Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - wrist pain

I know i've asked you for help with this before, but here it goes again. I'm still getting a ton of wrist pain when i ride. I went from track drops to bullhorns, switch my hand position all the time, inverted my threadless stem so its angled up, lowered the seat as much as is comfortable, and tried keeping my back arched weight off my hands...none of it has helped. So my question is, could it be that my seat isn't back far enough? I have a brooks team pro, i'm thinking maybe i need a setback seatpost, get my weight back on the bike and off my hands?
Any help with this is appreciated. Not a lot of help from my LBS, hoping its not just a question of my bike not fitting me...

What about some sort of wrist support/stabilizer (like a wrap from a drugstore)?

']What about some sort of wrist support/stabilizer (like a wrap from a drugstore)?

I'd have to wear it every time i ride...hassle. The only thing i haven't tried is a set of gel padded gloves.

I know i've asked you for help with this before, but here it goes again. I'm still getting a ton of wrist pain when i ride. I went from track drops to bullhorns, switch my hand position all the time, inverted my threadless stem so its angled up, lowered the seat as much as is comfortable, and tried keeping my back arched weight off my hands...none of it has helped. So my question is, could it be that my seat isn't back far enough? I have a brooks team pro, i'm thinking maybe i need a setback seatpost, get my weight back on the bike and off my hands?
Any help with this is appreciated. Not a lot of help from my LBS, hoping its not just a question of my bike not fitting me...
What is the length of your stem extension. Maybe you could try a shorter stem extension or spring for one of those adjustable stems. I know they do not look as "Cool" as a fixed length stem, but, hey, whatever works. It would allow you to try various height/extensions and see if that helps. Then if you get one that works you can buy a set length and return to the "Cool" look of fixed gear ethic. Or just ride it and be happy in knowing that you have achieved the "Variable Cool Look".


Fixedgearhead

I know i've asked you for help with this before, but here it goes again. I'm still getting a ton of wrist pain when i ride. I went from track drops to bullhorns, switch my hand position all the time, inverted my threadless stem so its angled up, lowered the seat as much as is comfortable, and tried keeping my back arched weight off my hands...none of it has helped. So my question is, could it be that my seat isn't back far enough? I have a brooks team pro, i'm thinking maybe i need a setback seatpost, get my weight back on the bike and off my hands?
Any help with this is appreciated. Not a lot of help from my LBS, hoping its not just a question of my bike not fitting me...

If it's a COG thing then moving the seat back to effectively create a slacker seat tube angle may help but if your top tube/stem length forces you to stretch out too far to reach the bars then moving the seat back would make it worse.
When I changed from drops to bullhorns I found that I needed a 3cm shorter stem to keep from feeling stretched out.

You may just need a shorter stem (not as in height but as in forward position). Angling your bullhorns up abit more may help as well.

Do you have long or short legs for your height? What type of frame do you ride?

Hope this helps a bit.

Jim

"i'm thinking maybe i need a setback seatpost"

Based on this statement, my guess is that it IS a COG issue; particularlly if you're riding an agressive geometry. An agressive geometry, combined with 0-offset post, and a brooks saddle (which doesnt slide back very far on the rails) will yield a lot of forward leaning.

Head to the LBS and borrow a new seatpost for a few hours.

Do you have long or short legs for your height? What type of frame do you ride?

Hope this helps a bit.

Jim

I've tried angling the bullhorns up, not to much avail, and the stem angles up now as well. I had the same pain when i still had the drops on the bike, so i don't think its a problem with the bullhorns. I'm 6 feet tall, 33/34 inseam, but i have 34/35 arms in a dress shirt. Yes, my arms may be slightly longer than my legs. Joke it up.

I ride a Specialized Langster, 56cm, compact geometry. When i first tested this bike, i felt a little cramped by the top tube length, but the 58 cm frame was too big. I don't really feel stretched out by the stem length at all, just like there's too much weight on my hands. Maybe i'm just top heavy, I'm big for a guy my size, with skinny little arms, and all my weight is up top. I'm planning on losing a few more pounds this summer, perhaps that will help.

Either way, i'm gonna buy a thompson seatpost for the bike over the summer, the only decision is color and whether or not to try setback... My LBS was less than helpful when i brought the issue to them, all they did was sell me some of that specialized barphat gel padding for under the tape, and that didn't help at all on the drops, so i left it off the bullhorns.

I ride a Specialized Langster, 56cm, compact geometry. When i first tested this bike, i felt a little cramped by the top tube length, but the 58 cm frame was too big. I don't really feel stretched out by the stem length at all, just like there's too much weight on my hands. Maybe i'm just top heavy, I'm big for a guy my size, with skinny little arms, and all my weight is up top. I'm planning on losing a few more pounds this summer, perhaps that will help.


I just checked out the Langster geometry. The 56cm frame has a 74.3 degree seat tube angle, which for me would be agony. The effective top tube length seems alittle short too. Given that and your probable high COG, I think pushing the seat back is a really good next step.

One thing you can try is to have a friend hold your bars while you sit on the bike. Put the pedals at 3:00/9:00 but place the balls of your feet on the bottom bracket shell. Now, try to 'hover' your hands an inch above the bars. If your butt comes off the seat as you try then it's a good indication that the seat tube is too steep for you.

Jim

ive been having right wrist pain lately also.....im not very laid out on my ride bc i use narrow low rise bar. they have a good deal of sweep to them also. ive been playing around with rotating the bars, and adjusting stem height, but my wrist is still bugging me. it seems to be worst when im out of the saddle pulling on the bars. oddly enough, today i was singlespeed MTBing on some nice singletrack and my wrist felt fine. maybe my bars are too narrow? i see some people with even narrower setups, so i have no idea at this point. i guess ill just ride through the pain and see how it feels in a week!

This may seem like a dumb question but are you keeping your wrists straight while you ride? If they are at an angle, i.e. hands pointing uppward, this is hard on your wrists. Also what kind of bar wrap are you using? You might try switching to MTB grips on the flats of your bullhorns or drops. I've seen this on a few messenger bikes. Hope this helps.

Chris

wait, dude...how long you been riding your current rig??? if you just moved from roadie/ss/mtb frame to track geometry, you WILL be hurting for a while until you get used to it!!

track geometry isnt comfortable...but it is sexy...

randy

I have had pain in my wrists when I rode the drop bars. I am not entirely sure why, but I can only guess. I never had wrist pain on a MTB (straight bar), nor do I have wrist pain on my current fixie with cowhorns. The reason for the pain, I think, was two fold: improper hand position (I will explain this in a minute), and/or bad wrist orientation. The first cause could be due to a long stem and top tube combination which causes your hand to outstretch at an angle that is just uncomfortable. Look in the mirror and verify that the angle between your upper torso and hands, in your riding postion, is less than 90 degrees. The lower the angle, the better (until a certain threshold). Track frames have a lower handlebar and higher bottom bracket. This is not a good combination for comfort. Try getting a stem extension so that handle bar is about the level of seat (mine is about 2inches below seat level) and use a short stem (mine is 60mm). Moving the seat to the front may help, but it also affects the pedaling dynamics. It is always more comfortable to have less weight on the hands anyway. I wouldn't worry too much about aerodynamics at this point.

Regarding the wrist orientation, I found that MTB flat bars with slight angle provide the best position. On these bars wrist is sort of sideways which does not put undue or unnatural forces on the wrist. I have a cowhorn bar I got from chucks bikes, which is oriented like a drop bar but has a pronounced inward angle. So the wrists are not entirely longitudinal. Drop bars do not work for everyone (they did not work for me, after trying different widths and styles). So, if nothing works, switch the handlebar to a flat one.

I actually switched from bulls to drops to get the pressure off my wrists. They didn't 'hurt' with the bulls, but I could tell the position wasn't right. So I got a set of no-name drops. This pulled the hoods in a little less than 2 inches from the ends of the bulls and raised them up a bit (the bulls had a bit of drop to them) This raised up my position and changed a whole bunch including shifting my weight back and changing the angle that my wrists are at when I'm on the hoods. It's all for the better for me.
Having me suggest things based on my experience is haphazard at best but here's what I'm thinking: Get a layback post, you (like me) have steep geometry, it's amazing how different a slack bike feels, you have so much more pressure on your butt and less on your hands. Then put your drops back on or get a shorter stem or something to maintain cockpit length (assuming it's good for you now) This should put you in a position that will shift weight from your hands to your butt and aleviate your wrist pain. May bring on a bit of butt pain though.....

Went to the friendly LBS today, asking about a setback seatpost. He sat me up on the Langster, looked me up and down and said "shoulda got a bigger frame." Basically he said the seats too high for the handlebar level. He mentioned a couple things that could help with the fit, and i'll try them... but.....

That wasn't the store where i bought the Langster. I got it at a different place down the street that carries specialized. What is the punishment for a store that sold you the wrong size frame? How much am I to blame? It felt comfortable when i test rode it, and when they measured me they said i belonged on that size frame. Now i'm stuck with a bike that doesn't really fit that well, and I'm pretty salty. Advice?

That wasn't the store where i bought the Langster. I got it at a different place down the street that carries specialized. What is the punishment for a store that sold you the wrong size frame? How much am I to blame? It felt comfortable when i test rode it, and when they measured me they said i belonged on that size frame. Now i'm stuck with a bike that doesn't really fit that well, and I'm pretty salty. Advice?

You bought it with drops and went to the bike shop with the bull horns?

I had the same thing happen to me with bullhorns. When I put them on the bike with the same stem, my hands would go numb. I did a century like this and could not feel my right hand for two days.

I would either go back to your drop bars or put a shorter stem on the bulls and raise up the stem.

Went to the friendly LBS today, asking about a setback seatpost. He sat me up on the Langster, looked me up and down and said "shoulda got a bigger frame." Basically he said the seats too high for the handlebar level. He mentioned a couple things that could help with the fit, and i'll try them... but.....


How much seat post you got showing? What's the drop between the handlebars and the seat? Just because LBS #2 thinks you should be on a different size frame than LBS #1 sold you that doesn't mean they're right. Sounds like you want to trust LBS #2 because your hands hurt.

How much seat post you got showing? What's the drop between the handlebars and the seat? Just because LBS #2 thinks you should be on a different size frame than LBS #1 sold you that doesn't mean they're right. Sounds like you want to trust LBS #2 because your hands hurt.

You can check out the pics of my bike in the pictures thread, second to last page. That's the current setup

Ok, so the langster has compact, or at least semi-compact geometry right? Set up how it is now you've got maybe 3 inches of drop between the tops of the bars and the top of the seat. As long as you're not smushed up as far at top tube length goes, I'd hesitate to say that the frame is too small. It may be on the small end of the spectrum though (as in you'd 'fit' two sizes and you have the smaller one)
I think you're just experiencing the steep geometry of a track bike. They're always going to put more wieght on your arms, just the way they are.
Personally, and agian, my opinion means crap, the next size up in frames isn't going to solve your problem, LBS #1 probably didn't make a mistake, and LBS #2 didn't make a mistake telling you that LBS #1 did make a mistake. You're living first hand the fuzzy world of bike fit, where there is always more than one answer.
Try a setback post and maybe your drops and see if it's better, for that matter, slide your seat back the last few millimeters and see if you can feel the difference, I'd bet you will be able to.

http://www.tyrodot.com/pista.jpg

seeing your setup makes me think, "with that setup, how is it possible to have wrist pain?"

then it hit me....if you really want the forum to help you figure out the wrist pain, we need a pic of you ON THE BIKE!

by looking at my setup, you'd think Id have major problems...but, the bike fits me reasonably, and I ride with some discomfort, but, then, its a track bike...

randy

http://www.tyrodot.com/pista.jpg

then it hit me....if you really want the forum to help you figure out the wrist pain, we need a pic of you ON THE BIKE!

randy

here goes
http://www.angelfire.com/realm3/s2sxiii/melangster.jpg

tilting the bullhorns to that uppity angle has helped a bit. Please keep all fat man comments to a minimum, my ego can't handle it

Looks to me like your frames too small. I'm no expert, but it looks like your saddle might be able to go up a bit more, but that will just put more pressure on your hands. You look far too tense in your upper body, your shoulders should be more relaxed and your arms should have some bend to them. Just my $0.02 though, good luck with sorting it out. FWIW I'm still working out my geometry too, I think I'm gonna swap my bullhorns for drops to see if that helps, then get a shorter stem for the bullhorns.

Looks to me like your frames too small.

Not what i wanted to hear, but thanks for your opinion. If that's the general consensus, I'll have to look in to getting rid of it this summer, finding something else to ride.... Oh the luck i have with these things... I just wanna march it up to the LBS where i bought it and insist on an exchange...

I'm in about the same position on my kogswell and I'm happy as a clam. I like my bikes tight though and that bike is tight. Maybe it's too small, I dunno.
You positon looks to me like a case of poor lower back flexibility. Your body quite upright and your shoulders are tense and your arms are stick straight. Can you touch your toes? If not then how close can you come?
Really, personally, I think the more you ride the bike, the more weight you loose (I though I read that you were loosing weight by riding the bike) the better it will feel. As it stands it sounds like your only complaint is your hands right? I think that can be fixed without tossing the whole bike, if you love it that is.

I'm in about the same position on my kogswell and I'm happy as a clam. I like my bikes tight though and that bike is tight. Maybe it's too small, I dunno.
You positon looks to me like a case of poor lower back flexibility. Your body quite upright and your shoulders are tense and your arms are stick straight. Can you touch your toes? If not then how close can you come?

Can i touch my toes he says. I can put the backs of my hands of the floor standing, and still have room to go. Ridiculously flexible for some reason. I'm gonna stick it out on the bike for the better part of the summer, see what happens after that. thanks for the help, everyone.

I can put the backs of my hands of the floor standing, and still have room to go. Ridiculously flexible for some reason.
Damn... if only you were a little cuter...

i don't know, like i said i'm no expert at all, you can usually do a fair amount with compact frames though I think. I was looking through some photos from races of people's riding position and it may not be as far off as you think. I'd suggest borrowing an adjustable stem if you can and maybe a few seatposts too. If it comes down to it you can always pay someone to fit you to it properly, but then you have to find someone who knows what they're doing and will listen to you.

hey, you do look a bit tight, but hey, you ARE leaning up against a friggin wall, right?

Honestly, I say give yourself 3 weeks. Ride as much as you can, and, if after 3 weeks you STILL hurt, then I'd look into something major.

But, remember, these frames aren't too comfy. Although the Langster does compromise geometry for comfort, at least in theory...anyways, seriously, give it some time...how long have you been riding this setup? How long have you been riding total?

Its just like a sore ass at the beginning of the season...it should go away after some miles..
randy

Damn... if only you were a little cuter...

after looking at that picture of your scraggly ass in the owie thread, I'm glad i'm not cute enough for you ;)

I have a friend that have the same problem with his wrist. What kind of work do you do, because my friends job caused him to have wrist problems. So when he decided to build a new bike I helped set him up on a different seating position. Basically his bar is higher than his seat by about 2 inches, which worked for him. The higher position takes your weight off the bar which is off the wrist. This to me makes more sense than moving the seat back and forth, because the fore and aft of the seat is more for your leg relationship to the crank I feel.

"because the fore and aft of the seat is more for your leg relationship to the crank I feel."

The saddle position has a whole lot more to with weight distrubution than you might think...

When your in front of a mirror, bend over to touch your toes....notice your a$$ moves backwards to maintain your COG. Now lean against the wall, bend over and touch your toes. You'll probably fall over because you cant adjust your COG.

If you want to ride with low bars, the saddle should be more aft such that youre not 'falling' forward onto the handlebars. Of course, there's a tradeoff, becuase too aft with bars too low will result in inefficient positioning (whole nother story).

0-offset seatposts, IMO, are one of the worse products for a general road position. tight angles are a close second. I recognize not all bodies are equal and these things work for some, but generally speaking, after nearly a century of fairly constant geometries, seating offsets, and handlebar heights, todays more agressive geometries is yielding many complaints of back-pain, wrist strain, numb hands, etc etc etc. MHO.

Can i touch my toes he says. I can put the backs of my hands of the floor standing, and still have room to go. Ridiculously flexible for some reason. I'm gonna stick it out on the bike for the better part of the summer, see what happens after that. thanks for the help, everyone.

The next time you ride, try concentrating on letting your legs do the grunt work as far as balance and support are concerned. Your saddle and handlebars shouldn't be relied on too heavily for support. Remember when you were a kid trying to ride your bike without any hands and had to touch the bars every once in awhile? Try doing this again. Exaggerate barely touching the bars when you ride [without sitting upright, natch], while also putting as little weight as possible on the saddle. It's not easy, but this will strengthen your core and your legs. In time it will make you more powerful and could alleviate some of the wrist pain. With your flexibility this should come pretty quickly...or not...whose to say.

Can i touch my toes he says. I can put the backs of my hands of the floor standing, and still have room to go. Ridiculously flexible for some reason. I'm gonna stick it out on the bike for the better part of the summer, see what happens after that. thanks for the help, everyone.

I told you my advice was useless. :)
Do work on riding with relaxed arms though, it lets your arms absorb the shock more and that's easier on your wrists, elbows and shoulders. Just make sure you have a couple degrees of bend in them, no locked elbows.

Damn... if only you were a little cuter...
ahhahha!!!

following some of your advice, i went to a fit pro here in town, awesome guy whose tri-bike is a fixie and who rides around on a 52x11 (i think i got that right) fixie all summer to train, and he took one look at me on the bike and said "shorter stem." He put on a Ritchey size 80, which was ok, but then he said, wait, i've got something else...this beautiful piece right here... Matching seatpost soon to follow.

http://www.angelfire.com/realm3/s2sxiii/stem1.jpg

http://www.angelfire.com/realm3/s2sxiii/stem2.jpg

Wow, that "angelfire" stem looks wicked sweet, but I wonder about rigidity. There are an awful lot of spaces between those letters :rolleyes:

Wow, I'll bet he'll be a really fit cyclist after his knee surgery.


i went to a fit pro here in town, awesome guy whose tri-bike is a fixie and who rides around on a 52x11

you need a bigger frame. a set-back seatpost will help a bit, but I think this will do nothing more than f a little with your geo and put yourself in a worse pedaling position than you are now. You could also go with a super drop long stem (nitto, or something similar) to get you stretched out a bit more--but it has to be longer and steeper than you probably would think. Of course I'm not super savvy on the compact geo of the Langster, but I've seen pictures, so this may not help too much. See if you can trade for a bigger size. In my limited experience, it seems people will fit a bike a bit on the small side. Add to this that the word on the street is that fixeds should be on the smaller side. This may have been running through your head when you bought. My arms are two inches shorted than yours, and I have experienced wrist pain on too small a frame. Getting nice smooth drops like the b123s and angling them so they are as long and high as they will go without angling the bottom of the drops up should help--it will take some tinkering. finally you can switch positions a bit, but spend most of your time with your thumbs forward on the bar where they start to bend deeply into the drops. ride with pressure forward, with your arms slightly flexed. If your arms can only be mostly bent or mostly too staight (not yout front, but up and down), then your frame is too small.

Just my 2 cents, you caught me at a verbose moment.

-t

ps i hope this makes sense

Wow, that "angelfire" stem looks wicked sweet, but I wonder about rigidity. There are an awful lot of spaces between those letters :rolleyes:


you got that message to? weird. I got it when i was looking through the forums on a lab computer at school, but i can see the pics here at home right now. Strange

Wow, I'll bet he'll be a really fit cyclist after his knee surgery.

"fit" as in fitting the bike to the rider, not as in "fitness"


Based on his observations (he's not from the LBS where i boutght the bike), i think the frame size is OK. Pain seems to have subsided quite a bit, at least in the 10 miles i rode it home from his shop. Not gonna try a set back either, cause it feels ok. thanks everyone for your help.