Bicycle Mechanics - cranksets, derailleur and shifter questions

howdy...
I'm planning to build a "cross bike". here's my set-up:

17" mountain frame - maybe one of those "leader" frames in ebay
crosscycle carbon or rigid fork
bontrager select wheelset
shimano 105 crankset, cassette, front and rear derailleur
shimano ultegra BB
shimano lx brake/shifter combo
shimano lx v-brake
stem, seatpost, flatbar,etc

now my questions:
Q1: can i install road parts in a mountain frame i.e. Crankset and BB?
Q2: i'm bet. 5"9' & 5"10' and i'm not sure how long the crankset should I get. 170mm, 172.5mm or 175mm
Q3: can i use the lx brake/shifter combo with the 105 front and rear derailleur?

i'm fairly new to this and any help would be greatly appreciated. Tnx!

I'm not sure you realize that a cross fork is going to be for 700c wheels, right? Cross bikes are typically a 700c wheel with a 30-40c tyre.

V-brakes on a frame designed for 26" wheels but running 700c means the pads won't align with the rim. Every 26" frame I have used though clears 700c wheels n/p, but the brakes are going to be the issue.

Three options:
Get an actual cross/touring frame w/ brake posts
Run discs
Run Paul's Motolite v-brakes.... they allow enough adjustment to compensate for the larger diameter wheel

Also if you plan to race cross, I think flatbars and discs are illegal as of now.

howdy...
I'm planning to build a "cross bike". here's my set-up:

17" mountain frame - maybe one of those "leader" frames in ebay
crosscycle carbon or rigid fork
bontrager select wheelset
shimano 105 crankset, cassette, front and rear derailleur
shimano ultegra BB
shimano lx brake/shifter combo
shimano lx v-brake
stem, seatpost, flatbar,etc

now my questions:
Q1: can i install road parts in a mountain frame i.e. Crankset and BB?
Q2: i'm bet. 5"9' & 5"10' and i'm not sure how long the crankset should I get. 170mm, 172.5mm or 175mm
Q3: can i use the lx brake/shifter combo with the 105 front and rear derailleur?

i'm fairly new to this and any help would be greatly appreciated. Tnx!

You will hve to get a bottom bracket with the correct spline for your crank. Fortunately, they do exist in the 73mm shell width. You might have interference between the bigger chainrings and the chainstays. If that's the case, you might try an XTR bottom bracket. They have the right spline and they come in 112.5 and 116 spindle lengths.
Shimano says not to mix road and mountain parts, but I've had good results using Rapid Fire shifters with road cranksets and front derailleurs. Many tandems come stock from the factory that way.
The crank length is a puzzler. I'm pretty sure that with the mountain bike frame you will have ground clearance for 175 cranks, but, if you are planning to race cycle cross, I think that I'd use 172.5 to keep my cadence up a bit better.

I'm actually planning to copy one of the Marin's ALP's bikes. http://marinbikes.com/html/spec_04_highwayone.html

I'll be using the bike mostly for recreational and city rides since NYC is all urban riding. :) But I really, greatly, appreciate all your input!

Thanks!

You didn't mention with Bontrager Select wheelset you're considering, road or MTB. Road wheels have 130mm spacing so installing on an Aluminum mountain frame with 135mm spacing is not recommended. You can't "cold set" (i.e. bend) an Aluminum frame like you can steel.

I'm actually planning to copy one of the Marin's ALP's bikes. http://marinbikes.com/html/spec_04_highwayone.html

I'll be using the bike mostly for recreational and city rides since NYC is all urban riding. :) But I really, greatly, appreciate all your input!

Thanks!

So are you running 26" tyres or 700c?

I'll be running on 700c wheelsets. Blastradius said that it may not work since the frame spacing on a mountain frame is wider (If I understand it correctly). Another alternative I have is buying a cyclocross frame and just install a flat bar and rapid shifters. Thanks again!

I'll be running on 700c wheelsets. Blastradius said that it may not work since the frame spacing on a mountain frame is wider (If I understand it correctly). Another alternative I have is buying a cyclocross frame and just install a flat bar and rapid shifters. Thanks again!

Actually, adapting a 130mm wheel to fit a 135mm frame would be EZ. Just install a 135mm axle set and redish the spokes. Getting the brakes to work is another matter entirely. If it was my bike, I think that I'd trial fit a 700c wheel and make sure that I could get the brakes to align before I spend the first dime on this conversion.

Wow. This is more complicated than I thought. What does "redish" mean btw? I'm really new to this whole bike language and I want to learn. Thanks again!

I'll be running on 700c wheelsets. Blastradius said that it may not work since the frame spacing on a mountain frame is wider (If I understand it correctly). Another alternative I have is buying a cyclocross frame and just install a flat bar and rapid shifters. Thanks again!

Spacing isn't much of an issue... as I said before... the issue is the BRAKES WILL NOT ALIGN WITH THE RIMS... if you have deep pockets disc brakes or Paul's motolite v-brakes will solve the problem.

Cyclocross frames, like Marin uses, were designed for 700c wheels... mountainbike frames were not... a 700c wheel is in essence a 29" wheel FYI.

redish means to re align the wheel around the hub. if you don't have a truing stand and a dish guage i'd recommend having a shop do it for you. It's not hard but can be a little bit of a headache when things don't work out.

Let me put it to you this way:

1. You can almost never change just one part on a bicycle. Everything is designed to work together so, when you change any one part, you have to change something else and often in turn yet something else in order to make it all work. You're talking about making several major changes all at once. I can't predict what all might become necessary for you to make it all work, and I've got an extensive history of cobbling on bicycles.

2. Then there's the cost thing. As a general rule, the cheapest way to buy bicycle components is when they are bolted onto a frame. If you go through with this, you are going to have a high dollar bike when you get done.

3. Finally, what will you have accomplished? My bet is that for the money you will have invested in this thing, you would have been able to buy a brand new bicycle that was designed for the kind of riding you are envisioning. It'll work better too because every single part on the bike will be brand new and will have been designed to work with every other part.

I wouldn't do it.

It hit my head actually that buying a new bike is better than building if from scratch. I just like tinkering and building things...like my pc. I also calculated the parts that i'm going to get and it will all come down the same price.

It's a good thing I asked you guys before I bought all the parts. If you don't get tired of hearing "Thank you" then...THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HELP!

Spacing isn't much of an issue... as I said before... the issue is the BRAKES WILL NOT ALIGN WITH THE RIMS... if you have deep pockets disc brakes or Paul's motolite v-brakes will solve the problem.

Cyclocross frames, like Marin uses, were designed for 700c wheels... mountainbike frames were not... a 700c wheel is in essence a 29" wheel FYI.

Hey! thanks for the info on the 700c = 29er. I thought 700c wheels are always the same size as 26". That's a very good thing to know. Thanks a lot!

Let me put it to you this way:

1. You can almost never change just one part on a bicycle. Everything is designed to work together so, when you change any one part, you have to change something else and often in turn yet something else in order to make it all work. You're talking about making several major changes all at once. I can't predict what all might become necessary for you to make it all work, and I've got an extensive history of cobbling on bicycles.

2. Then there's the cost thing. As a general rule, the cheapest way to buy bicycle components is when they are bolted onto a frame. If you go through with this, you are going to have a high dollar bike when you get done.

3. Finally, what will you have accomplished? My bet is that for the money you will have invested in this thing, you would have been able to buy a brand new bicycle that was designed for the kind of riding you are envisioning. It'll work better too because every single part on the bike will be brand new and will have been designed to work with every other part.

I wouldn't do it.

Bummer, guess my $350 steel Ritchey xc\bmx whatever has been a waste of the last 8 months.
Geez, all those things I learned, and NON-Shimano custom HQ parts I purchased are a waste too.

Guess I'll buy a normal bike next time. I guess I can trust who-ever to outfit my ride- seeing they know nothing of my abilities or needs. And they will put the BEST quality parts avalable..'cause they are a COMPANY and can be trusted.

I mock. 'cause I care.

Bummer, guess my $350 steel Ritchey xc\bmx whatever has been a waste of the last 8 months.
Geez, all those things I learned, and NON-Shimano custom HQ parts I purchased are a waste too.

Guess I'll buy a normal bike next time. I guess I can trust who-ever to outfit my ride- seeing they know nothing of my abilities or needs. And they will put the BEST quality parts avalable..'cause they are a COMPANY and can be trusted.

I mock. 'cause I care.

Heh, heh, heh.

I love it when guys who have built one bike disagree with me.

Let me put it to you this way:

1. You can almost never change just one part on a bicycle. Everything is designed to work together so, when you change any one part, you have to change something else and often in turn yet something else in order to make it all work. You're talking about making several major changes all at once. I can't predict what all might become necessary for you to make it all work, and I've got an extensive history of cobbling on bicycles.

2. Then there's the cost thing. As a general rule, the cheapest way to buy bicycle components is when they are bolted onto a frame. If you go through with this, you are going to have a high dollar bike when you get done.

3. Finally, what will you have accomplished? My bet is that for the money you will have invested in this thing, you would have been able to buy a brand new bicycle that was designed for the kind of riding you are envisioning. It'll work better too because every single part on the bike will be brand new and will have been designed to work with every other part.

I wouldn't do it.

This is all exactly right whether you agree with it or not, Jeff. The guy is looking for a hybrid to be identical to a prebuilt Marin, not some bastard BMX frankenbike.

Maybe he WANTS to build it himself..

Quote "now my questions:
Q1: can i install road parts in a mountain frame i.e. Crankset and BB?
Q2: i'm bet. 5"9' & 5"10' and i'm not sure how long the crankset should I get. 170mm, 172.5mm or 175mm
Q3: can i use the lx brake/shifter combo with the 105 front and rear derailleur?

i'm fairly new to this and any help would be greatly appreciated. Tnx!
[Report] [reply

I didn't notice a "Should I attemt to build a bike" question.
Yes my bike is a hybrid, you have no clue what I ride so drop it.

I am learning about bike mechanics BECAUSE I'm building them.
I built my first jump bike in 1978.
I have stripped and rebuilt a Trek,2-Nishiki,Ritchey and now I'm starting a DH bike with my Diamondback frameworks.

My 7speed 19 lbs Ritchey X-bike is THE CAKE.
Why? because I built it right for the way I want it to ride.

If Monbert wants to assemble his bike himself-power to him.
I'll offer what meager advice I can.

I WAS going to start a thread "Why whould you buy an assembled bike when you remove most parts anyway"

My next frameworks that I'm purchasing-Ritchey NiTi will not be assembled, Ritchey does not sell assembled bikes..SOOOOOOOoooooo I'm collecting all the goodies I want on it, putting them on the old R-frameworks and learning the entire assembly process.
I will then re-assemble the Old-R-frameworks with original components, give it to my daughter and have 2 Ritcheys for under $2000.

Guess I'm a idiot.

Thought some more..spring 77 I customed my first Mustang into a X bike -bmx did not exist so we built what we needed.
Oh, my bikes are not cobbled together basement junk- parts reserched, purchased and tested, little tweaks "till it works to my specs.

Have a sweet day, I'm going for a bike ride, may I suggest the same.

So what advice have you provided for this fellow, Jeff? Other than a couple of long posts to show us all what a smart and wonderful bicycle mechanic you are I don't see anything at all. Worse, it looks to me like you're egging him onto an ill-fated project so you're worse than no help at all.

I fully understand the concept of wanting to do it yourself. The fact is, however, that he is considering a project that has any number of serious potential downfalls and he doesn't have enough background knowledge yet to understand what wheel dish is. I've been trying to help him to understand what he doesn't know. My advice to him would be to learn some basics first before he tries to reinvent the bicycle.

So what advice have you provided for this fellow, Jeff? Other than a couple of long posts to show us all what a smart and wonderful bicycle mechanic you are I don't see anything at all. Worse, it looks to me like you're egging him onto an ill-fated project so you're worse than no help at all.

I fully understand the concept of wanting to do it yourself. The fact is, however, that he is considering a project that has any number of serious potential downfalls and he doesn't have enough background knowledge yet to understand what wheel dish is. I've been trying to help him to understand what he doesn't know. My advice to him would be to learn some basics first before he tries to reinvent the bicycle.

And yes TOTALy good advice as yes it is work.More money...some of the folks do not work @ an LBS and this is a better hobby than model planes or T.V.
I have not dished a wheel, X-year ago never heard. In 2 I'll be doing it. Thanks to ENCOURAGEMENT from my peers.

So what advice have you provided for this fellow, Jeff? Other than a couple of long posts to show us all what a smart and wonderful bicycle mechanic you are I don't see anything at all. Worse, it looks to me like you're egging him onto an ill-fated project so you're worse than no help at all.

I fully understand the concept of wanting to do it yourself. The fact is, however, that he is considering a project that has any number of serious potential downfalls and he doesn't have enough background knowledge yet to understand what wheel dish is. I've been trying to help him to understand what he doesn't know. My advice to him would be to learn some basics first before he tries to reinvent the bicycle.

Well said... he also didn't understand there was a difference between 700c and 26" wheels, either. So I can safely say this would be a very frustrating project for anyone of that knowledge level. As a professional mechanic the task seems a bit daunting, getting all these misc. parts to work right.

My point was, he said he wants to build a bike exactly like the Marin Hybrid he had linked to. For the same price as this build he can just buy the Marin which is what he wants anyways, and save the frustration and the potentially incompatible parts.

Seely-Retro..you sound like old B*****S-on the other side of the room diss'n some girls dress.
Bite the wire- Offer constructive words to the original poster or I don't care..hugs and kisses- slugs and hisses.


Bye.

Seely-Retro..you sound like old B*****S-on the other side of the room diss'n some girls dress.
Bite the wire- Offer constructive words to the original poster or I don't care..hugs and kisses- slugs and hisses.


Bye.


You've been so constructive Jeff! :rolleyes:

Maybe you missed my constructive posts where I explained what it takes to make a 700c wheel work on a MTB frame? Or where retro explained redishing and why its necessary? Or where he also explained how to choose a bottom bracket/crankset? I think you also missed where Monbert thanked us for the info, and realized that after pricing the parts individually, the bike would be more expensive than the Marin he is cloning, and fill the same purpose.

I hate to say it, but you are the only one coming off as an immature a$$ on this thread... seeing as you're the only one thats resorted to name calling.

Sorry Jeff but I do agree with Seely and Retro. I know this might not work your way but that's why there's bikeforums so that newb(s) (like me) would go ask someone who knows the mechanics and has been in the bicycling business for years now. I know encouragement is the key here (and I agree with you that buying parts is the way to go 'coz you get what you want), Jeff, but would it be more frustrating for me to find out that some road parts won't fit & match some mountain parts and all the money that I spent goes all to waste. As always, your inputs are greatly appreciated!

Seely and Retro grouch I apologize to you both, you have pm of the same.

Also re-reading I had missed some points and threw the hole thing off.
Never got to make some points, mostly got upset about 'shop talk'.

I figured the poster had researched the frame to emulate the production bike, not adapt a bike for larger wheels.
I think that would radically alter the turning capabilities of the bike-regardless of the brake problem. No.

Also nasty retrofitting like brake-bosses are probably best on steel frames.

Another thing I wished to point out and said something ELSE instead, was if you intend to emulate a frame design\feel etc- Start with the correct frame. In this case the correct type of frame. A Marin, as close to the production build, unassembled.
OR a clone design. Check all the frame specs (Big pdf files full of Latin).

The lbs work I would suggest a novice not to do is-
Install the headset.
Install the bb.
Install the cranks.
Any custom wheel work.

Deraillers? Kinda touchy-front one-DON'T CRUSH THE TUBE! Rear one, you can put in at least, do all the cables and if you can't sync- let the pro's.

So there's still a lot of fun to be had, choices to be made, good winter project.
Sorry yours will not be built, try again.

My legit interest in xc builds is about the road drive vs mtb and the crank position on spindle 2ring spyder vs 3.

I noticed the water bottle I bought that day was a specialized "Lil bigmouth" when I threw the receipt in the pile, I may change my user name to that.

Bad time of life, no need to subject you to my harshness-.
Again, an apology.
Jef.

Jeff, you've earned my respect.

Guys,

Just wanted you all to know that I finally decided to get a complete cross bike and got a good deal at ebay. It's a 2003 Marin Bear Valley ALP. Cant wait to test and ride it! Thanks again for the inputs!

Mb