Cyclocross - LBS trying to talk me out of Cyclocross

I went into my LBS today to ask about getting a cyclocross. I commute to work (10 miles each way) and here are some of the points the employee said:

1) The wider tires 25-32cm (with Gatorskins or other flat reducing tire) in comparison to 23cm, will not get less pinch flats in potholes if tires are inflated correctly. Also they might get more regular flats since they have more chance of picking up sharp object b/cuz of increased surface area.

2) If you have the right fit, wider tires on similar priced new bikes, will not give you any more control in cornering (or amongst cars in traffic)

3) Unless you have a need to go offroad or put on racks (I use a backpack) then there is absolutely no need to get a cyclocross as a commuter, for the same price, they are not any more durable and slower then equivalent quailty road bikes.

I was honestly a little taken aback by the insistence of this guy to talk me out of a cyclocross for commuting. I ride on bike path and city streets of varriying quality and traffic. Does anyone know if there are higher profit margins on road bikes vs cx? Also any thoughts on the points above. I want less flats, comfort, control and speed. (Obviously I would be riding with slicks)

thanks

Go to a different shop.

1. CX bikes make excellent commuter bikes. If you don't like the wide tires, you can always go narrower. You can't go wider on a road bike. I've experienced less pinches on wider tires compared to a 23c.
2. Yes, you do lose a little quickness with wider tires like a 32c. When I switch to a road bike, it definitely feels quicker and more agile compared to wide cx tires. You can get durable semi-slick CX tires like Ritchey Speed Max
3. People get CX bikes for versitility. More tire clearance. But if you are absolutely not going to ride in gravel or some light trail, there is little advantage to getting a CX bike.

the guy seems to just be a pretentious roadie

almost no one who seriously commutes does so on 23's (it's not cm, btw) city riding is just too rough for most. if you look at ANY bike that is sold as a "commuter" it will have larger tires on it (compared to a true "road" bike)

if you are commuting in a city, you don't need THAT much control in cornering. you probably aren't going to be flying through turns at 30+ mph, i consider #2 a mute point

the difference between riding a 'cross bike with slicks and a road bike in terms of one being "slower" is SO negligible that any other number of factors will much more greatly affect the outcome of how "fast" you are, i.e. what you ate, how much water you've had, how much is in your bag, how many lights you catch, wet roads, etc etc etc etc

in conclusion, and i believe anyone in the commuting forum would agree, a 'cross bike is FINE if not preferred by many commuters. what bike shop is this anyway?

go to a different shop.

+1.

Did the shop even have any cyclocross bikes? I've seen shops try and talk people into bikes that they had on their floor verses selling someone exactly what they want.

The amount of flats depends on the type of tire not the type of bike. If any of the bike paths you use are unpaved you will not need a road bike with 23 mm tires. The advantage of a road bike would be the ability to use double pivot caliper brakes, but fenders would be a big problem.

Did the shop even have any cyclocross bikes? I've seen shops try and talk people into bikes that they had on their floor verses selling someone exactly what they want.

This was my first thought as well.
Dollars to donuts he was trying to sell you something he had in stock at that moment.

The guys not just a dork. Most of what he's saying is wrong.

A Cross bike makes a good commuter. So does a touring bike like the Surly LHT.
I use a sport bike. Sport bikes, like my Gunnar Sport, have geometry halfway between a touring bike and a roadie.

Just for giggles, take a look at this, it's Gunnar's new frame. It's got me drooling.

There's a kernel of truth in what he said. You don't need a cross bike for light commuting, and a road bike could work very well, depending.

If I were buying a bike strictly for commuting, though, I would want clearance for wider tires, fenders, and racks.

I had a similar experience with a shop except he said no on road and cross bikes. His opinion was hybrids were the only city bikes. I just bought else where.

I think a cross bike may actually be faster for commutting in the city. I fly through/over stuff that I would normally have to slow down for/avoid if I was on a road bike. Riding a cyclocross bike in the city is huge fun. Find a shop that has staff that want you on a bike best suited to you.

3) Unless you have a need to go offroad or put on racks (I use a backpack) then there is absolutely no need to get a cyclocross as a commuter, for the same price, they are not any more durable and slower then equivalent quailty road bikes. You may not want racks, but you may like:
- clearance for fenders, which most newer road bikes won't have
- brakes are not caliper brakes, giving options for mounting wider tires, fenders, and not having snow gunk up the works
- Many cross bikes have interrupter brake levers; I find these great when going at low speed (such as 5mph around campus between classes weaving through a throng of students) as my hands tend to gravitate towards the tops at low speeds, so I can sit up straight and control the bike easier.

I have a second set of wheels with 23C tires for my cross bike, and it's nearly indistinguishable from a comparably set up road bike with skinny tires.


My experience with my LBS was that the shop only carried Trek cross bikes, leaving my options to the XO-1 and XO-2, both very high end and flashy bikes; not what I was looking for (and also not in stock, so I'd have to wait for him to order it); so I ended up buying online. He wasn't against CX bikes, but from his point of view the CX bikes were only for racing CX (and at the cost / setup of the two he offered, I could see why he'd get that opinion)

The salesman's points are mostly valid.

The main argument FOR a cross bike as a commuter is clearance for fenders, IMHO. Most road bikes have clearance for maybe 27mm tires (23's have worked fine for me for a long time), but fenders are very welcome on those mornings after a late-night rain or when the snow starts melting in March. If you are into racks, that's another pro.

the guy seems to just be a pretentious roadie

almost no one who seriously commutes does so on 23's (it's not cm, btw) city riding is just too rough for most. if you look at ANY bike that is sold as a "commuter" it will have larger tires on it (compared to a true "road" bike)



This is just silliness. How are 23s too rough for "commuting roads" but fine for general road riding? Sure 25s can make things more comfortable but the idea that you cannot commute on 23s is silly.

As for the mechanics points:
1: I agree with the pinch flat thing. You won't get them with good tire pressure. I regularly ride 30 psi under recommended without issue (on 23s by the way). Second, I don't believe you will get more flats. You have more rubber on the road but less pressure at each point.

2: Cornering is insignificant.

3: I have changed my mind a few times on racks. The option to put them on is not a bad thing.

You may want to look at touring bikes or a road bike that can accommodate racks, fenders ect. but there is nothing wrong with a cross bike for commuting if that fits your needs.

The question is, what was he trying to sell you? Don't get a hybrid. They are a bad idea, upright geometry leads to a sloppy bike fit and they tend to weigh a ton.

I went to my LBS last year looking for a road bike for under $1000 that could take a rack and fenders. The sales guy tried to find something that met my requirements, but in the end, he pointed me toward a CX bike (which he didn't have in stock, BTW) as the best bike to do what I was after. A week later, when the Kona Jake came in for a test ride, I bought it.

It's been a great commuting bike. I usually use it with 25mm tires, but I kept the stock CX tires. It turned out that the biggest advantage was that when fall came around, and I started hearing the buzz about cyclocross racing, I had a bike ready to do it. I'm not a racer, per se, and when I bought the bike I had no intention of using it for that, but cyclocross is such great fun that you shouldn't rule this out as a possible advantage.

Another thing to consider is riding position. A cross bike doesn't put you in quite as aggressive of a position as your typical road bike, which I think tends to be better for commuting.

The guys not just a dork. Most of what he's saying is wrong.

A Cross bike makes a good commuter. So does a touring bike like the Surly LHT.
I use a sport bike. Sport bikes, like my Gunnar Sport, have geometry halfway between a touring bike and a roadie.

Just for giggles, take a look at this, it's Gunnar's new frame. It's got me drooling.


I like the look of that frame. It has disc tabs I see. Is it spaced 130 or 135? What kind of fork would you use?

+1 on finding a new LBS. Skinny tires are fine for commuting, but running fatter tires with less pressure equals a more comfortable ride. With skinny tires and potholes you really need to be careful about were you are riding because you could get a pinch flat or worse (rim damage). In my last year of commuting I had one flat that was actually a torn sidewall. My coworker riding 3 miles each way (compared to my 10 miles each way) often had multiple flats in a week. He even had two in the same day. He is riding a fixed gear bike with 23 and I am ridding a touring bike with 32s. My commuting duties this year will get split between a vintage touring bike, new touring bike, and two cross bikes depending on my mood and the weather.

My biggest reason for wider tires is my commute has two miles of dirt roads before I hit pavement. I wouldn't want to ride 23mm tires everyday for that. The smallest I would go is 28 and I find I prefer 30-35mm tires for that (either touring/road tires or cross tires).

Oh, one more thing for commuting get a rack and panniers. A backpack/messenger bag is fine for short trips and I was commuting with one for a few months before I got a rack and panniers. Since I got them I always commute with them, no more sweaty back and I feel much more comfortable on the ride to/from work.

I use a 'cross bike for commuting, trail riding, audaxes and fast road rides.

On my route to work I have 7 miles of canal towpath and 3 miles of road and tend to use 37c semi slicks in dryer weather, in soaking weather I switch to Conti Speed Kings in 35c. For audaxes and fast road riding I use 25c tyres and have had no problem.

Even with a 37c tyre I can quite comfortably average 15mph on my commute.

I like the look of that frame. It has disc tabs I see. Is it spaced 130 or 135? What kind of fork would you use?


I like that it does not have the word "SPORT" written on the top tube....I always thougth that looked incredibly silly for a frame of it's quality.

I've got a Jamis Coda Elite hybrid and a Habanero cross bike. I use them for different things and they are both great in my application for each. I have rack, panniers and fenders on the Jamis. All in, it's well over 30 lbs. Not fun per se, but it carries a ton of stuff and keeps me clean when the roads are wet.

The Habanero I use on dry days when everything fits in my messenger bag. It's a speed demon compared to the Jamis and I'm glad I have the option of keeping it fast, nimble and fun by not weighing it down with rack, panniers and fenders. Like others, I have a second set of wheels and road tires which turns it into a respectable 18.5lb road bike.

A cross bike is the best of both worlds, a cross bike and a road bike should you choose to keep a spare set of wheels around. Can't turn a road bike into a cross bike.

a cross bike is the best of both worlds, a cross bike and a road bike should you choose to keep a spare set of wheels around. Can't turn a road bike into a cross bike.

+1

Go to a different shop...

I'd recomend trying at least some of these bikes

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=368115

I like the look of that frame. It has disc tabs I see. Is it spaced 130 or 135? What kind of fork would you use?

I would guess 135mm or maybe the between size of 132.5mm so you could use 130 or 135mm spaced hubs. I say 135mm because there are no disc hubs in anything smaller than a 135mm spacing that I know of.

Hello everyone,

Thanks for all the great responses. I posted a really long response earlier but it didn't show up and I can't type it all again right now. Here are a few points to some of your comments:

--they tried to sell me an a Giant TCR Alliance 1 - Stock for 1650.00 + tax

--I work at UCSB, I talked to geophysics PhD grad student well versed in Physics. He said bike guy is wrong, wider tires equal less flats "in theory". If anyone really cares about the physics explanation I can write out the details.

thanks

A Giant TCR does not exactly scream commuter.

I am interested in the reasoning provided you can take the physics out of it.

I don't know, as much as I love my cyclocros bike, I MIGHTchoose something more road specific if I was never going to take it off road and lived in SB where I would never end up riding in the snow. I love my TCR and it is crazy fast....very nice for nice roads.

my feeling is that a CX bike is like a road bike, but better in every conceivable way for the non-road-racing rider. besides all of the great things other posters mention (options, options, options), oh wait, that's just it: you have so many options. you can ride roads in SB, or hit a trail, or visit your friend in some muddy/snowy city and have a great time. road bikes are great fun, they're just not as versatile, or generally as ready to withstand abuse.

I guess it all depends on how "aero" you want to be... me, not very! I ride a Salsa Las Cruces cross and a Rivendell Bleriot. I tend to agree with the philosophy that most modern road specific bikes are way too much like the pro racer's bikes, I don't know about but I know I can't bend like they can. A cross bike is, at least, a step in the right direction to being a bit more upright. Throw some road tires on a cx bike an you're good to go...

i work at a bike shop & plan on riding my cross bike 50 miles round trip to work this summer. i rode my road bike last summer & i'm looking forward to this change in pace. i'll stick with my roadie on some commutes, but whatever. i can't say that the salesman was "wrong," but i wouldn't rule out a road bike for your commuter. it sounds to me like either would be a good option, however as many people pointed out the cross bike will be more versitile with the ability to choose tire widths, add fenders, & attach racks if you want.

I think a touring bike is ideal for commuting, nice long and stable.

I've been looking at cx bikes for commuting too becuase of rack and fender options. On a sunny day however, I would prefer the nimbleness, speed and fun of a race bike. No problem for me on 23mm.

I don't think a cx bike is the best of both worlds. It's not as fast as a race bike nor can it handle the terrarin an mtb can. However it IS highly versatile and a strong cntender for my next bike. It's almost as good as a race bike and can go off road too. Its more comfortable than a road bike and excels at its intended purpose.

When I asked my LBS about cx bikes they were very supportive.

In fact, they told me they try to talk people out of traditional road bikes and toward 'cross bikes. In rural CO MUP's and decent bike lanes are very rare. Chipseal and gravel are more common.

One mechanic told me that they most of the local "roadies" are riding cx bikes. The LBS staff are big on Cross Checks.

1. CX bikes make excellent commuter bikes. If you don't like the wide tires, you can always go narrower. You can't go wider on a road bike. .

if you're a multi-season commuter this could be the bottom line...

This thread is starting to age but I think it is still relevant. I've been involved in sales for a number of years and this type of thing happens in them all types of industries. Sometimes sales people forget that their opinion really does not mean anything. It's all about the buyer's needs, not what the sales person's personal bias or opinion is. Sometimes we forget that. This guy referred to in the original post means no harm he just needs to refocus on the customer instead of being an expert.

Sounds like a roadie trying to get you to be like him. Or, he stocks road bikes and not cyclocross.

Buying a road bike for commuting is limiting. A cyclocross bike from Surly or Salsa will give you the most options in terms of racks, bottle mounts, brake selection, fender selection, tire selection, etc..

One incontrovertible fact is that you cannot fit studded tires on a road racer. There simply is not enough room and these come in handy in the winter. In regards to wider tires, you can run them at lower pressures. And of course, more rim clearance provides more pinch flat protection.

I would guess 135mm or maybe the between size of 132.5mm so you could use 130 or 135mm spaced hubs. I say 135mm because there are no disc hubs in anything smaller than a 135mm spacing that I know of.


It's 135. I've been looking at one for a disc braked pseudo-cx/dirt road bike. Richard Schwinn tells me (I emailed gunnar@waterfordbikes.com, Mr Schwinn himself replied about 10 minutes later) that it's very similar to a their Crosshairs in handling, but has a more relaxed riding position for touring, and it uses beefier tubes so it can be loaded up.

Vicious cycles, Winwood and Bontrager make disc road forks that would go with it.

I like the look of that frame. It has disc tabs I see. Is it spaced 130 or 135? What kind of fork would you use?

It (The Gunnar Fastlane) has 135mm dropouts.

The frame is $900. The matching "Uni-Fork" Disk fork is $250.

Here is a link
http://gunnarbikes.com/fastlane.php

I have a Gunnar Sport which I also think makes a great commuter as well as a superb long distance bike.

I actually tend to agree with most of what the salesman was saying but still think you should look for a different shop. The shop should be trying to work with the customer in meeting his needs, not trying to persuade him that he wants whatever the shop is trying to sell. Versatility is a good thing to have in a commuting bike. You may not want a rack today, but if you later need to carry more stuff or your back starts telling you it doesn't like the backpack then it's nice to have the option to easily put on a rack. Same with fenders and wider tires - you can always take them off a bike with touring or CX geometry, but you may not be able to add them to a bike that has minimal tire clearance.

But I bike-commuted almost every day until I retired and most of it was on tires of 23 mm or less in width.

This is just silliness. How are 23s too rough for "commuting roads" but fine for general road riding? Sure 25s can make things more comfortable but the idea that you cannot commute on 23s is silly.

As for the mechanics points:
1: I agree with the pinch flat thing. You won't get them with good tire pressure. I regularly ride 30 psi under recommended without issue (on 23s by the way). Second, I don't believe you will get more flats. You have more rubber on the road but less pressure at each point.

2: Cornering is insignificant.

3: I have changed my mind a few times on racks. The option to put them on is not a bad thing.

I used to commute on a road bike using 700x23s. I think they are fine on decent roads where you are familiar with the road. I think the main advantage of the wider tires is at night when you run over something you didn't see or when you end up being forced to ride through something you didn't want to ride through. You're less likely to flat in those situations with the wider tire.

I used a rack and the spring loaded pannier bags. I don't believe in carrying weight twice. Why do I need an extra 20 lbs of pressure on my butt?

buy what you WANT. its your $.