and just under 1500 miles mostly commuting a 45 mile round trip year to date. I commute on what I use for my brevet bike so I am pretty well adjusted for it.

2 of those 200ks were to go towards my r12. One was for the most part completely solo and the other was with three fellow recumbents and for each the overall time for each was around 9 hours.

The two others I was riding with someone else for their first 200k and stayed with them for the whole ride and they were DNQd but we finished the route. The first one was 16 hours the second was 14 so I have some experience with long rides late into the night.

So am I totally out of my mind or?

evblazer,

There are currently two 600K brevets on the LSR schedule. One ACP brevet on 25 April and a RUSA brevet on 17 Oct. There is also a RUSA 400K on 3 Oct. So, if you are concerned about doing a 400K so soon (it is our hilliest 400K route), you could opt to do the 300K on 7 March and continue with additional 200K and 300K brevets and permanents leading up to the 17 Oct 400K followed by the 600K later that month.

We have numerous 300K permanents in North Texas, so getting in 300K practice should not be a problem. Also, we can add additional RUSA brevets to the schedule with about five weeks notice and a volunteer to host the event. Hosting is pretty easy so, if you're interested, contact the RBA and he'll get you set up. You could, for example, volunteer to host a 400K in May before it gets too hot (hopefully).

I've heard it said that if you can do a 200k you are physically capable of completing the entire series. Everything after that is preparation, nutrition, and will power.

evblazer,

There are currently two 600K brevets on the LSR schedule. One ACP brevet on 25 April and a RUSA brevet on 17 Oct. There is also a RUSA 400K on 3 Oct. So, if you are concerned about doing a 400K so soon (it is our hilliest 400K route), you could opt to do the 300K on 7 March and continue with additional 200K and 300K brevets and permanents leading up to the 17 Oct 400K followed by the 600K later that month.

We have numerous 300K permanents in North Texas, so getting in 300K practice should not be a problem. Also, we can add additional RUSA brevets to the schedule with about five weeks notice and a volunteer to host the event. Hosting is pretty easy so, if you're interested, contact the RBA and he'll get you set up. You could, for example, volunteer to host a 400K in May before it gets too hot (hopefully).

I had seen the later 600k but as you noted it is RUSA.. To do a true series doesn't it have to be ACP? At least if I want a pretty merit badge (medal) to put in my cubicle at work to make me wish even more so I wasn't there :o

I had seen the later 600k but as you noted it is RUSA.. To do a true series doesn't it have to be ACP? At least if I want a pretty merit badge (medal) to put in my cubicle at work to make me wish even more so I wasn't there :o

If you're looking for an SR award, you need the four ACP events.

I mentioned it elsewhere but wanted to update this thread that I was able to do the 400k. The outbound leg was mostly alone after I got dropped by the fast folks and was ahead of the people taking a more conservative pace. Coming back I rode with a few folks mostly the whole way back. 21:15 total 18:15 ride time. The controls were much longer on the way back since everyone sat and rested while eating and drinking. On the way out I went in hit the rest room got my water/snack and card signed then mixed my perp and was off.

I had some left knee weakness (not really pain) late in the day after a few miles of contant climbing but I think it was aggrivated mostly from two things that happened earlier. One was going down on my left side due to some gravel after the second control which my side mounted water bottles took most of but I twisted my knee a bit. The second was I hurt my right ankle due to a combination of hitting the lip of the bridge hard with my front wheel and at the same time pushing hard on the pedal.

Waiting to see how I'm doing over the next few days before deciding on the 600k in April. So far Monday I rode 36 miles and today I'm probably going to end up near 50 because I rode into work.