Road Cycling - Are All 853 Frames Bricks?

I weighed a locally built (Australia) 58cm, lugless frame made from Reynolds 853R tubing, and it was an absolute anvil, weighing a whopping 2155g, or 4.75lbs (no fork, no cages, no bolts, nothin')!?!?! I was hoping to buy it but now I ain't gunna.

My 1990 freak of nature 58cm Raleigh 531c is only 1840g.

Is this normal? What do other 853 frames weigh? Why is 853 supposed to be so much better than 531?
Is it just stiffness and strength, 'coz it definitely ain't weight.

My 853 steel pig,fuji weighs 18.8 with pedals.

My Trek 5500 (carbon) weighs 17.8 lbs fully built. My Lemond Maillot Jaune w/full 853 weighs 18.5 with a very similar component set.

I don't feel it's heavy. Maybe it's the specific builder.

55/Rad

Wow! I assume both the above mentioned bikes have carbon forks with carbon steerers?

2155 grams is 4.75 pounds. That's the same weight as a 58cm Surly Pacer which is made from straight 4130 cro-moly tubing.

The big difference between 853 and 531 IMO is the way you can build the frame. I owned a 531 frame for a few years and it was not only fairly light but beautifully lugged and rode fantastic. With that being said, I'm sure there have been plenty of 531 frames produced that were tanks and didn't ride well.

the frame you looked at sounds like a pig compared to a high end 853 frame.

Wow! I assume both the above mentioned bikes have carbon forks with carbon steerers?
Yes,mine does.

Wow! I assume both the above mentioned bikes have carbon forks with carbon steerers?
The MJ has a carbon fork with a threaded alloy steerer. I could save another 6 or 8 ounces by switching to a full carbon fork, like the Ouzo Pro, along with a threadless stem. It's a big $ switch though - fork + headset + stem = beaucoup bucks.

55/Rad

The difference from 853 and 531 is quite alot. One 853 is a heat treated alloy. Along the same lines as True-Temper OXIII and OX Platinum the tubes actually get stronger at the weld joint, instead of weak because of added heat. The is a far less chance of the joints annealing with heat treated alloys that with other cro-mo tubes such as 531, or some Columbus and Deda.
Then there is of course the strength to weight ratio. Heat tubes used in bicycle frames have a far greater fatigue resistance than most other alloys. Yes there is a weight penalty, but the durability is well worth it.

Well here in England i can buy a 57cm custom Reynolds 853 tig frame that weighs in the region of 3.5 lbs without fork which compares quite favourably with other materials. So it's a complete mystery why the frame you weighed should be so heavy.

All 853 tubing is not the same. Straight gauge is going to be heavier than butted, double butted, etc. Is the frame lugged or welded? Lugged is heavier. Is the whole bike 853, or are the stays made from generic cro-mo tubing? Lots of reasons why a no name frame isn't always a bargain.

The frame isn't lugged. The downtube is chunky, and tear-drop shaped with a pointy edge running the whole way down the top of the tube. I don't know what the stays are but they look slighty bulky.

All 853 tubing is not the same. Straight gauge is going to be heavier than butted, double butted, etc. Is the frame lugged or welded? Lugged is heavier. Is the whole bike 853, or are the stays made from generic cro-mo tubing? Lots of reasons why a no name frame isn't always a bargain.

All Reynolds 853 tubing is double butted, not surprising since it's their premier tubeset. Your point concerning lugged frames being heavier than welded ones is correct but the weight difference is very small. Can't see how an 853 frame even if the stays were made from generic tubing could weigh anywhere near 5 lbs.

I know I've spoken to you about this topic offlist, Nev, but another thing to consider is that it doesn't take much steel to make a big difference in weight.

Take for example 2 Columbus tubes, both ø31.7, both 600mm long. The Zona would weigh ( according to the catalog ) 241, the same tube in Foco is 206. Whats the difference in wall thickness? Only 0.05 of a millimeter!! Multiply that over the entire bike and its easy to see where two virtually identical frames could end up 200g different. When you factor in construction technique, whether or not the BB is relieved in the centre, what dropouts they used, whether the head tube has reinforcing rings, did they use an oversize downtube, is anything aero section etc etc etc - you see my point. Two visually identical frames could easily be 300g/.66lb different.

As stated, it might be that only a few of the eight tubes/stays are 853, or maybe the frame just has an 853 sticker applied and is something else. It sounds like the frame is sized like your Raleigh (58cm), so check to see if the 531c sticker says butted tubes/stays/blades (All eleven) - If so, just keep riding the Raleigh and maybe just upgrade some of the components and install a carbon fork (Reynolds, of course).

Hmmm, I see. :)

I've heard that many 853 frames do not use 853 throughout the whole frame. My Co-Motion Espresso, though, is made entirely of 853 tubing and according to the specs is only 3.6 lbs., which is comparable to a titanium frame.

-Kevin

What is with you weight weenies and your obsession with ounces and grams? I have an 853 frame, but if I pick it up in the morning before heading to work, and it seems a bit light, I add bricks to some panniers (airbrakes) to up the weight! More power, baby, more power :)

Screw the bike,why dont you just ride the bricks?