Fifty Plus (50+) - OT: These tough economic times...

Watching your retirement account evaporate over the last couple of years: Discouraging

Having most of your client engagements which were scheduled for 2009 put on hold or cancelled: Depressing

Taking the car in for a new belt and coming out with an estimate of $2,400 + tax for a variety of things that were discovered and can't be ignored: Priceless.

At least your dealership understands these economic times...:D

In the last 6 weeks I have been hit by:
- $600 repair to a car
- $500 repair to a car
- $1800 unexpected aid to a child
- $2800 for a new furnace
- $800 for a new water heater

It has been very depressing. But at least I've been able to handle it and still have a job. I have friends who have lost jobs and live in areas of high unemployment, who don't know how they are going to get through it.

Losing both a furnace and a water heater within a 2 week span, was tough. When I found the pool of water under my water heater, as it sat next to my brand new furnace, I was not a happy camper.

But I guess this has been good for the economy.

The continuing job losses are astounding. They just announced another record week of losses. One thing that is not mentioned in the media is that once unemployment runs out then the unemployed simply drop off the statistics. The real unemployment numbers are significantly higher.

This is a different time of high unemployment in that there are very few companies that are hiring so when someone looses their job it's very difficult to find any type of job.

Be thankful to still have job.

Watching your retirement account evaporate over the last couple of years: Discouraging

Having most of your client engagements which were scheduled for 2009 put on hold or cancelled: Depressing

Taking the car in for a new belt and coming out with an estimate of $2,400 + tax for a variety of things that were discovered and can't be ignored: Priceless.

The up-side? More time for cycling.

I am amazed that 50+ has this viewpoint. Have you not been through hard times before? I know I have. 2 young kids, house loan due, and laid off! Somehow things worked out. Why not this time around.

Everyone thinks things should stay the way they are(were) and the only thing that is really constant is things change. During the good times of 1976 I took a job as a janitor to feed the family. Most of our kids have no clue as to what hard times really are and the same could be said true of us in relation to our parents.

Ride more complain less.

Watching your retirement account evaporate over the last couple of years: Discouraging


The stock market should eventually come back, so there's a good chance that this account will recover most, if not all, of its losses. Just hold on.

watching your retirement account evaporate over the last couple of years: Discouraging

having most of your client engagements which were scheduled for 2009 put on hold or cancelled: Depressing

taking the car in for a new belt and coming out with an estimate of $2,400 + tax for a variety of things that were discovered and can't be ignored: a blow to the gut!

fify!

;)

BTW been there done that...

I am amazed that 50+ has this viewpoint. Have you not been through hard times before? I know I have. 2 young kids, house loan due, and laid off! Somehow things worked out. Why not this time around.

Everyone thinks things should stay the way they are(were) and the only thing that is really constant is things change. During the good times of 1976 I took a job as a janitor to feed the family. Most of our kids have no clue as to what hard times really are and the same could be said true of us in relation to our parents.

Ride more complain less.

You too? When I left the Jet Engine Industry (left=get out) during the big layoffs of 1992 I also worked as a custodian for a while before selling sterio equipment in an electronics retail establishment.

In the end, I developed another set of skills and moved on to other jobs. The lesson learned was that anything can change at any time but life goes on. At the age of 62, if I am layed off again (a not totally unlikely circumstance given the nature of the company that owns my workplace) I will bounce once more. After all, who could resist the resume of a bicycle building, auto mechanic, software engineer, heavy equipment salesman who can clean a toilet or put equipment into orbit......:D

Most people would be amazed at what they can do once they break the thought process that locks them to the last job. It may not be easy, it may be necessary to move or to work in a different part of the country from where your family lives, but there are still an awful lot of jubs in this country looking for good people to take them.

Watching your retirement account evaporate over the last couple of years: Discouraging

Having most of your client engagements which were scheduled for 2009 put on hold or cancelled: Depressing

Taking the car in for a new belt and coming out with an estimate of $2,400 + tax for a variety of things that were discovered and can't be ignored: Priceless.

I retired early in 2006 because I couldn’t ethically do some of the things upper management wanted me to do to some of my loyal employees. I thought I had every things planned out pretty well. I took a job in 2007 that would cover my housing and automotive expenses. I saw some of this coming at the last minute and decided it was time to hunker down into survival mode. I retired for good. I sold the mountain home. Paid off all my bills. Moved to where we live now in the desert because the place is paid for. I drive about 50 to 60 percent less and took up cycling to replace golf and some other sports (read cost intensive) I used to do. Now on a fixed income it takes a lot more planning than it used to but I believe I am happier. That doesn’t mean I don’t worry about the economy it only means I know I can find a way to get by. It just might not be the way I had dreamed I would live before I retired. My worry is for those that never seemed to plan for the future and bought way beyond their means.

My worry is for those that never seemed to plan for the future and bought way beyond their means.

Hey, I resemble that remark! At least the not planning part, I never had a problem spending too much because I never had much income. Last year I made 20% less than the year before and this past Monday they told us they are cutting our pay rate by 10%.
Things are different this time, there aren't a lot of jobs to go to . In my business, auto repair, it's slow all over. If this place closes, a real possibility, I don't know where I would go.
It would be great if I could find a place to rent cheaper than the place I have.

Hey, I resemble that remark! At least the not planning part, I never had a problem spending too much because I never had much income. Last year I made 20% less than the year before and this past Monday they told us they are cutting our pay rate by 10%.
Things are different this time, there aren't a lot of jobs to go to . In my business, auto repair, it's slow all over. If this place closes, a real possibility, I don't know where I would go.
It would be great if I could find a place to rent cheaper than the place I have.

I understand how you feel. That is why I still take my car to my local mechanic even if there are some things I could do myself. I don't want them to have to close. Part of that is because I don't want to have to look for one if there is something I can't fix myself.


But I have tried to always buy within my income and for years have learned to do without some of the toys many of my friends have. Not all of those people were buying over their heads but some did and they are the ones I worry about in this economy. Because like you said, there aren't many jobs to replace the ones we are losing. But there are places people can’t cut back on, groceries are a prime example.

Taking the car in for a new belt and coming out with an estimate of $2,400 + tax for a variety of things that were discovered and can't be ignored: Priceless.

Sure makes you appreciate your bicycle don't it. And with all those cancelled appointments, you have more time to ride.

On the plus side, I'm grateful for a couple of things that haven't happened. My niece didn't get laid off by Starbucks, and my nephew didn't get redeployed to Iraq.

Even those of us who thought we were smart and planned out the future got euchred by companies like mine changing their commitments such as eliminating health care coverage and reducing pension plans to retirees.

The wife and I seem to be replotting our escape every year now, and it finally looks like we've been "benifit reduced" into perpetual non-retirement. The CEO and the V.P.s, etc. are well taken care of, but the rest of our workforce has gotten pretty beaten up financially. We (at my company) now are in a mode of just riding out the wave till it hits the beach (the company eliminates us...annual layoffs happen every six months now), picking up the pieces and hoping for the best.

Our futures have been written off for the "Good of the Company"! All hail the company!

I have been out of work for 7 weeks, the first gap in a 32-year continuous career in consulting engineering and electronics. I was laid off in 1999, but I had 6 interviews and 3 offers within just over 2 weeks. I have been networking and applying for various full-time, part-time, and contract/temporary positions, indicating each time that I am extremely flexible regarding compensation. Yes, all of us have been through hard times before -- my wife and I used to live on $6K to $8K/year in the mid 1970s, when she was a substitute teacher ($35/day) and I was a starving grad student -- but the current employment situation is by far the worst I have ever seen. The discouraging part is that job creation is always the last stage of an economic recovery -- the stock market has to recover first, and I expect us to be skidding and bouncing along the current bottom for much of 2009.

The bright note is that I can easily handle 2 or 3 years of unemployment with cash on hand -- this is my wife's reward for putting up with 35 years of my Scottish penny-pinching. (Copper wire was invented by two Scotsmen fighting over a penny.)

I had already figured out that I would be working until I'm 75 (by choice) before the economic crap times hit us. That now seems less goofy and more sensible. The wife/stoker recently went back to work halftime in a hospital lab and I am an RN working in risk management for a large hospital system so we shouldn't lack for work. I hope I can continue to stimulate the economy on a small scale by, too often, going online to command UPS/FedEx to bring me bicycle stuff.

Got laid off last week first time in 16 years as a machinist. I only have found 6 jobs to apply for here in the Portland area man times are tough. I can survive on umemployment for some time I seen it coming and have some money in the bank. 3 years ago I moved up here with no job and 12 interviews lined up and got 5 more interviews when I arrived and was able to pick and choose were I wanted to work know havn't even had a offer I know its only been a week but in the past only took a few days to get a job.

Watching your retirement account evaporate over the last couple of years: Discouraging

Having most of your client engagements which were scheduled for 2009 put on hold or cancelled: Depressing

Taking the car in for a new belt and coming out with an estimate of $2,400 + tax for a variety of things that were discovered and can't be ignored: Priceless.

Whoa! It sounds like you've hit the poop tri-fecta. I hate when that happens.

One of the nice things about driving a school bus is that it requires a certification that not everybody can get and it can't be out-sourced off shore. On-the-other-hand our state legislature is talking about allowing 4 day school weeks. I'm thinking it's going to happen. That would mean a 20% pay reduction but more time for bicycling.

Our futures have been written off for the "Good of the Company"! All hail the company!

Well, at least you are taking it well!

:rolleyes:

I have had four jobs in the last year and half, been laid off from all, have sent out probably thirty resumes to different companies that were in my field and had a job available, have had exactly one interview. HR lady told me I should consider that lucky for there was over two hundred resumes for this one job. They chose four to interview, she called yesterday to inform me that they chose someone else. My unemployment runs out in a month although they say I will get a extension. Sure hope warm weather gets here soon so I can at least hit the rode and not think about this all the time. At least my wife has a secure job and I now am on her insurance but she doesn't make enough to cover all the bills.

When a good time turns around
You must whip it
You will never live it down
Unless you whip it
No one gets their way
Until they whip it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xbt30UnzRWw

I just remembered where I got the inspiration for my riding kit.

.... My worry is for those that never seemed to plan for the future and bought way beyond their means.

What about those that never were able to make more than it took just to get by week to week, month to month? You know, those without plasma t.v.s or high speed internet. Those for whom dinner at Applebee's is an annual event reserved for celebrating the fact that finally *this* month, the rent & utiities (credit card? what credit card?) are paid up with enough cash left to celebrate the fact.

There are many people like that. People who couldn't buy "beyond their means" if they wanted to, and whose idea of "planning for the future" is planning on whether to pay the electric bill or the water bill or see the dentist.

Those are the people to worry about, and there are millions of 'em.

My job is only reasonably secure, and I'm so glad I've got it. Things are tight too. I just bought the Big Blue Bicycle Repair Book, felt like saying to the LBS... "sorry, but I can't afford $30.00 for you to replace a spoke". Even my $30.00 per month and the fact that I bought my latest tyres elswhere for $20.00 less, has gotta impact on them and their families. I guess much of the world is finding it's getting too hard to be supportive. I'm not as optimistic as some of you guys.

End Ramble

I retired early in 2006 because I couldn’t ethically do some of the things upper management wanted me to do to some of my loyal employees. I thought I had every things planned out pretty well. I took a job in 2007 that would cover my housing and automotive expenses. I saw some of this coming at the last minute and decided it was time to hunker down into survival mode. I retired for good. I sold the mountain home. Paid off all my bills. Moved to where we live now in the desert because the place is paid for. I drive about 50 to 60 percent less and took up cycling to replace golf and some other sports (read cost intensive) I used to do. Now on a fixed income it takes a lot more planning than it used to but I believe I am happier. That doesn’t mean I don’t worry about the economy it only means I know I can find a way to get by. It just might not be the way I had dreamed I would live before I retired. My worry is for those that never seemed to plan for the future and bought way beyond their means.

This is exactly what I did and within that time line. Although I did not have the, "mountain home", and had no debt, we decided to hunker down. For hobbies I also returned to biking replacing many miles in a car. I also took up making beer, an absolutely wonderful hobby with many benefits.

The economic times we are experiencing right now are different than the recessions of my past. I don't believe there will be a short turn around, nor do I believe the jobs will return at the same level of pay/benefits.

Do things differently, view the world differently and you will be happy.

In the last 6 weeks I have been hit by:
- $600 repair to a car
- $500 repair to a car
- $1800 unexpected aid to a child
- $2800 for a new furnace
- $800 for a new water heater

It has been very depressing. But at least I've been able to handle it and still have a job. I have friends who have lost jobs and live in areas of high unemployment, who don't know how they are going to get through it.

Losing both a furnace and a water heater within a 2 week span, was tough. When I found the pool of water under my water heater, as it sat next to my brand new furnace, I was not a happy camper.

But I guess this has been good for the economy.

And you are cutting your work hours by 25%??

In the last 6 weeks I have been hit by:
- $600 repair to a car
- $500 repair to a car
- $1800 unexpected aid to a child
- $2800 for a new furnace
- $800 for a new water heater

It has been very depressing. But at least I've been able to handle it and still have a job. I have friends who have lost jobs and live in areas of high unemployment, who don't know how they are going to get through it.

Losing both a furnace and a water heater within a 2 week span, was tough. When I found the pool of water under my water heater, as it sat next to my brand new furnace, I was not a happy camper.

But I guess this has been good for the economy.

I've found in the past that major repairs seem to group together:( At least my $1200 car repair, $1000 furnaces repairs (yes, two of them) and the $800 new water heater happened before I retired.

Years ago I returned from the grocery when the exhaust system fell off my car as I pulled into the drive. I entered a cold house and called a repairman only to discover I needed a new furnace. While waiting for the furnace to be installed I decided to do some laundry. The washer wouldn't spin and I had to call another repairman. All this happened one day after my divorce:(

I've found in the past that major repairs seem to group together:( At least my $1200 car repair, $1000 furnaces repairs (yes, two of them) and the $800 new water heater happened before I retired.

Years ago I returned from the grocery when the exhaust system fell off my car as I pulled into the drive. I entered a cold house and called a repairman only to discover I needed a new furnace. While waiting for the furnace to be installed I decided to do some laundry. The washer wouldn't spin and I had to call another repairman. All this happened one day after my divorce:(

Talk about bad Karma!.

I have been out of work for 7 weeks, the first gap in a 32-year continuous career in consulting engineering and electronics. I was laid off in 1999, but I had 6 interviews and 3 offers within just over 2 weeks. I have been networking and applying for various full-time, part-time, and contract/temporary positions, indicating each time that I am extremely flexible regarding compensation. Yes, all of us have been through hard times before -- my wife and I used to live on $6K to $8K/year in the mid 1970s, when she was a substitute teacher ($35/day) and I was a starving grad student -- but the current employment situation is by far the worst I have ever seen. The discouraging part is that job creation is always the last stage of an economic recovery -- the stock market has to recover first, and I expect us to be skidding and bouncing along the current bottom for much of 2009.

The bright note is that I can easily handle 2 or 3 years of unemployment with cash on hand -- this is my wife's reward for putting up with 35 years of my Scottish penny-pinching. (Copper wire was invented by two Scotsmen fighting over a penny.)

Same boat John... I am out as of March 5th... company closing the doors. The other senior staff and engineers within the company are reporting few if any "nibbles" to resumes... it seems new grads are getting the only calls and even then, not much.

I figure the market is going to continue the downward trend for a couple quarters as all of this bad news is fully realized. Housing prices, the market and unemployment numbers need to stabilize before before we start to see any turnaround.

I'm planning to call this a "sabbatical" after my 34 years of continuous employment... gonna do some drive and bike trips around the country... camping as much as possible. I figure time is on my side, may as well take advantage. In the past when I intentionally moved from one company to another, I usually took advantage of the opportunity to take a longer break and go on cycling tours. I figure this is just another "opportunity."

I have only been involuntarily out of work once before, and like you... the offers came pretty quick. I remember being the interviewer back during the early '80s when there were loads of engineers knocking on our door for a couple of positions... times were tough then, and you heard it in the responses from applicants, but this feels much much worse.

HI,
I am not so sure we are going to see a turn around, until we start using made in the usa, stop using credit cards 10 times what we can afford, and start caring about other people who live and work around us.
Why is the all the industry moving to China, to make more money. Why are all the good cars imported cause to many workers in the USA were paid higher than average wages. So now the market has crashed to much greed and speculation with money mongers jumping in and out of stock at the drop of the hat to make a profit on others losses. And how many companies has Walmart caused to go bankrupt selling mostly made in china and many of their fish products are from china where fish feeding practices may increase exposure to mercury.
ANd then ther'e a whole new kind of greed selling houses above market value to people who can't afford them just to make a sale and pocket the profit. And how much money can we throw at Iraq and Afghanistan not sure the Taliban worries about that.
Alot has to change nots sure it can improve till we stop trying to get rich off other peoples losses.
Doug

HI,
I am not so sure we are going to see a turn around, until we start using made in the usa, stop using credit cards 10 times what we can afford, and start caring about other people who live and work around us.
Why is the all the industry moving to China, to make more money. Why are all the good cars imported cause to many workers in the USA were paid higher than average wages. So now the market has crashed to much greed and speculation with money mongers jumping in and out of stock at the drop of the hat to make a profit on others losses. And how many companies has Walmart caused to go bankrupt selling mostly made in china and many of their fish products are from china where fish feeding practices may increase exposure to mercury.
ANd then ther'e a whole new kind of greed selling houses above market value to people who can't afford them just to make a sale and pocket the profit. And how much money can we throw at Iraq and Afghanistan not sure the Taliban worries about that.
Alot has to change nots sure it can improve till we stop trying to get rich off other peoples losses.
Doug

I agree with your first paragraph.

I don't know where you live that houses are still selling at inflated prices. We had that around here 3-5 years ago, and now we're in one of the highest foreclosure markets in the state and one of the top 10 in the country. Prices have dropped to 2000 levels; in some areas, prices are the same as they were a decade ago. This is the market for first-time home buyers and investors. Lending standards have tightened up so much that even highly-qualified buyers can be refused loans. We aren't likely to see the times where if you could fog a mirror you could get a loan.

As for your last sentence -- in any economy there are people who behave as you describe. I'm be one of them -- I'm selling foreclosed homes and short-sale homes and working my patootie off -- but if I don't take advantage of the market, I'll be out of business. There's nothing cold-hearted or greedy about what I do. I have a lot of compassion for those who are losing their homes, whose lives are turning upside-down. It's heart-rending to be in front of a family who are going to be homeless in 30 days. Would I change their circumstances if I could? You bet! I wish I could. Sometimes the best I can do is help someone avoid foreclosure and keep their credit from taking a walloping.

The bright spots are putting people into homes who had no hope of buying before this last year or so. That's why I do what I do. Someone will always profit from another's misfortune. It's the way of the world.

What about those that never were able to make more than it took just to get by week to week, month to month? You know, those without plasma t.v.s or high speed internet. Those for whom dinner at Applebee's is an annual event reserved for celebrating the fact that finally *this* month, the rent & utiities (credit card? what credit card?) are paid up with enough cash left to celebrate the fact.

There are many people like that. People who couldn't buy "beyond their means" if they wanted to, and whose idea of "planning for the future" is planning on whether to pay the electric bill or the water bill or see the dentist.

Those are the people to worry about, and there are millions of 'em.

Not so sure. People live below their means at almost any income level. And people live above their means at almost any income level too. Just watch the sports stars that made millions per year go bankrupt. I know many people that live paycheck to paycheck, and some of them make A LOT of money. Its just that they spend even more.

The key is to be realistic about your income, and develop a lifestyle that costs slightly less than that income. If your income is too low, then look short term into second and third jobs, and long term on how to get your skills and value up so that you can make a higher income. So many people take on costs in their lives as minimum entitlements: cell phones, cable TV, etc. These all drive the cost of living higher.

I started saving for retirement at age 22, by living beneath my income. I never counted on my employer to provide me retirement income or medical insurance, so as those were phased out, it did not change my plan.

It all starts with a written game plan, a monthly budget, done ahead of time (before the month begins). Spend it on paper first, you will find the leaks.

Be careful with the political comments. You wouldn't want to get labeled a rude and obnoxious boor if you stepped on someone's toes.

I shop at Walmart because things are very affordable there. I like to say hi to all the Americans they employ there.

Too bad I was stupid and paid off my home mortgage as quickly as I could. I could use the bail-out money now.

Taking the car in for a new belt and coming out with an estimate of $2,400 + tax for a variety of things that were discovered and can't be ignored: Priceless.
So ditch the car. Why would you need it on Pitcairn Island anyway? :)

So as illegeal as it may be, it appears that our moronic supervision is going to force all of us retirement elligble folks out the door. My 401-K has suffered but it's not all that bad, down approx 11% from Jan '08 once all of 2008's contributions are factored in. It won't be easy with a sick wife and two daughters in only the second year of college but we think we might be able to survive if we take my Employer furnished Defined Annuity (<30K/yr.) and roll the 401-K into a guaranteed annuity plan through our bank (assuming that program has survived). We'll be looking at a 35% reduction in our income until I find other work...of course even a minimum wage full time job ($7.15 / hr. in this state) would make up that difference.

I wonder if writing that $11,000 check against my Home Equity Line of credit for the used truck two months ago is going to haunt us.....well, I'll always have a vehicle to pay for I guess.

So, has anyone here ever had any experience with these guaranteed annuity plans? Supposedly you invest an originating amount and collect six percent interest on it and regardless of what happens to the economy the original amount is waiting for you when you turn 85 years old. Six percent of the original amount is the minimum I'ld collect each year, guaranteed. Sounds too good to be true.

I'll keep you posted.

So, has anyone here ever had any experience with these guaranteed annuity plans? Supposedly you invest an originating amount and collect six percent interest on it and regardless of what happens to the economy the original amount is waiting for you when you turn 85 years old. Six percent of the original amount is the minimum I'ld collect each year, guaranteed. Sounds too good to be true.



The payment guarantee is only as good as the future stability of the financial institution that is issuing the annuity.

Given the turmoil in the financial world these days, personally I'd be uncomfortable putting a major portion of my retirement funds into a single financial instrument. A recent article I read re:annuity suggested it's worth considering for *part* of your money but that other portions should be put elsewhere.

In my opinion, particularly now, it's worthwhile to be diversified both in the types of investments you have and in the institutions where your money is invested.

I guess I'm extremely lucky. I own a small business selling to the oil field. Oil has gone from $147 to $39+/- and natural gas has gone from $13+ to $4+/- and business is still great. Backlog is a little smaller, but inventory goes out just as fast as I can get it ready. I have had record sales the last two months. Why????? I really don't know other than I put out a great and dependable product. I'm 62 and love my work and plan to NEVER retire as long as I'm able to work. As to the retirement account--down over 50% on the stocks. I invest like I won't need the money for at least 10 years, so I'm in some high beta stock--mostly oil related. KMP, KGS, KWK, RIG, NAT, PBT, VZ, MO. Love those dividends!! Oil will come back. Been through these cycles many many times. Maybe we should start "The Great Investing Thread" to share investment advice--but don't listen to mine--I'm down--glad no retirement plans are made.

The payment guarantee is only as good as the future stability of the financial institution that is issuing the annuity.

Given the turmoil in the financial world these days, personally I'd be uncomfortable putting a major portion of my retirement funds into a single financial instrument. A recent article I read re:annuity suggested it's worth considering for *part* of your money but that other portions should be put elsewhere.

In my opinion, particularly now, it's worthwhile to be diversified both in the types of investments you have and in the institutions where your money is invested.

Our fears and sentiments exactly! I'm anxious to get to the bank to see how the annuity plans fared during the first part of this downturn. It will be interesting to see if the "Advisor" is as enthusiatic about them as he was two years ago when we first investigated them.

Our original battle plan is to collect about 1/3 income from the Employers Defined Annuity, 1/3 from a guaranteed annuity (our 401-K rollover), and 1/3 from Social Security. The numbers may vary but the diversity seems sound, at least to us anyway. Time will tell.

Thanks for the thoughtful input.

Last year's mortality reminder seems to have me less bothered about a lot of this. But it hasn't been a lot of fun watching what has been happening at work. Most hourly employees worked 9 hour days, and many worked lots of Saturdays. First the Saturdays were eliminated, then weekdays were cut to 8 hours. I hope it doesn't get below that. I'm salaried, so I'm still on 9 hour days, but the place looks awfully deserted before I get out of there in the afternoons.

I, too, seem to be blowing a lot of money, lately. My wife's business has been so slow that I'm paying some stuff she used to always pay. I bought her an expensive bike last week. I bought a new refrigerator last month. I paid doctor bills of my wife's the last two months, in addition to my own, etc, etc. But the bikes and boat are all paid for, so things can't be too bad, right?

So, has anyone here ever had any experience with these guaranteed annuity plans? Supposedly you invest an originating amount and collect six percent interest on it and regardless of what happens to the economy the original amount is waiting for you when you turn 85 years old. Six percent of the original amount is the minimum I'ld collect each year, guaranteed. Sounds too good to be true.

"Lifetime guarantee" means the lifetime of the company offering the guarantee.

So ditch the car. Why would you need it on Pitcairn Island anyway? :)

Sometimes a car is a necessity...

http://www.126.com.au/images/upload/car-island.jpg

Sometimes a car is a necessity...

http://www.126.com.au/images/upload/car-island.jpg
:lol::lol::lol:

Oregon's Governor Kulongoski is offering to cut his own pay by 5% and asking teachers to work for free for a few days so that the state doesn't have to shorten the school year:

http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2009/02/kulongoski_to_teachers_work_fo.html

Wouldn't this be a good idea? Perhaps we could go to a barter system as well. I have some books from my library I'll trade for, say, a dozen eggs. Lots of bike stems of varying lengths lying around too.

A footnote: Gov. Kulongoski makes $97,000 a year. The superintendent of the school district I work for makes twice that. Go figure.

I've accepted some payment-in-kind in my medical practice. Unlike Tom Daschle, I report the cash value of the payments so that the IRS can tax them.

I retired early in 2006 because I couldn’t ethically do some of the things upper management wanted me to do to some of my loyal employees.

though I am still employed @ 57 and I am thankful for the job i have right now, I am in kind of the same situation that you retired from.

this last week I have written up to employees, i am a manager with a distributor and one individual told me to go F**K myself and and another told me i am an old man and flicked my collar. {old man besides the point** so yesterday in a H.R meeting /investigation a fairly new H.R manger and 2 V. Pres in on the meeting I felt they questioned by integrity and grilled me like it was my fault.
So I just stood up and said this meeting is done,you have my statments and e/mails and witnesses. I was politiely asked to sit back down,so I did. Not a smart move on my part for standing and wanting too leave ,though I did aapologize for my act.
so all and all I do expect a termination, after 3 audits this week, but actually I am ready to retire and just will not compromise my belief system. between my other business/VA disability, savings and IRA/401 I believe we will make do and everything will work out alright.
time will tell

So as illegeal as it may be, it appears that our moronic supervision is going to force all of us retirement elligble folks out the door. My 401-K has suffered but it's not all that bad, down approx 11% from Jan '08 once all of 2008's contributions are factored in. It won't be easy with a sick wife and two daughters in only the second year of college but we think we might be able to survive if we take my Employer furnished Defined Annuity (<30K/yr.) and roll the 401-K into a guaranteed annuity plan through our bank (assuming that program has survived). We'll be looking at a 35% reduction in our income until I find other work...of course even a minimum wage full time job ($7.15 / hr. in this state) would make up that difference.

I wonder if writing that $11,000 check against my Home Equity Line of credit for the used truck two months ago is going to haunt us.....well, I'll always have a vehicle to pay for I guess.

So, has anyone here ever had any experience with these guaranteed annuity plans? Supposedly you invest an originating amount and collect six percent interest on it and regardless of what happens to the economy the original amount is waiting for you when you turn 85 years old. Six percent of the original amount is the minimum I'ld collect each year, guaranteed. Sounds too good to be true.

I'll keep you posted.

1. I would not buy anything sold at the bank. Get ready to be hosed. Also, if you buy an annuity, say goodbye to liquidity. Your nest egg is gone forever (or at least a very long time. Can you say surrender charges?). Fees are out the window high, sky high. Your 401K is tax advantaged, no need to ruin the tax advantages it has. Check out some of the no load outfits, like Vanguard.

2. Sounds to good to be true = not true.

3. I wouldn't give up on having a paid for vehicle. Vehicles go down in value like a rock. Get a paid for vehicle, drive it til it dies, then repeat.

4. Guaranteed = Guaranteed by whom? Only as good as the company that guarantees it. Which doesn't mean much anymore.

Our fears and sentiments exactly! I'm anxious to get to the bank to see how the annuity plans fared during the first part of this downturn. It will be interesting to see if the "Advisor" is as enthusiatic about them as he was two years ago when we first investigated them.

Our original battle plan is to collect about 1/3 income from the Employers Defined Annuity, 1/3 from a guaranteed annuity (our 401-K rollover), and 1/3 from Social Security. The numbers may vary but the diversity seems sound, at least to us anyway. Time will tell.

Thanks for the thoughtful input.


If your guaranteed annuity is a variable annuity then the contract value has most likely taken a big hit. Variable annuities are invested in stocks and not immune to the market. In recent years many of these annuiies have offered a guaranteed income benefit. That is, the income that could be derived from the original investement amount is guaranteed at a certain interest rate. Many companies will increase the guaranteed amount yearly until the contract is tapped. If this describes your annuity the good news is that the income producing power of your original investment is still in tack. However, if you want to to pull all of your money out of the annuity you'll only get the reduced contract value.

3. I wouldn't give up on having a paid for vehicle. Vehicles go down in value like a rock. Get a paid for vehicle, drive it til it dies, then repeat.

Ironically, the only cars that appreciate are very old cars. The right old car, properly chosen and maintained can provide you enjoyment and keep its value.

Taking the car in for a new belt and coming out with an estimate of $2,400 + tax for a variety of things that were discovered and can't be ignored: Priceless.


In the last 6 weeks I have been hit by:
- $600 repair to a car
- $500 repair to a car
- $1800 unexpected aid to a child
- $2800 for a new furnace
- $800 for a new water heater

It could be much, much worse if instead of cycling we were boating or golfing.

It could be much, much worse if instead of cycling we were boating or golfing.

OT, but how do you put two or more quotes into one post?