bdcheung
03-03-09, 01:57 PM
For those of you not so good at math, the question is:
Who has had more hype than results?
Who has had more hype than results?
"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - So whose hype:results ratio is greater?
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YMCA
03-03-09, 02:03 PM
Michael Rogers.
merlinextraligh
03-03-09, 02:06 PM
With the exception of the lunatics who thought Hincapie could win the TDF, Hincapie has pretty much lived up to expectations, and has respectable palmares.
Won a classic, Ghent Wevelgem, and a semi classic, Kuurne Brussels Kuurne. US Pro championships, TDF stage win, number of other stage wins. Tour of Missouri overall. And has come very close in PAris Roubaix.
Other than a TDG win, Has Danielson accomplished anything of note?
Won a classic, Ghent Wevelgem, and a semi classic, Kuurne Brussels Kuurne. US Pro championships, TDF stage win, number of other stage wins. Tour of Missouri overall. And has come very close in PAris Roubaix.
Other than a TDG win, Has Danielson accomplished anything of note?
MDcatV
03-03-09, 02:18 PM
With the exception of the lunatics who thought Hincapie could win the TDF, Hincapie has pretty much lived up to expectations, and has respectable palmares.
Other than a TDG win, Has Danielson accomplished anything of note?
aside from securing a contract to ride on a pro tour team, off the top of my head, he's got a:
Vuelta stage win '06
Vuelta top 10 finishes on GC
if only the rest of us could accomplish so little :p
on Hincapie, he's maybe been overhyped by OLN and liggett/sherwin commentary as much as he's been undersupported by his team in his target races, but come on, he's made a damned respectable career out of this bicycle racing stuff.
sorry, as someone who's never won anything bigger than a cat 3 race, I have a hard time being too critical of those who've accomplished things at the top level of this sport.
Other than a TDG win, Has Danielson accomplished anything of note?
aside from securing a contract to ride on a pro tour team, off the top of my head, he's got a:
Vuelta stage win '06
Vuelta top 10 finishes on GC
if only the rest of us could accomplish so little :p
on Hincapie, he's maybe been overhyped by OLN and liggett/sherwin commentary as much as he's been undersupported by his team in his target races, but come on, he's made a damned respectable career out of this bicycle racing stuff.
sorry, as someone who's never won anything bigger than a cat 3 race, I have a hard time being too critical of those who've accomplished things at the top level of this sport.
merlinextraligh
03-03-09, 02:22 PM
if only the rest of us could accomplish so little :p
True. My reaction to Danielson is largely the result of all the hype. With the frame of reference of a guy starting racing for a Community College, he's accomplished a tremendous amount.
As the next great American TDF hope, not so much.
True. My reaction to Danielson is largely the result of all the hype. With the frame of reference of a guy starting racing for a Community College, he's accomplished a tremendous amount.
As the next great American TDF hope, not so much.
umd
03-03-09, 02:33 PM
Damn, I thought this thread was going to be about BF members. I'm disappointed :p
merlinextraligh
03-03-09, 02:39 PM
Patencad
cmh
03-03-09, 03:14 PM
Its been around 2 years since either of them had any hype. Shouldn't we be disappointed in some other pro cyclists by now?
Psimet2001
03-03-09, 03:15 PM
damn, i thought this thread was going to be about bf members. I'm disappointed :p
+1.
+1.
El Diablo Rojo
03-03-09, 03:51 PM
aside from securing a contract to ride on a pro tour team, off the top of my head, he's got a:
Vuelta stage win '06
Vuelta top 10 finishes on GC
if only the rest of us could accomplish so little :p
sorry, as someone who's never won anything bigger than a cat 3 race, I have a hard time being too critical of those who've accomplished things at the top level of this sport.
I hate this logic. You can't compare a pro level rider to us weekend warriors. You need to look at what TD has accomplished next to his peers. He is paid to race his bike we (for the most part) are not. He was hired to be a GT contender and on that note be has failed. He is not a one day specialist and doesn't have the duribility to be a super domestic. So please tell me, when compared to his peers, what has he accomplished?
Vuelta stage win '06
Vuelta top 10 finishes on GC
if only the rest of us could accomplish so little :p
sorry, as someone who's never won anything bigger than a cat 3 race, I have a hard time being too critical of those who've accomplished things at the top level of this sport.
I hate this logic. You can't compare a pro level rider to us weekend warriors. You need to look at what TD has accomplished next to his peers. He is paid to race his bike we (for the most part) are not. He was hired to be a GT contender and on that note be has failed. He is not a one day specialist and doesn't have the duribility to be a super domestic. So please tell me, when compared to his peers, what has he accomplished?
JaRow
03-03-09, 03:57 PM
I hate this logic. You can't compare a pro level rider to us weekend warriors. You need to look at what TD has accomplished next to his peers. He is paid to race his bike we (for the most part) are not. He was hired to be a GT contender and on that note be has failed. He is not a one day specialist and doesn't have the duribility to be a super domestic. So please tell me, when compared to his peers, what has he accomplished?
He has a hotter wife.
He has a hotter wife.
kwrides
03-03-09, 04:17 PM
He has a hotter wife.
hotter than George's? Proof please!
hotter than George's? Proof please!
MDcatV
03-03-09, 04:28 PM
I hate this logic. You can't compare a pro level rider to us weekend warriors. You need to look at what TD has accomplished next to his peers. He is paid to race his bike we (for the most part) are not. He was hired to be a GT contender and on that note be has failed. He is not a one day specialist and doesn't have the duribility to be a super domestic. So please tell me, when compared to his peers, what has he accomplished?
he has a 6th and a 7th on GC in a grand tour including a stage win; won the tour of austria; and for what it's worth won the tour of georgia. not the second coming of lemond, but not a bad showing for 2006 - 2009. and lets face it, regardless of durability issues, neither you nor anyone else who wasnt in the group or on the team has a clue whether he's been a good domestique to disco victories he's been alongside.
I dont think his "peers" are guys like contador, basso, simoni or even leipheimer; his peers are more like the christophe moreau, iban mayo, haimar zubeldia, or other GC guys that would be considered likely to finish 5th - 10th in a gt, but not likely to win. To them, without looking up any palmares, I'd bet he compares OK.
he has a 6th and a 7th on GC in a grand tour including a stage win; won the tour of austria; and for what it's worth won the tour of georgia. not the second coming of lemond, but not a bad showing for 2006 - 2009. and lets face it, regardless of durability issues, neither you nor anyone else who wasnt in the group or on the team has a clue whether he's been a good domestique to disco victories he's been alongside.
I dont think his "peers" are guys like contador, basso, simoni or even leipheimer; his peers are more like the christophe moreau, iban mayo, haimar zubeldia, or other GC guys that would be considered likely to finish 5th - 10th in a gt, but not likely to win. To them, without looking up any palmares, I'd bet he compares OK.
vinofan
03-03-09, 04:33 PM
Damn, I thought this thread was going to be about BF members. I'm disappointed :p
As a general rule the better someone tells you they are, the worse of a rider they actually are.
I'm sure someone has an equation for it on here.
As a general rule the better someone tells you they are, the worse of a rider they actually are.
I'm sure someone has an equation for it on here.
botto
03-03-09, 04:48 PM
Jens Voigt.
Flatballer
03-03-09, 05:07 PM
Damn, I thought this thread was going to be about BF members. I'm disappointed :p
same here.
I was going to nominate myself.
same here.
I was going to nominate myself.
ninjaman
03-03-09, 05:14 PM
Pozzato, (almost) every year.
tonyzackery
03-03-09, 05:37 PM
Pozzato, (almost) every year.
No doubt. Even male media types would love to be in his groupie entourage.
No doubt. Even male media types would love to be in his groupie entourage.
umd
03-03-09, 05:41 PM
As a general rule the better someone tells you they are, the worse of a rider they actually are.
I'm sure someone has an equation for it on here.
I tell people I suck... does that mean I'm actually good?
I'm sure someone has an equation for it on here.
I tell people I suck... does that mean I'm actually good?
specq
03-03-09, 05:50 PM
Jens Voigt.
Care to elaborate?
He may have a big pain/results ratio - but I don't think of him as really hyped.
Care to elaborate?
He may have a big pain/results ratio - but I don't think of him as really hyped.
CrimsonKarter21
03-03-09, 06:10 PM
Does this mean we can finally ditch the "Big" from "Big George Hincapie"?
classic1
03-03-09, 06:23 PM
Michael Rogers.
LOL. The bloke is a three time world TT champ, has won a Tour of Germany, Tour of Belgium, Route de Sud, Tour top 10. If anything he isn't overhyped at all, it's the opposite.
LOL. The bloke is a three time world TT champ, has won a Tour of Germany, Tour of Belgium, Route de Sud, Tour top 10. If anything he isn't overhyped at all, it's the opposite.
ninjaman
03-03-09, 07:28 PM
LOL. The bloke is a three time world TT champ, has won a Tour of Germany, Tour of Belgium, Route de Sud, Tour top 10. If anything he isn't overhyped at all, it's the opposite.
+1 How many 3 time world champions can you think of whose name is less known? Rogers doesn't even get hyped on his own team, but he is definitely a darkhorse in just about any race he enters. This season looks to be his best yet, and he appears to be healthier than he's been in a long time. I have a feeling he'll make you eat your words by the end of '09. Someone want to start an inverse thread? I nominate Michael Rogers.
+1 How many 3 time world champions can you think of whose name is less known? Rogers doesn't even get hyped on his own team, but he is definitely a darkhorse in just about any race he enters. This season looks to be his best yet, and he appears to be healthier than he's been in a long time. I have a feeling he'll make you eat your words by the end of '09. Someone want to start an inverse thread? I nominate Michael Rogers.
El Diablo Rojo
03-03-09, 07:39 PM
I dont think his "peers" are guys like contador, basso, simoni or even leipheimer; his peers are more like the christophe moreau, iban mayo, haimar zubeldia, or other GC guys that would be considered likely to finish 5th - 10th in a gt, but not likely to win. To them, without looking up any palmares, I'd bet he compares OK.
I guess this is where you and I differ, he was introduced and has until just recently been presented as a GT winner. His 'hype' was no more than that surrounding Contador. He has spent almost as much time on IR as he has racing and I doubt that if this season is as bad as the previous one's he'll have a ProTour contract. I will agree that he is on level of the guys you mentioned but he was never presented as such.
I guess this is where you and I differ, he was introduced and has until just recently been presented as a GT winner. His 'hype' was no more than that surrounding Contador. He has spent almost as much time on IR as he has racing and I doubt that if this season is as bad as the previous one's he'll have a ProTour contract. I will agree that he is on level of the guys you mentioned but he was never presented as such.
classic1
03-03-09, 08:07 PM
+1 How many 3 time world champions can you think of whose name is less known? Rogers doesn't even get hyped on his own team, but he is definitely a darkhorse in just about any race he enters. This season looks to be his best yet, and he appears to be healthier than he's been in a long time. I have a feeling he'll make you eat your words by the end of '09. Someone want to start an inverse thread? I nominate Michael Rogers.
Good thread idea. I'll start one.
Good thread idea. I'll start one.
Racer Ex
03-03-09, 08:47 PM
Jens Voigt.
Incorrect. Worshipped for the type of rider he is, never held out as the next Merckx or whatever.
Cunego. Hands down.
Incorrect. Worshipped for the type of rider he is, never held out as the next Merckx or whatever.
Cunego. Hands down.
sgrundy
03-03-09, 08:51 PM
Incorrect. Worshipped for the type of rider he is, never held out as the next Merckx or whatever.
Cunego. Hands down.
Yes, but only with his recent performance in stage races. He's a great classics racer. Also, unlike TD, he had the results to justify the hype for a while.
Cunego. Hands down.
Yes, but only with his recent performance in stage races. He's a great classics racer. Also, unlike TD, he had the results to justify the hype for a while.
sgrundy
03-03-09, 09:01 PM
^^^ and, in the same vein, I'd say Valverde.
grolby
03-03-09, 09:08 PM
I think one big reason that Cunego is still talked up as a GT favorite is that everyone keeps asking themselves, "Yeah, he hasn't pulled it off in years, but do you really win the Giro as a fluke?? It is a bit hard to believe, but Cunego seems to have managed it. Maybe he'll get consistent enough to win another Giro as his career goes on, but the Tour? No. Way.
Racer Ex
03-03-09, 10:12 PM
Cunego was hyped (and talked himself) of competing with Armstrong. Every year he's in the conversation about a grand tour win, and every year he's double figures back.
His Giro win was due to a weak field and that he was given a Pereiro-like leash because of Simoni being considered the real threat. I would consider him a very good classics rider but not great. By magazine covers and press inches, he destroys TD in hype.
George is a hard call. Unlucky rider who only the USA idiots ever considered a grand tour threat. Sadly one of those idiots was GH himself. TD is to Amercia what Iban Mayo is to Spain.
Boonen deserves his press. He could quit today and still be discussed among the great classics riders.
Bettini was hugely underappreciated, at least in the anglo press. He gets my inverse award.
His Giro win was due to a weak field and that he was given a Pereiro-like leash because of Simoni being considered the real threat. I would consider him a very good classics rider but not great. By magazine covers and press inches, he destroys TD in hype.
George is a hard call. Unlucky rider who only the USA idiots ever considered a grand tour threat. Sadly one of those idiots was GH himself. TD is to Amercia what Iban Mayo is to Spain.
Boonen deserves his press. He could quit today and still be discussed among the great classics riders.
Bettini was hugely underappreciated, at least in the anglo press. He gets my inverse award.
Stallionforce
03-03-09, 10:34 PM
I guess the difference between hype and Danielson and Hincapie is that I've never once truly heard Hincapie hype himself. Sometimes he's confident, but not the sort of arrogance and contumely I'm accustomed to from Danielson. Danielson has mellowed somewhat over the years, and has perhaps come to realise his true potential. But overall I still have the feeling that Danielson is reluctant to ride for someone else's chances, which is something that George could never be accused of. In fact, I don't think you could pick two more different riders to compare, on any basis.
vinofan
03-04-09, 09:13 AM
I tell people I suck... does that mean I'm actually good?
That's start line talk, I suck, I don't feel great, haven't trained enough, etc....
That's start line talk, I suck, I don't feel great, haven't trained enough, etc....
merlinextraligh
03-04-09, 09:25 AM
That's start line talk, I suck, I don't feel great, haven't trained enough, etc....
or me talking to myself as I'm OTB
or me talking to myself as I'm OTB
TheJackMove
03-04-09, 11:39 AM
How 'bout Pantani? Outside of a few spectacular months when he was doped to the gills and the Ventoux incident, that dude never did anything other than crash, party, and complain. On the hype side, he had a talk show, sang and rapped a little bit, and met the pope.
MDcatV
03-04-09, 11:52 AM
How 'bout Pantani? Outside of a few spectacular months when he was doped to the gills and the Ventoux incident, that dude never did anything other than crash, party, and complain. On the hype side, he had a talk show, sang and rapped a little bit, and met the pope.
Very strongly disagree. Pantani won the giro and tour in the same year, and was without peer as a climber. Awesome to watch when he attacked, awesome.
Very strongly disagree. Pantani won the giro and tour in the same year, and was without peer as a climber. Awesome to watch when he attacked, awesome.
merlinextraligh
03-04-09, 11:58 AM
Very strongly disagree. Pantani won the giro and tour in the same year, and was without peer as a climber. Awesome to watch when he attacked, awesome.
Tour de France results
1994: 3rd overall; 2nd mountains classification; 1st young rider classification (Maillot blanc)
1995: 13th overall; 1st young rider classification (Maillot blanc); Stage 10 and 14 wins
1997: 3rd overall; Stage 13 and 15 wins
1998: 1st overall (maillot jaune); 7 days in maillot jaune; 2nd mountains classification; Stage 11 and 15 wins
2000: Stage 12 and 15 wins
[edit] Giro d'Italia results
1994: 2nd overall; 2nd young rider classification; 3rd mountains classification; Stage 14 and 15 wins
1998: 1st overall (maglia rosa); 1st mountains classification (maglia verde); Stage 14 and 19 wins
1999: Stage 8, 15, 19 and 20 wins
2000: 28th overall
2003: 14th overall
[edit] Other stage races and classics
UCI Road World Championships Road Race (1995): 3rd (Bronze Medal)
Vuelta a Murcia (1999): 1st overall
Tour de Suisse (1995): Stage 9 win
Setmana Catalana (1999): Stage 2 win
Vuelta a Murcia (1998): 3rd overall; Stage 4a win
Tour de France results
1994: 3rd overall; 2nd mountains classification; 1st young rider classification (Maillot blanc)
1995: 13th overall; 1st young rider classification (Maillot blanc); Stage 10 and 14 wins
1997: 3rd overall; Stage 13 and 15 wins
1998: 1st overall (maillot jaune); 7 days in maillot jaune; 2nd mountains classification; Stage 11 and 15 wins
2000: Stage 12 and 15 wins
[edit] Giro d'Italia results
1994: 2nd overall; 2nd young rider classification; 3rd mountains classification; Stage 14 and 15 wins
1998: 1st overall (maglia rosa); 1st mountains classification (maglia verde); Stage 14 and 19 wins
1999: Stage 8, 15, 19 and 20 wins
2000: 28th overall
2003: 14th overall
[edit] Other stage races and classics
UCI Road World Championships Road Race (1995): 3rd (Bronze Medal)
Vuelta a Murcia (1999): 1st overall
Tour de Suisse (1995): Stage 9 win
Setmana Catalana (1999): Stage 2 win
Vuelta a Murcia (1998): 3rd overall; Stage 4a win
deadly downtube
03-04-09, 12:09 PM
George has hype?? I just hear people saying he's getting old and needs a result..
how bout Ivan Basso?? i'm betting he doesn't score anything without the magic sauce.
how bout Ivan Basso?? i'm betting he doesn't score anything without the magic sauce.
MDcatV
03-04-09, 12:41 PM
George has hype?? I just hear people saying he's getting old and needs a result..
how bout Ivan Basso?? i'm betting he doesn't score anything without the magic sauce.
U23 world champ in 1998. (I dont know how much dope is in the U23 world, sure was alot in mine, but it didnt make you faster on a bike) :innocent:
call me a cynic, but I'm betting his results all came against others who were dabbling with the same magic sauce.
how bout Ivan Basso?? i'm betting he doesn't score anything without the magic sauce.
U23 world champ in 1998. (I dont know how much dope is in the U23 world, sure was alot in mine, but it didnt make you faster on a bike) :innocent:
call me a cynic, but I'm betting his results all came against others who were dabbling with the same magic sauce.
botto
03-04-09, 12:49 PM
Incorrect. Worshipped for the type of rider he is, never held out as the next Merckx or whatever.
Cunego. Hands down.
if only you knew how he was perceived by his peers.
Cunego. Hands down.
if only you knew how he was perceived by his peers.
merlinextraligh
03-04-09, 01:00 PM
^ enlighten us.
El Diablo Rojo
03-04-09, 01:43 PM
U23 world champ in 1998. (I dont know how much dope is in the U23 world, sure was alot in mine, but it didnt make you faster on a bike) :innocent:
call me a cynic, but I'm betting his results all came against others who were dabbling with the same magic sauce.
I agree. Basso was good against a doped Ulrich and most probably doped Armstrong. Although we will never see the "Supernatural" Basso of the Giro I think he'll be competitive this year. A top five is not out of the question.
I'll betcha a case of Guiness that he finishes in front of TD.
call me a cynic, but I'm betting his results all came against others who were dabbling with the same magic sauce.
I agree. Basso was good against a doped Ulrich and most probably doped Armstrong. Although we will never see the "Supernatural" Basso of the Giro I think he'll be competitive this year. A top five is not out of the question.
I'll betcha a case of Guiness that he finishes in front of TD.
MDcatV
03-04-09, 02:29 PM
I agree. Basso was good against a doped Ulrich and most probably doped Armstrong. Although we will never see the "Supernatural" Basso of the Giro I think he'll be competitive this year. A top five is not out of the question.
I'll betcha a case of Guiness that he finishes in front of TD.
well played, no bet, but well played.
I'll betcha a case of Guiness that he finishes in front of TD.
well played, no bet, but well played.
El Diablo Rojo
03-04-09, 02:36 PM
well played, no bet, but well played.
That's okay I don't drink much so it would take me the better part of a year to finish a case!!
That's okay I don't drink much so it would take me the better part of a year to finish a case!!
classic1
03-04-09, 03:52 PM
^ enlighten us.
I'm guessing, but I'd expect he is considered to be a major pain in the arse the way he is constantly on the attack. Nobody likes guys who go up the road in early in stages during the third week of the Tour.
An example of how annoyed riders can get over this style of racing was when the MG-GB team rode all out one year when they heard Jacky Durand (a noted constant long break specialist) was out the back early in a stage of the Tour during the second week. His constant attacks annoyed them so much they rode hard and put him away to ensure he missed the time limit.
I'm guessing, but I'd expect he is considered to be a major pain in the arse the way he is constantly on the attack. Nobody likes guys who go up the road in early in stages during the third week of the Tour.
An example of how annoyed riders can get over this style of racing was when the MG-GB team rode all out one year when they heard Jacky Durand (a noted constant long break specialist) was out the back early in a stage of the Tour during the second week. His constant attacks annoyed them so much they rode hard and put him away to ensure he missed the time limit.