"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - Would you race with a broken spoke?

Broke a spoke on the third climb up river falls and the race had no wheel truck. The wheel has 32 spokes. Would yall have pulled the spoke out and kept racing or called it a day?

I grabbed another wheel and did a few more laps on my own, but dnf'ed.

Knowingly? No fraking way.

Grabbed a wheel from where?

No way in the world. Not ever

Edited - I would drop out if I broke one during.

Am I missing something? 32 spoke conventionally spoked wheel; you break one spoke,and its in true enough to clear the pads with the QR open.

In that scenario my thought process is do I risk the time of the wheel change, or go with with the wheel with the broken spoke.

DNF is not in my thought process at this point.

Are you guys saying that the risk of the wheel catastrophically fialing is sufficient it poses a safety risk?

How did you do, my man? Like that little climb?

Gross negligence is a conscious and voluntary disregard of the need to use reasonable care, which is likely to cause foreseeable grave injury or harm to persons, property, or both. It is conduct that is extreme when compared with ordinary Negligence (http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Negligence), which is a mere failure to exercise reasonable care. Ordinary negligence and gross negligence differ in degree of inattention, while both differ from willful and wanton conduct, which is conduct that is reasonably considered to cause injury. This distinction is important, since contributory negligence—a lack of care by the plaintiff that combines with the defendant's conduct to cause the plaintiff's injury and completely bar his or her action—is not a defense to willful and wanton conduct but is a defense to gross negligence. In addition, a finding of willful and wanton misconduct usually supports a recovery of Punitive Damages (http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Punitive+Damages), whereas gross negligence does not.

^ Ok, and applying facts to the law, how much more likely is it for a conventionally spoked, 32 spoke wheel, doen one spoke to suffer catastrophic failure, and thereby cause an accident than the same wheel with all 32 spokes intact.

If you did break another spoke, at most its likely to quit rolling without rubbing the stays.

I've broken a single spoke ridden home,and nevr had a problem. I've seen lots of people break spokes and keep riding and never had a problem.

I would go as far as wager dollars to doughnuts tha the risk of a catastrophic accident is higer with various esoteric wheels (such as Mavics with CF spokes) than it is with a conventionally spoked wheel down one spoke.

31 spokes vs 32 spokes, not a big deal unless you're a clydesdale.

I'd get the spoke out so it's not damaging anything, open the brake caliper and keep goin.

id probaly try to keep going.....at least until I eventually broke another spoke.....which is bound to happen with the un balanced tension.

I broke the spoke at the top of the climb the fourth time up (I thought it was the third, but my wattage spikes say differently). It just happened to be at the start/finish line so I walked over to my car and picked up my spare wheel--they didn't have a wheel truck.

I was fine up the climbs. They weren't long enough to hurt me and I was staying at the front, 4 or 5 back. The 3s split up into two groups about 15 seconds or so apart after all the rest were whittled down. My file said I hadn't done any real hard work, so I was really bummed that I had to dnf. I was feeling good. :(

There will be other races.

Why would you bother risking it unless it was a race that you were doing really well in and it would effect your upgrading or something?

There are plenty of things that could be an issue...

I mean... any races where this would have an effect, the rider would have a team car and swap a wheel.

Why would you bother risking it ...


I repeat again anybody have any data, hell any anecdotes, to support a claim that there is substantial risk of catastrophic failure riding a 32 spoke wheel down one spoke?

And the answer to why you would press on, 1) try to win the race, 2) finish what you started.

I'm willing to be educated here, but in my experience I have just not found one broke spoke on a conventional wheel to be the harbinger of immediate catastraphocic failure.

My god roadies are effing pansies.

If you stopped racing in a mtb race because of one broken spoke you would get laughed straight out of the parking lot afterwards.

We are talking about one spoke, right?

Am I missing something? 32 spoke conventionally spoked wheel; you break one spoke,and its in true enough to clear the pads with the QR open.

In that scenario my thought process is do I risk the time of the wheel change, or go with with the wheel with the broken spoke.

DNF is not in my thought process at this point.

Are you guys saying that the risk of the wheel catastrophically fialing is sufficient it poses a safety risk?

+1 They're a bunch of wussies. Open the brake pads & keep going. I've done it before, no big deal. I wouldn't even stop pedaling if the spoke stayed in place and wasn't causing any problems. I've usually run 3x 32 spoke wheels, so the broken spoke is often held in place by the others.

In my former brief racing career I was doing a small (ie. tiny) road race out of Floyd, NM with zero support vehicles. I ended up in the "lead group" of myself and a husband-wife pair from Roswell with about 40 miles to go, and I broke a spoke. I opened up the QR and the wheel just barely cleared without rubbing. The couple spent the rest of the race trying to psych me out by saying things like "wow, that wheel sure is wobbling" and "that must really be slowing you down". I kept laughing it off, then spanked them both in the sprint. Oh, the good old days.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I have finished a race on a 31 hole spoked wheel. I sat in and took it easy for the last 10-12 flat miles, but I finished on it with no problem.

Hell I had to ride a set of 24 hole wheels on a group ride one time and blew a spoke. I opened the calipers and ride the 20 miles back to the car(by myself) on 23 spokes. And I'm not a small guy by any means. I wouldn't have done it with 23 spokes in a race because it was pretty out of true. 31 spokes, if it rolled decently, I'd attempt to keep going.

I agree with merlin, Homebrew, ZeCanon: what a bunch of wimps. It's a 32 spoke wheel! Wrap the broken spoke around another if it's clanging around, otherwise just open the QR and keep going. Honestly. The whole POINT of 32 spoke wheels is that they are still rideable if you break one.

If 1 spoke is broke then 5 more are weak.

It's silly that people are willing to risk others safety by using a machine that isn't in it's best maintainable condition just so they can finish.

I can' imagine a 32 spoked wheel would be much of a problem negative one spoke, but you also have to consider how hard you have to push your equipment to win a race. But I still say 31 spokes would be enough for about anything.

You most likely would have been just fine. Breaking 1 spoke on a 32 wheel doesn't do much, and most likely the wheel would still be true enough to run.

That said I would have DNF'd right then and there.....but that's because I look for any excuse to stop.

If 1 spoke is broke then 5 more are weak.

It's silly that people are willing to risk others safety by using a machine that isn't in it's best maintainable condition just so they can finish.

Is it silly that people race Crash 5? Because last time I checked, half the people out there are risks to other people's safety, even with a fully functional bike. People's experience have shown that a broken spoke in a 32 spoke wheel is a small risk, and if you're really worried about small risks hurting you, why even race? By your argument, people should just stop racing when they get tired, since bike handling becomes harder and people might get hurt more.

Would I be willing to risk a 2% increase in my chances of getting hurt to finish a race? Why not, I do it all the time.

In general there seems to be an overall lack of mechanical common sense. It exists in all areas of these bike threads. If something is not 100% perfect per manufacturers specs, then the world will come to an end. Look at the alarmist posts in threads about using a 130 mm hub in a 126 mm frame ! :crash:

Is it silly that people race Crash 5? Because last time I checked, half the people out there are risks to other people's safety, even with a fully functional bike.

We already know about all the risks you mentioned here, before we start the race, and could calculate them before we started the race.

I'd rather be able to have faith that my competitors are not trying to race bikes that have failing components however, wouldn't you?

I'd rather be able to have faith that my competitors are not trying to race bikes that have failing components however, wouldn't you?

Depends. If a guy next to me broke a spoke, I'd say "bummer for you" but I wouldn't expect him to drop out. If his chainstay breaks, then time to call it a day.

I have 64 of them. Do you think I'd even notice if one broke? If it wasn't slapping around, I probably wouldn't even know. Pulling off and twisting it around a neighboring spoke would be enough for me.

Of course, I say this because I build my own wheels, so I'm familiar with their health.

My god roadies are effing pansies.

If you stopped racing in a mtb race because of one broken spoke you would get laughed straight out of the parking lot afterwards.Like the guy who got 2 flats with no spare tubes, and he finished the race on the rims?
That was such an awesome tale.

A teammate last year broke his non-drive side crankarm 10 miles into a 100 mile single speed race, and finished in 5th I think. He pedaled one footed on the flats, ran up the hills, and coasted the downhills.

IMO - and until I get paid to do this - I have no reason to race in a pack on a wheel that will "likely" not fail - even though it has begun to fail already. Someone said "one broken means 5 weak spokes" is a good point.

I get the mechanical odds that says a 31 spoked wheel will probably sustain itself, and I'd ride one home for as many miles as it took - but not shoulder to shoulder pushing the wheel to its limit. But crap - a 32 spoke wheel should probably never have popped the spoke in the first place, so now what?

Wussy? Mebbe. But I can guarantee this. I'll never take someone else (or myself) out because of it. It's my level of risk management.

We already know about all the risks you mentioned here, before we start the race, and could calculate them before we started the race.

I'd rather be able to have faith that my competitors are not trying to race bikes that have failing components however, wouldn't you?

Of course I'd like to think that I'm perfectly safe, but it's always the case that I'm not.

Besides, if a spoke breaks, that doesn't mean the wheel has "failed". There are 32 spokes, so there is some buffer before the wheel becomes a real hazard. If 5 spokes popped off, I would mind if someone was still using that wheel, but one spoke is just not that big a threat.

32 spoke wheel - I broke a spoke in a wheel like that one year and didn't fix it. Rode it for a while, eventually just stopped riding it and rode other wheels.

I've had a broken spoke in my mountain bike wheel (rear, 32H, drive side) for many years, it's true enough so the tire doesn't rub, the spoke is a weird 15g/1.8mm size, so I haven't bothered replacing it. True a mtb tire cushions a lot better than a road wheel and the 26" wheel is smaller/stronger, but still, it's so unnecessary I haven't bothered with fixing it.

I did a Prospect Park on 16/20 spoke DV46Ts, broke a *front* spoke maybe 3-4 laps into a 9 lap race. After some very wary laps at the back I realized the wheel wasn't going to break, and I started contemplating not stopping. I moved up and tried a few fast descents (50 mph) and decided the wheel was acceptable. I got 6th in the race in a field sprint.

If the wheel feels bad, I'd stop. If the wheel seems okay, I'd keep going.

cdr

How long before the finish?

If a mile or so to the finish I might go for it, especially if I was in a small group and they all knew what was what. If 10 or more miles out or in a large group there is no way in the world. All kinds of bad things might happen (though unlikely), but you really don't want to be that guy if it does. Everyone will remember that for a LONG time. And you will have to race with them over and over again.

My friend won a race after he broke a spoke on is Reynolds DV46 rear wheel. I think those are 20h

How long before the finish?

If a mile or so to the finish I might go for it, especially if I was in a small group and they all knew what was what. If 10 or more miles out or in a large group there is no way in the world. All kinds of bad things might happen (though unlikely), but you really don't want to be that guy if it does. Everyone will remember that for a LONG time. And you will have to race with them over and over again.

Like what ?

If you flatted,and couldn't get a wheel woudl you keep riding?

One of the primary advantages asserted for tubulars is the ability to ride flat, and certainly many pros have finished, even won races on flat tubulars.

Is the risk of riding on 31 spokes, higher than riding a flat?

^ Ok, and applying facts to the law, how much more likely is it for a conventionally spoked, 32 spoke wheel, doen one spoke to suffer catastrophic failure, and thereby cause an accident than the same wheel with all 32 spokes intact.

If you did break another spoke, at most its likely to quit rolling without rubbing the stays.

I've broken a single spoke ridden home,and nevr had a problem. I've seen lots of people break spokes and keep riding and never had a problem.

I would go as far as wager dollars to doughnuts tha the risk of a catastrophic accident is higer with various esoteric wheels (such as Mavics with CF spokes) than it is with a conventionally spoked wheel down one spoke.

You are an attorney(?) If a plaintiff came to you with injuries due to a wheel failure in such a case, and you could show that the rider knowingly put that wheel into service, wouldn't you argue gross negligence?

I'm not an attorney, but having been involved in a couple of torts I learned the hard way that facts had little to with the claims; it all came down to the plantiff's attorney swaying the jury to "preponderance" of allegations.

BTW - I run 24 a spoke wheel, so I was thinking in those terms.

If you flatted,and couldn't get a wheel woudl you keep riding?

One of the primary advantages asserted for tubulars is the ability to ride flat, and certainly many pros have finished, even won races on flat tubulars.

Is the risk of riding on 31 spokes, higher than riding a flat?

First - riding? Yes. Racing? No, not on a flat

Second - The races I see, the first thing that happens is a hand goes up for the guy getting paid to replace their wheel to give them a new one on a flat (and undoubtedly on broken spokes). I've also seen a number of crashes and injuries when they roll out in corners on flats - assuming tubulars since most teams ride those.

My point is - since my financial well being doesn't create a positive in the risk-reward, it's just not worth it.

Ultimately, I think I agree with you that the chances of catastrophe on a 31-spoker may be pretty slim, but they would have to be significantly higher than on the properly tensioned 32 spoke that didn't break. Cause lets face it, if the 32 spoke popped a spoke, something is wrong anyway.

On my commuter I have a 34 spoked front wheel. About 3000km ago I broke 1 spoke, and 2000km later another broke 90 degrees away from the original. Sure, on climbs they kind of sound like they are grinding against each other or something, but it still works just fine and faithfully with a bit of compensation truing. No problems here.

I understand the risks involved. I think you are all correct... that a 32 spoke wheel -1 won't "catastrophically" fail.

The issue is, why? I mean... Merlin I see your point about finishing what you started etc... but I'm saying, you're one step closer to a redundancy failure.

For example. Piston aircraft use 2 magnetos (to provide spark to the plugs) this is so that the engine can operate independent of the electrical system (unlike a car). So, if one of your magnetos fails... then the engine can still work perfectly fine on the other magneto... but would you continue the flight? Especially if there was no real necessity?

My point is that I guess there are times when I would ride down a spoke or with an equipment failure and that there are times I wouldn't. If I'm in a points race and doing well in the race (ie potentially about to get some points) hell yes, I'm staying in. If its a cat 5 race where I am only accomplishing "finishing the race" I might slow up and ride near the back. But if its just a race... why risk failing the wheel or causing harm to someone else? Just sit up.

My point is - since my financial well being doesn't create a positive in the risk-reward, it's just not worth it.

Yes.

I would keep going, unless it's banging around and scratching my frame.

River falls has a couple hard turns right after the downhill. Probably was better I didn't push it. I'll consider it on a flat course.

My god roadies are effing pansies.

If you stopped racing in a mtb race because of one broken spoke you would get laughed straight out of the parking lot afterwards.

my god, mtn bikers are effin idiots.

my god, mtn bikers are effin idiots.

'cross guys aren't much smarter. this happened 5 minutes into a cross race. I finished right inside the top 10. Every time I hit the brakes I heard a "ting ting ting". To be fair, if it had failed, I would have only taken myself out. After the races I did this weekend I have an even stronger disdain the guys who cause wrecks *in packs*.
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If 1 spoke is broke then 5 more are weak.

It's silly that people are willing to risk others safety by using a machine that isn't in it's best maintainable condition just so they can finish.

What an utterly absurd statement. Let me state this again, since it seems like half of the people don't get it: A 32-spoke wheel with one broken spoke is not a failure risk. A wheel that is suddenly 31 spokes is equally as safe as it was with 32. And if you do happen to break another, now you're riding a still perfectly safe 30 spoke wheel. Your 32-spoke wheel is not going to collapse because a spoke breaks! Unless, of course, your wheels were built at Toys 'R' Us or something, but I'm going to hazard a guess that anyone here who is racing on 32-spoke wheels is on high-quality wheels with proper spoke tension.

And it's worth stating, again, that the entire point of riding 32 or 36 spoke wheels is that a broken spoke is not a big deal - it makes essentially no difference in the strength of the wheel, AND the wheel stays true enough that it can continue to be ridden. If we were talking about a low spoke-count wheel, then yes, it would be a bad idea to continue, but chances are that the rim will rub on the brakes with the QR open anyway, so it's pretty much a non-issue in this case.

'cross guys aren't much smarter. this happened 5 minutes into a cross race. I finished right inside the top 10. Every time I hit the brakes I heard a "ting ting ting". To be fair, if it had failed, I would have only taken myself out. After the races I did this weekend I have an even stronger disdain the guys who cause wrecks *in packs*.
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as you well know, that kind of "ting, ting, ting" is not a welcome sound in a crowded pack of racers.

Broke a spoke on the third climb up river falls and the race had no wheel truck. The wheel has 32 spokes. Would yall have pulled the spoke out and kept racing or called it a day?

I grabbed another wheel and did a few more laps on my own, but dnf'ed.

No, I wouldn't.

I understand the risks involved. I think you are all correct... that a 32 spoke wheel -1 won't "catastrophically" fail.

The issue is, why? I mean... Merlin I see your point about finishing what you started etc... but I'm saying, you're one step closer to a redundancy failure.

For example. Piston aircraft use 2 magnetos (to provide spark to the plugs) this is so that the engine can operate independent of the electrical system (unlike a car). So, if one of your magnetos fails... then the engine can still work perfectly fine on the other magneto... but would you continue the flight? Especially if there was no real necessity?

My point is that I guess there are times when I would ride down a spoke or with an equipment failure and that there are times I wouldn't. If I'm in a points race and doing well in the race (ie potentially about to get some points) hell yes, I'm staying in. If its a cat 5 race where I am only accomplishing "finishing the race" I might slow up and ride near the back. But if its just a race... why risk failing the wheel or causing harm to someone else? Just sit up.

Lamest analogy of the year ? What if the plane has 32 magnetos, and 1 fails, leaving you with 31 good ones ?

So, if one of your magnetos fails... then the engine can still work perfectly fine on the other magneto... but would you continue the flight? Especially if there was no real necessity?


Perfectly? Nope. There is a performance degradation, which is what you depend on to check mags at run-up (via RPM drop).

Lamest analogy of the year ? What if the plane has 32 magnetos, and 1 fails, leaving you with 31 good ones ?

Well, I would also point out that the stakes involved when flying an aircraft are slightly higher than they are in your typical crit or RR.