Triathlon - swimming break through

2 days this week I was able to swim freestyle without breathing every stroke of my right arm ... yeah. So now I can breathe every other stroke of my right arm. Every now and then I need to do a double, meaning: take a breath at the next stroke before go 2. I guess the best thing is to work in a breath on the other side so I don't have to go as long without air.

I consider myself pretty fit but I'm still stopping after every lap to rest and breathe. Any suggestions? Should I slow down?

Another swimming issue I have is my left arm/shoulder is sore. Since I'm breathing all on my right side I "think" I ma reaching out too far with my left arm, or there is something about how I'm lifting it out of the water, too far maybe. Anything come to mind?

I'm currently working on a regular 500 meters, that's 20 laps. I know it's not much but I have to start with something. I can get the 20 laps done in a little bit over 30 minutes. Last night I felt like I could have easily done another 4 laps.

So I'm working on my breathing, stroke technique & distance. Yes, the pool is an official 25 meeter pool. BTW: I never swam freestyle or these distances before. In college I had to swim a mile (and other things) to get into the YMCA SCUBA class but there was no restriction on stroke style or time limit. So I'm really happy about this progress I'm making.

I do not think there is anything wrong with breathing every stroke. I noticed that Phelps breathed every stroke when he was swimming multiple events in the same day during the Olympics. It will help you keep your heart rate down and regulate your breathing. The more you swim the easier it will get. I found that mixing in some intervals into swimming workouts helps me increase endurance and speed.

Try a couple of warm up laps then swim 25 meters as fast as you can, followed by 25 meters of recovery. Repeat 6-8 times. Then do some cool down laps. After doing this for a couple of weeks, you can time your 500 meter swim to check your progress.

You can then work up to sprinting 50 meters or 100 meters followed by a 25 meter recovery. The progress will come quickly.

Good luck!!

Another swimming issue I have is my left arm/shoulder is sore. Since I'm breathing all on my right side I "think" I ma reaching out too far with my left arm, or there is something about how I'm lifting it out of the water, too far maybe. Anything come to mind?.


Rotator cuff problems are common in the swimming world. You may find as I did, the problem is not the reach out of the water, it is the pull underwater. The way to ease the pressure on the rotator cuff is to make your pull underwater shallower; bend the elbow and pull your hand along closer under your body. Don't forget to stretch the shoulder after you are completely warmed up.

To work on breathing, use a leg float and just do an arm pull and try concentrating on alternating your breathing on each side.

good concrete info guys thanks

I breathe every right stroke, when swimming if you are not breathing often enough you get a lack of oxygen fairly quickly. I was told by my coach that you want to breathe every stroke... Also I think that you are having to stop so often because you aren't breathing enough

I can breathe every fourth stroke for two miles. I am not a speed demon though. I know I am supposed to breathe every third so that my head is opposite, but my neck doesn't always agree. It is in my plans of getting a coach to work on my stroke once I get past the bad gastrocnemius muscle pull.

Rotator cuff problems are common in the swimming world. You may find as I did, the problem is not the reach out of the water, it is the pull underwater. The way to ease the pressure on the rotator cuff is to make your pull underwater shallower; bend the elbow and pull your hand along closer under your body. Don't forget to stretch the shoulder after you are completely warmed up.

To work on breathing, use a leg float and just do an arm pull and try concentrating on alternating your breathing on each side.

+1 on Bending your elbow through the stroke. Here's one way to think about it. Your entire arm is the "paddle" pulling you through the water, not just your hand. The entire undersurface of your arm sould be pussing water. This also happens to keep your sholder straight out. Also, you're correct that if you are breathing to your right, you may be reaching accross your central axis with your left arm. THis way my major problem in 4 years of college swimming.

interesting breathing notes

about reaching, I was saying I thought I was stretching my left arm to far ahead not across

You are most likely pushing down through your pull to help your breathing. Very common in swimming. Key is when hand enters the water to make sure you have rotation to your left side sweep the arm from your elbow to your hand towards your hip then finish your pull. Some good drills to learn swimming with your hole arms is to swim with just your fist. Concentrate on using your forearm to pull the water. Also another thing is to not think about pulling your hand through the water but rather anchoring your hand and pulling your body by our arm.

interesting, can't wait to try this tomorrow, I would go tonight but I'm picking up some new tires at REI!

I used to hate swimming. I got back in the pool four weeks ago (after a year off). Last winter during a two month period was when I taught myself how to swim with tips from a friend and advice from BF. One of the best things I did early on was learn to breath every third stroke so I could alternate sides. I'm a bit obsessive compulsive and I don't think I'd be able to swim more than a couple of laps just breathing on one side. I think I'd ****z-out or something. It be like only pedaling with one foot. Breakthroughs have been happening on a daily basis now, and I'm addicted.

1st week:
swam 2 days-(25yd pool) 1x15 intervals; that is-- 1 lap rest and breath, another lap, rest and breath etc.
Completely wiped me out.

2nd week:
swam 2 days- 2x10; that is 2 lap intervals with a minute of rest between. and a 5 minute rest after the 10th lap.
Feeling better, made a mental note to eat a little more earlier in the day. Felt remiss that I didn't get another day in.

3rd week:
swam 3 days- 2x10 intervals; decreased the rest gap between intervals.
Mental note to slow down and focus on form and stroke

This week:
swam three days (4 by the end of the weekend)- 3x10 intervals (1 minute breaks) w/ 10 minute stretch and rest at 1/2 way point (15th lap). Including the breaks I'm getting done in 50 minutes.
Mentally and physically I feel amazing in the water. I haven't practiced a kick-turn yet but I don't care.

Next week's goal:
Add another 10 laps (40 total)
Complete within an hour
focus on leg movement, efficiency and over-all body posture.

So my point is, keep at it and the improvements should be exponential. I'm coupling this with weight-training one night a week, a weekly 5k run, and a fair amount of cycling.

Wow, I can't believe "****" is a censored word. --> zaps:lol:

Scubachisteve - right on man! I mean about the workouts!

Scubachisteve - right on man! I mean about the workouts!

Thanks, dude. Keep it up, yourself!

hey wait a second I just realized I don't fully understand your nomenclature
in weight training, I'm doing a regular 5x5, that's 5 sets of 5 reps. What did you mean by a 2x10 (literally)

thanks

hey wait a second I just realized I don't fully understand your nomenclature
in weight training, I'm doing a regular 5x5, that's 5 sets of 5 reps. What did you mean by a 2x10 (literally)

thanks

Sorry, I have mine reversed. 10 Reps of 2 laps.

Currently I'm swimming 10 Reps of 3 laps (in about 40 minutes). With a fair amount of rest after the 5th rep. Except for last night when I bonked after 20-laps. The failings of the woman next to me made it feel like an open-water swim, so it was much harder to focus on my pace and form.

Oh OK, thanks. 10 sets of 2 laps would be a good progression for me. I feel silly stopping after every lap.

Reg: open water - don't know what I would without that line on the bottom ... :-)

You guys are counting a lap as two lengths..right?

+1 on the shallow stroke with a bent arm to reduce shoulder pain. I've been lap swimming for 22 years and if my stroke gets off I get shoulder pain. Had to take 9 months off once whn the pain wouldn't go away.

The thing that helped me most was my wife telling me not to kick so much. I can swim with my arms, a good roll, and minimal kick just as fast as before and using a lot less energy.

My personal breakthrough came this week. I broke my upper arm Oct. 12th. Got it out of the immobilization device Dec. 15th. Couldn't move the shoulder more than a bit.

This week I finally swam 1500 meters again. Did it three times during the week 30:00, 29:20 and today 28:52. That's pretty good considering everything. I'm a 59 year old age-grouper and at best last summer was only duing 27 and change.

My arm still hurts a bit, but it makes me concentrate on technique and I am staying pretty flat in the water. Using more of the "Total Immersion" roll than normal on my bad arm side, but overall, I'm HAPPY!

TysonB

You guys are counting a lap as two lengths..right?

Yep. 1 lap = 50 yds.

My personal breakthrough came this week. I broke my upper arm Oct. 12th. Got it out of the immobilization device Dec. 15th. Couldn't move the shoulder more than a bit.

This week I finally swam 1500 meters again. Did it three times during the week 30:00, 29:20 and today 28:52. That's pretty good considering everything. I'm a 59 year old age-grouper and at best last summer was only duing 27 and change.

My arm still hutrts a bit, but it makes me concentrate on technique and I am staying pretty flat in the water. Using a more of the "Total Immersion" roll than normal on my bad arm side, but overall, I'm HAPPY!

TysonB

You put us all to shame!:thumb:

a lap is just one 25 yard length, like a racing lap is one time around a track, or running one time around the track

Hopefully you've heard of the book "TOTAL IMMERSION" by now. If not, you MUST read this book and do the basics drills if you want to improve at all. It won't make you swim like a pro, but it fixes the most common beginner errors of having incorrect body position (feet below head), which will severely limit your ability to swim long or fast. If you're in good aerobic shape, but can barely survive 8 pool lengths, you really, really must read this book.

Yes Michael Phelps breathes every stroke, but he eats 12,000 calories per day too. Swimmers are always trying to increase lung capacity. Try laps alternating every 3, every 5, etc... or do 5 breaths per lap, 4, etc... and just to put breath into perspective I am not very good but I can do 50 yards without a breath.

who said anything about barely making 8 lengths?

oh and 50 meters without breathing - yeah right

thanks for the book suggestion - I will look for it! :thumb:

I consider myself pretty fit but I'm still stopping after every lap to rest and breathe. Any suggestions? Should I slow down?


I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. If you're stopping after every lap to rest and breathe, you definitely would not be able to swim 8 laps continuously (unless you're doing sprints, of course.)

Rotator cuff problems are common in the swimming world. You may find as I did, the problem is not the reach out of the water, it is the pull underwater. The way to ease the pressure on the rotator cuff is to make your pull underwater shallower; bend the elbow and pull your hand along closer under your body. Don't forget to stretch the shoulder after you are completely warmed up.

To work on breathing, use a leg float and just do an arm pull and try concentrating on alternating your breathing on each side.

I have to say that this is probably not the way to go. Actually, it certainly is not the way to go. This could relieve any pain that you are having as long as you are not actually pulling quickly under the water. As a "professional" swim coach, this is something that I would not teach anyone to do. If you are pulling with some force this will actually cause some shoulder impingement. To alleviate your pain (and to get faster) you should try pulling with your forearm, as others have suggested, with your fingers pointed towards the bottom. When your hand enters the water some people describe the position your arm should be in as if you are reaching over a barrel. Once you get into that position, you should use your forearm to "pull".

As for breathing every stroke, this is something that you can do ONLY if you are a REALLY good swimmer. Generally, most of us are not. We need to swim a majority of laps breathing to both sides to keep our strokes honest. Many swimmers train while breathing to both sides, then race when breathing to one side. If you continually breath to the same side, you will eventually hurt one shoulder. You can trying one lap breathing only to the right side, then another breathing to the left side. Then you can still breathe every stroke if you wish. This brings me to another point: Generally people who get tired easily in swimming are not spending enough time exhaling. Blowing bubbles is the most important thing in swimming. Breathing every 3rd or 5th stroke will help you exhale slower.

I would also recommend to any swimmer that they take breaks during their swims. When Michael Phelps trains sure he does the occasional 3,000 yards without stopping, but 90% of the time he is doing 25, 50, 100, 200 yards in a row then stopping for 10,20,30 seconds - then he goes again. I see triathletes swim and swim and swim without stopping all of the time. I wonder what they are working on. They get more tired. Their strokes fall apart.....it just gets ugly.

Sorry for the rant, riding my bike is only my hobby. Coaching swimming is my passion (and job!). :thumb:

nbac23 - who are the "they" mentioned in your signature? students? why do I think you coach little league too? nice avatar

about your advice - I appreciate it. I feel like a slug though because our company moved this week and I haven't been to any of my gyms since last weekend. I had a routine and now it's blown out of the water, every pun intended. In place of my 2 mile lunchtime run on my gym's treadmill, I walk the indoor mall with "the ladies" ugh. and after work I just went straight home for dinner and tv, double ugh

I don't feel so bad now for stopping after every lap and I feel that the more I train the shorter my rests will be. When I started a couple months ago I was jumping back in the whirlpool after every round trip - not sure to call a lap a lap or a round trip a lap ... in any case this next week is gonna be different than last week, I swear

I have to say that this is probably not the way to go. Actually, it certainly is not the way to go. This could relieve any pain that you are having as long as you are not actually pulling quickly under the water. As a "professional" swim coach, this is something that I would not teach anyone to do. If you are pulling with some force this will actually cause some shoulder impingement. To alleviate your pain (and to get faster) you should try pulling with your forearm, as others have suggested, with your fingers pointed towards the bottom. When your hand enters the water some people describe the position your arm should be in as if you are reaching over a barrel. Once you get into that position, you should use your forearm to "pull".

As for breathing every stroke, this is something that you can do ONLY if you are a REALLY good swimmer. Generally, most of us are not. We need to swim a majority of laps breathing to both sides to keep our strokes honest. Many swimmers train while breathing to both sides, then race when breathing to one side. If you continually breath to the same side, you will eventually hurt one shoulder. You can trying one lap breathing only to the right side, then another breathing to the left side. Then you can still breathe every stroke if you wish. This brings me to another point: Generally people who get tired easily in swimming are not spending enough time exhaling. Blowing bubbles is the most important thing in swimming. Breathing every 3rd or 5th stroke will help you exhale slower.

I would also recommend to any swimmer that they take breaks during their swims. When Michael Phelps trains sure he does the occasional 3,000 yards without stopping, but 90% of the time he is doing 25, 50, 100, 200 yards in a row then stopping for 10,20,30 seconds - then he goes again. I see triathletes swim and swim and swim without stopping all of the time. I wonder what they are working on. They get more tired. Their strokes fall apart.....it just gets ugly.

Sorry for the rant, riding my bike is only my hobby. Coaching swimming is my passion (and job!). :thumb:

Have you looked at the book SWIMMING FASTEST by Maglischo? It's a big fat textbook on all aspects of swimming, and I didn't see anything about breathing every stroke being only for very good swimmers. In fact, he recommends it for anyone swimming over sprint distances, as it is gives the most oxygenation, and that is generally the limiting factor in non-sprint races.

Learning to alternate breathing on the right and then left sides is important to tri's so you can see if you're on course and not swimming into someone

How do I evaluate my speed. With running, it's pretty clear to me what a jog is, what a 2 mile run is, and what sprinting is for me. With swimming I just find my comfort zone and do that, but I don't what it is, a jog, a run, or a sprint.

One thing I do to measure my efficiency is count the number of strokes to do a lap. Getting faster and stronger involves improving form and techique as much as anything.

You can also time your laps.

Have you looked at the book SWIMMING FASTEST by Maglischo? It's a big fat textbook on all aspects of swimming, and I didn't see anything about breathing every stroke being only for very good swimmers. In fact, he recommends it for anyone swimming over sprint distances, as it is gives the most oxygenation, and that is generally the limiting factor in non-sprint races.

I have read/browsed Maglischo's books (Swimming Fast, Swimming Faster, Swimming Fastest). They have a lot of good stuff in it, but in swimming circles we take that with a grain of salt. Things in swimming change ALL of the time. Maybe thats why he has three books on the exact same subject! He has to keep updating it with the times..... I would say that getting oxygen is very important and is the main reason that most top racers (in events other than sprints) do breathe on every stroke. I know a lot of swimmers that train using different patterns. Ian Thorpe (famous Austrailian swimmer that most people have heard of) races breathing to the right going one way down the pool and to the left the other way down the pool. I believe he does this so that he can keep his stroke honest over the longer distances that he competes in AND to get more oxygen.

I would not recommend that book for triathletes by the way. Its OK if you are REALLY interested in the subject, but most of the info isnt really useful for triathletes. The Terry Laughlin book "Total Immersion" is a good one for beginners. While I do not think his methods work in the Olympic swimming level, they are great for beginners. It will certainly make you swim longer without using as much energy (which is VERY important for Triathletes!!!)
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As for how to judge improvement - in swimming circles we would judge improvement 2 ways. One would be speed over a certain distance (races in competition or in practice). Another would be performance on a "set". The set could be anything. Ex: 10 One hundred yard repeats leaving every 2 minutes. Surviving would be the first step. After you can do that, how fast can you go on each one? Can you do each one faster than one minute thirty seconds? Can you do 9 faster than 1:30 and then do the last one faster than 1:20? something like that. I do not think that triathletes should be afraid of stopping during swim training. It isnt the same as training for distance running or cycling. You will maintain better technique and thus go faster. (of course you dont want to sit on the wall forever either!) As someone else said doing distances with less strokes (less work!) is also a cool thing to play around with.
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And the "they" in my signature is basically everyone that you come in contact with. If you are not having fun isnt it tough to expect others around you to enjoy life as well? (And I do not coach little league.....I have never even played baseball!)

Good advice from all - THANKS :thumb: I am sticking with it and am amazed at how my body is reacting. Not sure if it is some kind of muscle confusion everyone talks about but this new exercise (swimming) has brought me some new growth and definition all over.

I wish I could turn my brain off though. I find I get distracted and lose my form.

I think I am swimming too fast, any suggestions on slowing down? I don't rest as long between pool lengths but I still do and would love to keep going.

BTW: what's a lap? 1 length or 2?

How fast are you doing 25 yards? assuming you are in a 25 yd. pool?

25 yards would be a length and a lap is considered down and back at our pool. But, at other pools a lap is from one end to the other.

Yes, it is a standard Olympic pool. I haven't timed a length. I do 500 meters, 10 round trips, 20 lengths and it takes about 30 minutes but this includes my resting at each end. I can try to time a single 25 yard length next time I go.

A standard olympic distance is 50m.

flip - I had no idea. I've never even seen a 50 meter pool but have heard the phrase "olympic sized pool" whenever I've been informed of a 25 yard pool with lines and all. Hmm ... there must be other misinformed people out there than just me. Thanks for the info. So then an Olympic lap is 100 yards? wow - I'm even more impressed with those athletes now!

a lap is one length of the pool regardless if it is 25 yards, meters or 50 meters. You wont find many 50 meter indoor pools but there are few outdoor pools that are 50 meter you just may have never noticed it. In the swimming world people usually dont talk how many laps they did they just use distance. Most high school age swimmers do 6-10 thousand a day with a few exception either way. The elite swimmers can do upwards of 15K+ a day. If you are doing 500 a day I would increase your swim time and pick up an extra 200 a week.

Thanks kcgolf. I appreciate the advice! Just when I was getting comfortable with 500 you add ... :-)

Wow I had no idea HS swimmers went to such great lengths. (sorry for the pun - it just came out)

BTW I'll be 50 in a couple of weeks and never swam like this before so I'm excited to be making any progress. The most i swam was a mile at age 17 to get into my SCUBA class back in 1977. UGH to be 17 again, huh? Well, maybe 23.

Weight training tonight swimming again Saturday. (cycled yesterday)

Yes Michael Phelps breathes every stroke, but he eats 12,000 calories per day too. Swimmers are always trying to increase lung capacity. Try laps alternating every 3, every 5, etc... or do 5 breaths per lap, 4, etc... and just to put breath into perspective I am not very good but I can do 50 yards without a breath.

I think Gary Hall Sr (father and coach of Olympic Gold Medalist Gary Hall Jr) will disagree with you. There is a long thread over on the slowtwitch where he gives several swim tips aimed at triathletes. Breathing MORE is one of them!

rumrunn yeah they put in the miles. Dont feel bad, I finally got back in the pool last week after 4 years off. I did 700 and said thats enough for the night. You will be surprised how quickly you will be able to add distance. There are many schools of thought on distance out there. I put more emphasis on stroke especially when trying to get into shape. There is no use swimming more if you are swimming incorrectly. Practice doesnt make perfect; Perfect practice does.

Three months ago I couldn't swim 50 meters without feeling like I was going to heave up a lung, tonight I just got home from doing a 1000 meters without stopping 1200 all together. Watch Jimmy D'shea's video under freestyle (I don't think I spelled his name correctly) on youtube, that was very helpful to me. But the thing that helped me break through the endurance barrier the most was using a bouye between my legs so I could concentrate on technique and not worry so much about drowning and drinking pool water and doing this simple step series (each unit counts as a touch or 1/2 lap) 1,2,3,4,3,2,1. At the end of your endurance workout do some 25 meter sprints and monitor you time. I recomend doing at least 2 sprints. Finally swimming is about doing, make sure you are swimming at least 3 days a week and that you don't miss except for really compelling reasons. Then one day you will find yourself feeling like you can just keep going without stopping, when that day comes you will feel a wonderful sense of accomplishment and sort of at one the universe. For those of us who were never swimmers to begin with swimming is a real kick in the ***. Now I look forward to swimming workouts whereas before I dreaded it. The reason why there are so few triathletes relatively speaking is because people give up on what challenges them most thinking they will never overcome their weaknesses, I personally think swimming is the most challenging of the three to overcome if you have little prior experience. Good luck and just do it man!

I've seen that video ans I liked it. It's always great to hear 1st hand from someone who is passionate about an activity. I dig the soundtrack too.

QUESTION - since I may just be swimming for body transformation would anyone shreak if I used a snorkel?