Advocacy & Safety - Professions that require employees to own an automotive vehicle?

A lot of times when I try to get my friends into bicycling it's been tough, because their job requires them to have an automobile.

I know that you can use a bike to run errands, hangout with friends, and do everything else that you would outside of work. However, let's be honest: it's a lot harder to really get into biking if you can't do it every day for work.

I know that there are a lot of employers out there that either expect their employees to have cars to get from one place to another, or they expect their employee to be willing to work at various sites located accross the metro. Also, many small businesses, or independent contractors are using their automobile to conduct business.

How do we convince more people to bike to work when there are so many professions out there that limit this?

For example: I work at an IT firm that has clients located everywhere. While I work at the same client most of the time (which is very convenient), some of my coworkers work multiple clients and might end up at 1 site in 1 suburb on one day, and another site located on the other side of the metro the next day. They might even be asked to go back and forth between sites or transport equipment on the same day, using their vehicle. Larger companies can get around the by having a central office that everyone meets and plus company vehicles they can use, but many companies are unwilling to put in these kinds of costs and expect their employees to provide the vehicle and the extra time.

Example 2: I have a friend who is a lighting designer. He basically works a lot of short (1-2 week) projects at various sites to make an income.

Example 3: I have a friend who delivers art to various places. She is expected to use her car to have a safe place to store these very expensive paintings/things while they are being transported.

Example 4: I have a relative who works as a doctor. Not only is she expected to attend meetings in city 10 miles away from her clinic at times, but she is also on-call some weekends and is expected to be able to arrive at the hospital within minutes, no matter how snowy/icy the roads are.

I find that there are numerous professions where vehicles are expected to be used by employees. I suppose one way to still be able to bike to work is by refusing to work for these employers or by not working in professions that require a vehicle.

But this begs the questions:
-Are vehicles truly necessary for some professions? If so, which ones?
-What is the percentage of the working population that actually can reasonably bike to their jobs?

We have to keep this in mind when we are advocating that people stop plugging up freeways and start biking to work.

-Are vehicles truly necessary for some professions? If so, which ones?


NASCAR, et al.

For example: I work at an IT firm that has clients located everywhere. While I work at the same client most of the time (which is very convenient), some of my coworkers work multiple clients and might end up at 1 site in 1 suburb on one day, and another site located on the other side of the metro the next day. They might even be asked to go back and forth between sites or transport equipment on the same day, using their vehicle. Larger companies can get around the by having a central office that everyone meets and plus company vehicles they can use, but many companies are unwilling to put in these kinds of costs and expect their employees to provide the vehicle and the extra time.

For a job like this, bicycling is probably not viable.


Example 2: I have a friend who is a lighting designer. He basically works a lot of short (1-2 week) projects at various sites to make an income.

Example 3: I have a friend who delivers art to various places. She is expected to use her car to have a safe place to store these very expensive paintings/things while they are being transported.

Example 4: I have a relative who works as a doctor. Not only is she expected to attend meetings in city 10 miles away from her clinic at times, but she is also on-call some weekends and is expected to be able to arrive at the hospital within minutes, no matter how snowy/icy the roads are.

For example 2&4, the distances are probably short enough for someone dedicated enough to ride (especially in an urban area where cars are not that much faster). For #3, I'd give that to cars (though its probably more suited to brinks or something).

-Are vehicles truly necessary for some professions? If so, which ones? .
Read your own list.

My company (industrial construction) requires travel. I take a bike with me and park the truck once I get where I am going. Current job site is 428 miles from home and inaccessible by Amtrak or Greyhound, however once there I seldom drive the truck, at most once a week. Everywhere else I go including to the job site is by bicycle. I don't always manage to luck up and be able to do this though.

For car free/car light professions to work it is going to take a shift in the standard way of doing business. Because of the availability of the car and the pervasiveness of it on society, people seldom plan things with any consideration for someone who doesn't have access to a car. Seventy years ago you didn't have very many people going from place to place as part of their daily business, you went to work at one location and stayed there, you also quite often would work for the same company your entire life...something that is very difficult to do today.

Aaron:)

If you're in any profession related to education or consulting, you may have to travel to multiple schools or sites each day. For that, you'll need a car.

Selling real estate might be tough without a vehicle to take clients around to the homes for sale.

If you're in any profession related to education or consulting, you may have to travel to multiple schools or sites each day. For that, you'll need a car.

Consulting or sales also requires dress in a suit

Because there are many differences in a "job" and a trade or a profession. Each has its own requirements. Some need to haul tools and material at a profitable rate of efficiency. Some have tighter or even emergency scheduling time frames to be met. Nobody dies if a car free person is late for a job at Starbucks or the telemarketing center (not that this is necessarily what car free people do for a living). Nobody has a completion clause to meet at Circuit City. Some folks have careers that, in the real world, cannot be performed by bike.

Consulting or sales also requires dress in a suit

And?


Because there are many differences in a "job" and a trade or a profession. Each has its own requirements. Some need to haul tools and material at a profitable rate of efficiency. Some have tighter or even emergency scheduling time frames to be met. Nobody dies if a car free person is late for a job at Starbucks or the telemarketing center (not that this is necessarily what car free people do for a living). Nobody has a completion clause to meet at Circuit City. Some folks have careers that, in the real world, cannot be performed by bike.

My point above...the "real world" is built around the pervasiveness of the automobile. Change it and make it less necessary to have to have a car, it most likely is coming sooner or later, like it or not.

Aaron:)

Consulting or sales also requires dress in a suit

It also requires proper grammar, unless your comment is in reference to consultants for gay bars.

-Kurt

And?



My point above...the "real world" is built around the pervasiveness of the automobile. Change it and make it less necessary to have to have a car, it most likely is coming sooner or later, like it or not.

Aaron:)

Little Johnny falls from a tree in which he was playing, severe head injury. The best neurosurgeon around is at home eating dinner with his family. Does he drive to the hospital to arrive in a timely manner to do his "job"" or do they just rely on whoever is available?

What about the paramedics who came to treat and transport Johnny? Did they arrive in a motor vehicle stocked with the necessities to perform their service? Sure all "jobs" could be car free but all professions won't.

Little Johnny falls from a tree in which he was playing, severe head injury. The best neurosurgeon around is at home eating dinner with his family. Does he drive to the hospital to arrive in a timely manner to do his "job"" or do they just rely on whoever is available?

What about the paramedics who came to treat and transport Johnny? Did they arrive in a motor vehicle stocked with the necessities to perform their service? Sure all "jobs" could be car free but all professions won't.

I never said ALL JOBS could or should be made vehicle free. But there are plenty today that are not critical yet require a car. And FWIW my doctor lives within 6 blocks of the emergency room of the closest hospital and only 4 blocks from her office...imagine that!

Aaron:)

The question is posed wrong for this forum. We should be asking:

"What jobs CAN you commute to on a bike?"
or
"What excuses can be overcome in order to commute on a bike?"

Little Johnny falls from a tree in which he was playing, severe head injury. The best neurosurgeon around is at home eating dinner with his family. Does he drive to the hospital to arrive in a timely manner to do his "job"" or do they just rely on whoever is available?

What about the paramedics who came to treat and transport Johnny? Did they arrive in a motor vehicle stocked with the necessities to perform their service? Sure all "jobs" could be car free but all professions won't.

Oh and BTW in a smaller towns a bike is as fast as a car, in larger metro areas with heavy traffic/gridlock a bicycle is quite often faster. In London and many other locations first responders are on bicycles (http://www.ukemergency.co.uk/ambulance/ambcycles2.htm)...imagine THAT!:rolleyes:

Aaron:)

http://www.ukemergency.co.uk/ambulance/p1150755.jpg

But this begs the questions:
-Are vehicles truly necessary for some professions? If so, which ones?
-What is the percentage of the working population that actually can reasonably bike to their jobs?


1. Construction. Small businesses owners. Intercity sales jobs (a network of high speed trains could make this a bike-able thing).
2. Probably 50-80%. Now I'm discounting the "I live 80 billion miles away" excuse because that's an odd part of our culture. I'm only counting:
* My job requires I have an auto.
* I'm disabled.

One way to guess this might be to take traffic over all hours of the work day except the beginning, end, and lunch verse traffic at the beginning. If you need your car for your job then you'll be part of mid day traffic. If you don't then you'll only participate in rush hour and maybe lunch.

Unfortunately, the non working population throws it off. You could probably get rid of a lot of that by not counting any car with a kid in it.

Oh and BTW in a smaller towns a bike is as fast as a car, in larger metro areas with heavy traffic/gridlock a bicycle is quite often faster. In London and many other locations first responders are on bicycles (http://www.ukemergency.co.uk/ambulance/ambcycles2.htm)...imagine THAT!:rolleyes:

Aaron:)

http://www.ukemergency.co.uk/ambulance/p1150755.jpg

Wow, now that is a SEE ME setup!

Oh and BTW in a smaller towns a bike is as fast as a car, in larger metro areas with heavy traffic/gridlock a bicycle is quite often faster. In London and many other locations first responders are on bicycles (http://www.ukemergency.co.uk/ambulance/ambcycles2.htm)...imagine THAT!:rolleyes:

Aaron:)

http://www.ukemergency.co.uk/ambulance/p1150755.jpg

Cool ambulance.

Seems to me that an ebike would be perfect for this application. The paramedic could pedal around when not in a hurry, then kick in the juice when he needed to get to someone in a hurry.

Selling real estate might be tough without a vehicle to take clients around to the homes for sale.

That's a narrowminded, car-centric way of thinking... ;)

Check this out. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26439253) :)

Oh and BTW in a smaller towns a bike is as fast as a car, in larger metro areas with heavy traffic/gridlock a bicycle is quite often faster. In London and many other locations first responders are on bicycles (http://www.ukemergency.co.uk/ambulance/ambcycles2.htm)...imagine THAT!:rolleyes:

Aaron:)

http://www.ukemergency.co.uk/ambulance/p1150755.jpg

That is impressive.

I live in a small town and I do remodel work. I only drive my truck about once a month. In a bigger city where theft would be a bigger risk, I would make an enclosed trailer (I am thinking I may do that for rain anyway). When I have a very heavy load, I use my electric recumbent to haul my 8 foot long Bikes At Work trailer. We have steep hills here.
We need about an hour of exercise each day so if it takes longer to get to the job, it saves me from having to spend time after work getting my exercise. If the people who could bike, would, we could worry about jobs that require cars later and they would probably adapt by then.
About 30 years ago in Seattle, I used to work for temp agencies. They had a stupid rule that I had to have a car so I could get to a job they found for me. I told them I didn't have one and if they ever sent me on a job that I didn't arrive when scheduled, they could keep my pay for the day. I always got paid.

About 30 years ago in Seattle, I used to work for temp agencies. They had a stupid rule that I had to have a car so I could get to a job they found for me. I told them I didn't have one and if they ever sent me on a job that I didn't arrive when scheduled, they could keep my pay for the day. I always got paid.

I just signed a contract with a temp agency... the contract I signed just required "reliable transportation."

I am also a carpenter and the biggest problem I have is that transportation requirement. I have argued many times to no avail that on an island with good public transport and my bike that I can get anywhere in town by 7:30 am. I can carry all the tools I need for a job unless it needs a table saw and with a trailer that is not out of the question. The thing is that a contractor wants to use your truck or car as his own. When I was younger almost every boss I had used a company truck and I just rode my bike to the shop.

I am also a carpenter and the biggest problem I have is that transportation requirement. I have argued many times to no avail that on an island with good public transport and my bike that I can get anywhere in town by 7:30 am. I can carry all the tools I need for a job unless it needs a table saw and with a trailer that is not out of the question. The thing is that a contractor wants to use your truck or car as his own. When I was younger almost every boss I had used a company truck and I just rode my bike to the shop.

This is true on so many levels. Many, many companies are shifting costs to their workers. Our administrative assistants live within a cycling distance of our office, but are required to use their personal vehicle to go to the post office and the bank, which are further away from our office than their homes. They do get reimbursed for the bit of mileage they put on (big whoop) but it in no way justifies the total expense of having to maintain a car. Offices used to be in a downtown area where banks were within walking distances and usually the post office. In fact the postal service used to deliver and PICKUP the mail twice a day at in town businesses.

One of my neighbor's sons applied for a job at the local supermarket which is in walking distance of his house, he didn't get the job because they wanted him to have a car. In case he "might" be needed at a different store in the district. So someone that is going to work a part time job paying all of $7.50 and hour is going to be required to maintain an expensive vehicle for the convenience of the company.

Like I said earlier, it is going to take a shift in societal attitudes before living and working car free or car light can be widespread outside of a few select metropolitan areas.


Aaron:)

I work in outside sales. I drive between 60-100 miles a day seeing clients. Suit & tie is the dress code.

If I could get a steady job that I could ride to & that paid within $10,000 per year of what I make now, I would quit & take it in a heartbeat. The office is about 10 miles from home. I'd bike it for sure.

Selling real estate might be tough without a vehicle to take clients around to the homes for sale.

When we were house shopping our realtor rode with us or met us there. It was easier than moving two car sears to her vehicle.

We rode around the MUP in Westerville, OH this weekend and I noticed soe trashcans in the fields by the paths. I wondered how they haul the trash away, if they drive a company vehicle/gator/golf cart over or if they ride a bike pulling a bike trailer to haul the trash.

This is true on so many levels. Many, many companies are shifting costs to their workers. Our administrative assistants live within a cycling distance of our office, but are required to use their personal vehicle to go to the post office and the bank, which are further away from our office than their homes. They do get reimbursed for the bit of mileage they put on (big whoop) but it in no way justifies the total expense of having to maintain a car. Offices used to be in a downtown area where banks were within walking distances and usually the post office. In fact the postal service used to deliver and PICKUP the mail twice a day at in town businesses.

One of my neighbor's sons applied for a job at the local supermarket which is in walking distance of his house, he didn't get the job because they wanted him to have a car. In case he "might" be needed at a different store in the district. So someone that is going to work a part time job paying all of $7.50 and hour is going to be required to maintain an expensive vehicle for the convenience of the company.

Like I said earlier, it is going to take a shift in societal attitudes before living and working car free or car light can be widespread outside of a few select metropolitan areas.


Aaron:)

These are exactly the types of problems that I'm talking about. Society needs to make a big shift in their perception of the necessity of cars. That is rediculous that a supermarket that pays 7.50 per hour would require an employee to have a car. If this type of job requires a car, some crazy rationale could be made up for requiring a car at almost any job, particularly when workers are required to drive to the post office and things like that.

Someday, once we use almost all of our gas and the little that is available becomes really expensive, places will be forced to change their perception on the necessity of cars.

Where does this attitude change begin? Could laws be put in place that force employers not to discriminate against employees who don't own automobiles? I would love it if every business had to provide cars for their employees and if it were always a business expense. However, such a legislative move would cripple small businesses.

I just don't know how we can convince businesses to change their policies outside of forcing them to.

Totally cool. Real estate sales, or any sales, sometimes CAN be done on a bike.
dc

These are exactly the types of problems that I'm talking about. Society needs to make a big shift in their perception of the necessity of cars. That is rediculous that a supermarket that pays 7.50 per hour would require an employee to have a car. If this type of job requires a car, some crazy rationale could be made up for requiring a car at almost any job, particularly when workers are required to drive to the post office and things like that.

Someday, once we use almost all of our gas and the little that is available becomes really expensive, places will be forced to change their perception on the necessity of cars.

Where does this attitude change begin? Could laws be put in place that force employers not to discriminate against employees who don't own automobiles? I would love it if every business had to provide cars for their employees and if it were always a business expense. However, such a legislative move would cripple small businesses.

I just don't know how we can convince businesses to change their policies outside of forcing them to.

Forget about legislation...it will be the least effective means and in many cases would add to the burden of the smaller business owner. It takes social pressure on the businesses as well as hitting them in the pocket book. For years businesses have moved to the outskirts of town because that is where land was cheap and they could build huge stores with the huge zoning mandated parking lots. We can use zoning to make that scenario more difficult, but it will take business owners/shareholders to change the culture of their businesses. Eventually I think it may change but it will not be pretty.

Aaron:)

My work is making me visit 2 clients located accross the metro on Friday.
Needless to say, I'm pretty bummed out to have my arm twisted into using a car :(
99% of the time I'm just at one site and don't need a car for my job. This kind of stuff really bites. I guess that's what I get for being an IT contractor.

About 20 yrs ago I would make visits to a contractor about 3 miles away from my work. I made these trips on my bike and at the end of the month I would put in an expense claim for the mileage.

About 20 yrs ago I would make visits to a contractor about 3 miles away from my work. I made these trips on my bike and at the end of the month I would put in an expense claim for the mileage.

What were the "expenses" that you claimed? Did you indicate these were the "expenses" of operating a bicycle? Did your employer pay your claim?

I just signed a contract with a temp agency... the contract I signed just required "reliable transportation."

Reliable transportation could mean any form of transport to get you to your temp job assignments. It could mean walking on your own 2 legs, public transportation, your own motor vehicle and your bicycle. When most companies ask this questions or have you sign a contract or document that states you need reliable transportation they do not specify what mode of transportation that has to be.

I start with a new company on 04/20. The guy I interviewed with asked if I have reliable transportation. I said yes. He did not ask what that is and I did not specify. He will eventually find out one mode of my reliable transportation is my bicycle.

My work is making me visit 2 clients located accross the metro on Friday.
Needless to say, I'm pretty bummed out to have my arm twisted into using a car :(
99% of the time I'm just at one site and don't need a car for my job. This kind of stuff really bites. I guess that's what I get for being an IT contractor.

If you don't like your job OR don't like being required to have a car for your job then go find another one. You should also be careful. Some companies are firing people who ***** and moan about their jobs on the internet.

Stop whinning about it. You should feel lucky you have a job in this ****ty economy. Some of us are not so lucky. BTW, would you like some cheese with your whine?

What were the "expenses" that you claimed? Did you indicate these were the "expenses" of operating a bicycle? Did your employer pay your claim?

They were personal vehicle travel expense, something like 35c/km, the rate applied regardless of whether you were driving a Cadillac, Civic or a bicycle.

They were personal vehicle travel expense, something like 35c/km, the rate applied regardless of whether you were driving a Cadillac, Civic or a bicycle.

The "applied rate"? Applied by whom besides yourself? I suspect you didn't indicate on your claim sheet that you were applying that rate to bicycle riding.

Please correct me if I am wrong but I also suspect the claim form doesn't use the stilted language of "personal vehicle" and that if your employer was informed of your actions it would not be pleased to know that an employee is proud of scamming it for a few cents on travel expenses.

Anyone who needs to look professional in order to conduct business needs a car. In many cases, businessmen are judged by the car they drive. Individuals who are ignorant of the biking community would have close to no respect for a colleague who rode a bike to work.

Also, I personally will begin to sweat heavily just walking down the street on a warm day. Riding my bike usually dampens my shirt. At the very least, my face is covered in perspiration. I dont look too professional after just a 15 minute ride across town.

That's a narrowminded, car-centric way of thinking... ;)

Check this out. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26439253) :)

Let's check in with Kim now that gas prices are 50% of last summer. And the housing markets in the toilet.