Bicycle Mechanics - Mixing Road and Mountain Components

Hello,

I have a Bianchi Volpe that was converted straight out of the shop from STI Shifters and other various road components to a flat bar, rapid fire, mostly mountain component bike. The only "road" components are SL-R440 front shifter and the front derailleur. Brakes are Avid Shorty 6.

Two questions:

Was/is it not possible to put a mountain shifter and mountain front derailleur on a 52/42/30 chainring set?

Could I put XT Dual Control shifter/brake pods on this bike? (I just so happen to have a set which I dislike on a mountain bike but would be a huge upgrade to the Volpe. I have the XT Rapid Rise derailleur as well).

What's special about the SL-R440 shifters anyway?

Chuckie

Hello,

I have a Bianchi Volpe that was converted straight out of the shop from STI Shifters and other various road components to a flat bar, rapid fire, mostly mountain component bike. The only "road" components are SL-R440 front shifter and the front derailleur. Brakes are Avid Shorty 6.

Two questions:

Was/is it not possible to put a mountain shifter and mountain front derailleur on a 52/42/30 chainring set?

Could I put XT Dual Control shifter/brake pods on this bike? (I just so happen to have a set which I dislike on a mountain bike but would be a huge upgrade to the Volpe. I have the XT Rapid Rise derailleur as well).

What's special about the SL-R440 shifters anyway?

Chuckie

The issue with using a mountain derailleur on a crankset with a 52 tooth big ring is the curve of the derailleur cage. Mountain derailleurs are designed to work with smaller chainrings and have a smaller radius arc. If you try to use a mountain derailleur in this case, you will have to mount it real high on the seat tube to get it to clear the big chainring. If you do that, you often run into lots of other problems like poor shifting, interference with water cage bolts and chain rub on the bottom of the derailleur cage.

Shimano says not to do it, but I've had good luck matching Rapid-Fire shifters with road front derailleurs. Many factory tandems and "fast hybreds" have come that way for years. The problem you may run into is the brakes. Your XT dual control pods are probably designed for V-brake use and have too much cable pull for your Avid Shorties. Look to see if your brake levers have a leverage adjustment on them. If so, I think that you may be better suited with the "h" position.

Most mountain bike front derailleurs can handle a 48T outer ring, and you might be able to stretch this to a 50-42-30 combination, which will give you good gear ratio progression with 2-tooth development (e.g. 13-15-17-19-...) in back. You might also consider 48-40-30, if a 100-inch top gear is enough for you, as it certainly is for me. (If not, there are always 11- or 12-tooth high gear cogs.)

Personal editorial: I tried a friend's RapidFire shifters and detested them, particularly the front, for which I could not obtain a proper cage position in some gear combinations. I have good friction/index old SunTour XC thumb levers on my mountain bike and use the friction mode.

Most mountain bike front derailleurs can handle a 48T outer ring, and you might be able to stretch this to a 50-42-30 combination, which will give you good gear ratio progression with 2-tooth development (e.g. 13-15-17-19-...) in back. You might also consider 48-40-30, if a 100-inch top gear is enough for you, as it certainly is for me. (If not, there are always 11- or 12-tooth high gear cogs.)

Personal editorial: I tried a friend's RapidFire shifters and detested them, particularly the front, for which I could not obtain a proper cage position in some gear combinations. I have good friction/index old SunTour XC thumb levers on my mountain bike and use the friction mode.

Thank you both for your information. Much appreciated!

I can't stand front derailleurs! Considering what they do, they are ridiculously complicated. On one of my mountain bikes that I revived recently I didn't even put a front derailleur on it opting for the "get your finger dirty" method. I leave it in the middle chanin ring most of the time, low ring for the mountains, and high ring for riding downhill home. Cheap, nothing rubs, in the middle ring you can actually use all 9 gears, weighs VERY little... closer to nothing actually!

I agree with you, John, nothing beats friction shifting for the front derailleur. Nothing. What do you all think-- standardized mounts for front derailleur-- would it work?

Chuckie

Hello,
Brakes are Avid Shorty 6....
Could I put XT Dual Control shifter/brake pods on this bike?
Chuckie

The Shorty's are cantilever's, right? If so, I don't think this combo will work. The XT brake levers are for linear V-brakes and won't give you enough mechanical advantage for canti-lever or caliper brake arms.

The Shorty's are cantilever's, right? If so, I don't think this combo will work. The XT brake levers are for linear V-brakes and won't give you enough mechanical advantage for canti-lever or caliper brake arms.

I just thought I'd update what happened in my big component switcheroo... (I moved Shimano XT Dual Control Shifters and an XT RapidRise derailleur onto a Bianchi Volpe with a flat bar.)

As everyone might expect, the rear derailleur and right shifter worked just fine. The front derailleur is one of those Shimano "Flat Bar" series derailleurs and the new shifters seem to shift fine but I don't have such a great range before rubbing could be heard in the smallest and largest chainrings. I really don't know if it's related to the shifters or I didn't set it up well. I'll take it into my LBS when I have some time. I usually stay in the middle ring anyway.

I did the Santa Fe Century (first century for me) this last Sunday on this new setup and I must say that for flat bar road cycling, the Dual Control shifters are a nice upgrade. Breaking power on the cantilevers was, as predicted, not as strong but I've always wanted to switch over to linear-pulls anyway. The suggestion to put a 48 on the front is a good one. I never use the 52 unless going down a serious hill (there were a few on Sunday). Changing the chainring will let me switch out derailleurs and I'll have a full mountain kit on a road bike. Go figure! Can I even call it a "road" bike after that?

Chuckie

a standard mount would be nice, but we have to think about how that would complicate derailer design as well. Since all derailers have to be matched to a certain rang of components..we very well could end up with LESS part interchangability than we have now.

The other option is having adaptor brackets to fit mtn derailers on road bikes...but good luck on doing the opposite to a mountain bike, since i doubt any mtn bike maker would ever want to use an adaptor as stock equipment on a bike. That's like Ford using an in-dash mount kit for their radios if they don't just make ones that fit.

Not trying to come off rough or anything, just my two and a half cents :)

This is a related quetion - only slightly off-topic.

If one were to put a mtn derailleur on an otherwise 10-speed DA bike, would the 9-speed derailleur work, or crash? This would require a 9-speed mtn cassette. I guess what I'm asking is - which components need to 'agree' with each other? Shifter? Derailleur? Cassette?

Tx.

The shifter, chain and cassette at a bare minimum, since the number of cogs and the space between the cogs (and the width of the chain) need to be th same. Probably also the chainrings, since the width of the gears, front and rear, also need to match for the chain to mesh properly with the gear teeth. Then you have the derailleur pulleys and the differing width of the front derailleur cage...