"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - Guts

From Lago Vista today - my pics:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v713/ravenmore/Bike%20Stuff/Lago%203-1-09/crash.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v713/ravenmore/Bike%20Stuff/Lago%203-1-09/crash2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v713/ravenmore/Bike%20Stuff/Lago%203-1-09/crash3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v713/ravenmore/Bike%20Stuff/Lago%203-1-09/crash4.jpg

anyone else want to whine, b1tch, or moan?

(btw, that was at the finish)

I only want to wine b1tch and moan about the snow here. It looks nice there aside from the pavement.

nice pics :)

btw, I saw her after the race. her hand was seriously jacked up.

anyone else want to whine, b1tch, or moan?



Hey weren't you complaining about bruised butt this morning ;)

Hey weren't you complaining about bruised butt this morning ;)

piss off. I raced. Not well but at least I raced. ;)

My kinda woman...nicely done.

Way to hang in there baby. That is friggin tough.

Pretty much the same thing that happened to me two weeks ago. Did a front flip 50 yards from the finish and landed in the bushes on the side of the road. All my adrenaline addled brain could think of was getting up and crossing the line. It took a few minutes to realize I was dripping blood. :thumb:

Atta girl.

thats actually a really cool sequence to have. itd be cool to give em to her if you know how to contact her.

is that the same race where the infamous r-sys crash pics came from last year?

if so, what is it about that course that provokes so many crashes; or is this merely a case of too many crappy bike handlers in TX?

What in God's name is the dude on the right of the second-last picture wearing? Are those some sort of flood-pants?

is that the same race where the infamous r-sys crash pics came from last year?

if so, what is it about that course that provokes so many crashes; or is this merely a case of too many crappy bike handlers in TX?

No and yes. No this is a different race, the infamous R-sys race was Pace Bend a normally safe venue. Last year the finish was set up on a very scetchy area hence the crash fest.

Yes there are some very bad bike handlers here, especially in the lower cats. I know of several guys who race in the 4/5's that cannot ride with no hands. I'm amazed that brake pads aren't in short supply here due to the amount some guys use them just going in a straight line. Texas is a place where I think you should have to require 10 top 10's to go from 5 to 4.

Having said that the Masters races I've done here have been smooth, fast, and without the ubiquitous 'hold your line' and other such yelling. Just a bunch of über fast dudes racing their bikes.

No different race. This is the Primavera at Lago Vista. The R-Sys pics as EDR mentioned were from Pace Bend. Couple cool things about Sundays race:

-Women's fields were HUGE. Much bigger than I've ever seen here before by more than double.
-Jen McRae raced and won the p12 women's race.
-Several pro sports photogs running around, and lots of photographers in general. It was insane how much camera gear was there. Wouldn't be surprised if some of the pics didn't show up on Velonews or something.

I haven't raced anywhere else so I can't speak to how it compares to other places in terms of the number of squirrels. Doesn't seem to bad to me. I had 2 very safe smooth races in the 4's this weekend. Seems like we get a lot of Tri guys who are strong as hell but not good at riding in a peloton. I have 2 friends that fit that bill. One has gotten better the other is staying in the 4's even though he has the points to move up because he wants to gain experience first.

No different race. This is the Primavera at Lago Vista. The R-Sys pics as EDR mentioned were from Pace Bend. Couple cool things about Sundays race:

-Women's fields were HUGE. Much bigger than I've ever seen here before by more than double.
-Jen McRae raced and won the p12 women's race.
-Several pro sports photogs running around, and lots of photographers in general. It was insane how much camera gear was there. Wouldn't be surprised if some of the pics didn't show up on Velonews or something.

I haven't raced anywhere else so I can't speak to how it compares to other places in terms of the number of squirrels. Doesn't seem to bad to me. I had 2 very safe smooth races in the 4's this weekend. Seems like we get a lot of Tri guys who are strong as hell but not good at riding in a peloton. I have 2 friends that fit that bill. One has gotten better the other is staying in the 4's even though he has the points to move up because he wants to gain experience first.

judging from your pics, that's a wide and straight piece of pavement.

other than operator error, there is absolutely no reason why someone should go down on that kind of road.

I ended up being victimized by a downhill squirrel in the Sunday men's 4/5 race. Just before the 200m line (about where the women's crash pics above were taken actually), there's a bit of a downhill and I start to see some wobbles be a rider just ahead of me. He proceeded to more right across two riders' front wheels, causing the right-hand rider to go down hard - and directly in my path.

I managed to slow from 30mph to I think about 10mph in a few seconds, realized I was boxed to the left, and tried to hit the little bit of grass on the right side of the road. Thought I was going to clear the downed rider until his bike bounced right and took out my wheels. I landed pretty much on my helmet/forehead and my race was over.

That sucked, but as far as crashes go, not bad - bike was just fine, no rips in the kit, one scuff on my chin, and one cracked helmet. The worst part was knowing my wife was up the hill at the finish line and knowing she'd be freaking out when I didn't cross with the group on that lap and knowing the ambulance crew was heading down the hill...

judging from your pics, that's a wide and straight piece of pavement.

other than operator error, there is absolutely no reason why someone should go down on that kind of road.

oh, I'm sure this wreck was operator error. But in terms of racers overall I think its probably not too much worse than any other place.

case in point, Saturday had huge winds - like 30+ mph. the 4's peloton was bombing down a hill at roughly 50mph. At the bottom of the hill was a gully that was acting as a funnel for the wind. We went from no cross wind to getting hit with a 30mph crosswind in a flash - moved everyone sideways on the road a couple of feet. Lot of cussing, but no one so much as even bumped. I was impressed at the bike handling at that moment.

oh, I'm sure this wreck was operator error. But in terms of racers overall I think its probably not too much worse than any other place.

edr doesn't seem to agree.


No and yes. No this is a different race, the infamous R-sys race was Pace Bend a normally safe venue. Last year the finish was set up on a very scetchy area hence the crash fest.

Yes there are some very bad bike handlers here, especially in the lower cats. I know of several guys who race in the 4/5's that cannot ride with no hands. I'm amazed that brake pads aren't in short supply here due to the amount some guys use them just going in a straight line. Texas is a place where I think you should have to require 10 top 10's to go from 5 to 4.

Having said that the Masters races I've done here have been smooth, fast, and without the ubiquitous 'hold your line' and other such yelling. Just a bunch of über fast dudes racing their bikes.

Having said that the Masters races I've done here have been smooth, fast, and without the ubiquitous 'hold your line' and other such yelling. Just a bunch of über fast dudes racing their bikes.

I miss Masters. Why did I get younger all of a sudden?


judging from your pics, that's a wide and straight piece of pavement.

other than operator error, there is absolutely no reason why someone should go down on that kind of road.

True, Lago isn't technical. The thing about the final mile is that it's a series of 200m climbs and descents that have you at 50mph going down, and 22mph going up (at say 500W). They're heading for a climb that looks just like the hill behind them.

So, there was probably a little bit of panic at 40+ right there when someone needed to get to the front because the finish was 300m away. This gal hit the deck going fast. I'm surprised no mangling shows up in the pics, other than the glove and number.

Surely the famous exploding R-sys wheel incident can't be attributed to bad bike handling? Or is there more to that story than spontaneous equipment failure?

Surely the famous exploding R-sys wheel incident can't be attributed to bad bike handling? Or is there more to that story than spontaneous equipment failure?

Yeah, something has to touch the spokes of the wheel. That R-Sys was skewered, IIRC. Most wheels will just lose a spoke and stay together, where R-Sys spokes are like "run for your lives!"

I doubt that cat 3/4/5 bike handling in TX is very different from Cat 3/4/5 bike handling anywhere else. it's sloppy as shet everywhere, and with all the 3s who've upgraded from the 25 pack finishes rule, it's gotten worse. bad bike handling is my main motivation to get the last few points I need to upgrade to Cat 2 early this year, that way it wont even be an option to enter a Cat 3/4 demolitioin derby.

too bad the gal in the photo sequence took a spill, but just because she's crying, let's not overate her "guts" vs. that of anyone else who takes a spill and gets back on.

What in God's name is the dude on the right of the second-last picture wearing? Are those some sort of flood-pants?

buttafuoco pants?

but just because she's crying, let's not overate her "guts" vs. that of anyone else who takes a spill and gets back on.

Pain grimace. I was there right after (one of our gals went down also in that race) and I didn't see a single tear, despite two pretty bad facial cuts.

^thanks. I'm not trying to denigrate her efforts, just saying they aren't different from anyone elses who's in the same situation.

^thanks. I'm not trying to denigrate her efforts, just saying they aren't different from anyone elses who's in the same situation.

I saw here on the sidelines after the race with the paramedics tending to her. Her hand was seriously messed up. Looks like she might have broke it in a couple places. She wasn't crying, she was grimacing and grunting in pain.

edr doesn't seem to agree.

that's not unusual. ;)

He does have more race experience so I'll defer on this one. It just doesn't seem that bad to me.

edr doesn't seem to agree.

He does'nt agree with anyone, that's what makes him EDR

edr doesn't seem to agree.

He does'nt agree with anyone, that's what makes him EDR

apparently you weren't paying attention. he agreed with me.

Surely the famous exploding R-sys wheel incident can't be attributed to bad bike handling?

I not saying it was caused by bad handling, but it is possible.

Pop a wheelie, turn bars, land wheelie...

apparently you weren't paying attention. he agreed with me.

have you raced in Texas? being serious - just curious.

You seem to be in the right spot at the right time with that camera of yours. Another good race pic.

apparently you weren't paying attention. he agreed with me.

He just did'nt want to argue with you, it's called being agreeable. You might try it some day, it works!

I liked the photos ... I feel bad for the rider who crashed ... keep up the good shooting Ravenmore ... Driveway, March 12, I know someone who would appreciate pics :) :)

Thanks Doggus and bostongarden - the few weeks I've been shooting cycling have been challenging and fun. :) bostongarden, I'm sure I'll shoot the driveway some, when I'm not racing it. ;)

If I remember -- and as I get older, darn, I need to use this qualifier -- I'll bring my Canon 20d to shoot a bit when I'm not racing...

I only want to wine b1tch and moan about the snow here. I thought it was funny that places south of here got all the snow until the bitter cold and wind moved in on us.

apparently you weren't paying attention. he agreed with me.

Correct.

Look I know there are crashes in every region and in every cat. Levi crashed at the ToC in what looked like a pretty rookie move, so no one is immune to crashes. I will say that my racing in SoCal was a lot less nerve racking in much much larger fields.

Correct.

Look I know there are crashes in every region and in every cat. Levi crashed at the ToC in what looked like a pretty rookie move, so no one is immune to crashes. I will say that my racing in SoCal was a lot less nerve racking in much much larger fields.

I still don't think its all that bad here. Perhaps I'm just too ignorant to complain... ;)

have you raced in Texas? being serious - just curious.

nope.


He just did'nt want to argue with you


incorrect (http://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.php?p=8457589&postcount=39).


, it's called being agreeable. You might try it some day, it works!

read before posting. you might try it some day, it works! :thumb:

Correct.

Look I know there are crashes in every region and in every cat. Levi crashed at the ToC in what looked like a pretty rookie move, so no one is immune to crashes. I will say that my racing in SoCal was a lot less nerve racking in much much larger fields.

How big do they cap the fields out there?

How big do they cap the fields out there?

I was in crits with fields of over 100 riders. I can't remember a race I did that had less than 80. Most races out there are crits so we didn't have the luxury of being out on the open road. I did masters races and 4's races out there. The masters stuff was faster as smoother, as would be expected, however the difference wasn't as pronounced. We've seen quite a few crashes in our 4's races this year in smaller fields than what I used to in Cali. Why that is I can't say for sure, what I do believe is that the 10 starts and you are a 4 rule should be re-evaluated. All you have to do is start and DNF 10 times to move up. It should be based on top 10's instead.

I was in crits with fields of over 100 riders. I can't remember a race I did that had less than 80. Most races out there are crits so we didn't have the luxury of being out on the open road. I did masters races and 4's races out there. The masters stuff was faster as smoother, as would be expected, however the difference wasn't as pronounced. We've seen quite a few crashes in our 4's races this year in smaller fields than what I used to in Cali. Why that is I can't say for sure, what I do believe is that the 10 starts and you are a 4 rule should be re-evaluated. All you have to do is start and DNF 10 times to move up. It should be based on top 10's instead.

I'd probably still be a 5 then. I dont think I had 1 top 10 out of my cat 5 races, which iirc really included only 2 "cat 5" races, the rest were combined 4/5 and 1 was an open masters race. However, when I started racing I did have mastery of riding my bike in a straight line, knew how I was supposed to handle myself in a group, and could go around a corner without drifting or chopping.

I've argued this before and it's been shat upon by others on this board, but the biggest contibution to sloppiness in my observation is too many newer racers train by doing the big mixed group rides where they're hanging on for dear life and never learning to control their bike otherwise, just survive on it + riding solo + racing. On the big group rides, most get dropped and end up riding solo, or hang on the back never taking a pull or working through and therefore never learning how to handle themselves in tight quarters.

What is absent from this equation is riding in smaller groups of 6ish - 15ish riders like a "team" ride, riding in different types of pacelines, getting advice from someone who can answer the questions "what specifically did I do wrong?/what specifically should I have done differently?" and not doing any skill based training like cornering, staying in a tight group around a bend, through an intersection, etc.

The other big contribution to sloppiness is mtn bikers or triathletes trying road bike racing. mtn bikers have lots of skills, they're just the wrong ones and dont include handling themselves in a group. triathletes - no other comments needed, they're all a mess.

What is absent from this equation is riding in smaller groups of 6ish - 15ish riders like a "team" ride, riding in different types of pacelines, getting advice from someone who can answer the questions "what specifically did I do wrong?/what specifically should I have done differently?" and not doing any skill based training like cornering, staying in a tight group around a bend, through an intersection, etc.

This is exactly the type of ride I coached out here for about five years before I started racing again. It was a lot of fun. The funny thing is that about 1/2 of my students were women, which is not a reflection of the ratio of racers. I suppose for the men it would be like reading directions -- not gonna happen.

This is exactly the type of ride I coached out here for about five years before I started racing again. It was a lot of fun. The funny thing is that about 1/2 of my students were women, which is not a reflection of the ratio of racers. I suppose for the men it would be like reading directions -- not gonna happen.


it is fun, that's why I shake my head that all the donkey's dont want to do these types of rides, just hammah'.

the club I'm in has put together skills clinics this year with a former teammate of mine who's now a coach (he's actually a Buff, about same age as me and you, you probably know him). Anyway, I think it's been successful.

When I started racing the first time in the late 80's the team I joined had several cat 1/2 riders who took us to a parking lot and had us ride in tennis shoes (not toe clipped in pre look pedals for me). They then rode us around while bumping us and pushing us. This taught us to handle our bikes in race while getting pushed around a bit. We then did the same drills while clipped in. Next we worked on cornering in a group, we also did things like pick up water bottles off the ground. All this before we even raced for the first time.

I'm not trying to knock TX racers, most are good riders and can handle their bikes. I'm just surprised by the fact that in fields that are smaller and on generally wider roads there are so many accidents.

I'm just surprised by the fact that in fields that are smaller and on generally wider roads there are so many accidents.

It's just 'cause we have balls and think we can make some crazy sh1t happen. Cali dudes just want to go have a latte and think about it. ;) This is why Texas will always kick Cali's ass in a cage fight. Or in the Rose Bowl.

:D

It's just 'cause we have balls and think we can make some crazy sh1t happen. Cali dudes just want to go have a latte and think about it. ;) This is why Texas will always kick Cali's ass in a cage fight. Or in the Rose Bowl.

:D

Man you guys have to hang your hat on something....btw I think you look at who has more nat championships that goes to SC.

Man you guys have to hang your hat on something....btw I think you look at who has more nat championships that goes to SC.

obviously only because they didn't play a Tx team each time.... :innocent: