Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling - Which Carradice bag?

I am looking to carry the following on my bike for a few brevets (300/400k) I plan on doing this year.

Extra pair of shorts, heavy jacket or insulated vest (for evening, early morning), arm/leg warmers, multi-tool, 2 spare tubes, tire irons, rain jacket/pants, wool undershirt, spare batteries, reflective vest/sash.

What bag(s) do you use and what is the smallest bag you might recommend? I am looking at possibly buying a Barley, but without one to try fitting my stuff in, not sure if it will all fit.

I am riding a Litespeed Arenberg with a Fizik Arione saddle, so I know that I will want a Bagman or similar rack to support the bag.

Thanks for your time.

Jim

You've got a lot of things in that list that sound like duplicate/unnecessary items (IMO). Probably don't need spare shorts on a 300/400k. Rain jacket over wool base should give enough insulation that you don't need arm warmers and a rain jacket and an insulated jacket/vest. You shouldn't need to worry about stashing the reflective sash, since you'll be wearing it for the entire ride.

(Sorry, I don't know about the sizes on Carradice bags; I just thought I could help whittle down some of your excess gear and get you into a smaller bag.)

I have a Barley (http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/carradice.asp). I can fit about everything you mention into it when carefully packed. It may be just slightly small depending on how thick your jacket is. Mine is fairly thin. I like it. I also use the new bagman support with the quick release levers.

Since I bought it though Peter White started selling the Super C Barley. Instead of buckles it has plastic latches that are much easier to open and close. Over a long ride that could save a lot of time if you tend to go to the bag often.

If you get the new bagman support be sure to remove the rail and add lock-tight to the allan nuts or you'll lose the rail on your first ride. At the very least tighten them down well. Some people have had problems with losing the quick release levers but they've worked fine for me over the last 1000 miles or so.

The Barley should work fine for all brevets, if you don't overpack.

For instance, I would question the use of rain pants and a compact vest is usually enough insulation for most conditions, if you have a decent rain jacket to put over it. Carry a compact emergency blanket.

Anyway, each to his/her own, but I'd say you wouldn't need the Nelson if you pack conservatively.

Rando bags (http://www.veloweb.ca/tourpages/bikebags.html#randobags).

It's easy enough to find out, just take all your gear and put it in a plastic garbage bag and see if it will fit in the dimensions of the bag you're considering. If it won't, either look at a bigger bag or decide what you can live without.

You've got a lot of things in that list that sound like duplicate/unnecessary items (IMO). Probably don't need spare shorts on a 300/400k. Rain jacket over wool base should give enough insulation that you don't need arm warmers and a rain jacket and an insulated jacket/vest. You shouldn't need to worry about stashing the reflective sash, since you'll be wearing it for the entire ride.

(Sorry, I don't know about the sizes on Carradice bags; I just thought I could help whittle down some of your excess gear and get you into a smaller bag.)

i agree with this, and would also say that it's probably a good idea to bring more than two tubes (well for the bigger rides anyway), or at least a patch kit.

but the best way to learn what to bring (and what not to), is to make the mistake yourself. after carrying way too much crap over four passes last year, i learned realy quick what i actually need on a brevet.


edit: and more on topic, i've used a "junior" carradice bag and it was ok. but i hated having all that weight on the rear of the bike, and have since switched to a handlebar bag (ostrich).

I own a bagman and Junior bag.

Carefull with the bagman: make sure that you have the room to attach it to your saddle. That is, the saddle has to be moved back to accomodate the bar that attaches to the rails. Depending of the design of the seat post, this may or may not be the dimension that is stated as minimum.

A Barley sits permanently on my audax/commuter bike. It also did duty on Paris-Brest-Paris 2007.
It should comfortably accommodate the things you want to carry. For what it's worth, I think that on a 300 you could quite happily ditch a couple of items from your list, such as spare pants.

My standard packing list for the Barley includes:
Side pocket 1 - two tubes, tyre levers, puncture repair kit.
Side pocket 2 - Topeak bike multitool, Leatherman juice, and odds and ends such as zip ties and spare cable.
Main bag - Reflective vest and ankle strips, showerproof shell (it packs small enough for a pocket, but I prefer to carry it in the bag), arm warmers, lighting spares, batteries, small quantity of medical items/cream/sunblock/tissues, extra energy bars. There's still enough space to pack my mobile phone, shirt, underwear, socks and small towel for work (I keep the other stuff at work).
I bungee-cord a light waterproof jacket to the top of the bag using the lashing loops.
With what I've mentioned above, the side pockets can still take a bit more stuffing.
Up to 400 km I can't think of anything more than leg warmers that I'd add.

The bag is mounted to the saddle with the quick-release Bagman. I wouldn't recommend this arrangement with a seat tube shorter than 54 cm c-c. Mine's a 54, and when fully loaded the bag rubs the rear wheel. A folding tyre secured crossways on the base of the Bagman nicely props up the bag to keep it from sagging.

i have a barley and think it works well for a 300k and up, esp if you are doing the rides with minimal control support.

i probably wouldn't carry spare shorts on a 300k (i'd use a drop bag if available) - but 400k and above its really nice to change into clean shorts.

that said, the barley is a bit large - so for a fair weather 300k it is probably a bit too big.
mine stays on my commuter / town bike and moves to my brevet bike when needed.

i have a barley and think it works well for a 300k and up, esp if you are doing the rides with minimal control support.

i probably wouldn't carry spare shorts on a 300k (i'd use a drop bag if available) - but 400k and above its really nice to change into clean shorts.

that said, the barley is a bit large - so for a fair weather 300k it is probably a bit too big.
mine stays on my commuter / town bike and moves to my brevet bike when needed.

I have a Lowsaddle Longflap, and on a fair number of longer rides (400K to 1200K) it ends up jam-packed full in the afternoon. When the ride start is well below freezing and you know it's going to be freezing again by midnight, you need some serious winter clothes. But then it warms up to the high 70's in the afternoon, so all those winter clothes have got to go somewhere. For me, that means: Neoprene shoe covers, wool socks under the shoe covers, heavy mittens, wool hat, ear covers, face mask, neck gaitor, helmet cover, heavy winter tights, lighter tights, jacket, extra shirt, & arm warmers. It all takes a fair amount of space. Plus you're carrying food for 400K, which can also take up a fair amount of space.

The extra carrying capacity is not quite free, but it is at very low cost: A Barley on a Bagman weighs 1005 grams and holds 7 liters. A Lowsaddle Longflap on a Bagman weighs 1233 grams and holds 15 liters (probably more if you use the longflap). So for more than double the space, you have to carry only an extra 228 grams. That's about the same as the weight of the water in a 1/3 full water bottle. Just don't fill up the extra capacity "because it's there"

If you really want to save some weight, buy some clamps that will let you ditch the Bagman. My saddle has loops, but you can get a clamp from Carradice or from other sources that will save considerable weight.

Velo Orange sells bag loops for attaching a Carradice bag to saddle without loops.
http://www.velo-orange.com/vivabagloops.html
http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/yhst-84224226242177_2044_14921183

SNIP... When the ride start is well below freezing and you know it's going to be freezing again by midnight, you need some serious winter clothes. But then it warms up to the high 70's in the afternoon....SNIP

That is a temerature differential of 45 (or more) degrees, which is quite uncommon and generally limited to arid regions. I agree with everything you said about bags, I'm just picking nits with the logic used. :)

With less extreme of a temp swing, one can plan for less carrying of modular clothing items. Ie, if you bring it you will be using it most of the time...

FWIW, I have a barley, and wish it were 10L, not 7. I made a 'longflap' out of a ripped up barbour coat to increase the capacity for cramming.

That is a temerature differential of 45 (or more) degrees, which is quite uncommon and generally limited to arid regions. I agree with everything you said about bags, I'm just picking nits with the logic used. :)

With less extreme of a temp swing, one can plan for less carrying of modular clothing items. Ie, if you bring it you will be using it most of the time...

FWIW, I have a barley, and wish it were 10L, not 7. I made a 'longflap' out of a ripped up barbour coat to increase the capacity for cramming.

Some of the temperature swing just comes from the ground we're covering, with rides that start near mountains and go over them in the morning, when its frigid, but then may go down into valleys / foothills in the afternoon and may also be 60 miles further south by then. Maybe, also, it isn't actually in the high 70's but only feels like it sitting at a control, on blacktop, out of the wind and with the sun blazing down (and maybe it even says so on those highly accurate bank thermometers). Nonetheless, you're still riding in everything you've got in the morning, with feet like blocks of ice, but you're in your shorts and short sleeves by lunch time.

That Barley longflap sounds pretty cool :-)

Nonetheless, you're still riding in everything you've got in the morning, with feet like blocks of ice, but you're in your shorts and short sleeves by lunch time.

I'm just starting into randonneuring, but from my commuting I know exactly what you're talking about. Here in WA, it can be high 30s for the morning commute and up to the low 60s for the ride home. Or on some of my LD rides, low 50s close to sea level and mid 30s when you get up to 3500' elevation.

Nelson Longflap.

Considerably bigger than the barley, but still straps down small. If you have some bulky stuff, unfold the flap and fit in a stack more. How much more?

Here's a photo of one with 2 winter-weight sleeping bags.

http://www.mvsara.co.uk/saddlebag.JPG

I just got an Carradice SQR Tour for a similar purpose. It's a bit on the big side but is not too heavy and it doesn't get in the way at all.

The mount is rock solid with no sway at all. It also acts as a rear mudguard on bikes without fenders.

You will need a non-carbon seatpost to mount and enough seatpost exposed for the mount to attach. It's an amazing bag. I could post a photo or two with my Specialized Roubaix if you like.

I don't know where you plan to buy. Wallbike.com has 30 day no question return policy. I just bought a carradice zip roll from them and its bigger than what their website says -- a little bigger than I had in mind. For $5.00 return postage I got to find this out first hand with no hassle. Naturally I have done and will do more business with them.

Bob