Foo - A question about wealth

I realize everyone is different but...

An acquaintance of mine is a partner at a financial consulting firm. I'm told he has a base salary of $250,000 a year plus bonuses and commission. He does pretty well.

His girlfriend and him are going on vacation and there was a place they were interested in going to that he said was too expensive. At $700 a night, i can't disagree. But, curious, i did the math. Lets safely assume that he does pull in $250,000 a year (even after taxes, given his bonuses/commissions I'm sure his bank account sees about that much).

If you divide that by 52 weeks in a year and 5 days in a week, it comes out to about $900 a day he's making. That is more than a night in the hotel he was interested in. And i got to thinking about what i make, and after taxes it's a little more than $100 a day and i asked myself if i would spend about that on a hotel room for a night (that's about as cheap as they get in many places). I'm sure, given a special occasion, that i would.

So, I'm curious of the mindset of those who make more money. At the end of the day is $700 still $700 or do you begin to view the $700 as being different as you make more?

It's different.
Making 25k after making 12k is different from making 50k after making 25k or 75-100k after making 50k
I tend to look at bigger long term goals and how i'm getting there.

I agree with the above. It really depends on where you started and where you're moving up to. Going from $50K to $150K will carry a different mindset than someone going from $150K to $300 or $400K+. (I would like to believe that a general five-person family would be completely covered if they net more than $400K/year.)

I think that everyone is different, though. Some people make choices that are more holistic with everything else, while others just spend their money without a thought.

Value vs. worth
Just because the room is valued at $700 doesn't mean it is worth seven times the $100 dollar a night room.

Value vs. worth
Just because the room is valued at $700 doesn't mean it is worth seven times the $100 dollar a night room.

ditto.

So, I'm curious of the mindset of those who make more money. At the end of the day is $700 still $700 or do you begin to view the $700 as being different as you make more?
I've often seen the exact opposite view.

Several customers have come into the shop, obviously wealthy by the vehicle parked out front, yet they feel more entitled to a discount than the working stiffs and are huge cheapskates. One customer demanded a 20% discount on new bikes for him and his wife (often all the margin we'd make). Later I found out...he's a doctor.

At the end of the day is $700 still $700 or do you begin to view the $700 as being different as you make more?

As others have already stated, it's about value.

Wealth comes from spending less than you earn, so if someone simply increases their spending to match their earnings they can still find themselves living from paycheck to paycheck.

$700/night rooms are not targeted towards the $250k wage earners, anymore than $100,000 cars are. It's all relative.

However, all of that said, some of the wealthiest people in the world got that way by being frugal and remain that way. Read the Millionaire Next Door... Here's a sampling

http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/s/stanley-millionaire.html

$700 a night?? For a hotel room? My mortgage is that much per month.

When I'm traveling, I'm not going to spend a bunch of money to rent a room for a few hours. Of course, traveling for me means road trips a couple of times a year from Tulsa OK to Lebanon TN (E of Nashville) for child visitation of my step kids who live just outside of Jacksonville NC.

I've often seen the exact opposite view.

Several customers have come into the shop, obviously wealthy by the vehicle parked out front, yet they feel more entitled to a discount than the working stiffs and are huge cheapskates. One customer demanded a 20% discount on new bikes for him and his wife (often all the margin we'd make). Later I found out...he's a doctor.

Again, people who have worked hard to acquire wealth have a different appreciation for the value of money and will always look for opportunities to maximize value in each and every transaction.

They ask for discounts because they've learned that discounts are available, but often times for only those who ask. So, asking for a discount and negotiating becomes a normal part of every transaction. Just because someone has acquired more wealth than someone else doesn't make any commodity, product or service worth more.

Of course, since this is a cycling forum, want to bet how many professional cyclists have probably over-payed for their exotic sports cars and other luxury items, but who still expect to get a 'pro-deal' discount or free cycling equipment when they buy bicycle stuff?

Bottom Line: It's all about value, not the net worth of the customer.

As others have already stated, it's about value.

Wealth comes from spending less than you earn, so if someone simply increases their spending to match their earnings they can still find themselves living from paycheck to paycheck.

$700/night rooms are not targeted towards the $250k wage earners, anymore than $100,000 cars are. It's all relative.

However, all of that said, some of the wealthiest people in the world got that way by being frugal and remain that way. Read the Millionaire Next Door... Here's a sampling

http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/s/stanley-millionaire.html

*raises hand*

I had to learn the hard way. But now finding that being frugal isn't too hard, especially since the family no longer watches TV, and I leave the kids at home when I go shopping for groceries.

I've often seen the exact opposite view.

Several customers have come into the shop, obviously wealthy by the vehicle parked out front, yet they feel more entitled to a discount than the working stiffs and are huge cheapskates. One customer demanded a 20% discount on new bikes for him and his wife (often all the margin we'd make). Later I found out...he's a doctor.

A vehicle is NOT an accurate demonstrator of wealth.

I could have saved up forever and got that SLK320 that I've always wanted. Doesn't mean that I'm still a "poor" college student.

A vehicle is NOT an accurate demonstrator of wealth.

I could have saved up forever and got that SLK320 that I've always wanted. Doesn't mean that I'm still a "poor" college student.

True that. I've known people who spent way more on their cars than their housing. Some of those dwellings should have been condemned...

When I'm on vacation, unless the weather is totally screwed up, I spend practically no time at all, except for sleeping, in a hotel room. Therefore I prefer less expensive lodging.

A vehicle is NOT an accurate demonstrator of wealth.

I could have saved up forever and got that SLK320 that I've always wanted. Doesn't mean that I'm still a "poor" college student.

If you can afford college...you're not poor in any sense of the word. I've also never heard of a poor doctor.

My point is that even if you are wealthy, supporting local businesses rather than trying to gouge them may actually create goodwill that will aid you far more than the one time transactional savings.

I've often seen the exact opposite view.

Several customers have come into the shop, [/b]obviously wealthy by the vehicle parked out front[/b], yet they feel more entitled to a discount than the working stiffs and are huge cheapskates. One customer demanded a 20% discount on new bikes for him and his wife (often all the margin we'd make). Later I found out...he's a doctor.

Sorry, word but that may be one of the dumbest, narrowminded and short sighted things anyone has said on BF (and that's saying a lot!). You can't tell someone's wealth by the car they drive. Hell, that's why we're in the mess we're in! Want a car? Want an expensive car? Only make 25K a year? No problem, we'll finance it out to 84 months, get you a payment you can handle (even if you can't AFFORD it) and you can drive the car that makes people think you're wealthy/cool/whatever image you want to project.

And are you sure they feel more ENTITLED to a discount or are just bargaining hard so they can, once again, buy more than they can afford? Or maybe they do feel entitled since everyone else has given them the discounts necessary to get into the higher end stuff.

Doctors demanding discounts? Hmm... well, have you ever seen an insurance benefits claim for a medical visit? I think my $10,000 emergency appendix rupture was reduced to something like $2500 or $3000 all said and done. How's that for a discount??

Sure, doctors make more than most of us, even when you talk net (after malpractice insurance), but that doesn't mean they don't do research and negotiate hard, too.

As for the OP, the family making $250K may have higher overall day to day expenses (normal ones like mortgage, car payments) leaving their "play" budget limited just like yours and mine. $700 for a night in a hotel is pretty steep if it's just a place to sleep by anyone's standard!

*raises hand*

I had to learn the hard way. But now finding that being frugal isn't too hard, especially since the family no longer watches TV, and I leave the kids at home when I go shopping for groceries.

Oh yeah. In the past I've been good with saving money. This last year, I just let it all go and now I'm paying the price.

My point is that even if you are wealthy, supporting local businesses rather than trying to gouge them may actually create goodwill that will aid you far more than the one time transactional savings.

It's a game.
What's better than having a higher zoot bike than the neighbor?
Paying less than he did for one just like his.

It's a game.
What's better than having a higher zoot bike than the neighbor?
Paying less than he did for one just like his.

At whose expense?

As much as the bicycle industry has fought against it, bicycles are not a necessity unless used as a primary source of transportation. The fact that someone can drive a car, any car, to the store indicates enough means to purchase a bicycle, given the broad range of pricepoints. The fact that they are considering a non-essential recreational expense also indicates means.

Regarding the entitlement...yeah, I get less argument over prices from the folks that can barely afford the most basic bike. Whether this means that someone just getting by appreciates more that we are in a business to feed our families that sets wages at the bare minimum needed to survive versus someone with obvious means (only illustrated by an expensive car, not defined by it. Geez people) that one might think would appreciate needing to make a certain margin more...who's to say?

I will ask this question though: Do you think the doctor would offer a 20% discount on his services in exchange for the same discount on the bikes?

At whose expense?People are incredibly short-sighted and small-picture, as is evidenced by the state of the economy.

They aren't thinking as far as, "Would it be detrimental to this business for them to comply with my wishes for a discounted price," or even, "They can afford to give me a discount, they'll make up the difference with all the people who pay full price." The extent is "This is expensive, I want to pay less."

It's a good example of Hanlon's Razor, unfortunately.

I bet if you did ask the doctor to reciprocate the 20% discount, he would be taken aback at your suggestion, but it would get your point across nicely.

Each region is different also. Los Alamos is a science town, supported almost entirely by DOE and other government branches. Just based off reports last year, the town has the highest (per capita) number of not only PHD degrees, but millionaires. Yet every day I drive around here, I see WAY more 10 year old Subarus floating around than luxury cars. By contrast, when I go home for the holidays in west texas, I see way more top dollar SUVs than subarus. There seems to be two polarities: live beyond your means or be a tightwad. Not sure what that's about, but it's interesting to observe.

And there's no way I'd pay $700 bucks a night for some fancy hotel.

People are incredibly short-sighted and small-picture, as is evidenced by the state of the economy.

They aren't thinking as far as, "Would it be detrimental to this business for them to comply with my wishes for a discounted price," or even, "They can afford to give me a discount, they'll make up the difference with all the people who pay full price." The extent is "This is expensive, I want to pay less."

It's a good example of Hanlon's Razor, unfortunately.

I bet if you did ask the doctor to reciprocate the 20% discount, he would be taken aback at your suggestion, but it would get your point across nicely.

Thanks for the confirmation that you understand. I'm not asking anyone to agree, just making a point.


One more story that might illustrate my point: When my Mom was still in CA, she worked for the county building department. While at lunch one day she overheard a conversation between two women that were both building lavish homes. The first woman was having trouble deciding between several subcontractor bids, trying to balance between price, quality of worksmanship and integrity of the contractor.

The second woman said, "Oh, you need to hire unlicensed contractors." When asked why, she responded, "Because unlicensed contractors can't sue when you don't pay them." (Which is true under CA law for any work performed over $500 value) She then brags in detail about how she strung her subcontractors along, never paying them, and how much money she saved. By law this woman was right, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if her cold heart was warmed one evening in a house fire.

A vehicle is NOT an accurate demonstrator of wealth.

I could have saved up forever and got that SLK320 that I've always wanted. Doesn't mean that I'm still a "poor" college student.

Yup, and I know of lawyers driving close to 20 year old Accords. My boyfriend takes crap at work for his BMW ($10k) from guys that have $30k trucks, kids, and they make less. :rolleyes: A vehicle is a very poor measure of wealth, unless you look at it as an inverse relationship. The people smart enough to not buy expensive vehicles are the ones that'll be keeping their money around for a while and have more to spend when the right opportunity presents itself.

Each region is different also. Los Alamos is a science town, supported almost entirely by DOE and other government branches. Just based off reports last year, the town has the highest (per capita) number of not only PHD degrees, but millionaires. Yet every day I drive around here, I see WAY more 10 year old Subarus floating around than luxury cars. By contrast, when I go home for the holidays in west texas, I see way more top dollar SUVs than subarus. There seems to be two polarities: live beyond your means or be a tightwad. Not sure what that's about, but it's interesting to observe.

And there's no way I'd pay $700 bucks a night for some fancy hotel.

Yup, lots of that at the university I am at. Much better to hold onto your money than work yourself to death trying to improve your cash flow. :thumb:

Well, I currently make more than most of my friends (most still study, I work as a visiting scientist...i.e. **** pay by most standards). Yet I still live off of less.
The reason seems to be that I always had to live of study loans and the odd job I could squeeze in between (I worked freelance, so I got paid very well, but irregularly). Not only that, at points I had to support my parents. In contrast, the majority of my friends had their way through college paid by their parents (I agree that saving money while your parents are paying your tuition and livelihood is a bit crude). Most of them even into their MSc's which is where they are now.

To me it seems this is a result of feeling the value of money. Not just knowing it, but feeling it in the sense of monthly payments to study loans, of having had to scrape by for some months becasue of some expensive repair to your laptop (or whatnot).

People tend to look down on you when you barter for something (like a bike) while you make (in their eyes) plenty of money. Well, what I oay for something is based on what I feel it is worth, not on what I can pay. If you feel that that discount is too much or that it is to the detriment of your shop, than you shouldn't give it.

The second woman said, "Oh, you need to hire unlicensed contractors." When asked why, she responded, "Because unlicensed contractors can't sue when you don't pay them." (Which is true under CA law for any work performed over $500 value) She then brags in detail about how she strung her subcontractors along, never paying them, and how much money she saved. By law this woman was right, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if her cold heart was warmed one evening in a house fire.Of course, I'm not discounting the fact that there are a lot of people out there who are just colossal assbags. :)

The second woman said, "Oh, you need to hire unlicensed contractors." When asked why, she responded, "Because unlicensed contractors can't sue when you don't pay them." (Which is true under CA law for any work performed over $500 value) She then brags in detail about how she strung her subcontractors along, never paying them, and how much money she saved. By law this woman was right, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if her cold heart was warmed one evening in a house fire.

That is very, very different from asking for a discount. This is, from a moral point of view, stealing. Even if it is legalized by some law loophole (probably to discourage unlicensed workers).

If you feel that that discount is too much or that it is to the detriment of your shop, than you shouldn't give it.
I usually don't.

While I admire the sacrifices required by being a student, it does not behoove me to compensate for it out of my income.

Yup, and I know of lawyers driving close to 20 year old Accords. My boyfriend takes crap at work for his BMW ($10k) from guys that have $30k trucks, kids, and they make less. :rolleyes: A vehicle is a very poor measure of wealth, unless you look at it as an inverse relationship. The people smart enough to not buy expensive vehicles are the ones that'll be keeping their money around for a while and have more to spend when the right opportunity presents itself.

The extreme example of this was Sam Walton who was the richest person in the world at his time, and drove an old pickup truck.

Well, I currently make more than most of my friends (most still study, I work as a visiting scientist...i.e. **** pay by most standards). Yet I still live off of less.
The reason seems to be that I always had to live of study loans and the odd job I could squeeze in between (I worked freelance, so I got paid very well, but irregularly).

Yup. Try being a grad student and having medical expenses that are higher than your rent, then being too sick to get a part time job and having your funding cut. I'm glad it happened now instead of later, because it's convinced me that very few material things are worth the security of knowing that you have that money in the bank for a rainy day instead. One of my latest indulgences was spending about $60 on plastic containers to organize all my stuff. I'm normally not one to drop that much cash on anything, but it makes me happy and they should last a while, plus help me spend less because I have my stuff organized and don't end up buying things I already have because I can't find them.

I usually don't.

While I admire the sacrifices required by being a student, it does not behoove me to compensate for it out of my income.

And when you need a new lifesaving drug, we will not give you a discount either. :p

And when you need a new lifesaving drug, we will not give you a discount either. :p

Like you ever would before?

To be frank, I don't work at the shop any more. Attitudes like those of Timuz that retail prices should be based upon what he "feels" like paying and not on what a quality item costs to manufacture, plus a standard margin calculated to pay the bills, pay decent and livable employee wages and make a moderate living for the owner have made WalMart the giant it is today. I'm not trying to single you out Timuz, just trying to display a larger picture.

The extreme example of this was Sam Walton who was the richest person in the world at his time, and drove an old pickup truck.

That's my plan. :D The boyfriend and I might blow some cash on a ferrari, but a testa rossa is only about $40k and his favorite anyway. Right now all the boyfriend's vehicles (M3, lifted F250, and 3 motorcycles) have cost less than a brand new econo car. :thumb:

Like you ever would before?

I would have, until the world pissed in my cheerios and hardened me to their suffering. :p

It all depends on the person, I personally know multi millionaires that live the same lifestyle as I do, just because they have a bit of spare cash doesn't mean they want to waste it, its like why stay at a place thats going to cost you $700, $800, $900. $1500.00 a night when you can stay at a great 4 star place for a hell of a lot less? Hell, more than likely all your going to do is sleep there! :) and then I know a few of them that wouldn't dream of staying at a place thats less than $1000.00 a night just because they need to prove to everyone (and themselves) that they can. :rolleyes: So yeah, depends on the person.

As much as the bicycle industry has fought against it, bicycles are not a necessity unless used as a primary source of transportation. The fact that someone can drive a car, any car, to the store indicates enough means to purchase a bicycle, given the broad range of pricepoints. The fact that they are considering a non-essential recreational expense also indicates means.

To a degree. And means does not equate to wealth. I have the means to drive the vehicle I want and afford nice bikes, but I am not wealthy (in financial terms, at least) by any stretch. And I negotiate for the best prices whenever I can; if the shop is willing to sell to me at a price I am willing to pay, then we're all able to afford the deal. If I ask (or demand) for a discount that a shop is unable to support, I expect them to say no. It's not for me to say what kind of discount, if any, they can afford, any more than it is for a shop worker to determine what I can afford (my wealth) by the car I drive up in.

Regarding the entitlement...yeah, I get less argument over prices from the folks that can barely afford the most basic bike. Whether this means that someone just getting by appreciates more that we are in a business to feed our families that sets wages at the bare minimum needed to survive versus someone with obvious means (only illustrated by an expensive car, not defined by it. Geez people) that one might think would appreciate needing to make a certain margin more...who's to say?

Can't say I disagree about basic attitude like that. I've always been told, and have seen as far as I can tell without "profiling", the "less affluent" tend to tip better at bars and restaurants. But I've also seen some very generous people who have a lot of money, though they do expect value for their money. Is demanding appropriate service or value for what they're paying being cheap or having a sense of entitlement? Of course, what's appropriate is highly subjective and subject to interpretation and second guessing or soapboxing, so this is more of a rhetorical question than one that can be answered.

I will ask this question though: Do you think the doctor would offer a 20% discount on his services in exchange for the same discount on the bikes?

Maybe... Being in the military, I'm fortunate in that I have great health coverage. But I don't see why you couldn't approach your doctor and ask them to accept what the insurance company would pay on your behalf if you were covered. I've seen some news reports that say some doctors offices are doing just that. Maybe not quid pro quo for a bike, but just for service in general.


I guess the point is that you can't just assume things about people. I mean, if you're going to stereotype, do you think, for example, that a black person that drives up in a junker is going to rob you? Or that a blond that comes in is an easy mark to sell extra stuff to? Or any of the other negative stereotypes out there?

If they're demanding a discount and you're not willing, just tell them no... they'll shop elsewhere and you won't have to deal with them. Or, they'll buy at the price you're willing to sell for and that'll be that. It's how capitalism works, in general.

i guess the point is that you can't just assume things about people. I mean, if you're going to stereotype, do you think, for example, that a black person that drives up in a junker is going to rob you? Or that a blond that comes in is an easy mark to sell extra stuff to? Or any of the other negative stereotypes out there?

No, I do not make those assumptions, nor do I feel that wealth automatically entitles one to additional privilege. I take most everyone at face value until they prove different. My statements about those few customers were entirely to make the point that some folks do not look at wealth on a sliding scale as originally proposed in the op, but in fact many have a reverse-telescope perspective, losing sight of the principle of using wealth to the betterment of others. It was also entirely observational.

if they're demanding a discount and you're not willing, just tell them no... They'll shop elsewhere and you won't have to deal with them. Or, they'll buy at the price you're willing to sell for and that'll be that. It's how capitalism works, in general.

oh, i'm craftier than that. The usual approach is to increase the perceived value beyond actual value, then offer a sham discount to take advantage of their greed. This is also how capitalism works. ;)

:d

..losing sight of the principle of using wealth to the betterment of others...

Think about it from their perspective. The Dr. works 80 hours a week and had to endure undergrad, med school, residency, etc. Why should they easily hand over their hard earned cash to some schmuck that's too lazy to get a job that requires something beyond a middle school education?

Maybe you should be the one that goes through that **** so people think they can fleece you of your money just because you have it?

$700/night sounds ridiculous to me. (OK, we're not pulling in 250k in my household, but we're doing well enough for ourselves.)

I guess it's because I spent $200 on my tent, and when I go on vacation I can stay in my tent for as many nights as I want without spending another dime on housing.

Think about it from their perspective. The Dr. works less than 30 hours a week, otherwise it interferes with his golf handicap.
Fixed that for ya.


Why should they easily hand over their hard earned cash to some schmuck that's too lazy to get a job that requires something beyond a middle school education?
Schmucks are we now? Yeah, I guess degrees trump skills learned over a lifetime by hard application of labor any day. The blue collar workforce deserves to be taken advantage of...they're lazy.


Maybe you should be the one that goes through that **** so people think they can fleece you of your money just because you have it?
And you're saying no one is trying to fleece me of my hard earned money? Have you seen what doctors and lawyers charge? Just whom is doing the fleecing?

I do apologize Lauren for my sarcastic sense of humor. I may be coming off much harsher than I truly feel, but the sense of entitlement I mentioned earlier was certainly clarified by your statements.

The Dr. works 80 hours a week and had to endure undergrad, med school, residency, etc. Why should they easily hand over their hard earned cash to some schmuck that's too lazy to get a job that requires something beyond a middle school education?

When I made my last bike purchase, the guy took some measurements on me and then spent an hour fitting the bike to me. It was perfect, I haven't made any adjustments since. So I appreciate the value that a good LBS provides.

I had to wait for the fitting however, because he was taking a really long time fitting another customer. He said the top tube was too long for her, and that he already had the shortest stem on there. He said she would be better off with a WSD frame. She wanted the bike she picked because it was on sale. The same model with the WSD frame was not on sale, but also he didn't even have one in the shop, it would have to be ordered. If it were you, you probably would have thought he was trying to push a more expensive bike on you. I could tell he was willing to give up the sale because he felt it was the wrong bike for her. I was glad I went to that shop.

Each region is different also. Los Alamos is a science town, supported almost entirely by DOE and other government branches. Just based off reports last year, the town has the highest (per capita) number of not only PHD degrees, but millionaires. Yet every day I drive around here, I see WAY more 10 year old Subarus floating around than luxury cars.

That's because smart people know that Subarus rock! :thumb:



By contrast, when I go home for the holidays in west texas, I see way more top dollar SUVs than subarus. There seems to be two polarities: live beyond your means or be a tightwad. Not sure what that's about, but it's interesting to observe.

Hey buddy what are you trying to say, that having money but buying a Subaru makes you a tightwad? :mad: I believe the Subaru image means you are one of the following: you like versatile cars, you are a rally fan, or you're a lesbian. :p

Yup. Try being a grad student and having medical expenses that are higher than your rent, then being too sick to get a part time job and having your funding cut. I'm glad it happened now instead of later, because it's convinced me that very few material things are worth the security of knowing that you have that money in the bank for a rainy day instead. One of my latest indulgences was spending about $60 on plastic containers to organize all my stuff. I'm normally not one to drop that much cash on anything, but it makes me happy and they should last a while, plus help me spend less because I have my stuff organized and don't end up buying things I already have because I can't find them.

Um, would you mind if I cloned you?:love:

To the OP's question - making money doesn't necessarily make you immune to spending dough, especially if you did without to get there.

Sometimes its more a matter of priorities - what you're willing to throw money on vs not. For example, I took the family to the Carribean over the holidays - now we blew $ on busy season airfare, meals and sightseeing - but for the hotel it didn't make sense to me even though I could afford it. A bed is a bed (assuming it's clean).

Originally Posted by Wordbiker ..losing sight of the principle of using wealth to the betterment of others...

main principal behind the sickness of socialism.



Think about it from their perspective. The Dr. works 80 hours a week and had to endure undergrad, med school, residency, etc. Why should they easily hand over their hard earned cash to some schmuck that's too lazy to get a job that requires something beyond a middle school education?

Maybe you should be the one that goes through that **** so people think they can fleece you of your money just because you have it?

Socialism is a sickness, Lauren - always will be. Debate it on occasion when you feel the desire but remember that protecting yourself from sickness is always the best defense.

Liberty verses the Tyranny of Socialism (http://www.amazon.com/Liberty-versus-Tyranny-Socialism-Controversial/dp/0817949127)

Originally Posted by Wordbiker ..losing sight of the principle of using wealth to the betterment of others...

main principal behind the sickness of socialism.




Socialism is a sickness, Lauren - always will be. Debate it on occasion when you feel the desire but remember that protecting yourself from sickness is always the best defense.

Liberty verses the Tyranny of Socialism (http://www.amazon.com/Liberty-versus-Tyranny-Socialism-Controversial/dp/0817949127)

Well then, I guess Benjamin Franklin was a socialist. Go figure.

ok...I'll start out here admitting I did not read all the responses.

However, let's take the #'s in the OP and run with them. So...250K/yr to start with. Lets pay taxes on that. Since the guy has a gf, I'll assume he's single. That's going to put him in a pretty high tax rate bracket. 33% bracket. He's going to pay 33% of his income above $164,550 and then add $16,056.25 to that figure. So, to uncle sam, he's paying 44,253 in Federal income taxes. Let's assume 6% in state taxes...maybe higher or lower, there's another $15,000. So, this guy is paying out 60,000 in income taxes alone. So that 250,000 is only 190,000. That's 730/day. That's awfully close to that $700 hotel room. And most of those rooms have a hotel/visitors tax of 8% or higher added to them. So the real cost of that hotel room = 756/ night. So, that room is too expensive, based on the OP's simple daily cost analysis.

In addition, the guy in the OP probably has some financial goal he's trying to get to, and therefore, a 756/night hotel would interfere with obtaining that goal. One has to save money in order to build a nest egg.

people are different about money...

I have noticed certain trends though. Most people I know who grew up with more money than me were very tight-fisted about little stuff. Like not spending $1 on a bagel at a shop when they were walking all over the city with me because you could get one from a street cart for $.75, or looking to buy the cheapest possible postcards to send back home (I'm talking .04 ea, vs. .10 ea - hardly a bank-breaking deal.) Yet they thought nothing of dropping $500ish on the latest Prada shoes or whatever.

So that 250,000 is only 190,000.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y49/pspauld/tinyviolin.jpg

:P

Originally Posted by Wordbiker ..losing sight of the principle of using wealth to the betterment of others...

main principal behind the sickness of socialism.

I don't know exactly what he meant, but he didn't say government-mandated use of wealth to the betterment of others. Whenever you give to charity, or whenever you help out a fellow fooster, you are using your wealth to the betterment of others. More to the point, when you choose to use your wealth to support local businesses, you are helping your community. How many great old bookstores have closed in your area? I can think of many in the Bay Area.

Think about it from their perspective. The Dr. works 80 hours a week and had to endure undergrad, med school, residency, etc. Why should they easily hand over their hard earned cash to some schmuck that's too lazy to get a job that requires something beyond a middle school education?

Maybe you should be the one that goes through that **** so people think they can fleece you of your money just because you have it?

The Dr. choose to, he or she didn't have to. I hope this is an offhand comment and that you don't think of everyone without advance degree as a schmuck.