Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) - Long distance nutrition for a Clyde?

I have perused a lot of information on long distance cycling which is mostly geared for people who weigh significantly less then I. Actually when I look up information on the hammer products that I use (perpetuem/heed/gel) it only goes up to 190 and then it just says 190+. I'm going to send them a note on this also on their specific product but I wondered if anyone had any guidance here.

So far my longest mile ride is <150 and longest ride in time was approximately 16 hours and most rando folks say that you don't really start to feel the effects of bad choices for feeding until after 120 to 140 miles. March 7th I'll be doing a hilly and probably windy 400k (~250 miles) which I estimate will put me on the road at least 24 hours and 110 miles after the bad choice point.

I don't believe I've had any problems on the 4 200ks I have done this year. I probably eat more calories then needed but I really would rather gain a little weight then fail the ride. I mostly just take in half the recommended dose of perpetuem and occasional gels alternating with luna bars. At the controls I have a V8 fusion and some cashews.

Could I be missing something clyde specific for longer rides? I'm hoping the 400k goes well so I can take on the 600k in April.
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Note: Since these rides are unsupported and just have controls/checkpoints at unknown to me gas stations 40-60 miles apart so I mostly have to carry whatever I want to eat/drink for the whole 250 miles. The only thing I can really depend on is stops having some kind of gatorade/poweraid and water. I have yet to see a grocery near any of the routes I have been on.

5'10" and 225 lbs here. I did the 203 mile Seattle-to-Portland (STP) last summer in one day. 12 hours 40 minutes on the bike and total time of about 16 hours. Most of my nutrition was Perpetuem, on occasional gel, Sportleggs for electrolytes along the way, and a few potatoes at the 130 mile mark. The nutrition plan wasn't perfect, but I made it to the end.

You guys's are animals. I don't have half the cajones of either of you. No nutrition advice here, just admiration!

Your digestive tract can only absorb between 250 and 300 food calories an hour (1 food calorie = 1 kilocalorie, for reference to the other system of caloric measurement). Too much bulk, and it can interfere with your hydration, as well, by reversing the osmosis in your intestines, which will result in pulling H2O OUT of the body.

The STP is a supported ride. The first year that I rode the STP I took advantage of the food stops. They had fresh fruit (bananas, oranges, apples) and other types of carbs/protein (dry pbj sandwiches, bagels.) There were cliff bars, other types of energy bars, and a variety sports drinks. However, these things did not sit well in my stomach. I felt uncomfortable, sometimes nauseated, and had some special time spent in the honey buckets.

I received advice from an endurance athlete to pretty much stick to perpetuem. I had never tried it before. He said that it was very easy on the digestive system and didn't have the really sweet gatorade type taste. He said that he used perpetuem pretty much exclusively on his endurance events. I had good luck with it, and I guess I'll continue to recommend it until it fails me.... which I hope it never will. I've only used the vanilla-orange flavor. I have the added challenge of riding with diabetes, but the "perpetuem diet" kept my blood sugars fairly level and I didn't use any insulin on the ride. The one thing that I would maybe add in the future is some beef jerky... more protein and more salt and very lightweight to carry on the bike.

Brevets are unsupported, but your cue sheet should point out gas stations and quickie marts along the way. If your RBA is any good, the cue sheet will be available a couple weeks before the ride and you can map out your nutrition pickups for those stops.

As for carrying all your grub for a 400k, you can do it, but you'll be pretty unhappy with the weight. I started the STP last year with all my chow in my handlebar bag, and I'm a gels/bars guy so it's not like it was a lot of stuff. I rode the STP like a 300k with some extra, and only stopped to fill up on water and hit the can.

I'm 250 pounds, and my schedule was 90 minutes of water and/or Accelerade (orange w/ caffeine). I had eaten a bagel and a couple of sausages for breakfast before leaving for the ride. After 90 minutes, I went into maintenance mode.

Per hour:
- 1 Clif Bar
- 1 Accel Gel or Clif Shot
- 1 Bottle of non-caffeinated Accelerade
- 2 Endurolyte capsules
- 1 ibuprofen (every 4 hours)

I don't ever eat anything all at once, except the gels. Clif Bars and the occaisional bit of fruit get nibbled over the course of the hour. Basically, I grazed from 90 minutes until 14h 45m later when I crossed the finish line. There was one guy I rode with for about 30 miles who finally asked me "Dude, are you ever not eating something?"

I'm doing a 400k in April, and a bunch of 200s and 300s before then, so I'm going to practice eating different things that are more widely available at quickie mart kind of joints. There's always the brevet staples of potato chips and Pepsi, Oreo cookies, chocolate milk, granola bars, and in the extreme hunger cases, I've read of randonneurs eating those dubious hot-dogs from the heat lamp rollers. Heck, read this months American Randonneur article about the guys that do the 3000k Permanent. One morning they talked about splitting 4 pieces of licorice for breakfast before riding another 100k (IIRC) to a restaurant.

I started the STP last year with all my chow in my handlebar bag, and I'm a gels/bars guy so it's not like it was a lot of stuff. I rode the STP like a 300k with some extra, and only stopped to fill up on water and hit the can.

I'm 250 pounds, and my schedule was 90 minutes of water and/or Accelerade (orange w/ caffeine). I had eaten a bagel and a couple of sausages for breakfast before leaving for the ride. After 90 minutes, I went into maintenance mode.

Per hour:
- 1 Clif Bar
- 1 Accel Gel or Clif Shot
- 1 Bottle of non-caffeinated Accelerade
- 2 Endurolyte capsules
- 1 ibuprofen (every 4 hours)



I'm confused on your Accelerade - every 90 minutes (orange w/caffeine)
1 bottle of non-caffeinated Accelerade per hour??

Is there a powder for accelerade? I've only seen it in bottles. 14-15 bottles of Accelerade in your handlebar bag seems like it would have a serious effect on the handling of your bike.

I'm confused on your Accelerade - every 90 minutes (orange w/caffeine)
1 bottle of non-caffeinated Accelerade per hour??

Is there a powder for accelerade? I've only seen it in bottles. 14-15 bottles of Accelerade in your handlebar bag seems like it would have a serious effect on the handling of your bike.
Accelerade Powder (http://www.accelerade.com/products/powder.aspx) or perhaps he has some nice quickie marts that all have accelerade. I found on my last 200k a serious lack of V8 which I was fine with but well apparantely a 200k isn't very far :(

I really like perpetuem and sustained energy mixed in with hammer gel. I will eat a bite of a clif bar at a time slowly over a couple hours and repeat the next wo hours. I really prefer my calories in drink form, I think they are absorbed faster and more readily available for my body. That is just me though, I know others will disagree.

I'm confused on your Accelerade - every 90 minutes (orange w/caffeine)
1 bottle of non-caffeinated Accelerade per hour??

Sorry for the confusion... it made sense when I wrote it.
I ate breakfast. Then for the first 90 minutes of my day, I have 2 bottles on my bike: One of plain water, and one of Accelerade Orange Dreamsicle flavour (with caffeine, because coffee upsets my stomach when I ride, but I need my morning boost.)
After the first 90 minutes of riding, I switch to non-caffeinated Accelerade; usually Fruit Punch flavour.

Is there a powder for accelerade? I've only seen it in bottles. 14-15 bottles of Accelerade in your handlebar bag seems like it would have a serious effect on the handling of your bike.

It comes in powder (I buy it at Performance Bike Shop), and I use Ziploc snack size baggies to carry pre-measured single bottle servings. For STP, I carried 10 of them which turns out to be around 300g total weight, so less than a pound.


NOTE: Those snack-size Ziploc bags are great for just about anything. I carried my Endurolytes and ibuprofen in one, had one with extra chamois cream (a necessity when going over 200k!) and another one with extra sunscreen. They're lighter than carrying a bunch of plastic bottles for everything.

Does the caffeine in the acclerade make you have to pee more? Or do you make sure to drink it pre race and give yourself enough time to empty your bladder?

I'm planning similar, and in talking to folks who do long rides, HEED and Perpetum keep coming up. For the Dirty Kanza 200 (200 miles of gravel in late May) I'm planning on having 3 bottles on the bike at all times - 1 HEED, 1 Perpetum, 1 water and alternating the three until they are all empty (~2 hours). For solids, I stick with granola bars and they've done me well, going to add in some cliff bars and electrolyte tabs.

I'd suggest at some point during the ride having a real meal. On all my long rides that I've had one, it's been a night-and-day difference from the cliff bar diet. Don't overdo it, nothing worse than riding with a overly full belly!

Sorry, nothing to add to the nutrition side, but just wondering how you have your bike set-up? Are you on a dedicated touring bike or a road bike? Raise you bars for comfort? What kind of power do you shoot for? Is it a ride or a race? I've always thought it'd be nice to do some LONG rides, but not sure I could handle the beating the body would take e.g lower back stiffness, neck, shoulders, hands etc..
Thanks and good luck.

Sorry, nothing to add to the nutrition side, but just wondering how you have your bike set-up? Are you on a dedicated touring bike or a road bike? Raise you bars for comfort? What kind of power do you shoot for? Is it a ride or a race? I've always thought it'd be nice to do some LONG rides, but not sure I could handle the beating the body would take e.g lower back stiffness, neck, shoulders, hands etc..
Thanks and good luck.
I'm just one of those super lazy recliner guys ;) I do ride what would be considered a touring model I suppose
I took some pics for a post on another forum last month but here is my setup although I moved my pump under my seat, I changed the dinotte mounting a bit and I'm running fenders occasionaly.
Here is my bike
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_GIFgiCQnK-8/SXeN3dYoM8I/AAAAAAAAAMo/Uf8xopQXLLc/s720/BrevetBike.JPG
Clearer pic.. It seems blurred when not in edit mode (http://lh5.ggpht.com/_GIFgiCQnK-8/SXeN3dYoM8I/AAAAAAAAAMo/Uf8xopQXLLc/s800/BrevetBike.JPG)
Here is what is on my person
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_GIFgiCQnK-8/SZxNgn9xhKI/AAAAAAAAARE/QWigKjfj42s/s800/BrevetGearNoFFReference.JPG

As far as the 400k itself.. The main US governing body of Randonneuring http://www.rusa.org/ probably says it best:
"Randonneuring: Randonneuring is long-distance unsupported endurance cycling. This style of riding is non-competitive in nature, and self-sufficiency is paramount. When riders participate in randonneuring events, they are part of a long tradition that goes back to the beginning of the sport of cycling in France and Italy. Friendly camaraderie, not competition, is the hallmark of randonneuring."

There are time limits though to Qualify on the ride for medals and other merit badge type things all detailed out on RUSA. This is an edited time card from when I rode with my wife on her 2nd 200k. Very hilly, incredibly windy plus alot of bike trouble so we DNQ (did not qualify) at the first control/stop due to time so took a liesurely ride for the rest.
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_g0_wmYkLmkY/SXQFhJbuAaI/AAAAAAAAAMA/vep2lkcSYTE/s400/EditedCard.JPG
Note: The last check in is on the wrong line but we missed it so we didnt' care.


Everytime I think about the possibility of doing it on my road bike or something I remember this photo
http://www.raceacrossamerica.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/arvid.jpg

Sorry, nothing to add to the nutrition side, but just wondering how you have your bike set-up? Are you on a dedicated touring bike or a road bike? Raise you bars for comfort? What kind of power do you shoot for? Is it a ride or a race? I've always thought it'd be nice to do some LONG rides, but not sure I could handle the beating the body would take e.g lower back stiffness, neck, shoulders, hands etc..
Thanks and good luck.

I have done the STP on a touring bike and a road bike. The STP is a 203 mile ride... not a race. The road bike was a significantly better experience. The STP is a supported ride. However, I doubt that most one-day finishers have the organizers carry any bags for them. For distances (less than 250-300 miles) that don't require the rider to carry overnight gear I think I would stick with the road bike. If you need to carry some gear then use a medium sized saddle bag like a carradice pendle. If more is needed, add a small handlebar bag.

My road bike is a "performance" road bike. It is carbon fiber cannondale synapse. The geometry on the synapse is not as aggressive a true racing road frame. My seat is about 1" above the bars. On long rides, I swap the saddle (brooks b-17) from the touring bike and put it on the road bike. It is much more comfortable than the racing saddle (specialized toupe gel.) The brooks saddle works much better with a carradice saddle bag also. The cannondale synapse is the frame that team liquigas rides in the Paris-Roubaix road race. Much of that race is ridden on cobblestones and apparently the synapse frame provides for a little more comfortable ride than the normal racing frames they use on better roads. I appreciate the fact that my synapse is about 10 lbs lighter than the touring bike. It's also stiffer and more efficient on climbs. The touring bike is steel and gobbles up vibration a little better than the carbon fiber synapse frame. If my road frame were aluminum, I might consider using the touring frame anyway because my experience with my aluminum frame was brutal - I felt every pebble. That might be different now as many aluminum frames come with carbon fiber seat stays and/or chain stays.

I'm just one of those super lazy recliner guys ;) I do ride what would be considered a touring model I suppose
I took some pics for a post on another forum last month but here is my setup although I moved my pump under my seat, I changed the dinotte mounting a bit and I'm running fenders occasionaly.
Here is my bike
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_GIFgiCQnK-8/SXeN3dYoM8I/AAAAAAAAAMo/Uf8xopQXLLc/s800/BrevetBike.JPG

WOW! The only thing missing on that rig is a motor-assist and directv! I've never tried a recumbent, but I've ridden with several riders that have them and swear by them. They seem to move along pretty well on the flats and downhill, and then struggle a bit on the climbs. How heavy is that bike the way you have it set up? How expensive is a bike like that?

WOW! The only thing missing on that rig is a motor-assist and directv! I've never tried a recumbent, but I've ridden with several riders that have them and swear by them. They seem to move along pretty well on the flats and downhill, and then struggle a bit on the climbs. How heavy is that bike the way you have it set up? How expensive is a bike like that?

Mine is an older model that I picked up on ebay for about $900 complete with a second set of wheels. The bags cost a little over $100 all together and everything else is just standard bicycle stuff.
Last I looked a new non superlight (SL) version of my bike ran around 2k.

The bike has Dual 406 (20") wheels and a rear suspension which works really well smoothing out the ride and keeping the bike on track without eating up power. This old challenge hurricane just fits me right and let me really crank up those hills compared to some other recumbents I have tried although I probably could tackle some steeper hills on my road bike then I'd try on my recumbent. I also have a 08' Bacchetta Giro 26" that I put over 4500 miles on last year that will be finding a new home because I just can't climb on it and the chip and seal roads kill me when I ride it on longer rides.

Weight wise I believe it is in the upper 40s loaded down which is a big improvement over my 70+lb giro in commuting mode. They list the challenge hurricane sport at 33 at the challenge site, hurricane SL is 21. There are so many different kinds of recumbents in all different shapes, sizes and weights it sometimes drives me nuts.
Everyone I know seems to be going Long wheel base down here. Here is one of the bikes I ride with. RANS X-Stream. This particular bike is barely over 20. I think locally there are at least 3 more on order and someone purchased the prototype. 5 is a low number but considering the population of recumbents in my area it is a ton.
http://www.angletechcycles.com/XstreamTorreyProfile380.jpg