Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) - My Rules of Drafting!

I need a jersey with my rules posted on the back so wheelsuckers can read it!:D

Thought of this after today's ride. Rule #1: Gina's got my wheel no matter what!;)

On today's ride, someone jumped Gina's wheel, took 3rd inline. No biggie, Rule # 1 still in effect.

There was a stiff headwind on the final 12 miles of our 47 mile ride so I figured others would jump on. But one dude, who I know only rides 20 miles. We're on the final 12 of the 47 which means we have (uuh, eerr, umm uhhhh 35?) ok 35 miles on our legs including 51 from yesterday. He at the most does 20.

So I see this guy up ahead. He sees us coming up from behind and stomps on it! I know the guy so no question about it, he tried to run like so many other times I owned his arse!:D

He's about 50 yards ahead when he takes the opposite lane. His statedgy hugging the fence using it as a wind barrier. He gains some but still I'm going to own him once again so I keep my line. He runs out of fence and is back on his own after a mile or so. But he continues to look back and do the "runningman". He's talked some trash before so I can let him slide!:p One reason he's trying so hard is that he has many ride stories and knowing Gina is with me might be blow to his pride, beat by a girl!

So finally he is reeled in after 4 or 5 miles on a short uphill. As I go by he starts complaining how the lactic acid has built up in his legs. Uhh, ok Captain America, after all the stories and only 14 miles (Can't say Superman cause I'm Superman:roflmao2:). SO he jumps on at the end of the line. I can barely hear him but it's all about how tired he is and how he hasn't been onthe bike in 3 weeks. Hmm, I saw him lastweek!

So that's rule #2: If you're gonna do the "running man", don't jump on the B Train when we roll by!
Rule #3: Don't whine about your legs hurting when you're in the draft and I've been at the front.

So a couple miles later the other rider pulls up along my side and hangs ther for 3 or 4 minutes. "Wow, it's windy up here!'. No sheot Sherlock! SO instead of offering to take the lead for a break, the rider stays on my side wasting energy when they could be helping. Rule #4: If you're gonna be a NoSheot Sherlock and not help, just stay the he** back!

So 2 miles later, the same rider pulls up and asks, "do your legs hurt?" Of course they hurt but there is a big stiff headwind and I want to get back! SO rule #5: If you're gonna be a No Sheot Sherlock, there is also a rule about asking stupid questions! So please apply #5 to yourself if you're also #4, cut out the middleman!

So before our ride ends, the other riders turn off and end their rides. After they drop off Gina asks, " why were your riding so hard?". Which brings us to rule #6. No matter what the real answer is, be nice to wife and give a good sweet answer, maybe apologize or else!;)


Oh, and a picture from today. A couple of SoCal forum members were kind enough to ride up from the San Diego area just to get their picture taken!:D I believe they did a century!:thumb:

Me, GrumpyPig and RobertKat. PS: These guys had nothing to do with the rule ride. They are Socal members which means they are cool so I'm posting the pic!


http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l267/gulpxtreme/092209C.jpg

RULE #7: THIS POST IS FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY SO DON'T START WITH THE TESTOSTERONE ACCUSATIONS ALREADY!:p

Beanz, we already know you're overloaded with Tst. ;) We expect it of you and are definitely entertained by it! :D

Beanz, we already know you're overloaded with Tst. ;) We expect it of you and are definitely entertained by it! :D


Oh!...Well then Rule #8. If you know it and are entetained by it, then rule #8 voids rule #7 !:D

Beanz, are you sure you're not fudging the numbers?

From what I see in the above pix, you look to be fit as a fiddle. Are you sure that you are really one of us?

I'll say this....you definitely serve as an inspiration for this not-quite-so-fit Clyde.

I need to find someone to ride with like you that can push my limits everytime I go to do a training ride, instead of just my own pace. It might be harder for me, but I don't always push myself hard enough.

I need to find someone to ride with like you that can push my limits everytime I go to do a training ride, instead of just my own pace. It might be harder for me, but I don't always push myself hard enough.

I am in the same boat. I ride with a guy that can ride much faster than me and while it does hurt my pride a bit when he sprints away from me from time to time it does make me better.

Rule #1-#10 HTFU if you can't pull up front don't. And if you set a pace out front that everyone riding with you can't maintain when they go out front rules #1-10 apply to you! I always laugh when guys riding with others below thier level complain when no one wants to help. There are days when I go out front and I know I'm going it alone but I don't comment on it. Well I may say how I killed everyone...:)'

Yer gonna need a bigger jersey to fit all those rules on it!!

Rule #1-#10 HTFU if you can't pull up front don't. And if you set a pace out front that everyone riding with you can't maintain when they go out front rules #1-10 apply to you! I always laugh when guys riding with others below thier level complain when no one wants to help. There are days when I go out front and I know I'm going it alone but I don't comment on it. Well I may say how I killed everyone...:)'


Well I guess I forgot to mention that the other two riders are known to draft for 10 miles, then sprint around in an attempt to drop us. But always end up dropping back into the line when they realize they
aren't going anywhere.

I just can't figure out why they don't help out instead of wasting their energy. I'm pretty sure I could kill them all like you but why? I feel better keeping things together to make it good for everyone. So if I'm willing to make the ride enjoyable for them, they ought to maybe think about returning the favor once in awhile!

Don't forget that my wife too is riding with me. So I wouldn't feel good about "killing them all" when it would involve killing my wife too!;)

Beanz, are you sure you're not fudging the numbers?

From what I see in the above pix, you look to be fit as a fiddle. Are you sure that you are really one of us?

I'll say this....you definitely serve as an inspiration for this not-quite-so-fit Clyde.

No fudging, I'm a clyde. 6'1 and down from 250 to 238 now. I want to be at 220 by June for a major climbing ride. 10,000 ft of climbing. Now that's one place drafting won't help!:D

It's a timed event. I've done it 3 times with my best in 04 (7:40 total time/7:10 ride time). I'd like to try to break my record but haven't done the ride since 05. But we'll see, I'm much older now so if I don't, no biggie!:p

Yer gonna need a bigger jersey to fit all those rules on it!!

Might I suggest a cape or would they confuse him with Captain America:eek:

Have you tried moving left and dropping back then Gina takes a short pull and does the same followed by the latch on riders? I've never really gotten the hang of a rotation or in one myself but I thought the front person moved off and back *shrug*

Edit: Yes I do in fact ride a road bike though mostly just on the weekend group rides. I'm not trying to rotate pulls with a lowracer because I dont' get any draft off a road bike when I'm on my quasi-low racer.

Have you tried moving left and dropping back then Gina takes a short pull and does the same followed by the latch on riders? I've never really gotten the hang of a rotation or in one myself but I thought the front person moved off and back *shrug*


Believe it or not, I have done that and she will take a pull. But the others stay behind her so I have no choice but to go back up. If she slows to pull off, they will stay behind her. Remember I am talking about a couple of riders on this day, not every ride or everyone we ride with.

But some rides I do know and plan to stay out front and do pull for 72 milers!:thumb:...But that is planned.

I have done some rotating paceline riding. It was a blast but those guys are hard to find. Usually it's one or two willing strong guys and that's it!:(

I don't get that. If you are going to go out and suck off someones draft besides being a leach what do you get out of it? How much practice do you need suck off someones wheel? All those folks need their mileage discounted and they certainly aren't doing themselves any favor in the exercise department. Probably the same folks with stripped down road bikes who can't be bothered to carry a pump, co2, tube or even a patch kit. :mad:

Hm... I think I see why I ride alone much of the time :innocent:

I don't get that. If you are going to go out and suck off someones draft besides being a leach what do you get out of it? How much practice do you need suck off someones wheel? All those folks need their mileage discounted and they certainly aren't doing themselves any favor in the exercise department. Probably the same folks with stripped down road bikes who can't be bothered to carry a pump, co2, tube or even a patch kit. :mad:

Hm... I think I see why I ride alone much of the time :innocent:


Exactly, the people that were drafting us were uninvited.;)..I start the ride with only Gina. The previous day we ran into a couple of guys that worked with us. Now that was enjoyable. I told them up front that I would but if Gina dropped, I would too but I'd do my share and she would be lucky to hang on. They had no problem.:thumb:.....I had ridden with one of the guys on a previous ride and knew he was a teamplayer!:D

Well I may say how I killed everyone...:)'


Yeah but your posts are always about pushing on the flats. The difference between me and you is that I can drop them in the hills and you can't. Want documented proof, let me know. Results are posted on the web!;)...I was 220 and can give you the name of 275 riders that couldn't keep up on a 10,000 ft climb!:D

When you HTFU, you'll go do one of these rides!;)

Oh I don't need to HTFU I know my limits and climbing is not an issue for me either. Yes I push flats so I can wear them out to pass them on the hills. I just don't brag about it. No I don't climb mountains don't have to were I live. I do know guys who go to southern Cal every year to ride in the fall and they do all the mountains and from what they say, and this is just second hand is. Yes they are non stop climbing but at steady grade sure there is some high grades but for the most part around 4-7%. Again second hand but from what they say it's tougher on some of our sections of roads were we have short steep climbs like 1km long but average 11% with kicks up to 16%. As for flats, what I call flats may be different than what you think and hey reality is we'll never ride with one another so we can say whatever we want to each other.

Well, no one milers here! This is my backyard. Most often we approach from the otherside which makes it 21 mile climb. 6% average for the first 8, I'll do it twice. Then 4 or 5 for the next 13 miles. That's the easy ride. Then there is BigBear, climbs up to 8400 feet in 50 or so miles, BA but after doing Oak Glen, 7 miler with 14% grades. Then Forest Falls, my toughest ride after doing Oakglen with 22% grade on a standard double. That hurt but I did it!

Not sure where your friends are riding but a one km climb (.6 miles) tougher than ForestFalls, Oakglen,Baldy or Bigbear? Must be second hand info!


And I'm sorry but I've read your posts. Yes, you are bragging about pushing on the flats,. But then claim to get dropped on the hills. Then the others are happy to be with you cause you're so big and none of the others will say anything to your buds cause they are scared of you? Sounds like bragging to me mister! That's cool, I'm still bigger than you! Maybe all the other roadies are scared of me too!;)

Don't make me flex my quads and pose by the trainer!:roflmao2:

http://www.socalvelo.com/images/Profiles/mt.baldy.gif

Oh if there is anyone who can't talk about bragging you are the King and yes I read your post to and no I don't flex my quads in front of trainer, I may take my picture in front of a trainer but flex... no, you lift too and anyone who lifts can tell you after a workout you have a natuarl pump. Of coarse my quads don't stick out all the time that's just silly. You can ryhme off every hill mountain and knoll in your backyard you want, means nothing to me. Heck I admire ya and sorry I offended you in some way. I've only been at this for two years and as a fellow clyde seeing how you can ride inspires me. I'm pretty sure the guys who drop me now always will, 150lbs guys who race all the time tend to be pretty strong. Do I brag yep, isin't the males nature to brag about everything they accomplish. I'm proud of what I've done so far on the bike just as you are. Also lets face it I'd be one of those guys who you would kill on the mountains no doubt but hey I'd take my turn pulling on the flats and rollers for ya...lol

Well allright then, just don't make me flex or I'll scare you!:D

^^^^^Depends on what you flex.

You forgot the most important rule of drafting.....

Rule #A, B,C and D: Always tilt your mug under the tap to reduce the foam.

You forgot the most important rule of drafting.....

Rule #A, B,C and D: Always tilt your mug under the tap to reduce the foam.

I don't practice those rules. Last time I drank a beer might have been 10 years ago. Maybe 6 or 7 cups or cans of beer in my entire 45 years of life on this earth. Being raise a Catholic, consuming alcohol is against my religion. Nobody ever said anything about riding a bike!:D

Well I guess I forgot to mention that the other two riders are known to draft for 10 miles, then sprint around in an attempt to drop us. But always end up dropping back into the line when they realize they
aren't going anywhere.

I just can't figure out why they don't help out instead of wasting their energy. I'm pretty sure I could kill them all like you but why? I feel better keeping things together to make it good for everyone. So if I'm willing to make the ride enjoyable for them, they ought to maybe think about returning the favor once in awhile!

Don't forget that my wife too is riding with me. So I wouldn't feel good about "killing them all" when it would involve killing my wife too!;)


I think you two (youcoming & Mr. Beanz) should race. The trash is gettin' deep.

That would be cool but I aint going to Canada. I heard there are a bunch of gang members there!:eek:

That would be cool but I aint going to Canada. I heard there are a bunch of gang members there!:eek:


I know what you mean ---- makes Compton look like Iowa.:D

I'm thinkin' of signing up for a real race this summer (vs. a ride or a timed ride). Haven't done one since college some 20+ years ago, and perhaps I've forgotten how much it can hurt. Seems like a good way to get motivated to ride more and dump some more lbs.

I could use somebody to come out and pull me around the course and then politely step aside at the finish -- sounds like you wouldn't be up for that..?..?..

I'd feel used!:D

Matter of fact, the guy that rode with us used to race. He asked why I don't race. I explained it to him then he shot around on the last 20 yards and raised his arms in the air like Lance!:p

I don't practice those rules. Last time I drank a beer might have been 10 years ago. Maybe 6 or 7 cups or cans of beer in my entire 45 years of life on this earth. Being raise a Catholic, consuming alcohol is against my religion. Nobody ever said anything about riding a bike!:D

Catholics can't drink????? That is amazing!!!! We must have different Catholics in our area.

I think you two (youcoming & Mr. Beanz) should race. The trash is gettin' deep.

I'm like Beanz and don't race, plus I have a feeling if we actually rode together we'ed end up having to much of a fun time to bother racing. And hey not all things are rosey in Canada, drugs no, no boundries, the small city I liv ein has a huge crack presence with busts happening all the time, heck we can't even have hand guns to protect ourselves.

Oh the smell of testoterone. Sort of like Flonaise, without that wimpy flowery perfume added to it... :lol:

CGK1's single simple rule of drafting: Don't.

I'm like Beanz and don't race, plus I have a feeling if we actually rode together we'ed end up having to much of a fun time to bother racing. And hey not all things are rosey in Canada, drugs no, no boundries, the small city I liv ein has a huge crack presence with busts happening all the time, heck we can't even have hand guns to protect ourselves.


My comments were somewhat of a joke. Heck, here 11 yo kids are shootng their stepmothers in back of the head with 20g shotguns!:eek:

I'm like Beanz and don't race, plus I have a feeling if we actually rode together we'ed end up having to much of a fun time to bother racing. And hey not all things are rosey in Canada, drugs no, no boundries, the small city I liv ein has a huge crack presence with busts happening all the time, heck we can't even have hand guns to protect ourselves.
I wonder if the I had a better chance to live if I smoked it (shot up??) defense ever would work. I mean I'm sure it might be a reasonable course of action in certain situation.

Hey how about you only get a hit if you pull your fair share?

...Heck, here 11 yo kids are shootng their stepmothers in back of the head with 20g shotguns!:eek:

That would be with custom designed CHILDREN'S shotguns.:(

question about drafting.....I ride mostly on a trail and we ride side by side and talk. Our last ride was 58 miles and a strong headwind the last 29 miles. Does drafting really make a big difference? The guy I ride with is about 6'2" and 250 and I am 6'4" and 227.....I guess what I want to know is if we draft instead of riding side by side, how many more miles do you think we could ride? That is on a very Straight and FLAT FLORIDA trail, with only one curve in 29 miles.

question about drafting.....I ride mostly on a trail and we ride side by side and talk. Our last ride was 58 miles and a strong headwind the last 29 miles. Does drafting really make a big difference? The guy I ride with is about 6'2" and 250 and I am 6'4" and 227.....I guess what I want to know is if we draft instead of riding side by side, how many more miles do you think we could ride? That is on a very Straight and FLAT FLORIDA trail, with only one curve in 29 miles.

Why don't YOU try it and let us know how much quicker you're able to cover the 58 miles?

question about drafting.....I ride mostly on a trail and we ride side by side and talk. Our last ride was 58 miles and a strong headwind the last 29 miles. Does drafting really make a big difference? The guy I ride with is about 6'2" and 250 and I am 6'4" and 227.....I guess what I want to know is if we draft instead of riding side by side, how many more miles do you think we could ride? That is on a very Straight and FLAT FLORIDA trail, with only one curve in 29 miles.

I've heard it conserves about 15% of your energy. If you get a partner that is willing to ride with you, it's great. Even if one rider pulls 5 minutes and the other pulls 2. In a good team effort, it's not about trying to ditch the other guy, it's about giving him a break allowing him to recover. Most other riders pull up to the front and lift the pace by 6 mph then fade after one minute. If the other guy is doing 20, then hold 20 when you get up there. It's about trying to hold a good pace consistently. Don't sprint off at 26!:eek:

I'd say that 15% is a conservative estimate, probably 25-30%. I still spin with the same cadence, but simply go much faster. So the workout is still significant and the ride is much quicker. If you are with people that know what they are doing it is very easy. IMO a 5 minute pull is kinda long when in a group. Pull for a couple minutes then rotate. I'm no expert but this is what i've seen from my humble experiences. Everyone pulls for a little while and everyone stays fresh.

I've heard it conserves about 15% of your energy. If you get a partner that is willing to ride with you, it's great. Even if one rider pulls 5 minutes and the other pulls 2. In a good team effort, it's not about trying to ditch the other guy, it's about giving him a break allowing him to recover. Most other riders pull up to the front and lift the pace by 6 mph then fade after one minute. If the other guy is doing 20, then hold 20 when you get up there. It's about trying to hold a good pace consistently. Don't sprint off at 26!:eek:

REminds me of th efirst time I was in a paceline. I got up front and didn't slow down to rotate in. Ride leader came up behind me grabbed my jersey pulled me back and in no better terms told me to stop being an a**, then explained exactly what Beanz said. Hold off on the sprint till you close in on pre determined sprint points and only if you did your time up front.

IMO a 5 minute pull is kinda long when in a group.


It is but I was going off what the question he asked about the two of them. Figuring one is more than likely stronger than the other. He can do longer pulls to equal out the equation.

I once rode in a line of 10 willing riders. We all did one minute at the front. It was cool!:thumb:

Another rule or drafting I forgot all about is no SNOT ROCKETS. We have a former racer from Europe who seems to forget he's no longer in the pros and we do not appreciate his skill at blowing it right at ya!

It is but I was going off what the question he asked about the two of them. Figuring one is more than likely stronger than the other. He can do longer pulls to equal out the equation.

I once rode in a line of 10 willing riders. We all did one minute at the front. It was cool!:thumb:


yeah if you have 10 strong riders that all take turns like that for a minute it can really be a blast

whoops double post

It is easy for me to lose my rotating paceline mojo. Just a few months of riding mostly alone, and I get scolded for pushing too hard off the front when it is my turn. Happens EVERY SINGLE YEAR too. I always think that I'm not doing it too, but the riders around here are quick to point out that I DO. Every, single, year. :o

I don't know what percent energy riding in a paceline saves you, but riding with people that are willing to take their turns pulling can make a HUGE difference. Riding with other people is also fun in general. Even if you don't talk much while riding, like me (no, I'm not trying to be rude or am mad at you, I'm just doing my riding and thinking...thing), cooperating with other riders certainly adds something extra to riding in general.

Unlike Mr. Beanz, I don't really mind wheel-suckers. As long as they don't ride erratically in front of me, I'm fine. I don't have that competitive race mentality either. Just keeping up with guys that weigh 35+ lbs less than I do on any 3+ hour ride is good enough for me.

I don't like whiners either. When I've been lazy and suck, I just fess up. I've sucked before, and lived through it. No biggie. I expect the same out of others. No whining, and blaming everything else under the sun.

This is supposed to be fun, right?

Thanks guys.....My next ride will be the Tour de Cure in Venice on March 1st......I am riding it alone, but I am hoping to jump in with a group like Jess did. It is my first attempt at a century so wish me luck.

I ride pacelines a lot. Of course I am a favorite because of my size, but no big deal. Rotating is the key to a good paceline. If a rider stays in front too long he/she cannot hold on when they rotate back.
Most of the time I will increase my average speed 3 MPH or so in a paceline over riding solo. I think part of that is the drafting and part of that is the challenge of staying with the group.

Thought of this after today's ride. Rule #1: Gina's got my wheel no matter what!;)


And I've got hers! :thumb:

I think I posted this video before but it's a great example on how drafting and paceline should be done.
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/video/video.asp?Title=pace+riders&File=showcase/paceriders/paceriders&VideoPref=vfastwm

I think I posted this video before but it's a great example on how drafting and paceline should be done.
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/video/video.asp?Title=pace+riders&File=showcase/paceriders/paceriders&VideoPref=vfastwm

very coooool. I was googling like crazy looking for that the other day. Thanks for posting!

I'd say that 15% is a conservative estimate, probably 25-30%.Definitely. Also, when you're in a large, unorganized (non-paceline) pack, it's a better draft than when you're in a single-file paceline (which is better than alone).


Pull for a couple minutes then rotate. I'm no expert but this is what i've seen from my humble experiences. Everyone pulls for a little while and everyone stays fresh.Yep...general rule of thumb is: the more riders sharing in the line, the less time you spend on the front. Many non-racers don't understand this. I wonder if it annoys them when I get to the front only to pull off right away when we have a group of 15-20.

Absolute rule is: when your speed starts to even hint at slowing, get off the front. (Of course, by then, you're too late--you've used all your matches--and will probably be off-the-back anyway. :rolleyes:)


question about drafting.....I ride mostly on a trail and we ride side by side and talk. Our last ride was 58 miles and a strong headwind the last 29 miles. Does drafting really make a big difference? The guy I ride with is about 6'2" and 250 and I am 6'4" and 227.....I guess what I want to know is if we draft instead of riding side by side, how many more miles do you think we could ride? That is on a very Straight and FLAT FLORIDA trail, with only one curve in 29 miles.Ummm...yeah...it does. (Downside: not easy to converse. So pacelines are best only when it suits your purposes.)