Professional Cycling - Lance riding the Giro is a mistake

I don't understand why Lance is riding in the Giro d'Italia this year. I know that most likely Contador's going to be the leader of Astana at the Tour de France as most likely, Lance won't be as good as the past 7 times that he's won the Tour. But he's Lance Armstrong. He should go into the Tour peaking and give his all. If he rides the Giro, he'll just be a domestique at the Tour and that will suck. Giro might have a tougher course than the Tour, but Tour has the best riders peaking. All of the best riders peak for the Tour as it is the biggest race of the year bringing more media, more money, more everything than all of the other races combined, and Lance is going to peak for the Giro? This must be a joke. Nobody watches the Giro compared to the Tour. How lame is it that he's just going to show up at the Tour and not even contend. I really hope that he drops out of the Giro after the first week and just use that as training for the Tour.

It's not about winning the TDF for Lance. It's about publicity and trying to restore his reputation. If he can race well in the Giro and the TDF with the high degree of doping controls going on he will gain back a lot of respect because many will believe that he didn't dope. At least in later years.

Also, the Giro is a test to see if he can even be competitive in a grand tour at his age after three years off.

he hasnt actually said he is going to the giro to win. he has been keeping his goals somewhat to himself.

Man who doesn't dope can't do well in both the Giro and the Tour. I believe he's clean, so IF he rides the Giro to win, he'll be a domestique for the Tour. You can't use Giro as a test for the Tour. He'll spend way too much energy and time and he'll be peaked.

This must be a joke. Nobody watches the Giro compared to the Tour.

Are you kidding? Have you ever witnessed Giro crowds? It's not as popular in the USA, but Europeans flock to the Giro in droves!


How lame is it that he's just going to show up at the Tour and not even contend.

By using that analogy, only a half dozen riders (the contenders) should show up at the Tour. Why do you have something against Lance being a domestique? What if Contador gets sick or is injured in a crash? Or the same for Leipheimer? I'm baffled at Monday morning quarterbacks who are already second guessing team strategy and the Tour is over 4 months away. :rolleyes:

Lance going to the Giro is awesome.

Actually, coming back to the team after three years away. I'm not sure that Lance has the kind of say in the matter that he used to and team managers are trying to balance Lances need for publicity with using his skills to the teams advantage.

I think Lance will be riding as a super domestic in the TDF with team managers hoping that he can perform strong enough at having an outside chance to get on the podium or place in the top ten.

I'm thinking that with the high intensity way Lance is riding early in the season that the Giro is a better goal for him in terms of trying to win a big race. If I am not mistaken, I think there is only about a 3-4 week gap between the Giro and the TDF. If a rider hits peaks fitness (or what is though as peck fitness) during the Giro I would think that he would need a little more time to recover and possibly come back at near the same or slightly higher fitness level. Maybe you could do it in 5-6 weeks, but 3-4 would be tough.

Are you kidding? Have you ever witnessed Giro crowds? It's not as popular in the USA, but Europeans flock to the Giro in droves!


By using that analogy, only a half dozen riders (the contenders) should show up at the Tour. Why do you have something against Lance being a domestique? What if Contador gets sick or is injured in a crash? Or the same for Leipheimer? I'm baffled at Monday morning quarterbacks who are already second guessing team strategy and the Tour is over 4 months away. :rolleyes:


I said COMPARED to the Tour, nobody watches the Giro. I'm not even talking about the USA crowd. Only a handful of people watch cycling in the US anyways. It's just fact that Tour de France brings more revenue, media, and crowd than all of the cycling races combined.

Yes, you're absolutely right that only half dozen riders show up to the tour to win. We're talking about Lance Armstrong here: 7 time winner. We're not talking about some Joe Schmoe. And I do have a problem with him riding as a domestique b/c he's Lance Armstrong. Even if he's been out of cycling for couple of years, I want to see what he can do at the Tour, not the Giro. So, that's why I started this topic. I'm sure many other cycling fans would like to see Lance give his all at the biggest cycling event of the year, which is the Tour de France.

You're baffled with the Monday morning Quarterbacks who are second guessing team strategy? WOW, I can't believe i'm doing that 4 months away on a forum specifically for Tour de France! I can't believe that I'm doing that. I just can't believe that I'll be writing my own opinion on a forum instead of just reading on VeloNews.

The Giro last year was sick.
And by sick I mean, it made the Tour look like a race for little babies.
And by babies, I don't mean hot women.

It's just fact that Tour de France brings more revenue, media, and crowd than all of the cycling races combined.

So this is justification for not showing up to the second largest bicycle race in the world? Lance racing at the Giro is going to substantially increase the spectator base. And he has another agenda as well, and has already stated that...to spread his message about finding a cancer cure to areas other than the TdF. It's not all about satisfying his wide-eyed fans. He has won the TdF 7 times...how many is enough for you? 10? 37? Would you be mad because he wasn't giving his all for his 38th win? It's only a number man....get over it!


And I do have a problem with him riding as a domestique b/c he's Lance Armstrong.

I think you should express your concern directly to him and, once he sees the error of his ways, I'm sure he'll be more than happy to pull out of the Giro.


I'm sure many other cycling fans would like to see Lance give his all at the biggest cycling event of the year, which is the Tour de France.

I'm sure they would too, but they (and you) aren't paying his salary, aren't organizing his yearly schedule, aren't planning Astana team strategy, aren't doing diddly to promote his "fight cancer" message....

So this is justification for not showing up to the second largest bicycle race in the world? Lance racing at the Giro is going to substantially increase the spectator base. And he has another agenda as well, and has already stated that...to spread his message about finding a cancer cure to areas other than the TdF. It's not all about satisfying his wide-eyed fans. He has won the TdF 7 times...how many is enough for you? 10? 37? Would you be mad because he wasn't giving his all for his 38th win? It's only a number man....get over it!



I think you should express your concern directly to him and, once he sees the error of his ways, I'm sure he'll be more than happy to pull out of the Giro.



I'm sure they would too, but they (and you) aren't paying his salary, aren't organizing his yearly schedule, aren't planning Astana team strategy, aren't doing diddly to promote his "fight cancer" message....

Yes, that is the justification for showing up at the biggest race of the year. I want to see the best of the best competing at the Tour. Why do you think I started this thread? It's not about the number of wins he has; I would just like to see the best competing against the best. As a fan of watching races, I like to see top riders duking it out at the biggest race.

Really? Am I not paying his salary or organizing his schedule or planning Astana's team strategy? Man, I really thought I was by posting this! I had this all wrong. I thought writing things on a forum would surely get Astana's attention! I should've never thought about writing my own opinion on a forum if I didn't get the attention of Astana!

I look forward to Lance riding the Giro... Maybe it will finally get some coverage in the USA.

One of the knocks on Armstrong is that he hasn't won any of the other big European stage races, that he's a TDF one-trick-pony. So now he's concentrating on the Giro and he's getting **** for that. Go figure.

I do agree that Giro races tend to be very exciting racing on a very tough course. And no doubt, it'll be fun to watch. However, I would just like to see Lance go against the very best riders of the world in peak form. I know he's been out of cycling for few years, but it's still Lance and wanna see it.

Are you kidding? Have you ever witnessed Giro crowds? It's not as popular in the USA, but Europeans flock to the Giro in droves!


Serious man! The Italians are WAY more fun to watch than the French.

Yeah, we wouldn't want Lance or any other rider to be foolish enough to attempt to do well in the Giro, the Tour and the Vuelta, like that idiot Merckx - what a maroon! :rolleyes:

the Giro is the only race that i have ever heard of the riders complaining that it was TOO HARD! awesome!

Here's my take on it....

September 10th Lance announces comeback

From Sept 10 to Early October..lots of press about who will be leader of Astana? What will Alberto Contador do? Will he leave?

Pretty much nothing is said and here is what I think....Johan says that Alberto Contador is currently the best rider in the world and he does not want to loose him....more thoughts.

Angelo Zomegnan fly's to Texas in early October to talk to Lance...(Fly's to Texas to talk is the key here)

I suspect that some type of deal was made (like the one in the Tour Down Under but bigger) that says if he rides the Giro they will partner with Livestrong and give the cause money.

Lance see's that for his cause it is a WIN WIN...He does the Giro and the Tour....the Giro is helping his cause and he will get great exposure in the Tour....if Alberto Contador wins the tour his cause only benefits.

So since it has been before Sept. since I have talked to Johan or Lance (kidding) this is all a guess..

:)

So since it has been before Sept. since I have talked to Johan or Lance (kidding) this is all a guess..

:)

Hahaha...glad to see we have an inside source on it! :roflmao2:

Actually, I think you may be closer to the truth than you imagine.

I think you're right Biff. In fact, wasn't Contador thinking about leaving Astana and Lance talked him out of it explaining his reasons for returning and telling him that he's the team leader for the Tour. This would give Lance the freedom to try and win the Giro and write a new chapter to his legacy and be domestique in the tour.

I have nothing but respect for Lance. After hearing his interview after the TOC. He basically said that others busted thier a** for him for 15 years and if that is what he needs to do for his team mates based on his performance level that is what he will do. And he is perfectly happy with this possibility. Even seeing it as one of his life's learning experiences.

Lance wouldn't mind winning a big race again, but I really don't think that is his agenda. After all, he has a very realistic perception of his possibilities.

Yeah, we wouldn't want Lance or any other rider to be foolish enough to attempt to do well in the Giro, the Tour and the Vuelta, like that idiot Merckx - what a maroon! :rolleyes:
Don't forget LA's team mate Contador, he was foolish enough to win all three too.

Lance stated after the tour of Cali that he enjoyed being a domestique, I don't doubt he does. He has said he is riding to spread the word about the battle against cancer. I'm sure if the opportunity arises he will try to win a race, who wouldn't. But he's also very aware that he has joined a team that has on it a 23 year old racer who has just won three grand tours in 13 months time. If Contador stays healthy, Lance will be supporting him.

"Don't forget LA's team mate Contador, he was foolish enough to win all three too."


"But he's also very aware that he has joined a team that has on it a 23 year old racer who has just won three grand tours in 13 months time. If Contador stays healthy, Lance will be supporting him."

Contador goes to Portugal to race. Hasn't even done any power or serious high intensity training yet this season and he wins the race and the TT.

In Lance's own words ... "Contador is the best GC bike racer in the world right now".

Ya Contador is the real deal. May be the most talented young bike racer since Merckx. Just being Contador's domestique are big shoes to fill.

Yes, even last year at the Giro, Contador was "thrown in" as a sort of last minute selection when the team decided to ride. And we all know how that turned out. It must be incredible to have that much talent!

I'm not sure anyone has done what Contador has done; win the 3 GTs back to back to back so to speak.

I'll echo others who have pointed out that LA in the Giro is a breath of fresh air. At this point is there a huge difference, legacy wise, between 7 or 8? Especially if #8 costs Astana the remainder of Contador's career?

I don't follow everything Lance but I do recall him stating that never riding the Giro was a regret of his and he now has a chance to rectify that. Pretty cool, IMO.

:beer:

If Lance decides to race, it's because he thinks he can win.

Lance believes he can win the Tour de France. That's all that matters.

Tour's for the big boys. Contador, Tour de France winner, decides to race the Giro at the last minute and wins. Lack of competition is a big factor, not just talent.

Lance is faced with reality that he has a realistic chance of winning the Giro, but not the Tour. I think if he gears his training towards the Tour, he has a great chance of finishing in top 3. That would be more fun to watch seeing him compete at the Tour after 3 years absence!

Tour's for the big boys. Contador, Tour de France winner, decides to race the Giro at the last minute and wins. Lack of competition is a big factor, not just talent.

Well, I'd still say there was some pretty strong talent here nonetheless...

1 Alberto Contador
2 Riccardo Riccò
3 Marzio Bruseghin
4 Franco Pellizotti
5 Denis Menchov
6 Emanuele Sella
7 Jurgen Van Den Broeck
8 Danilo Di Luca
9 Domenico Pozzovivo
10 Gilberto Simoni


Lance is faced with reality that he has a realistic chance of winning the Giro, but not the Tour.

I'll agree with you there for sure! Plus he gets the benefit of the Italian cycling fans really anticipating him riding. I think they are behind him 100% and you're going to see even bigger Giro crowds this year, if that's possible! :D

Lance going to the Giro is awesome.

Yeah. You're absolutely right.

Lance never rode the Giro, because it would interfere with his training for the TdF. But all the greats won the Giro. If he can do for the Giro what he did for the TdF with audiences in America, it will be a huge boost for a race that deserves the attention. I think the decision to focus his season on the Giro is pitch perfect.

I also think going out on top is not all it's cracked up to be (all the previous 5-timers eventually failed) and Lance may have a sense of this, that it will go a long way toward humanizing him. Not saying he'll intentionally throw either race if it's within his grasp, but his image of invincibility went hand in hand with the doubts about what he did to become invincible. Not playing it so safe becomes him.

The unfortunate side effect of Lance concentrating on the Tour every year is that most cycling fans now seem to think that the Tour is the only race that matters.
The Giro is a much tougher race year in and year out.

This must be a joke. Nobody watches the Giro compared to the Tour.

Nobody watched the Tour Down Under until this year. This is exactly why we benefit if he races the Giro, maybe VS will cover more than just a couple hours. Maybe, they will have live coverage every day like they did for the TOC.

the Giro is the only race that i have ever heard of the riders complaining that it was TOO HARD! awesome!

I think there have been some stages in the Vuelta that drew rider comments. There was one climb that had many riders off their bakes (back arround 65 or so I think).


Some of the early TDFs had the press complaining that it was going to kill the riders. Of course that was the mountian stages back before gearing.

I'm not sure anyone has done what Contador has done; win the 3 GTs back to back to back so to speak.

Merckx did over 72-73. Won the Tour in 72 and the Giro and Vuelta in 73. Keep in mind that back then the Vuelta was a spring race. That makes 3 GTs in less than 12 months. To me even more impressive, as the Giro and Vuelta were only a month apart. Of course he also had lots of rest in the spring of 73 while wining, Ghent, Paris-Roubaix, Liege, and Amstel Gold. Guess that's why he could only muster up a 2nd in Fleche Wallone and the Tour that year.

I don't follow everything Lance but I do recall him stating that never riding the Giro was a regret of his and he now has a chance to rectify that. Pretty cool, IMO.

:beer:

The Giro is generally considered the "climbers" grand tour. Perhaps even more so than the TDF. Since Climbing has been one of Lance's strengths it really is a pity that he never raced it before. So now he has his chance. As hard as he is riding early season it really is a better goal for him anyway.

Astana may be going for a TDF, Vuelta, Giro (the next season) sweep with Contador to see if they can further break the record books. Contador is so young that he can recover far better than the older riders. At his age he could realistically do this.

Does anyone know if a rider has come off winning the Giro to win the TDF since the Giro has been moved into the late spring/early summer time period?

Does anyone know if a rider has come off winning the Giro to win the TDF since the Giro has been moved into the late spring/early summer time period?

Hate to sound like a broken record, but Mr Merckx again. Won the Giro and Tour both in 72 and 74. The Giro was in it's current mid May - mid June time slot in those years.

Hate to sound like a broken record, but Mr Merckx again. Won the Giro and Tour both in 72 and 74. The Giro was in it's current mid May - mid June time slot in those years.

The Giro was moved a week later in the mid 90's.

Lance does more for his cause by winning than he does by riding second fiddle, IMO. Tooling around in France or Italy as a domestique doesnt bring nearly the world awareness as a WINNING bike rider will.

I cant remember the last time Lance was dropped on a climb and he remains one of the best TT's on the planet. If he actually rode the TdF to win it he would have a good chance. This is assuming he regains 90-95% of his form from 3 years ago.

I cant remember the last time Lance was dropped on a climb and he remains one of the best TT's on the planet.

Feb. 16, 2009 http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2009/feb09/california09/?id=results/california092

Feb. 16, 2009 http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2009/feb09/california09/?id=results/california092

Hes still returning to form, which is why i said if he returns to 90-95% of 3 years ago he has a chance.

Hes still returning to form, which is why i said if he returns to 90-95% of 3 years ago he has a chance.

Really? 'cause I thought you wrote, "I cant remember the last time Lance was dropped on a climb ..." How does Lance's form affect your memory?

Lance does more for his cause by winning than he does by riding second fiddle, IMO. Tooling around in France or Italy as a domestique doesnt bring nearly the world awareness as a WINNING bike rider will.

I cant remember the last time Lance was dropped on a climb and he remains one of the best TT's on the planet. If he actually rode the TdF to win it he would have a good chance. This is assuming he regains 90-95% of his form from 3 years ago.

I don't imagine a lot of support riders would describe what they do as "tooling around in France or Italy." He'd have to be at 100% of 3 years ago to justify not building the team strategy around Contador right now I think. And anyways, Lance wins if Astana wins. He didn't just lose the Tour of California. He helped Levi win it.

Nobody watched the Tour Down Under until this year. This is exactly why we benefit if he races the Giro, maybe VS will cover more than just a couple hours. Maybe, they will have live coverage every day like they did for the TOC.

Exactly..good point ! Maybe after all these years I will finially be able to sit down and watch the Giro.

The unfortunate side effect of Lance concentrating on the Tour every year is that most cycling fans now seem to think that the Tour is the only race that matters.
The Giro is a much tougher race year in and year out.


Not sure I agree with this statement - then again I was told by my Grandmother that "always and never are two words that usually get you in trouble ...".


Giro will always have harder stages - on paper. And the toughest of the Giro will be tougher than the Tour - for one day.

But the pressure of the Tour (modern day and as driven by the media frenzy from Lance - and not the Bob Roll frenzy in the US - I'm talkin the European frenzy), and the shear magnitude of its legacy are much harder on riders. Ask those who have won them all - the Tour is "bigger" in the theological sense of the word.

Add to that that the Tour is in more difficult weather (Giro hasn't had a real snow day in many years but the Tour is BLAZIN' HOT most years), has two sets of mountains spaced at least a week a part, and has normally much more technical routes (more road furniture on French roads than Italian roads is my experience on the bike).

Don't get me wrong - I think the Giro is a far better race than the "modern Tour" but that is largely because the French media have made the Tour into an annual travesty. Ironic that the very people who self-proclaim themselves as guardians of the Tour's heritage have turned it into an annual mockery of sport.

And I also think that, if you look at the history of the races, the Giro was a close second in greatness to the Tour but lost out on the "Lance only focuses on this one" sweepstakes.

Imagine what would have happened if Bruneel had challenged Lance to win 8 Giros in a row???

Bella Italia! :love:

Lance does more for his cause by winning than he does by riding second fiddle, IMO. Tooling around in France or Italy as a domestique doesnt bring nearly the world awareness as a WINNING bike rider will.

I cant remember the last time Lance was dropped on a climb and he remains one of the best TT's on the planet. If he actually rode the TdF to win it he would have a good chance. This is assuming he regains 90-95% of his form from 3 years ago.

Of course, Lance winning will bring more publicity but he can only do what he can do. I'm afraid if he's only back at 95% of his three years ago form, that will not be enough to win the TDF or even get on the podium. Probably be more like around 30-40th place. The time difference between 1st and 30th place will probably be less than 1% of the total time. And if he has to ride for Contador he will burn even more energy that he can't afford to expend if he is going for the yellow jersey. Even if he gets to 99% of his three years ago ability he will struggle to podium. But if anyone can do it, I would bet on him.

I don't imagine a lot of support riders would describe what they do as "tooling around in France or Italy." He'd have to be at 100% of 3 years ago to justify not building the team strategy around Contador right now I think. And anyways, Lance wins if Astana wins. He didn't just lose the Tour of California. He helped Levi win it.


To us that follow the sport Lance helped his team win. But to the majority of casual sports fans he is trying to reach, they dont understand that. They understand winning and losing, and if Lance is winning his message will reach more people than if hes riding as a super domestique. I also wasnt minimizing the tours difficulty or talent of these riders, simply that as a second fiddle he doesnt reach nearly as many as he does if hes winning.

Although you may be correct about him needing to be 100% to top Contador. At 90-95% would you say he is the #2 on that team?

A one, two, three Astana would help his cause and be a win for Lance even though he might not be on the top of the podium...

I think he playing helper to others is getting him more respect now than winning 7 times.

To us that follow the sport Lance helped his team win. But to the majority of casual sports fans he is trying to reach, they dont understand that. They understand winning and losing, and if Lance is winning his message will reach more people than if hes riding as a super domestique. I also wasnt minimizing the tours difficulty or talent of these riders, simply that as a second fiddle he doesnt reach nearly as many as he does if hes winning.

Although you may be correct about him needing to be 100% to top Contador. At 90-95% would you say he is the #2 on that team?

Good question. He'll certainly be taken as a serious threat. Hopefully for Astana the confusion will work in their favor, with other teams scrambling to cover everyone. Kloden can't be dismissed either; his season has started off well. But if Contador is in good shape he's the clear leader IMHO.

However it's a little hard to imagine Lance pulling Contador up the mountain every day leaving. It will be interesting to see how the workload is shared among Armstrong, Kloden, Popovych, Rubiera, Leipheimer, etc.

However it's a little hard to imagine Lance pulling Contador up the mountain every day leaving.

Especially if they add some climbs like they had last year. That mountain top TT finish was insane. It was the first time I'd seen a climb actually make mince meat out of so many good riders. I couldn't have ridden up that in a 30x36 :D

Especially if they add some climbs like they had last year. That mountain top TT finish was insane. It was the first time I'd seen a climb actually make mince meat out of so many good riders. I couldn't have ridden up that in a 30x36 :D

I'm going to have to find video of that TT.

OT question from the rookie: what do numbers 30x36 refer to - I've seen this written with different numbers several places, but haven't been able to figure it out.