Road Cycling - Help out the roadie newbie, please

Hey all,

So after a couple years of riding around on a comfort bike, I've decided to purchase a new road bike. The trek 2300 http://www.trekbikes.com/bikes/2004/road/2300.jsp is the one I've decided on.

Because I'm something of a beginner, I ordered the bike with the crankset of 52/42/30. However, apparently the bike is likely not going to be manufactured any time soon for my size with that setup, and so they had to locate a 53/39 for me. (Pardon me if I'm using the terminology like an idiot, again, I'm new.)

Originally, I had wanted the "granny gear" (as I understand it's called) because I'm a little nervous to start climing hills without being in great shape (read decent shape). However, the gentleman at the bike store said that even with the 53/39 things shouldn't be a problem for me. What do y'all think? For someone in decent shape, will the difference be significant?

Also, this bike has a cassette that is listed as Shimano Ultegra 12-25, 9 speed. What does the 12-25 mean? Does this 9 speed mean there are 9 different "rings" by the rear tire? So, my bike could be said to be an 18 speed? Had I been able to get the 52/42/30, would the bike be a 27 speed?

Thanks for your help. :)

39 teeth on your front chainring and a 25 on the back will be sufficient.

9 speed does indeed mean that there are nine rings on your freewheel. So yes, there are 18 gears, though some will overlap.

go for fixed gear ! It will solve all your problem ! And you will get a strong and nice looking leg in return.

39/25 may be fine. It really depends on the hills and your condition. If you find that this set-up is still too hard, you can always swap out the rear cassette to a 12-27, which will be much cheaper than changing your crankset (say to something like the FSA compact crank).

I run a 53-39 double crank with a 12-27 9-speed cassette. I find this to be plenty of gears - it puts me within about 3 gears of a 12-25 equipped triple (52-42-30). I may be lacking the fine-tuning ability of a triple, but I've not found this to be an issue at all. I test rode both doubles and triples, and found it slightly more comfortable to ride the narrower cranks of a double. I've done a couple of small climbs with this gearing and had no problems. The bike came with a 12-23, and as I get fitter I'm considering swapping it back for a while and keeping the 12-27 for days in the mountains.

It all depends on how hilly your area is. I live in a very hilly area, where the hills are short but steep, 10% gradient is pretty common. The bike store in town (which is on the flat) keeps telling me that no-one needs a 25 cog Blah, Blah, Blah. They are obviously talking about flat rides. When I tell them where I ride, they just look blankly and think me and my mates are mad. Most of my riding group have a 23 cog but are thinking about getting a 25, a few have gone for a 25 already. The fastest guy in our group has a 29 cog. If you are new to cycling and the hills are relentless, get a 27 cog or go for a triple. If you want to race then a double is fine, because if you have to use a triple in a race, then you are about to get dropped.:D

CHEERS.

Mark

Just something to consider, most road bike riders who ride consistantly uses 53/39. So if you are considering riding more like most riders then you might look at a triple with 53/39/30 to maintain a similar ratio on main two chainring of the crank. If you are just going to ride casual and some touring then go for the 52/42/30, because then it would not be a big thing. I know that the only 53/39/30 is a Dura Ace which cost too much but you can get a FSA triple that will have this setup (About $150) that's what I use on one of my bikes. As for the cassette 12-27 is what I prefer, it's easier on the knees on tough hills.

My first road bike has a double but I wish it were a triple as I live in an extremely hilly area, I am getting stronger but I suspect it will be a long time before I can tackle any route without considering the hills! But if where you ride is reasonably flat low hills etc. go for the double,they do ride/shift nice.

i consider myself a pretty avid biker but i cant say that ive never had to use the granny... i do consider myself very improved from when i first started biking ... and have used the 39-25 (42-25, actually) very infrequently. however, there is always a time and a place when it comes in handy.....

my personal belief is that i would never get rid of the triple on my current bike, but if i were to buy a new bike, it would have a double

Thanks for all the responses.

Another question: Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears I have two options: Should I feel the bike is too advanced for me, I can either change the cassette to something higher like a 12-27 or 12-29, or I can change the crank from a double to a triple. It is possible to do either one, right? In other words, the bike isn't specifically set up by the manufacturer such that I could never change the crank from a double to a triple? If I wanted to modify it safely, I could, correct?

My area is a mix of flat and hilly road, but they are mostly short, steep hills. In a way, I'm kind of excited to get the double because I think it will give me something to work harder for -- something to strive for. However, I don't want to be overwhelmed because I can't make it up the hill. Apparently the bike is very light, so that should help a little.

Thanks for all the responses.

Another question: Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears I have two options: Should I feel the bike is too advanced for me, I can either change the cassette to something higher like a 12-27 or 12-29, or I can change the crank from a double to a triple. It is possible to do either one, right? In other words, the bike isn't specifically set up by the manufacturer such that I could never change the crank from a double to a triple? If I wanted to modify it safely, I could, correct?

My area is a mix of flat and hilly road, but they are mostly short, steep hills. In a way, I'm kind of excited to get the double because I think it will give me something to work harder for -- something to strive for. However, I don't want to be overwhelmed because I can't make it up the hill. Apparently the bike is very light, so that should help a little.

You can always change parts in your bike its just a question of $$$.
A new ultegra crankset is ~200$ just so you should know.
A year ago I was very much not in shape and started to train with my 21speed MTB.
It has a 22x32x44 crankset and a 14-28 cassette, so you can see that it has plenty of low gears
and I needed them all.(I live in a very hilly area).
Now I ride a road bike w/double chain rings but there's no way I could have climbed those hills then with this bike, not even if I had a 29t cog in the back.

My old road bike has a triple in the front and a 12-25 cassette in the rear. I've only used the granny gear a few times in the 5 years I've had it, so the small chainring is a waste.
My newer road bike has a double in the front and a 11-23 cassette in the rear. I've used all 18 gears at one time or another. If you look at my location you'll see that I live and ride in a very hilly area.
Keep the double (53-39) and go with the 12-25 cassette. You won't be overwhelmed and you'll be surprised how much you like it and how easy the hills will become after only a short time riding.
BTW: I'm 59 years old. :)


Since you're a newbie, here is a good website with lots of bike information.
http://sheldonbrown.com/glossary.html


Have fun with the bike and let us know how you like it.

yeah, you can replace the rear cassette easily and for cheap

Another question: Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears I have two options: Should I feel the bike is too advanced for me, I can either change the cassette to something higher like a 12-27 or 12-29, or I can change the crank from a double to a triple.

You can do either, although changing the cassette is the much cheaper route (around $40 if you do it yourself)

Give it a ride when you get it. Actually, give it a month or two of riding and see how you feel. Depending on how severe the hills are in your area, you might be fine with what you have. If you feel like you just wish you had a little more then switch to a 12-17. If you're really still feeling like you're not even close to being able to get up those hills you might think about switching to a triple. (around $130 if you do it yourself).

hello ds81,

i see you are very concerned about the gearing of your roadie.. That's good, but the question is, how steep are the hills you'll be riding on.
I am overweight, and can handle 20% grades w/ me 52/42 - 12/23. But I had to replace my rear w/ a 12-27 so I can spin more and save my knees.
I say, give it a try..

Well, here is a short explanation on bicycle gearing. There are basically 2 gears in use at any time: the front chain ring (yeah all chain rings are on the front but I used redundancy for clarity) and the rear cog. In your case, you had a choice of a bike with 2 chain rings a: 53 and a 39 or 3 chain rings: a 52, 42, and a 30. The bigger the front ring the bigger the gear, the smaller the front ring the smaller the gear.

In your case, there are 9 gears on the rear cluster. People talk about 12-25 which means the cogs go from a 12 for the smallest to a 25 for the largest probabably something like this: 12, 13, 14, 15, 17, 19, 21, 23, 25.

If you divide the rear cog you are using into the front ring you are using, you can get the number of revolutions of the rear wheel you will get for one pedal revolution. So if you are using a 53 chain ring with a 12 rear cog, the rear wheel will turn 4.417 times per pedal revolution. If you are using the 39 chain ring with the 25 rear cog, the rear wheel will turn 1.56 times per pedal revolution.

Gears combinations often were referred to in chain inches. This was taking the chain ring divided by the rear cog times 27 (rear wheel diameter in inches). A big gear is anything over 90 and a low gear is anything less then 40. The 53-12 is a 119 inch gear. The 39-25 is a 42 inch gear. Notice the triple chain ring set up gives you a 30-25 or a 32 inch gear which is considerably lower then the double chain ring set up. By the way, a 100 inch gear at 100 rpm will drive you at approx. 30 mph. If you know your cadence, you can easily use this to calculate your cruising speed in any gear once you know its chain inches.

So do you need a triple chain ring for your local hills? Well that depends on the hills, their steepness, their length, your strength and your riding style.

Here in central Florida, I can climb anything without any particular problem with a 53/39 and a 13-25 rear cluster. I use the 13 small cog because I run a high RPM and I have no use for a 12 tooth gear, I would never ever use the silly thing. I seldom use a 13. However, when I go to areas with really long, somewhat steep climbs like Colorado, I use a triple. I generally climb seated at a high rpm. I also run a higher rpm then most people so I favor lower gearing then many people. Gearing is a matter of personal style. People who like standing up and going uphill at a low cadence will favor a set up with higher gearing then people who favor sitting and spinning.

About 40 years ago, cyclists gave considerable attention to gearing because bikes back then had 10 total gearing combinations and you could not afford to have a nonfunctional combination if you could avoid it. Nowadays, having optimized gearing is not that important because with 18 combinations well who cares if there are some you will not use?

Ds81,

Take your current bike up hills that are in your area. Which gear do you use to get up the hills? If you need the small chainring and the lowest of your gears in the back (assuming you have a triple now), you will likely want to have a triple on your new bike. If you can make it up the hills in your middle ring, then you should be fine with a double.

I just made the change from a comfort bike to road bike myself, and I live in a hilly area. All of the hills that I needed my small chainring on the comfort bike, I still need the small chainring now (the road bike is much faster, but the amount of effort is the same).

At the risk of sounding like a hero......I like to have an 11 tooth cog with a 52 or 53
chain ring. If you're riding with a very strong wind, on a slight decline, and/or you're riding in a big bunch with a big tail wind, you can easily run of gears with a 12. I see guys all the time spinning and bouncing when the tempo gets above about 33, 34mph, and if it gets above 38mph, you're kinda screwed.

I know ds81 is just starting out, but it's nice to know the "big one" is down there :)

I see guys all the time spinning and bouncing when the tempo gets above about 33, 34mph, and if it gets above 38mph, you're kinda screwed.


:eek:

I've done 45 mph easily with a 52-13. If you're bouncing at 35 mph with a 53-12 you seriously need to either adjust your saddle height or work on your spinning.

:eek:

I've done 45 mph easily with a 52-13. If you're bouncing at 35 mph with a 53-12 you seriously need to either adjust your saddle height or work on your spinning.

Come on! Someone help me out here. 52 X 13?? Jeez!! That's a 108 inch gear, in the old. 45 mph is pretty fast for a 108' gear. That would give you a flying 200m time of ~9.94 seconds.....quite fast.

I can't be bothered working out the cadence required, but I'd say you'd be more likely to maintain the high speed if you were pedalling in the 'normal' cadence range.

Come on! Someone help me out here. 52 X 13?? Jeez!! That's a 108 inch gear, in the old. 45 mph is pretty fast for a 108' gear. That would give you a flying 200m time of ~9.94 seconds.....quite fast.

I can't be bothered working out the cadence required, but I'd say you'd be more likely to maintain the high speed if you were pedalling in the 'normal' cadence range.

I don't know. I got the F35 up to over 41 the other day on a downhill section. I was in the 53/12 and still had plenty of room to pedal faster. Never had the chance though ... the downhills in Illinois run out rather fast :(

Well i don't wanna clutch at straws, but 53/12 is much bigger than 52/13.

Maybe I'm just a big fat grinder.

Come on! Someone help me out here. 52 X 13?? Jeez!! That's a 108 inch gear, in the old. 45 mph is pretty fast for a 108' gear. That would give you a flying 200m time of ~9.94 seconds.....quite fast.

I can't be bothered working out the cadence required, but I'd say you'd be more likely to maintain the high speed if you were pedalling in the 'normal' cadence range.

It's about 140 rpm IIRC from my computer (although it's hard to look down at that speed).

Granted, it's not optimal. I'm just saying that you should be able to handle mid-thirties easily with those gears. Probably around 100 rpm.

It's about 140 rpm IIRC from my computer (although it's hard to look down at that speed).

Granted, it's not optimal. I'm just saying that you should be able to handle mid-thirties easily with those gears. Probably around 100 rpm.

Yeah, yeah; that's what i meant. ( :D )

What if you had to sustain the speed for 10 miles?

What if you had to sustain the speed for 10 miles?

Not to belabor this, but we were talking about riding downhill or with a tailwind.

"If you're riding with a very strong wind, on a slight decline, and/or you're riding in a big bunch with a big tail wind, you can easily run of gears with a 12."

Yeah, yeah; that's what i meant. ( :D )

What if you had to sustain the speed for 10 miles?
If you could physically sustain a high 30s/low 40s speed for 10 miles, you aren't a 'roadie newbie', and should probably consider racing at a high level. Either that, or you've found an awesome 10 mile descent. :)

53-12 is reasonably useless to me, too. I only ever use it on downhills, and even then I can hit the high 30s without a particularly high cadence.

If you could physically sustain a high 30s/low 40s speed for 10 miles, you aren't a 'roadie newbie', and should probably consider racing at a high level. Either that, or you've found an awesome 10 mile descent. :)


LOL

If you can maintain those speeds (MPH) for 10 miles on a flat road with no help from the wind, you're probably ready for the pro peloton.

Hell, you're ready to start training for the world hour record.

:eek: I've done 45 mph easily with a 52-13. If you're bouncing at 35 mph with a 53-12 you seriously need to either adjust your saddle height or work on your spinning.

Ok, i know we've/I've hijacked this guy's thread, but.........I'm such a loser, I just rolled out 52/13 to a distance of ~8.43 meters, giving me a cadence of ~143rpm for 45 mph -- not the kinda cadence I could
sustain for very long.

LOL

If you can maintain those speeds (MPH) for 10 miles on a flat road with no help from the wind, you're probably ready for the pro peloton.

Hell, you're ready to start training for the world hour record.

:mad: I said "down a slight decline with a strong wind, maybe in a big bunch too" ( ;) )

Ok, 53/12 gives me a cadence of about 117 for 40mph. That's obviously reasonable,
but I'd still like the extra gear to rest my @ss

(I've gotta get a life)

OK, back to the question. I see people all the time on here that can't understand why anyone would have a triple. Then, you see what part of the country they live in and understand their thinking. There is a BIG difference between hills and mountains.

If you in an area with mountains, I would highly reccomend the triple. If hills, the double will probably do.

Now the real question. Why can't your LBS get what you are asking for???????

OK, back to the question. I see people all the time on here that can't understand why anyone would have a triple. Then, you see what part of the country they live in and understand their thinking. There is a BIG difference between hills and mountains.

If you in an area with mountains, I would highly reccomend the triple. If hills, the double will probably do.

Now the real question. Why can't your LBS get what you are asking for???????

Well, my LBS did everything they could to find the bike I was looking for. Apparently, the guy I've been dealing with had his Trek agent confer with agents across the country to see if the bike was available. Also, he called up his Trek rep to see when it would be manufactured. The problem is they don't make many triples in my size, and they don't know if and/or when the next one will be made, especially since we're late in the production season. He was able to locate a double for me, but that is still being produced and won't be in until next week.

I will start with the triple. If I need to change, I can afford $200 for happiness; I've got tons of loans anyway. :)

I'm sure the LBS owner can do something.. he can swap your double to a triple...

I live in a country where a hill is not really a hill but a mountain.. the only flats are the coastal roads..

I'm sure the double will be ok. but if you are really that concerned, ask your LBS to do something about it..

I have a Campag road triple, 30/40/50. Im no racer, and have only used the top gear 50/12 for an extended period on one occasion, when I had a severe gale behind me. I havent found any hills where its safe to go that fast.
For a non-racer, its better to have extra low gears than extra high ones. Before taking advice on precise gear combinations to use, ask yourself, is the rider advisng you a lot stronger and are they riding hills that are easier.
Check out the gears you currently use, but note that on a racer, you will use slightly higher gears under the same conditions because the bike is more efficient and lighter.

The problem is they don't make many triples in my size, and they don't know if and/or when the next one will be made, especially since we're late in the production season.

That is not much of an excuse. They can get the bike in with a double and get a triple grouppo and just swap them out. It should be no big deal at all, and IMHO they should have offered to do it. If a bike shop can't figure out how to make a double bike into a triple, are you sure they are the right LBS for you? There is nothing different about the bike. It is just some bolt on parts. My LBS did it for $45. I just had to wait one extra day.

Are there ANY triples of the same groupset in the shop? If so, those parts are not welded on. :rolleyes:

That is not much of an excuse. They can get the bike in with a double and get a triple grouppo and just swap them out. It should be no big deal at all, and IMHO they should have offered to do it. If a bike shop can't figure out how to make a double bike into a triple, are you sure they are the right LBS for you? There is nothing different about the bike. It is just some bolt on parts. My LBS did it for $45. I just had to wait one extra day.

Are there ANY triples of the same groupset in the shop? If so, those parts are not welded on. :rolleyes:

In most cases you are talking changing out the BB, and the crankset. The LBS loses money on the crankset b/c they can't sell the "pull" at full price and they pay full for the triple. Not to mention Trek and Specialized are out of just about every bike they make right now, b/c they are gearing up for 2005 model productions. If you are willing to pay more they may do it but you shouldn't expect them to basically eat the cost of a crankset which eradicates the pathetically small profit margin on the bike.

Hey all,

Originally, I had wanted the "granny gear" (as I understand it's called) because I'm a little nervous to start climing hills without being in great shape (read decent shape). However, the gentleman at the bike store said that even with the 53/39 things shouldn't be a problem for me. What do y'all think?


You're spending a LOT of money and should be getting exactly what you want.



For someone in decent shape, will the difference be significant?
As a 145 pound climber doing 20+ mile lunch hour (emphasis on hour) rides with the masters racers across the street in the Boulder, CO foot hills I found a 30x21 high gear (like 39x27) plenty.

As a 190 pound fattie in less shape I wouldn't think it was enough in the same terrain. OTOH, at sea level with .3% grades except for highway overpasses it's plenty.



Also, this bike has a cassette that is listed as Shimano Ultegra 12-25, 9 speed. What does the 12-25 mean? Does this 9 speed mean there are 9 different "rings" by the rear tire?


9 cogs. 12 small. 25 large. 12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-25.



So, my bike could be said to be an 18 speed? Had I been able to get the 52/42/30, would the bike be a 27 speed?
Sure, but that's a meaningless over-simplification.

Epic dredge :twitchy:

Whoa.

6 year old zombie thread locked.