Road Cycling - Steel frame for large rider

I wanted to get peoples thoughts on a new frame I'm looking for.

I'm 6' 5", 225lbs and i will be doing club rides and eventually centuries.

I can't afford Ti and I prefer Steel to carbon.

I'm looking at an e. Merckx MX Leader (63) and a Ind. Fab Crown Jewel w. steel fork (63). Both frames are essentialluy the same price.

I've only read great things about both frames and I wanted to see if anyone had opinions here.

Problem is I can't ride either as no one has those sizes to test. In fact no one has anything near my size be it Ti, carbon, Al or steel.

Thanks in advance

Have you tried a Cannondale 66cm? Occasionally you can find one used. It's a special order frameset (produced in batches) that you can find in the frame dimension chart in the back of the catalog. Try to keep them from cutting the steerer tube before you get it.

As far as I know, there is nothing bigger that is production, though there might be a Fuji that comes close.

Some bike shops will order the frameset and a parts kit from C'dale, and you can get one for the price of any other new bike.

I wanted to get peoples thoughts on a new frame I'm looking for.

I'm 6' 5", 225lbs and i will be doing club rides and eventually centuries.

I can't afford Ti and I prefer Steel to carbon.

I'm looking at an e. Merckx MX Leader (63) and a Ind. Fab Crown Jewel w. steel fork (63). Both frames are essentialluy the same price.

I've only read great things about both frames and I wanted to see if anyone had opinions here.

Problem is I can't ride either as no one has those sizes to test. In fact no one has anything near my size be it Ti, carbon, Al or steel.

Thanks in advance

I think either would do you fine. I am a bit shorter and a bit heavier than you, 6'3", 240lbs, and I ride a 61cm Lemond Zurich, the steel/carbon hybrid. It is a great bike, but it would probably be a bit small for you. Before buying any bike, I would insist on a test ride at least on something the same size and similar geometry. You might order one of those bikes and it could turn out to be wrong for you.

Hit all the LBS'.Someone, somewhere is bound to have something you could test.

Have you considered a Rivendell Romulus?--they go up to 63 and their Redwoods start at 65. I was looking for a steel frame at a reasonable price and found it very difficult to find one at any LBS. There are no Rivendell dealers in my neck of the woods (Fort Worth, TX) so I had to trust the recommendations of others. So far I am very happy with it. Their website is www.rivendellbicycles.com.

Both these frames are totally different bikes. How can you be deciding between two utterly different machines?

www.ebay.com Your source for Steel

When comparing steel frames I think it would be more benifical to pay much more attention to the type of steel and construction then brand name.

Orbea makes a couple awesome steel frames... beautiful paint and excellent welds... a guy about your size at work rides one and LOVES it.

I think either would do you fine. I am a bit shorter and a bit heavier than you, 6'3", 240lbs, and I ride a 61cm Lemond Zurich, the steel/carbon hybrid. It is a great bike, but it would probably be a bit small for you. Before buying any bike, I would insist on a test ride at least on something the same size and similar geometry. You might order one of those bikes and it could turn out to be wrong for you.

Hit all the LBS'.Someone, somewhere is bound to have something you could test.

I think the 61cm Lemond might be worth trying. I am a little over 6'2" and found the LeMond 59 cm to be a little big for my taste. LeMond of course measures center to center vs. center to top, so their sizes will be larger in general.

You are going to have problems finding a bike shop that has your size in stock you may have to test something a bit small for you to see what it is like. Cautions on ebay, you never really know if the stuff is "hot" or not and you will not have the service an LBS can offer. Like if it doesn't fit can you return it easily? I think with a specialized size like yours go find a reputable LBS in your area and talk to them they may be able to help you out.

Thanks for all the info.

To SDS - I'm tying to stay away frome Thin wall Al because of some longevity concerns my friends have had with their (Fuji, Cdale) bikes. Thanks for the size info none the less.,

To TrekRider & Markdoc - I am not familiar w/ Lemond but i believe there is a dealer in my area. If they mreasure C to C, than they may work for me.

To Croshaven - I don't have any of teir dealers near me either but I'll check their web site

To Seely - I'll check Orbea too. Don't know if they are in my area. Do they measure C to C?

To Thylacine - I don't feel these bike are totally different. Maybe the Indy Fab Clubracer has more similar frame measurements to the MX Leader, either way all three are high quality and I have just started my search.

Thanks again for the help.

Just ignore the seat tube measurement - it tells you nothing about fit. Concentrate on the top tube measurement as it's the starting point for where your handlebars are going to be.

As for the Indyfab and Merckx, they ARE totally different bikes. The Merckx is a brazed lugged Nivacrom Max tubed frame, and the IF is a TIG welded mix of air hardening steel alloy tubes. Both will suit your needs, but the Merckx in your size will be probably over 5lbs realistically - and the IF will probably be around 4.25lbs. In terms of geometry, both are totally different, so I'm not sure where you got the impression they're both similar -

Indy fab -
Seat Tube: 63 cm / Top Tube: 62.0 cm / Angles: 74º-72º

Merckx
Seat Tube: 63cm / Top Tube: 59.5cm / Angles: 73º ( a guess ) -71.6º

Why is the Merckx so short I hear you ask? Well, it looks like Merckx doesn't get custom drawn downtubes, because the Max downtube only comes in 570mm long, which is too short for the bigger frames. On this alone I can't recommend the Merckx, because if I'm 6ft 4ins and utilise a 605mm top tube, how are you going to be comfortable on a 595?

If you were my customer, as a starting point I'd say you'd want to be looking at something like this -

Seat Tube: 60cm (ø31.7) Sloping top tube design / Top Tube: 62cm (ø31.7) / Angles: 73º-71.5º

Other specs: Larger ø38mm down tube, head tube reinforcing rings top and bottom, 425mm chainstays, and 177.5mm cranks. True Temper AlphaQ X2 forks or Wound Up.

Anything short of this, and I think you'd be doing yourself a bit of a disservice really. Man, I can't believe I just gave away all my 'big guy' secrets! *laugh*

it seems very odd to me to spend in excess of $2000 for a bike you haven't even tried to see if it fits. very, very, odd.

that said, both bikes have normal straight top tubes so geometry seems similar, except the merckx has a smaller top tube than the IF. the merckx is also very heavy (according to the colorado cyclist website, 6lbs.) and built like a tank.

i wouldn't really listen to thyacline's tip on the fact he fits in a 605mm tt, so how would you; every person has a different body. in your case, you might have a shorter torso and longer neck and head. (for example, i'm a 6'2 guy, but i pretty much have a big head and a 6' body).

the main difference between the IF and the merckx, however, is that the IF is a custom bike; and i think that's whyt he poster above said they're totally diff. the IF peeps will fit you in a fitting session to the right dimensions.

sd

I'm 6'4" and 250 Lbs at the moment. I bought a Viner Competition from GVHBIKES.COM and am very happy with it. Take a look. I have a 61cm (c-c) and they have larger bikes as well. The frame has been great. No more numb hands and it is stiff enough for a big guy.

The Viner Competition in that size is made with Dedacciai Zero Tre tubing, Dedacciai's heaviest guage tubeset designed for heavier riders and a very good choice for a big rider.

My Bianchi has a Superset frame made rom ZeroTre. I'm 5'11" amd hover around 200 lbs. My frame is nine years old and is in fantastic shape, despite being ridden in all kinds of weather. Most of the suggestions you have gotten are great. I would just go to mfg. websites and look to see whats offered, then try to find the largest frames you can find at local shops to test ride, even id they aren't quite the right size, the ride should be comparable if the bikes are built right.

I wanted to get peoples thoughts on a new frame I'm looking for. I'm 6' 5", 225lbs and i will be doing club rides and eventually centuries. I can't afford Ti and I prefer Steel to carbon. I'm looking at an e. Merckx MX Leader (63) and a Ind. Fab Crown Jewel w. steel fork (63). Both frames are essentialluy the same price.

I've only read great things about both frames and I wanted to see if anyone had opinions here. Problem is I can't ride either as no one has those sizes to test. In fact no one has anything near my size be it Ti, carbon, Al or steel.

If I were you, I would call Waterford ( http://www.waterfordbikes.com/2004/index.php ) and talk to them about a frame. Their handmade lugged steel frames are top quality, and all are custom sized and made to order. They would have no problem working with you, and are experts at fitting frames. I think you would find them an excellent choice.

shaq-d said.....

"it seems very odd to me to spend in excess of $2000 for a bike you haven't even tried to see if it fits. very, very, odd."

I agree, he needs to get fitted, then go shopping for a frame.

"that said, both bikes have normal straight top tubes so geometry seems similar, except the merckx has a smaller top tube than the IF. the merckx is also very heavy (according to the colorado cyclist website, 6lbs.) and built like a tank."

Geometry is not similar at all. Go read the specs. How can you say the top tubes are both level, so the specs are the same? What's one degree between friends, eh?

"i wouldn't really listen to thyacline's tip on the fact he fits in a 605mm tt, so how would you; every person has a different body. in your case, you might have a shorter torso and longer neck and head. (for example, i'm a 6'2 guy, but i pretty much have a big head and a 6' body)."

I used my measurement as a frame of reference, and I think it's valid starting point, like I said. I think there's a very, very good chance the Merckx would be too small for him. Plus, who wants a 6lb frame? Even my urban/trials frame is lighter than that. Old technology, my friend. You're buying a name and a retro paint job, and not much else.

"the main difference between the IF and the merckx, however, is that the IF is a custom bike; and i think that's whyt he poster above said they're totally diff. the IF peeps will fit you in a fitting session to the right dimensions."

Actually, I was the one that said both are different bikes. Because, well, they are. The only thing in common they have is a price tag.




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k, looks like i end up agreeing with thy..


shaq-d said.....

"it seems very odd to me to spend in excess of $2000 for a bike you haven't even tried to see if it fits. very, very, odd."

I agree, he needs to get fitted, then go shopping for a frame.

"that said, both bikes have normal straight top tubes so geometry seems similar, except the merckx has a smaller top tube than the IF. the merckx is also very heavy (according to the colorado cyclist website, 6lbs.) and built like a tank."

Geometry is not similar at all. Go read the specs. How can you say the top tubes are both level, so the specs are the same? What's one degree between friends, eh?

"i wouldn't really listen to thyacline's tip on the fact he fits in a 605mm tt, so how would you; every person has a different body. in your case, you might have a shorter torso and longer neck and head. (for example, i'm a 6'2 guy, but i pretty much have a big head and a 6' body)."

I used my measurement as a frame of reference, and I think it's valid starting point, like I said. I think there's a very, very good chance the Merckx would be too small for him. Plus, who wants a 6lb frame? Even my urban/trials frame is lighter than that. Old technology, my friend. You're buying a name and a retro paint job, and not much else.

"the main difference between the IF and the merckx, however, is that the IF is a custom bike; and i think that's whyt he poster above said they're totally diff. the IF peeps will fit you in a fitting session to the right dimensions."

Actually, I was the one that said both are different bikes. Because, well, they are. The only thing in common they have is a price tag.




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I would strongly recommend at least looking at a product who provides custom geometry to see if that benefits you. I am 6'5 and 240lbs and had an awful time feeling comfortable on nearly every frame out there. I had guys who were my height and taller telling me which bike that was right for me based on their experience. That was until I walked into a shop that looked at more than the basic measurements. Leg length (including separate femur and tibia lengths), torso length, rider position among other things pointed to me being a poster boy for a custom frame. I went with Serotta and ended up with a 61 with a 65 top tube. Best purchase I ever made. The joy of finally being comfortable, because my body was no longer fighting itself to compensate for fit, was like magic. I would check out Serotta, IF, and Waterford just to have those shops measure you with their fit systems to see if it is worth the money. It not, you will likely come away with a better knowledge of the unique aspects of your fit nonetheless. Also, you may be surprised that you can get one of those bikes for a price that is not too much higher than many bikes off the sales rack. Good luck.

Eman is 100% correct except that if money is an issue as it was with me you'll find that these custom framebuilders are quite expensive. A steel frame/fork with "lower-end" components will run you $2,000-$3,000. If money is an issue you'll end up like me trying to make an off-the-shelf frame fit you. If you have the money I would go custom. I was very impressed by Serotta.

Indy fab -
Seat Tube: 63 cm / Top Tube: 62.0 cm / Angles: 74º-72º

Merckx
Seat Tube: 63cm / Top Tube: 59.5cm / Angles: 73º ( a guess ) -71.6º

Why is the Merckx so short I hear you ask? Well, it looks like Merckx doesn't get custom drawn downtubes, because the Max downtube only comes in 570mm long, which is too short for the bigger frames. On this alone I can't recommend the Merckx, because if I'm 6ft 4ins and utilise a 605mm top tube, how are you going to be comfortable on a 595?


According to Nova Cycles, the US importer for Columbus tubing, the Max downtube came in a 670mm length, and always did. This is long enough to build frames up to 65cm, according to Nova.

And when one reviews toptube lengths on numerous frames, especially Italian frames, one finds that a 59.5cm toptube in this size is the norm, and maybe just a tad long. Gios uses a 59cm tt in their 64cm frame and Pinarello uses a 59 cm tt in their 62 cm frame. 59.5cm is obviously not short by European frame standards.