Advocacy & Safety - Cycling on a 4-lane divided highway?

I was out for a Sunday bike ride today and I saw something which disturbed me. I'm in the Northern VA area, which is known to have quite a bit of traffic congestion and not always the most attentive or even kind motorists. My ride today took me onto the bike path that parallels the Prince William Parkway which is a 4-lane divided highway. The speed limit on this road is 55 mph, however on this particular stretch of the road people are known to drive 70 mph. Driving a car on this section of road requires attention and constant adjustments just to maneuver automobile traffic. Well, while riding the very nice bike path next to the road today I saw a cyclist riding on the highway, and took a lane. I can't imagine he was going much more than 45 mph if he was able to sustain that speed at all upgrade. To me, given the nature of the road and the speed differential between the biker and generally heavy traffic, the situation was dangerous.

My question to the masses is this..... Why would anyone choose to ride on a high speed highway in this manner when a nicely paved, wide, uncrowded bike path exists next to the road? While I understand the rights of cyclists, as a motorist familiar with this section of road I do not appreciate the reason for riding in the road. I feel it is not only dangerous to the biker, but puts motorists at danger as well.

Not bashing the biker, or seeking bashing back toward me. I'm just trying to understand the possible reasons for this person to ride where they did. I saw someone mangled in the ditch not too far from here last Fall and felt they were also riding on a dangerous road where speeds were too high.

Thoughts?

There is danger and there is the perception of danger. I don't know about traffic conditions in the US, altho' I've cycled in Toronto while visiting relatives and I rode on a similar highway there without any real trepidation.

In the UK, I've time trialled on the A1, the major non-motorway(expressway) highway in the country, which has a speed limit of 70mph and didn't feel threatened. Moving to the rightmost lane across from lane 1 to lane 3 to turn at the roundabout did take considerable care, tho'. On the other hand, in my pre-retirement commuting days, the right turn at a roundabout on a similar 4 lane dual-carriageway during the rush hour, esp. in winter, did raise the old pulse rate a bit, since it meant moving across 2 lanes to the far RH side of the second lane in heavy traffic. There were always drivers who would ease off to let me across, tho' they woudl have to slow down for the roundabout anyway.

45mph? I'd hope any cyclist would avoid a bike path if they plan on attaining those types of speeds.

Bike Paths are boring.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/10wheels/5th%20DSR/SouthHWY2004.jpg

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/10wheels/5th%20DSR/weridewtrucks.jpg

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/10wheels/5th%20DSR/wideload.jpg

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/10wheels/BridgeRideWBob026.jpg

Thoughts? Well, I can't provide them if you do not wish constructive criticism.

Sounds to me as if this fellow knew what he was doing - in which case, don't be a safety nanny and try to determine what is safe for him or not.

-Kurt

I can't imagine he was going much more than 45 mph if he was able to sustain that speed at all upgrade.

You've got a point; it sounds like he was a good 10 mph under the speed limit.

As long as the cyclist is highly visible he's probably pretty safe. When I need to take the lane on a high speed road, I notice overtaking motorists switching lanes and / or slowing down to my speed fairly early. My biggest concern is never the first vehicle, but the ones that may be tailgating right behind it. Still, I haven't had what I would consider a close call in this situation yet. If the bike path was really nice (and uncrowded) I probably would take it instead.

Dude can make 45 on an upgrade?

That's pretty badass. Wonder what he can do on a downgrade.

If he is on a controlled access freeway with a wide shoulder and he is taking the lane with even a hint of traffic, he is taunting charles darwin. Eventually chuck will tire of it and swat him down.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/10wheels/5th%20DSR/wideload.jpg

This pic bothers me. You have a two lane with virtually zero shoulder. If a car attempts a pass near the crest the bridge, bad things could happen, such as having that ginourmous truck appear coming the other way. If you gotta, you gotta, I 'spose, but if there are alternatives, why tempt fate?

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/10wheels/BridgeRideWBob026.jpg[/QUOTE]

This one bothers me as well. Fatties in racing kits should be dragged from their bikes and beaten. :)

I was out for a Sunday bike ride today and I saw something which disturbed me. I'm in the Northern VA area, which is known to have quite a bit of traffic congestion and not always the most attentive or even kind motorists. My ride today took me onto the bike path that parallels the Prince William Parkway which is a 4-lane divided highway. The speed limit on this road is 55 mph, however on this particular stretch of the road people are known to drive 70 mph. Driving a car on this section of road requires attention and constant adjustments just to maneuver automobile traffic. Well, while riding the very nice bike path next to the road today I saw a cyclist riding on the highway, and took a lane. I can't imagine he was going much more than 45 mph if he was able to sustain that speed at all upgrade. To me, given the nature of the road and the speed differential between the biker and generally heavy traffic, the situation was dangerous.

My question to the masses is this..... Why would anyone choose to ride on a high speed highway in this manner when a nicely paved, wide, uncrowded bike path exists next to the road? While I understand the rights of cyclists, as a motorist familiar with this section of road I do not appreciate the reason for riding in the road. I feel it is not only dangerous to the biker, but puts motorists at danger as well.

Not bashing the biker, or seeking bashing back toward me. I'm just trying to understand the possible reasons for this person to ride where they did. I saw someone mangled in the ditch not too far from here last Fall and felt they were also riding on a dangerous road where speeds were too high.

Thoughts?

I will get bashed for this BUT I agree that kina traffic and speeds is IMO a stuppid place to be for a person NO MATTER there skil level . There just asking for to get hit again IMHO . BUT to each his or her own its there funeral .

I will get bashed for this BUT I agree that kina traffic and speeds is IMO a stuppid place to be for a person NO MATTER there skil level . There just asking for to get hit again IMHO . BUT to each his or her own its there funeral .

Road bikes belong on the road, not on kiddie paths.

This pic bothers me. You have a two lane with virtually zero shoulder. If a car attempts a pass near the crest the bridge, bad things could happen, such as having that ginourmous truck appear coming the other way. If you gotta, you gotta, I 'spose, but if there are alternatives, why tempt fate?

"two lane with virtually zero shoulder" describes 80% of the roads I ride on - I consider it much safer that congested areas with turning cars vying for your right of way every 50 feet. Besides, when the truck appears, there's still a good 5-10 seconds for any passing car to complete the pass and re-enter the right lane.

A-holes who make judgements without sufficient information always irritate me and I live for the day some skinny dude tries to remove me from my bicycle for wearing the most comfortable gear I can afford:crash:

"two lane with virtually zero shoulder" describes 80% of the roads I ride on - I consider it much safer that congested areas with turning cars vying for your right of way every 50 feet. Besides, when the truck appears, there's still a good 5-10 seconds for any passing car to complete the pass and re-enter the right lane.

I don't deny that there aren't plenty of worse situations than this. I find myself in some from time to time as well. Just pointing out that this looked like one I'd avoid, given an alternative. And maybe that truck is actually one of the better things you could have approaching. It is slow and tall. This means you see it early and have time to react. A better example would have been some asshat doing 80 mph in a vette while dialing his cell phone.

I've probably ridden about 1,000 miles on the shoulder of large 4 lane divided highways. The research shows that its actually quite safe. I feel safer than I do on any MUP. The shoulders are typically 10 foot wide with a rumble strip between you and the motorists.

Since state DOT's often love saving money by building narrow bridges I sometimes find myself in the travel lane with 80 mph traffic for however long it takes me to cross the bridge. Its not comfortable but I do it. Most traffic change lanes but some do not because they lack the ability for cognitive thought.

So my question is this.......

#1. How much do you *really* know about bicycling? The guy was not going 45 mph so that makes me think that you know very little.

#2. Are you sure he was not on the shoulder? I've never heard of a 4 lane divided highway with 70 mph traffic without a shoulder. That does not seem safe for ANY road user.

I'm an idiot

fixed that one for you

One problem I have with bike paths is squirrels. You never know where they are going to dart out from. So you have to keep your speeds low. Taking the lane in 55mph is fine so long as that road has long line of sights and he has a powerful tail light, dinotte or brighter.

If he wasn't holding up traffic, then I would prefer that commuting option to the bike path.

I'm not trying to determine what was safe for him. He obviously thought it was safe. I would not put myself in that position given another safer choice.

Safety nanny? Nah. But are you a discussion board nanny?

I've probably ridden about 1,000 miles on the shoulder of large 4 lane divided highways. The research shows that its actually quite safe. I feel safer than I do on any MUP. The shoulders are typically 10 foot wide with a rumble strip between you and the motorists.

Since state DOT's often love saving money by building narrow bridges I sometimes find myself in the travel lane with 80 mph traffic for however long it takes me to cross the bridge. Its not comfortable but I do it. Most traffic change lanes but some do not because they lack the ability for cognitive thought.

So my question is this.......

#1. How much do you *really* know about bicycling? The guy was not going 45 mph so that makes me think that you know very little.

#2. Are you sure he was not on the shoulder? I've never heard of a 4 lane divided highway with 70 mph traffic without a shoulder. That does not seem safe for ANY road user.


(1) I don't pretend to know more about bicycling than you. I don't know you and I'd not likely come to a conclusion without knowing you. What I do know is how fast I was going. I know approximately the rate at which this fellow surpassed me. That makes me much more capable of judging his speed than you all the way across the Internet. Now, how much do you *really* know about how fast he was going. Not 45? Ok....

(2) There is a shoulder on this road. He was in the lane. I'm not sure why, but perhaps because the shoulder has some sand from a recent snow and ice event. I avoid sand, and I'm sure this guy did. Whether that played into his position on the road, I don't know.

Had to run out again (this time motoring), so I took a snapshot of the area in question. The bike path is also in the picture.

I thank everyone for their input to this discussion. Yes, even those who are a bit snitty! I can be that way myself. In the end, discussion is all in good fun, right? Anyway, given the view of the road and path feel free to contribute or change your mind. It should be noted, traffic was heavier this afternoon than this evening when the picture was taken.

I'm still stoked to have seen a "share the road" sign on I-5... I'm gonna have to take advantage of that one of these days.

I ride where I feel safest...and in most cases I feel safer on the road than on some bike path. I've been riding on the roads for my whole life, in many cases long before there were more than a handful of bike paths in the entire country. I can see the usefulness of bike paths for those who are not comfortable on the roads...so I am not anti bike path - until someone tries to force me to ride on the bike path because it's there. That is my concern with the OP and so many noob riders who are afraid of the roads...your wonder about those of us who ride on the roads tend to result in governments attempting to require us to ride on paths if they exist. I don't try to force you to use the roads, so please, be careful about sharing your thoughts concerning forcing me to use the paths in public...where those nasty politicians might hear you. ;)

fixed that one for you


thanks man!

btw, which post did you fix?

thanks man!

btw, which post did you fix?

see the little blue button to the right of the "originally posted by . . ." ?

click it.

(1) I don't pretend to know more about bicycling than you. I don't know you and I'd not likely come to a conclusion without knowing you. What I do know is how fast I was going. I know approximately the rate at which this fellow surpassed me. That makes me much more capable of judging his speed than you all the way across the Internet. Now, how much do you *really* know about how fast he was going. Not 45? Ok....

(2) There is a shoulder on this road. He was in the lane. I'm not sure why, but perhaps because the shoulder has some sand from a recent snow and ice event. I avoid sand, and I'm sure this guy did. Whether that played into his position on the road, I don't know.

It has nothing to do with knowing the law. It has to do with physics.

My question to the masses is this..... Why would anyone choose to ride on a high speed highway in this manner when a nicely paved, wide, uncrowded bike path exists next to the road? While I understand the rights of cyclists, as a motorist familiar with this section of road I do not appreciate the reason for riding in the road. I feel it is not only dangerous to the biker, but puts motorists at danger as well.


Not having been there, I'd just guess that the rider knew what he was doing if he was on the road, and was probably pretty familiar with the route.

There's one busy intersection in town (6 lanes crossing 5 lanes) and I regularly have to go through on a left turn. I merge through traffic to take the left with the car traffic every time. It's safe, its within my rights, and it saves me waiting through a light change taking the crosswalks.

Is it possible the highway rider needed to go somewhere where the path does not? Perhaps there was a left turn ahead or a store etc that just is not accessible from the path.

Is this a possibility?

Had to run out again (this time motoring), so I took a snapshot of the area in question. The bike path is also in the picture.

I thank everyone for their input to this discussion. Yes, even those who are a bit snitty! I can be that way myself. In the end, discussion is all in good fun, right? Anyway, given the view of the road and path feel free to contribute or change your mind. It should be noted, traffic was heavier this afternoon than this evening when the picture was taken.

Good pic, Thanks for posting it.

Maybe it was one of those fully faired recumbent velomobile thingies - but probably not.

It has nothing to do with knowing the law. It has to do with physics.

I am not sure I mentioned the law. Regardless, if I misjudged and misreported his speed so be it. To me, for where he was and the conditions around him, going slower would only make it more of a safety issue since he was in the lane. I guess my concern isn't his speed as much as it is the speed differential between him and what is coming upon him. If traffic were lighter than it was at that time, I'd probably not think much of it. But, with a line of cars high tailing it down the highway with a trunk full of groceries trying to get home, then that's my concern. I know when I'm driving my car behind a big SUV it blocks quite a bit of the sight line. If I were to change lanes at the wrong time, without knowing/seeing a biker was going slow in a highway lane, I'd have to spend a lot of money in therapy. I'd rather not do that.

I'd not ride in the road where I describe. Then again, I'm a recreational biker and sometimes commuter. I stick to roads I feel safe on and paths. I tend to go out of my way to ride a safer route if at all possible. But, that's just me. You can call it an experience issue if it applies. I'd rather just say it is comfort.

Is it possible the highway rider needed to go somewhere where the path does not? Perhaps there was a left turn ahead or a store etc that just is not accessible from the path.

Is this a possibility?


I suppose it could be. I didn't follow him or talk with him. I do know there is an intersection further up the road that is very difficult to navigate on a bike but by the time I got there he was gone. There's loads of shopping there, but the path also goes to a crosswalk crossing a busier road but with slower traffic. Maybe he just wanted to not have to deal with the crosswalk but it was still a few miles away. It is a tough intersection because cars making a right turn just don't stop or look at the path crossing. They are only worried about other cars. Imagine that!

I have seen people doing things on bicycles that I wouldn't do. On the other hand, I have been wrong about that in the past. For example, near me there are two parallel roads that are 1/2 mile apart. One has nice shoulders and a 55mph speed limit and is a Pennsylvania designated bike route. The other is a road with a 35mph speed limit and no shoulder. Now I realize that it's safer to ride on the road with the higher speed limit. I also used to think that riding on an interstate was forbidden until I moved to Utah and found out that there really was no other way to get some places by bike. One of my favorite rides out there was on an interstate.
Our main drag in town has a "bike lane" next to it. It takes 20 minutes to negotiate a stretch of that road on the bike lane, and about 5 minutes on the road. The bike lane also puts you in a very bad position at every driveway and intersection. There are even stop signs at private driveways.

A-holes who make judgements without sufficient information always irritate me and I live for the day some skinny dude tries to remove me from my bicycle for wearing the most comfortable gear I can afford:crash:

+1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 to that.

Amen, brother.

-Kurt

With the sign there warning of a stop light I'd probably be in the road too... especially if I was going at any kind of speed.

Bike paths lose whatever speed and convenience factor they may have as soon as they have to cross a street at grade level... it's not safe to cross without stopping and making sure you're not about to get flattened, even if the cyclist has the right of way.

That said... if the cyclist was going anywhere even close to the speed you said then it's probably best for everyone that he IS on the street... do you really want a cyclist blowing past you at 30mph+ on a path??? It's not only scary, but it's against the law. (Speed limit on shared pathways in the state of Colorado is 15 mph)

I'd not ride in the road where I describe. Then again, I'm a recreational biker and sometimes commuter. I stick to roads I feel safe on and paths. I tend to go out of my way to ride a safer route if at all possible. But, that's just me. You can call it an experience issue if it applies. I'd rather just say it is comfort.

Nothin' wrong with that. Welcome to the board mr. p.

It is a tough intersection because cars making a right turn just don't stop or look at the path crossing.

You just answered your question about why the cyclist was on the road.

I am not sure I mentioned the law. Regardless, if I misjudged and misreported his speed so be it. To me, for where he was and the conditions around him, going slower would only make it more of a safety issue since he was in the lane. I guess my concern isn't his speed as much as it is the speed differential between him and what is coming upon him. If traffic were lighter than it was at that time, I'd probably not think much of it. But, with a line of cars high tailing it down the highway with a trunk full of groceries trying to get home, then that's my concern. I know when I'm driving my car behind a big SUV it blocks quite a bit of the sight line. If I were to change lanes at the wrong time, without knowing/seeing a biker was going slow in a highway lane, I'd have to spend a lot of money in therapy. I'd rather not do that.

I'd not ride in the road where I describe. Then again, I'm a recreational biker and sometimes commuter. I stick to roads I feel safe on and paths. I tend to go out of my way to ride a safer route if at all possible. But, that's just me. You can call it an experience issue if it applies. I'd rather just say it is comfort.

I *hate* that attitude. Ever heard of the 4 second rule? If a cat was sitting in the lane I would not hit it let alone a cyclist.

Learn how to drive. EVERYONE, including many cyclists have this notion that if they drive the speed limit that if they kill someone its really the bicyclists, childs etc fault.

I talk to people everyday who say, "I wish they did not ride in the road...if I hit one I would have to live with that the rest of my life when they were the ones who chose to bicycle there!"

urgh

Slow Down

That car in front of you....you should be 4 seconds behind it. Yes, you will look weird and some people will honk but its the safest way to operate that lethal weapon your sitting in.

I *hate* that attitude. Ever heard of the 4 second rule? If a cat was sitting in the lane I would not hit it let alone a cyclist.

Learn how to drive. EVERYONE, including many cyclists have this notion that if they drive the speed limit that if they kill someone its really the bicyclists, childs etc fault.

I talk to people everyday who say, "I wish they did not ride in the road...if I hit one I would have to live with that the rest of my life when they were the ones who chose to bicycle there!"

urgh

Slow Down

That car in front of you....you should be 4 seconds behind it. Yes, you will look weird and some people will honk but its the safest way to operate that lethal weapon your sitting in.

You are making an assumption about my driving habits that's not really warranted from the post. Let me clarify the point I was making. I recall an automobile safety video when I was a child where a motorcycle was obscured from a driver's vision because someone was offering up a stick of gum. The motorcycle was obscured, at an appropriate distance, by the stick of gum. Now, even if I am 4 seconds behind a large SUV, the line of vision from my car can be obscured for some distance depending upon road conditions. That said, I could make a LEGAL and SAFE road lane change (within the speed limit) and come upon someone who was obscured from my vision very quickly if there is a large speed differential. My point was that under proper driving procedures, I could still come upon someone quickly because of speed differential. The same would be true if a cat were sitting in the road and I were not able to see it. Would I try to stop? Of course, in both cases. Are the risks high because of the speed differential? Yes. Both for the biker and the cat. :-)

Being seen is key. Surely everyone knows that or there wouldn't be such a market for lights, vests, etc. Time is key when you are not seen. The greater the speed differential the less time.

For the record, I don't try to hit bikes with my car and I ALWAYS give a biker plenty of room. Ugh!!!

A-holes who make judgements without sufficient information always irritate me and I live for the day some skinny dude tries to remove me from my bicycle for wearing the most comfortable gear I can afford:crash:

take it easy, red.

Folks on BF, and A&S in particular really need to lighten up and get a sense of humor.

BTW, I'm probably fatter than you (curse these winter bike layoffs) and I do wear cycling shorts. Can't get myself to put on a silly looking jersey though. I'll stick with a normal colored one with my reflective vest.

Guess I'd rather look like a fred than racer boy!

If you drive within the speed limit and keep a large buffer zone in front, it is virtually impossible to hit anything, cyclists included. The problem is too many drivers overspeed and tailgate. I believe this does cause safety issues for cyclists, and is why many avoid certain roads and situations.

If you drive within the speed limit and keep a large buffer zone in front, it is virtually impossible to hit anything, cyclists included. The problem is too many drivers overspeed and tailgate. I believe this does cause safety issues for cyclists, and is why many avoid certain roads and situations.

I'd generally agree. I also think folks not in the DC area can't appreciate what the roads are like in this area, much less the drivers.

That said, here's a reason why even ideal traffic conditions can still mean you might not be seen. I know drivers are often to blame for the way they drive, but forward blind spots exist in all automobiles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver_visibility

I think that tailgating is an issue. Speeding, not so much, unless it is extremely excessive.

I think both of these pale in comparison to the real culprit......people driving with their heads up their arses.

PAY ATTENTION!!!!!!

I would like to say I am never guilty of DWHUMA, but, I am. And I believe most everyone here is at times. This is why I get annoyed by the take the lane zealots who say screw those cages.

I'd rather assume that cage pilots are going to do dumb things and do what I can to avoid becoming their victims.

It is a two sided problem. We need to be more aware while driving our 3000 lb battering rams and we need to do what we can as cyclists to avoid them when practicable.

We do have to share the road. And riding with the attitude of screw'em, I'm a vehicle too, isn't going to help when you are under their wheels.

Ride safe and assume that every cage you see is piloted by a moron, because a fair number are. If this means taking a longer route or one of those sissy MUPs on occasion, so be it.

I guess my concern isn't his speed as much as it is the speed differential between him and what is coming upon him.

I'm guessing that was his concern too. You see, if he was going 45mph, that would be going 10mph less than those on the road, and about 35 to 45 mph faster than those on the MUP. (It's a multi use path, it was not marked as a bike lane.) As the slowest thing on the road people coming upon him will tend to see him and move around him if he is acting in a reliable manner. I assume he wasn't veering left and right, and was holding his lane. Now MUPs are a great place to find things moving in the least reliable manner possible, at much slower speeds than you can imagine, and sometimes stopped entirely. That is what he was afraid of hitting. If you are really moving on a bike, a child with training wheels in front of you is much more scary than a truck behind you. And, from your description, he was really moving.

I'm guessing that was his concern too. You see, if he was going 45mph, that would be going 10mph less than those on the road, and about 35 to 45 mph faster than those on the MUP. (It's a multi use path, it was not marked as a bike lane.) As the slowest thing on the road people coming upon him will tend to see him and move around him if he is acting in a reliable manner. I assume he wasn't veering left and right, and was holding his lane. Now MUPs are a great place to find things moving in the least reliable manner possible, at much slower speeds than you can imagine, and sometimes stopped entirely. That is what he was afraid of hitting. If you are really moving on a bike, a child with training wheels in front of you is much more scary than a truck behind you. And, from your description, he was really moving.

Yes, he was really moving. Thank you for the most enlightening post of the evening. He thought it was safer on the road because of the slower traffic on the path and not the faster traffic on the highway. I understand, even though I doubt I'd make the same decision. Of course, I'd not travel at the rate he was either!

45mph? I'd hope any cyclist would avoid a bike path if they plan on attaining those types of speeds.


I'm guessing that was his concern too. You see, if he was going 45mph, that would be going 10mph less than those on the road, and about 35 to 45 mph faster than those on the MUP. (It's a multi use path, it was not marked as a bike lane.) As the slowest thing on the road people coming upon him will tend to see him and move around him if he is acting in a reliable manner. I assume he wasn't veering left and right, and was holding his lane. Now MUPs are a great place to find things moving in the least reliable manner possible, at much slower speeds than you can imagine, and sometimes stopped entirely. That is what he was afraid of hitting. If you are really moving on a bike, a child with training wheels in front of you is much more scary than a truck behind you. And, from your description, he was really moving.

+1 This is what I was implying with my previous post. I'm surprised anyone would want a 45 mph vehicle of any sort on a recreational path. I don't know how long the cyclist was in your field of vision, but I'm guessing he blew by you and was out range within a minute. He probably takes the lane when he's moving along at 45 and hits the shoulder on inclines or level ground when his speed drops below 20 or so. This is how I would most likely handle a road like that.

(snip) To me, for where he was and the conditions around him, going slower would only make it more of a safety issue since he was in the lane. I guess my concern isn't his speed as much as it is the speed differential between him and what is coming upon him. If traffic were lighter than it was at that time, I'd probably not think much of it. But, with a line of cars high tailing it down the highway with a trunk full of groceries trying to get home, then that's my concern.

Your perception of the danger of overtaking traffic (even on this road) excessive. I travel on similar roads regularly. When I am on them I am not one bit concerned about motorists hitting me. It has not always been this way. I used to spend a lot of time watching out for them in a mirror, but it turned out to be such a waste of time I discarded it. The behavior of motorists on such highways can be observed here: http://www.cyclistview.com/overtaking/index.htm


I know when I'm driving my car behind a big SUV it blocks quite a bit of the sight line. If I were to change lanes at the wrong time, without knowing/seeing a biker was going slow in a highway lane, I'd have to spend a lot of money in therapy. I'd rather not do that.

I think that this concern is excessive as well. But if you leave a little more space between your car and the vehicle you are following, you will increase your reaction time for any unseen object in the lane- a cyclist, a deer, a couch or even a grandfather clock. (<-- Kidding. I am just making a silly reference to another forum thread.)

In tens of thousands of encounters with motorists on high-speed multi-lane roads like the one you took a picture of, this situation that you fear has never happened to me. My experiences have convinced my that the likely-hood of such an event to be vanishingly small. I am probably in greater peril of injury in my shower than while taking the lane.


I'd not ride in the road where I describe. Then again, I'm a recreational biker and sometimes commuter. I stick to roads I feel safe on and paths. I tend to go out of my way to ride a safer route if at all possible. But, that's just me. You can call it an experience issue if it applies. I'd rather just say it is comfort.

When cycling, the hazards that I need to spend my attention on are in front of me, not behind me. Potholes, crossing traffic and the like. There are far fewer of these on the arterials than on a side-path or residential street. In my opinion, the highway is the safer route.

The behavior of motorists on such highways can be observed here: http://www.cyclistview.com/overtaking/index.htm

That study was really interesting, confirmed what I already felt . I wish they could summarize it in a simpler format though, it's a bit overwhelming to follow. Ill send them an email.

I think that tailgating is an issue. Speeding, not so much, unless it is extremely excessive.

I think both of these pale in comparison to the real culprit......people driving with their heads up their arses.

PAY ATTENTION!!!!!!

I would like to say I am never guilty of DWHUMA, but, I am. And I believe most everyone here is at times. This is why I get annoyed by the take the lane zealots who say screw those cages.

I'd rather assume that cage pilots are going to do dumb things and do what I can to avoid becoming their victims.

It is a two sided problem. We need to be more aware while driving our 3000 lb battering rams and we need to do what we can as cyclists to avoid them when practicable.

We do have to share the road. And riding with the attitude of screw'em, I'm a vehicle too, isn't going to help when you are under their wheels.

Ride safe and assume that every cage you see is piloted by a moron, because a fair number are. If this means taking a longer route or one of those sissy MUPs on occasion, so be it.


When I take the lane "screw them" is really the last thing I'm thinking. I'm thinking that *I know* that the lane is too narrow to share but a motorist might not and try to squeeze past. When taking the lane I make it more obvious. If anything it leads to far less conflicts than more conflicts.

The last 5 bicyclists injured in my city were.........

-Drunk guy riding at night without lights who turned in front of a car
-sidewalk rider hit in crosswalk
-sidewalk rider hit in crosswalk
-sidewalk rider hit in crosswalk
-guy cowering to the far right in an 11 foot lane, was hit by a mirror, knocked from his bicycle and landed in the ditch.

Its the same thing all over the United States. To each his own but the law allows bicyclists to take the lane FOR A REASON. It was not pushed and passed by the "screw cagers" movement of 1957.

Trying to "stay out of the way" like sidewalk riders or the guys who fear taking an assertive position is the real danger.

Had to run out again (this time motoring), so I took a snapshot of the area in question. The bike path is also in the picture.

I thank everyone for their input to this discussion. Yes, even those who are a bit snitty! I can be that way myself. In the end, discussion is all in good fun, right? Anyway, given the view of the road and path feel free to contribute or change your mind. It should be noted, traffic was heavier this afternoon than this evening when the picture was taken.

Frankly, it's amazing me how so many posters in this thread say absolutely nothing about that pic and that situation. "Where I ride, the MUP will get you killed, blah blah blah..." Come on, we're not interested in your MUP, we're looking at a desolate path -- that doesn't cross driveways or streets -- next to a high-speed suburban arterial.

IMO, in that pic, it's only mildly moronic to ride on that highway... on the shoulder. It's absolutely stupid to take a lane on that road.

But, hey, it's probably some jackhole who's going to claim that "it's my right to take the lane", and will expect that it will magically save them when some driver sneezes while texting at 70 mph and blasts them into the grass.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd rather simply come home safely than force my family to deal with my bloodied remains while making attempts to prosecute the driver in court.

^^^ Your assumption of what will happen to a cyclist who rides these types of roads doesn't seem to match the experiences of those who actually do.