Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) - New Wheelset vs New Rim

hi, im new to the forum, but have probably spent the better half of the past three days searching the threads on info for selecting a wheelset for a clyde like myself (6' & 285 lbs). but i have a question for all of you.

i just bought an 08 specialized roubaix triple (great bike:love:), but the rear wheel will come out of true in less than 50 miles of road riding (no jumps, drops, or hard hits on the speedbumps or traintracks). the bike comes with mavic open sports on straight pull specialized hubs with 28 spokes in the rear and 24 spokes in front. and now my question:

should i replace the whole wheel, or just the rim?

(i ask because i have a limited budget, otherwise id just go out and buy the ksyrium elites my LBS suggested, and happen to keep in stock)

thanks,
jesse

What sort of maintenance has been done to the wheel? Has the tension on the spokes been checked? Has the wheel been stress-relieved?

FYI, I haven't been impressed with any of the Mavic wheelsets I've seen, though admittedly that's mostly been the lower-end wheels. I have been very impressed with the wheels hand-built by Bicycle Wheel Warehouse. I recently bought a cheap ($120) set of wheels for my mountain bike from BWW and they are extremely solid and well-made!

Dude, I would recommend using your current setup until you see problems. A 28 spoke wheel is a bit on the lighter side but there might be enough strength in those wheels to warrant you keeping them until spoke breakage or you have more funds. Your LBS is a joke. Your current setup will handle your weight better than a set of Ksyrium Elites. I am a good 80 lbs lighter than you and I've destroyed a Ksyrium Elite rear wheel on a hill after 10 months of use. Next I went to Neuvations and they lasted a bit longer but the same thing eventually occurred. What I'm trying to say is that at 185 lbs., if you go with less spokes than what you have, expect failure. 32-36 spoke is preferred, but stick with those 28s for as long as you can. Also, if money is really tight, Performance Bike always has Mavic Open Pro 32 spoke wheels with Ultegra hubs for around $300. While I ride Velocity Deep Vs, a friend of mine bought a pair of Open Pros w/ Ultegra hubs from Performance for his Klein and in the three years he's owned them, he hasn't had any problems with them. That says a lot considering he is 6'4, 255 lbs and rides like he's 155.

TO: sstorkel
my LBS did the trueing, and i asked them to check the tension, though im not sure about the work they did. im not sure what stress-relieved means... so idk if they did it.

thanks for the response, and ill be sure to check out BWW
jesse

If you were to just replace the rim, I would go with a Velocity Deep V or DT Swiss RR 1.2 rim.. Both of these are 30mm deep dish rims and will be fine built up to 28 hole..

TO: terbennett
i think you might be right; the LBS just happens to have one set of ksyriums left and they just happen to be the prefect solution to my trueing problem....:notamused: now, that i think about it, it would probably be a good idea to take the wheel to another shop and see what they say.

as i said i have a limited budget, so im probably going to ride what i have until they bust or i can afford a stronger set... but i was thinking of getting a stronger rim and replacing just the rear rim, rebuilding it myself or have a pro due for me. ive seen mavic cxp33's sale for about $85 shipped and dt swiss rr1.2's for about $90 shipped...

thanks,
jesse

p.s. what spoke count does your friend ride on those open pros?

Velocity Deep V or DT Swiss RR 1.2 rim..

thats what i was looking at, or maybe a cxp33

thanks,
jesse

The Deep V or DT Swiss will be stiffer than the cxp33.. The overall quality of the DT Swiss is a little better than the Deep V, but both will will build up a quality wheel..

hi, im new to the forum, but have probably spent the better half of the past three days searching the threads on info for selecting a wheelset for a clyde like myself (6' & 285 lbs). but i have a question for all of you.

i just bought an 08 specialized roubaix triple (great bike:love:), but the rear wheel will come out of true in less than 50 miles of road riding (no jumps, drops, or hard hits on the speedbumps or traintracks). the bike comes with mavic open sports on straight pull specialized hubs with 28 spokes in the rear and 24 spokes in front. and now my question:

should i replace the whole wheel, or just the rim?

(i ask because i have a limited budget, otherwise id just go out and buy the ksyrium elites my LBS suggested, and happen to keep in stock)

thanks,
jesse

A new wheel going out of true in 50 miles isn't unheard of. Have the shop retrue and tension the wheel and ride it some more. If it continues to be a problem, contact Specialized before you go and replace the wheel.

I agree with terbennett, shop is a joke. My 24 rear went out on the parkinglot testride. I asked the shop to retension but they said bring it back in 30 days. OK!:rolleyes: I tensioned it myself and got nearly a year out of it at 220-250.

I found a Deep V and built one myself for the rear. Now at 17,000 miles, I had to slightly true it the other day. 17,000 miles!:thumb:

I like the V's cause they come in assorted colors. They could be found online a couple of months ago for $55. Not sure now with the economy since everything has gone up. FInd a 105 or Ultegra hub (my Ult was and 105's from a torndown wheel).

rear 32 and front 28
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l267/gulpxtreme/Lemond-1.jpg

Also, if money is really tight, Performance Bike always has Mavic Open Pro 32 spoke wheels with Ultegra hubs for around $300. While I ride Velocity Deep Vs, a friend of mine bought a pair of Open Pros w/ Ultegra hubs from Performance for his Klein and in the three years he's owned them, he hasn't had any problems with them. That says a lot considering he is 6'4, 255 lbs and rides like he's 155.

FYI, Bicycle Wheel Warehouse has OpenPro rims laced to Ultegra hubs using DT Comp spokes for $239/set plus shipping. Surprisingly, the CXP33+Ultegra combo is actually more expensive at $255.

TO: sstorkel
my LBS did the trueing, and i asked them to check the tension, though im not sure about the work they did. im not sure what stress-relieved means... so idk if they did it.

If the wheels need truing again, tell the shop that you want them to measure the tension of each spoke using a tool (e.g. Park TM-1) and write it down. You can then look at the numbers and compare them to the instructions for the TM-1 (available online) or advice from your favorite Internet bike forum and decide if the wheels are properly tensioned.

It might also help to remind the shop that you'll be back for truing, tensioning, and spoke replacement for as long as your warranty lasts...

TO: cyccommute
my issue with the wheel is that i got it trued around 3pm and then rode it for maybe 25 miles at 7pm the same day, and at the end of the ride the wheel was so out of true that it wouldnt spin freely; it would come to a dead stop by rubbing against the brake pad.

after that my LBS outright told me that the reason for the problems with my wheel was my weight. they put some threadlock on the nipples and said that the treadlock should help, but then suggested a set of ksyrium elites. truth be told i hope the wheel is still setting and i dont have to replace anything (i think they look pretty sweet :D). but i figured i'd ask...

TO: Mr. Beanz
yeah, finding a good LBS can be difficult. ive visited about eight before buying my second bike...

btw... what frame pump do you have there? been looking for a decent one that can handle 125psi and push enough air that it wouldnt leave me winded just trying to inflate a spare tube...

TO:sstorkel
the LBS i bought the bike at offers one year free maintenance on all new bike purchases, so they know im coming back...

TO: terbennett
i think you might be right; the LBS just happens to have one set of ksyriums left and they just happen to be the prefect solution to my trueing problem....:notamused: now, that i think about it, it would probably be a good idea to take the wheel to another shop and see what they say.

as i said i have a limited budget, so im probably going to ride what i have until they bust or i can afford a stronger set... but i was thinking of getting a stronger rim and replacing just the rear rim, rebuilding it myself or have a pro due for me. ive seen mavic cxp33's sale for about $85 shipped and dt swiss rr1.2's for about $90 shipped...

thanks,
jesse

p.s. what spoke count does your friend ride on those open pros?

CXP33 is one of the best Clydesdale rims there is. Where did you see them so cheap?

CXP33 is one of the best Clydesdale rims there is. Where did you see them so cheap?

check out universalcycles.com:

http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=5107&category=858

Love my Deep V's an might get another set for my Trek 7300.

Couple details, straight gauge spokes on the rear wheel are a good idea for a Clyde. Brass nipples are preferable, less likely to corrode.
http://www.coloradocyclist.com/product/display/25350/

Blackburn frame pump. I've had good luck with Blackburn. This carbon style was $39 but got it for $29 about a month after I bought the bike cause the shope dude didn't have the black alum model, so he gave em adeal. ALos have a silver model for my tandem.

Be sure to get the correct length. There are a few different lengths/sizes.:thumb:

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l267/gulpxtreme/albumnumbertwo/pump2.jpg

TO: cyccommute
my issue with the wheel is that i got it trued around 3pm and then rode it for maybe 25 miles at 7pm the same day, and at the end of the ride the wheel was so out of true that it wouldnt spin freely; it would come to a dead stop by rubbing against the brake pad.

after that my LBS outright told me that the reason for the problems with my wheel was my weight. they put some threadlock on the nipples and said that the treadlock should help, but then suggested a set of ksyrium elites. truth be told i hope the wheel is still setting and i dont have to replace anything (i think they look pretty sweet :D). but i figured i'd ask...



It sounds like the wheel was trued but still not tensioned properly. I would doubt the 'threadlock' solution unless they took the wheel apart and did it. You can't just drip threadlocking compound onto the nipples and hope that it will work its way down into the threads. You have to apply it directly to the threads so the wheel would have to be completely disassembled and rebuilt. That's a whole lot more work than just truing the wheel. Perhaps it will settle in eventually.

I do have to tell you, however...and as delicately as possible:o;)...that your weight is some of the problem. Those wheels weren't designed for the kinds of load that you are putting on them. I ride touring bikes which push the cargo weight on the bike a bit over your weight and I would never ride without 36 spokes on that bike. It's just not worth the hassle of constantly tweeking the wheels to keep them straight or replacing spokes constantly. Even on unloaded bikes, I never go below 32 spokes. Ride these as long as you can but you might want to seriously look into wheels sstorkel referred to. Life would be much easier;)

i have a new development, i was on a trainer last night for maybe forty minutes or so, and i kept hearing different metallic noises coming from the rear wheel area... i checked the wheel as soon as i got it off the trainer and i found three loose spokes and one was so loose i could turn the nipple by hand...

im i right to assume that this shouldnt happen? i mean there was no weight on the wheel, expect the pressure added using the traction adjustment (the knob used to raise or lower the friction wheel to keep it in contact with the tire), and the resistance from the trainer itself... but loose spokes?

at anyrate, im taking the wheel to a different LBS today to see what they say, a friend of mine as great luck with the shop im going to today...

TO: cyccomute
i completely understand that im to much for this wheel to hanlde, thats why i asked about getting a new wheelset...

and i think your right about the treadlock, the LBS tech said that he was going to kept the wheel for about three days to work on it (tear-down, treadlock the nipples, then rebuild). but im not so sure they did the work, because as i said one of the nipples could be turned by hand, which means they probabliy didnt use any treadlock... at least not on that nipple...

Sounds like you need to find a shop with a competent wheelsmith... Or talk the manager at your local shop and explain to him that the mechanic who worked on your wheel is clueless. The wheels you've got may not last forever, but with proper truing and spoke tension they should be good for more than a few hours!

Sounds like you need to find a shop with a competent wheelsmith... Or talk the manager at your local shop and explain to him that the mechanic who worked on your wheel is clueless. The wheels you've got may not last forever, but with proper truing and spoke tension they should be good for more than a few hours!

+1.

Anyone can adjust spoke tension until a wheel is straight, but you need to know what you are doing to tension a wheel properly to have it last any reasonable amount of time. The guy who worked on the OP's wheel does not have this knowledge.

There are two main reasons why spokes loosen:
1. Insufficient tension - every time a wheel rotates, each spoke goes from max tension (at the top) to min. tension (at the bottom). The bigger the rider the wider the range between max and min. The beginning tension, or 'preload' on the spokes must be high enough to keep the tension at the bottom from going to zero or close to zero, because if there is too little tension the nipple can loosen off. THe bigger the rider the greater the tension required to keep the spokes from detensioning at the bottom of each rotation.

2. Spokes were not 'stress relieved' when wheel was built. When a wheel is built, the original angle of the elbow is not quite tight enough to angle the spoke directly from the hub to the rim - instead the spoke exits the hub and has a gentle curve towards the cross in the spokes, and from there it should go straight to the rim. A good wheel builder will apply force to all the spokes to permanently deform them at a tighter angle so the spokes go straight from the hub to the cross, then stright from the cross to the rim.. If this is not done, the tension on the spokes is pulling on the wide angle trying to tighten it (essentially because you can't push a rope). After a while the regular forces of riding will stress relieve the spoke, except then nobody is around to adjust the tension like what happens when the stress relieving is done in the shop before the wheel is finished. Since the spokes are not retensioned, the tension is too low and scenario #1 happens - tension too low.

so i took the wheel to another LBS and had them true and retension the wheel. when i installed the wheel on the bike, i noticed the rim was a bit move to non-drive side of the hub (the clearance in the chainstays was very little on the non-drive side). not sure if this means much, but the tire rubbing during a long ride worries me.

i took a look at the link late posted, the one to colorado cyclist. they have ultegra hubs with either a cxp33 (32 or 36 spoke) or rr1.1 (32 spoke only) for under $200 (not sure about shipping though).

any opinions on the wheels or the site?

so i took the wheel to another LBS and had them true and retension the wheel. when i installed the wheel on the bike, i noticed the rim was a bit move to non-drive side of the hub (the clearance in the chainstays was very little on the non-drive side). not sure if this means much, but the tire rubbing during a long ride worries me.

i took a look at the link late posted, the one to colorado cyclist. they have ultegra hubs with either a cxp33 (32 or 36 spoke) or rr1.1 (32 spoke only) for under $200 (not sure about shipping though).

any opinions on the wheels or the site?

You seem to know how to pick 'em:rolleyes: When the shop tensioned the wheel they messed up the dish (and didn't check it). The dish is to center the wheel in the frame considering that the rear hub is uneven to accommodate the cassette. If they moved it far enough to make the wheel rub on the nondrive side, they really messed up the dish...and the tension. If you paid for it take it back and complain. The wheel needs to be properly true, tensioned and dished!

Colorado Cyclist is a pretty good outfit. I haven't dealt with them much recently but they did a good job when I did shop with them. (I have to pay tax and shipping when I order from them so it's more expensive;))

the tire doesnt rub, it's about a half a centimeter from the chainstay, the drive side is about a full centimeter from the chainstay. i'll go back when i can (full-time undergrad, part-time job, plus family means very little free time)...

i just put about seven miles on a quick lunch break ride and it seems a bit stronger. after the ride it was pretty close to as true as it was when i installed it... (cant be 100% sure without before and after measurements... i just spun it in the brake, and no brake rub)

and im putting away some cash to save up to get either of the wheels i mentioned earlier... two months tops...

thanks

hi, im new to the forum, but have probably spent the better half of the past three days searching the threads on info for selecting a wheelset for a clyde like myself (6' & 285 lbs). but i have a question for all of you.

i just bought an 08 specialized roubaix triple (great bike:love:), but the rear wheel will come out of true in less than 50 miles of road riding (no jumps, drops, or hard hits on the speedbumps or traintracks). the bike comes with mavic open sports on straight pull specialized hubs with 28 spokes in the rear and 24 spokes in front. and now my question:

should i replace the whole wheel, or just the rim?

(i ask because i have a limited budget, otherwise id just go out and buy the ksyrium elites my LBS suggested, and happen to keep in stock)

thanks,
jesse

First, find a wheel builder in your area, and have the wheel properly tensioned and trued, replacing a cheap improperly tensioned wheel with an expensive improperly tensioned wheel, is a waste of money. if you still have problems, have the wheel builder hand build a 3 cross 36 spoke wheel, on a deep V double wall rim, have it built on an UItegra hub. Properly tensioned and trued, you go back to the wheel builder after about 500km/300 miles for a touch up, and your good until you wear out the rim from braking.

A straight pull spoke wheel is not as strong as a crossed spoke wheel, and many people think 28 spokes is a little low, although spoke tension is the key and most shops are not that good at it for larger riders where it becomes more critical.

the hub is straight pull as in it uses straight spokes, no j-bends. it is a 2 cross wheel, not radial...

and i already started looking for a wheel-builder...

the tire doesnt rub, it's about a half a centimeter from the chainstay, the drive side is about a full centimeter from the chainstay. i'll go back when i can (full-time undergrad, part-time job, plus family means very little free time)...

i just put about seven miles on a quick lunch break ride and it seems a bit stronger. after the ride it was pretty close to as true as it was when i installed it... (cant be 100% sure without before and after measurements... i just spun it in the brake, and no brake rub)

and im putting away some cash to save up to get either of the wheels i mentioned earlier... two months tops...

thanks

Before running off and breathing fire on the bike shop, make sure your wheel is in the drops out properly. Nothing worse than someone using the fire extinguisher of your own stupidity on a perfectly good rant:innocent:

so i took the rear wheel to a proper shop, and the mechanic told me that the wheel was already stressed, meaning the tension in the wheel was a bit uneven. he fixed the dish, true, and tension, he basically rebuilt the wheel... it is strong and still riding true...

but, i've ordered these: http://www.bicyclewheelwarehouse.com/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=38
its a set of cxp33's with 32 hole ultegra hubs, 2.0/1.8 butted spokes and alloy nipples

my current wheelset works, but i wanted a set that wouldn't give me issues as i put more miles down, and from all the advice i've collected, from this forum and various bike mechanics, the wheelset i ordered should fit the bill... and apparently the roads around san antonio, tx aren't as smooth as i thought :rolleyes: (i'm coming from mountain biking to road riding, so anything somewhat flat seems smooth to me ;)), so a stronger wheel for someone my weight makes sense on these apparently rough roads...

thank you to everyone who chimed in :beer:

so i took the rear wheel to a proper shop, and the mechanic told me that the wheel was already stressed, meaning the tension in the wheel was a bit uneven. he fixed the dish, true, and tension, he basically rebuilt the wheel... it is strong and still riding true...

but, i've ordered these: http://www.bicyclewheelwarehouse.com/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=38
its a set of cxp33's with 32 hole ultegra hubs, 2.0/1.8 butted spokes and alloy nipples

my current wheelset works, but i wanted a set that wouldn't give me issues as i put more miles down, and from all the advice i've collected, from this forum and various bike mechanics, the wheelset i ordered should fit the bill... and apparently the roads around san antonio, tx aren't as smooth as i thought :rolleyes: (i'm coming from mountain biking to road riding, so anything somewhat flat seems smooth to me ;)), so a stronger wheel for someone my weight makes sense on these apparently rough roads...

thank you to everyone who chimed in :beer:

Nice - BWW did a great job on my Ultegra/OP wheels 32h, but the rim tape they send with the wheels (it will say BWW brand) failed and caused a pinch flat in the first few miles. Just a suggestion to pick up some better tape before you mount the tires. Good luck with the new wheels...

i didn't know they came with rim tape... i had already planned on buying some...

thanks for the heads-up