Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling - Selecting the right bike for a brevet

I wrote about this brevet earlier on this forum, but I must bend your ear again. I am planning to ride a 200K brevet in May. This will be my first attempt at such a distance. To complicate things, there are three hard climbs. I have managed to ride one of them and another one I know I can ride.

This afternoon I drove my car up the third climb. It became evident I cannot make this climb on my road bike with the 50/34 double and 12/25 cassette. The climb is simply too steep for me to make with this bike. Therefore, my only other choice is my Surly LHT with its standard gears out of the box.

Does anyone ride a LHT for brevets? If so, what, if any, are the problems with this heavy bike for a 130 mile ride? I do not recall reading about long distance riders using a bike like this.

Thanks in advance.

You can do a search for the LHT here. The consensus is that it is a little heavier than ideal, but will not be a significant handicap.

Having said that, I don't understand why your choices cannot include smaller gears on your road bike.

On my very first brevet, a 200K, I rode an upright 40 lb mtn bike with knobby tires. If I can do a 200K brevet on an upright 40-lb mtn bike with knobby tires, I'm sure you can manage one with a heavy-ish touring bicycle.


BTW - I chose the mtn bike for my first 200K brevet because I had torn my rotator cuff just before the brevet, and couldn't put much weight on my left arm. My road bicycle would have required that I lean on that arm more than I would with my mtn bike. With my mtn bike I could ride sitting bolt upright with little or no weight on my left arm.

Oh, and .... I've seen people ride just about every sort of human-powered machine imaginable on brevets. Name it, and I've probably seen it out there ... racing bicycles, sport touring bicycles, touring bicycles, old bicycles, new bicycles, fixed gears, single speeds, mtn bikes, tandems, a triplet, recumbents, tandem recumbents, a push-me-pull-you recumbent ........... So pick whatever you feel comfortable with.

And also .... you can change the gearing on your road bicycle. I've got mine set up with mtn bike gearing. I can climb walls!! :D

And also .... you can change the gearing on your road bicycle. I've got mine set up with mtn bike gearing. I can climb walls!! :D


Heck yes!
I have a 48/34 compact crank mated to an 11-32 9spd MTN cassette.

Heck yes!
I have a 48/34 compact crank mated to an 11-32 9spd MTN cassette.


Mine's a 48/36/26 Shimano Deore and an 11-34 9spd XT cassette.

See this thread for some discussion on why the LHT is a fine bike for brevets and other long distance rides: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=510782

But as others have said, it's also pretty easy to change the gearing on your road bike. Probably the cheapest and easiest solution is to swap out the cassette for something like 13-27. That would most likely work with the rear derailleur you have now (I'm assuming it's a short cage). Anything bigger than 27t in the back may require a long cage rear derailleur. 34/27 is a low enough gear to get you over some pretty steep hills.

Mine's a 48/36/26 Shimano Deore and an 11-34 9spd XT cassette.

:thumb: Now THAT is gearing! (pretty close to what I run on my Expedition Tour bike)

Aaron:)

I spent some time discussing gear changes with the bike mechanic at the LBS. I can go to a 12/27 with the short cage rear derailleur, but I do not think that is enough change. Anything else will require making major changes, which I do not wish to do for one ride.
The LHT has the gearing for this climb. Besides, I know I need to slow my pace anyway to make the longer ride.
Thanks for the added information on riding the LHT on brevets.

I spent some time discussing gear changes with the bike mechanic at the LBS. I can go to a 12/27 with the short cage rear derailleur, but I do not think that is enough change. Anything else will require making major changes, which I do not wish to do for one ride.
The LHT has the gearing for this climb. Besides, I know I need to slow my pace anyway to make the longer ride.
Thanks for the added information on riding the LHT on brevets.

Harris Cycle used to have special Shimano cassettes just for this purpose, getting 29 and 30 tooth rear sprockets onto nicely spaced 9 and 10 speeds. There was a 13-29 called the Century, that would get you another four teeth on the back, for a 16% lower gear range. Or if you are using Campy, they have a 13-29 10 speed cassette in all the different grades.

I did send an e-mail to Harris Cycle about my needs. Did not get a response.
I do have Shimano components which may work with some of the gears Harris appears to have in their inventory.
One option put forward by the mechanic was to keep the short cage rear derailleur with a different cassette with something like a 32 tooth largest gear, but I would only be able to use the little ring. Actually, that would be OK, but once again, no response from Harris.
Too complicated, and could get expensive. I will ride the LHT.

Another option you can look at: walk on the 3d climb with a road bike. Riding LHT on a 200 km ride will be slower than a road bike because it is heavier. How much slower? Will the time lost walking a road bike on the 3d hill offset the time riding a slower bike over 200 km?

(Another option you can look at: walk on the 3d climb with a road bike. Riding LHT on a 200 km ride will be slower than a road bike because it is heavier. How much slower? Will the time lost walking a road bike on the 3d hill offset the time riding a slower bike over 200 km?)

Actually, I have definitely considered walking this hill. Once you come off the bike it will be about a mile of walking up this thing. I have read accounts of other riders that did just that for this one climb. Shoes may be a problem because of the road shoe cleats. However, I could take them off. Being barefoot in Arkansas is not a new concept.
In one account a rider previously stowed a pair of shoes for walking at the bottom of this hill. He put them on to walk it and then changed back when he was back down.
I am not the only rider having problems with this climb.

What kind of grade are we talking about with this climb? I also am running a 12-27 cassette and question if it will be enough for some long 8% + climbs I have in my future. Centuries / doubles this summer.

(What kind of grade are we talking about with this climb? I also am running a 12-27 cassette and question if it will be enough for some long 8% + climbs I have in my future. Centuries / doubles this summer)

I did not have anything to give me the % of grade. However, there are several switchbacks that would be in the 20% range during the turn. Making it through the switchbacks is my main concern. Also, I noticed on several of the switchbacks the pavement is very rough due to people pulling camping trailers up this climb to the state park on the top of this mountain. Dragging their hitches on these steep turns has cut some major creases in the asphalt. The state now limits trailers to 24' or less.
I climb several inclines in the 8% range with my 12/25 cassette. It is those steep switchbacks with the rough pavement that worry me.

Why not walk up the switchbacks then?

Last year, I rode up a series of switchbacks topping out at 21% on my 30lb randonneuse w/ about 5 lbs of kit on board. Admittedly, it has a low of somewhere around 20".

I wouldn't worry about using the LHT for a 200. In fact, I once rode a full series on a converted mountain bike. Not something I'd want to repeat, but it wasn't that bad. I still have great memories of those rides. When I think back, I don't remember the bike.

We often spend too much time obsessing over gear and forget "it's not about the bike."

while brevets are done on many different types of bikes, some are better than others.

i can only speak for the bikes i've ridden on brevets (ciocc 12.5, surly pacer, miyata 312) and tell you that while weight matters a little, it's not that much of a difference. comfort is the main thing, unless you want to set records out there.

my ciocc weighs about 21 lbs, and has 53x39-12x25 gearing - i've used this for a mountainous 400k, and another 400k as well as some shorter brevets. it's a good bike for the job, but without full fenders and a way to carry any serious gear, it doesn't work for a 600k. but i definitely finish faster on this bike, no doubt about it.

the pacer is what i use for the 600k's, and while it isn't as heavy as an LHT or a CrossCheck, it's about 25lbs unloaded. it has a 50x34 compact crank, with 12-27 gearing in the back. i finished a 600k on this bike, and felt like it was perfect for the job. the handlebars are high enough that comfort isn't really an issue, and it has full fenders and a rack to carry things.

the miyata 312 (an old 80's sport tourer) is pretty heavy (probably closer to the pacer in weight) - but the main difference with this bike was that it wasn't very stiff. at all. more like a noodle. makes for good comfort, but bad power-transfer. i don't really ride this one any more.

so now i use the ciocc for shorter/dry brevets, and the pacer for everything else. so this is my view into the "which bike" debate.

also check out this blog, i believe this rider does brevets on an LHT: http://surlyrando.blogspot.com

if anything, i think you should choose whichever bike, but train (and gear) so that you don't have to walk any hills. that could be a long 20 minutes (or more) walking up that hill.

It became evident I cannot make this climb on my road bike with the 50/34 double and 12/25 cassette. The climb is simply too steep for me to make with this bike. Therefore, my only other choice is my Surly LHT with its standard gears out of the box. Oh, that's terrible. I'm so sorry to hear that. I do hope things work out for you.

I'm so glad you're getting all this fine advice. If it doesn't work - perhaps will you consider attending brevets that are not so hilly.

Oh, that's terrible. I'm so sorry to hear that. I do hope things work out for you.

I'm so glad you're getting all this fine advice. If it doesn't work - perhaps will you consider attending brevets that are not so hilly.

My much younger and stronger riding brother has a friend from St. Louis, MO that is a cat 3 racer. He comes to Arkansas every two to three months to ride with my brother and to train on the climbs because he does not have climbs like he finds here in his home area.
I think maybe Mr. Cranium can help him so he does not need to make these trips.

You could always try traversing. I ride a fixed gear quite often with a gearing of 42x15, and come against grades like you are dealing with on occasion. Rather than walk, I just zig zag back and forth.

Rather than walk, I just zig zag back and forth.

In traffic? :eek:

In traffic? :eek:

My experience is roads that steep have no traffic.

I don't think zig-zagging works very well on switchbacks. The only trick I've found is to ride the outside of the turn. I was going to suggest that, but it actually does sound like there may be traffic on this road.

I don't think zig-zagging works very well on switchbacks. The only trick I've found is to ride the outside of the turn. I was going to suggest that, but it actually does sound like there may be traffic on this road.

Yes, there is some traffic on this road. I have been warned of that by some riders that have gone up this incline. The switchbacks are very tight and I was warned a bike coming down or a car coming down will be on you before you can get back over. It is hard to "cheat" to one side or the other.

I am going to practice this climb in about 3 weeks. I will take both bikes and try it with each. I decided it would be better to tackle this one before the ride than to wait.

You can get a SRAM 11-28 cassette to replace what you have. It works fine on a standard Shimano rear der., that's what I use. You may need to replace the chain if it is not long enough. To customize the cassette even further, buy a second Rival 12-25 cassette, swap the 11 and 12 off the 11/28 with the 12 and lockring on the 12/25 and add the 16 cog between the 15 and 17. Then you have a nice 12-28 (12,13,14,15,16,17,19,22,25,28) cassette. Rival cassettes can be found for as low as $70 online. I would rather go this route than ride a much heavier bike.

You can get a SRAM 11-28 cassette to replace what you have. It works fine on a standard Shimano rear der., that's what I use. You may need to replace the chain if it is not long enough. To customize the cassette even further, buy a second Rival 12-25 cassette, swap the 11 and 12 off the 11/28 with the 12 and lockring on the 12/25 and add the 16 cog between the 15 and 17. Then you have a nice 12-28 (12,13,14,15,16,17,19,22,25,28) cassette. Rival cassettes can be found for as low as $70 online. I would rather go this route than ride a much heavier bike.

I am working with a shop at this time that is considering just this gear set. Thank your very much for your knowledgeable input. Not sure if we are going this way, but I now it is a viable alternative.

Having just ridden a moderate, slightly hilly local 60 mile ride twice within the last few weeks on my road bike and my tour bike (trek 520), I would say it's a heck of a lot harder with a bike that weighs 15 pounds more. I'd get that 27+ cassette on there, try to keep all the gear pretty light, and ride the roadie.

Sheldon's site says you can use a 30 tooth cassette on a regular road derailleur.

If you have to ride the LHT, take the racks and fenders and all the other touring stuff off of it, and just use your pockets to carry stuff just like on the road bike.

By the way, with most bike shops, email is a less effective communication tool than a phone call.

Your from Little Rock so I guess that you are talking about MT Nebo? I about got sick when I read that the route takes in that one.
Been thinking about doing that ride if I have time, and am also debating gearing and what bike to bring. Since it is only a 200k ride, it makes sense to take a lighter bike with minimal gear. If you see a guy with a old eightys Team Fuji with a triple and a big mountain bike cluster on the back thats me.


Oh, and Richard Cranium is slang for d-ckhead. Really. So that explains his opinion.

Your from Little Rock so I guess that you are talking about MT Nebo? I about got sick when I read that the route takes in that one.
Been thinking about doing that ride if I have time, and am also debating gearing and what bike to bring. Since it is only a 200k ride, it makes sense to take a lighter bike with minimal gear. If you see a guy with a old eightys Team Fuji with a triple and a big mountain bike cluster on the back thats me.


Oh, and Richard Cranium is slang for d-ckhead. Really. So that explains his opinion.

You are correct. The brevet takes in Mt. Nebo. Mt. Magazine is at the start of the brevet, and is the highest peak in the state, but does not present the problems that is found in the Mt. Nebo climb.
I plan to be there and will probably be on the Orbea. It will be sporting a different cassette, but at this point I am not sure what gears it will have.

Have you ridden Mt. Nebo? I recently spoke with a pro that has ridden all over the world, including the TDF. He asked where I live. I told him Arkansas. He said, "Mt. Nebo".

[?Have you ridden Mt. Nebo?]

I have staggered up it. Actualy looking forwared to trying it again, because at that time I had only been riding for a year or so and had not gotten serious. Twenty pounds heavyer. Also, it was on my 72 Motobecane Grand Touring with a low of 38 front-26 rear. with toe straps. :eek:

I live in Eureka, and ride to Conway every once in a while to visit friends. Taking 7 through Boxely canyon with a loaded tourer is an amazing way to test brakes and then the ability to dry heave while trying to downshift from the lowest gear over and over again... And thats with a 24-32 low gear!!!

My first tour crossed Petit Jean mountain, and its simply amazing that I am still doing this. and that I am still mostly using toe straps. The upside to feeling constantly weak riding the Ozark and Boston mountains is pulling 139 mile days in the flatlands while touring. But that takes a while cause the legs are used to a grind, spin out, grind, spin out, grind...

Anyway, other than the Fuji, I may be on a gold univega Gran Turismo, a black miyata 1000, or possibly an 85 treck 560(If my training was good and feel strong and stupid).