Northern California - Bike buying advice, please

Not usually one to count my chickens but I think I'm close to getting an OK to buy from the family accountant.

Looking at a new Masi Especiale 105 or used vintage steel frame or, don't taze me bro, a BD Ti bike. The Masi and BD bikes are almost the same price. A vintage steel frame built up with modern bits should be cheaper if I do all the work myself, except for the painting or powdercoating. Problem is getting started on such a project with my limited skillz and time.

Anyway, WWYD?

http://www.masibikes.com/tab3_subNav3.php

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/lechamp_ti_09.htm

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/scz/bik/1040633822.html

I've never bought a mail order bike. I have heard horror stories in this forum about people buying the wrong size or receiving a bike with defective components or poor assembly. From what I hear, Masi does have a better quality reputation than BD.

Building up a bike yourself is not difficult if you have the right tools. It can be time consuming, though, and buying components piece by piece is expensive.

Another cheapo alternative is to buy an off-brand bike from a local Performance store. Some of them are pretty good deals.

Also, many bike shops sell last year's models at big discounts during the winter.

The titanium Motobecane would be tempting. Light with nice components at a pretty good price.

If you don't mind the triple, Bikesdirect's Mercier Serpens (http://bikesdirect.com/products/mercier/mercier_serpensIX.htm) looks like it might fit your bill, as well. $1299, Reynolds 853 frame. No weight listed, but I'd guess somewhere between the Ti and the Masi.

If you want to update a classy older frame, get ahold of bigbossman. He's the local expert on such things. :)

Yeah, I figured Masi would have a better rep than BD. A nicer looking bike to for that matter.

Great tip on the Mercier. It's got an ugly paint job but then a powder coat is pretty cheap relatively.

BBM is the recognized expert on building up older frames. Next time I see him, I'll bring the old frame with me to ask for advice.

I wouldn't hesitate to get the BD Ti bike if I were in the market. As long as the build is checked over by a competent wrench, you'll be suprised at the quality (yes, the build is sometimes sketchy). There's a lot of BD hate in the road forums, but I know 3 people plus myself that have had great experiences with the BD bikes. In my case I bought the bike for parts for another frame, only to rebuild the Moto for crit racing. The Masi sounds nice, but there'll be some component compatibility headaches for sure.

If you're an experienced cyclist who knows how to match a geometry chart to their body and riding style and has the skills/tools/time to build/inspect/overhaul a bike, then you can get some good deals from BD. For beginners, BD is more dicey.

For what it's worth, I'm happy with my Bikesdirect bike as well, even though it's a very low-end model (Motobecane Fantom Cross Uno).

I wouldn't hold your breath on that Motobecane - website says "sold out" when you try to pick a size.:(
Looked like a pretty good deal.


JB

edit: FWIW, if your heart is set on new Ti, check out Habanero (www.habcycles.com) - frames under $1k, and if you're really careful with the build they seem to have a 105 equipped bike under $2k. A friend has one and likes it a lot. She's done some long hard rides on it, including the Death Ride. For quite a bit more, this new Lynskey Cooper looks very interesting: http://www.lynskeyperformance.com/a/pages/2009-products/road/titanium-road-bikes-road-houseblend-cooper.php

If you want to update a classy older frame, get ahold of bigbossman. He's the local expert on such things. :)


BBM is the recognized expert on building up older frames. Next time I see him, I'll bring the old frame with me to ask for advice.

Yikes - you guys are making me blush. :o

Here's my take - but take it for what it's worth because I have the tools and ability to roll my own.

For less hassle, buy one already built up. Caveats are that you know what your looking at, and it fits you. I would have no problem buying a BD bike, but I know my size and I know how to correct any assembly/setup faults when the bike arrives. Another caveat - I hear the generic BB that BD uses fail pretty early on, so be aware of that.

If you have the time and are willing to go though the process of assembling the pile of parts, IMO building your own is far preferable. It is fun, it is educational, and it is very satisfying to sport about on a one-off you built yourself.

To build one yourself, finding the right frame is the nut, as they say. Everything else is pretty easy. You can go budget and get a nice (but nondescript) 80's Japanese cro-moly frame that well built and finished nicely. For more dough you can spring for a nice 1st or 2nd tier frame-set - and the sky's the limit on this route. For example - my Palo Alto frame set cost me $250, the Cinelli, $1,100. A pretty new Tommasini Sinestra or perhaps a De Rosa Primato can set you back $2,000+. There are a whole lot of choices in between. I built out the Palo Alto for about $1,100 total, and the Cinelli probably ended up at around $1,700. Figure at least $600 for a group (Centaur groups from England are dirt cheap right now), and at least a grand for a complete bike. You won't necessarily save money building your own.

Or, you can buy a BD bike for its' group-set, strip it and build your fame with that, and sell the carcass on eBay or CL.

If you're going to powder coat, I vote for a good quality Japanese frame that is your size. They are relatively cheap, and even cheaper if cosmetics is not an issue. Strip it, have the rear cold set for 130mm, get it powder coated, and then build it up any way you like.

What size frame are you looking for? I have a pair of 56cm Nishiki frame-sets that are of good quality but cosmetically challenged. Either would be a great riding bike, and a perfect candidate for powder coating.

Anyway, I'll be glad to help any way I can, including looking your frame over and helping to build it using my stand and tools. Will work for food........ :D

Thanks for the advice and offer to help, BBM. I learned a lot already in just the six or seven paragraphs you wrote.

I'm 5'8" and I think a 52-54cm frame is for me. I bought my current bike from a department store and didn't get help with the fit. It's a 52 and seems to be OK so the Nishikis might be too big.

My craigslist buy is a tange steel Specialized Allez Sport from 1991, I think. I'm hoping it's already a 130mm spread but if not, I'll get it cold set. I was thinking of buying all the bits used off craigslist or eBay. I'll price it all and if they come close to the Mercier Reynolds 853 on BD, then that's the bike I'll end up with. Too bad the Ti is sold out.

I have a bike stand, some tools, a couple of Zinn books and a bike building DVD already. What I'm lacking are the skills to bike wrench and the knowledge about which bits to buy that'll work on my bike project.

I like to eat before, during and after I wrench on my cars. You'll be well fed.

My craigslist buy is a tange steel Specialized Allez Sport from 1991, I think. I'm hoping it's already a 130mm spread but if not, I'll get it cold set.

If it is an 8/9/10 speed bike (rear cogs), it is already 130mm. If it is 6/7 speed it is at 126mm, which is usually close enough. A quick measurement between the rear drops (inside to inside) will tell you pretty quickly what you need to know. If you need to cold set you can do it yourself, but a shop only charges about $40 to do it and they use proper alignment tools. I recommend you let them do it.

If you already have the frame set, you're well on your way. First thing to do would be to strip it down completely, to include headset and bottom bracket. Take it down all the way and see what's what, then clean and re-pack the headset. what bb you use (or whether you use the original) depends on its' condition and the choice you make for a crank.

The rest is gravy - just hang all the bits on, string the cables, and go for a ride.

Hey - I have a high-mileage Chevy Tahoe that needs a tune-up. You tune my truck, I'll build your bike. :D

Thanks again, BBM. Too bad you don't have your 3.2 Carrera anymore. All I work on are aircooled 911s. I'll buy you lunch though for the advice so far.

Thanks again, BBM. Too bad you don't have your 3.2 Carrera anymore. All I work on are aircooled 911s. I'll buy you lunch though for the advice so far.


Damn.... where were you last year when I needed you? :) Whatsa matter - no love for the 996?

And, if you can tear into a 3.2 you'll have no problems with a bike. Hell - I was barely able to change the oil by myself on that thing. And valve adjustment - fuggetaboutit.

996 is too complicated for me. Check out Valhalla Motors in Lafayette. John Maloney is a good guy, just a little grouchy. He works mainly aircooled cars but he does do Boxsters and 996s too. Don't forget to rub elbows with the PCA guys at their weekely Sat morning breakfasts there in San Ramon. They'll let you know which mechanics to avoid.

Looks like your heart is set on a steal or titanium but just to throw it out there, my Motobecane Le Champion is about to go on the market. It's this one:

http://www.motobecane.com/MBUSAlec05.html

Wheels and cockpit have been changed but drivetrain and frameset are still the same. I'll even dismantle it if you want to put it back together. In any case, good luck on the bike search and have fun if you decide to build. It's addicting once you start.

That Masi is gorgeous. I don't know much about their bikes, but they seem to have a good following.

Anyone know how you pronounce it? MOH-see?

Thanks for the advice and offer to help, BBM. I learned a lot already in just the six or seven paragraphs you wrote.

I'm 5'8" and I think a 52-54cm frame is for me. I bought my current bike from a department store and didn't get help with the fit. It's a 52 and seems to be OK so the Nishikis might be too big.

My craigslist buy is a tange steel Specialized Allez Sport from 1991, I think. I'm hoping it's already a 130mm spread but if not, I'll get it cold set. I was thinking of buying all the bits used off craigslist or eBay. I'll price it all and if they come close to the Mercier Reynolds 853 on BD, then that's the bike I'll end up with. Too bad the Ti is sold out.

I have a bike stand, some tools, a couple of Zinn books and a bike building DVD already. What I'm lacking are the skills to bike wrench and the knowledge about which bits to buy that'll work on my bike project.

I like to eat before, during and after I wrench on my cars. You'll be well fed.


Bigbossman? Bike wrenching?? Jeez, it took him an hour and a half to attach and adjust a simple front deraiileur last Sunday. I know, I was there. :p (Just don't ask how much time I spent futzing around with a simple bottom bracket. :notamused:)

Based on the time and the level of the bike (good frame, good bang for the buck, well worth ressurecting and riding, but not top-of-the-line), my guess on the 1991 Specialized Allez is that it was a 7-speed, which means 126mm rear spread. Yes, spread it to 130mm, which, as BBM says, will allow you to run everything from 8-speed (including the Campy C-Record 8-speed stuff I just happen to have available at the moment :innocent:) up to 11-speed. No, do not do it yourself. It really is worth the $40 or so to have a good shop do it with the right tools. And don't watch. "Cold setting" is a euphemism for "bending" and although it is perfectly safe in this amount on a steel frame, you really do not want to see it being done. Kinda like watching your kid get circumcised.

*** WARNING TO OTHERS: In case you did not know, never, ever, ever attempt to "cold set" an aluminum or carbon fiber frame. You will ruin the frame and risk a catastrophic failure at speed. You can safely bend steel this amount. The same is absolutely not true with Al or CF. ***

Are you sure about the frame sizing? Sounds a little small to me. I confess, I failed to pay sufficient attention a couple of weeks ago at the innaugural Slowpoke Ride, what with the cat herding and all, but my recollection is that you are a bit big for a 52cm frame. I could be wrong, though - and it wouldn't be the first time.

That Specialized is almost certainly English threaded, which makes finding threaded parts (headset, bottom bracket) that fit pretty easy. BBM can answer just about everything you need to know. If he doesn't, I or somebody else on the Forums almost certainly can.

I think I better consult a bike fitting website to find out what size bike I should really be riding. I've seen pics of me on my 52 cm bike and I do look like I am all over the top of it but I just assumed that's how all fat dudes look on their bikes.

I haven't bought any bits yet so I might look into your Campy 8 speed. The bike has downshifters, can I convert to STI easily enough and use your Campy?

Looks like we've got a lot of wrenching talent on this forum. And they're modest too.

Huy, thanks for the heads up on your Motobecane. I'm really after a steel or Ti right now since my current bike is aluminium.

I haven't bought any bits yet so I might look into your Campy 8 speed. The bike has downshifters, can I convert to STI easily enough and use your Campy?


There are cable stops you can buy that will mount to downtube shifter bosses. If there are no bosses, you can always use a clamp on cable stop. It shouldn't be a problem.

There are cable stops you can buy that will mount to downtube shifter bosses. If there are no bosses, you can always use a clamp on cable stop. It shouldn't be a problem.

Yup - something like this:

http://www.probikekit.com/display.php?code=A0035
http://www.probikekit.com/_img_500x640/A0035.jpg

I'm a big fan of Masi even though they are no longer made by the same company as the older ones. They are really dedicated to steel bikes and a majority of their sales are still steel.

I'm a big fan of Masi even though they are no longer made by the same company as the older ones. They are really dedicated to steel bikes and a majority of their sales are still steel.

You can still get a "real" Masi :

http://www.milano3v.com/

Alberto Masi (Faliero Masi's son) makes the bikes but they can't be called Masi because of trademark rules.