Living Car Free - Some motorists remain steadfastly hostile

Most drivers where I live are pretty tolerant of bicyclists; however, not everyone plays nice. In particular, I've noticed that drivers of pickups, especially very large, diesel-driven pickups, seem to go out of their way to be somewhat hostile to bicyclists. Just today, two such drivers, completely independently of one another, gave me very dirty looks and flipped me off, which I did nothing to provoke, at two different intersections, and made a point of "peeling out" at the green lights for no particular reason, leaving me to breathe the extra exhaust, even though I was pretty much just minding my own business. Any idea as to why, besides the obvious one about teeny packages?

Mind you, dirty looks, nasty sign language and a cloud of dust is not much compared to what I once endured elsewhere in the US, but still, I have to wonder: what causes some people to be hostile just because you're not using the same machine as them?

People on bicycles are an annoying constant reminder that driving a huge truck is an irresponsible choice for humanity.

People on bicycles are an annoying constant reminder that driving a huge truck is an irresponsible choice for humanity.

I seriously doubt they put that much thought into it. I don't personally know a single person who gives any thought to the responsibility of their vehicle choice. They just care about how new it is, how big it is, and what other people will think of it. As for the harassment, I have no idea why they do it. Most of the times I'm honked at, yelled at, or otherwise bothered, I'm either in the bike lane or on the shoulder, no where near the path of the ones harassing me. I think their brains are so feeble they actually think they're "teaching us a lesson". What they don't realize is that they're really just making us think they have a tiny mind and/or private parts.

As was explained tome at a light one morning, "Get a Real Mans vehicle sissy!"

From a fella who would get winded walking up a flight of stairs...!

It went from there, didin't get physical but he did refuse my offer to 'test his manhood' against a sissy bicyclist.

Safety/Ms Manners types flame away....

Most drivers where I live are pretty tolerant of bicyclists; however, not everyone plays nice. In particular, I've noticed that drivers of pickups, especially very large, diesel-driven pickups, seem to go out of their way to be somewhat hostile to bicyclists. Just today, two such drivers, completely independently of one another, gave me very dirty looks and flipped me off, which I did nothing to provoke, at two different intersections, and made a point of "peeling out" at the green lights for no particular reason, leaving me to breathe the extra exhaust, even though I was pretty much just minding my own business. Any idea as to why, besides the obvious one about teeny packages?

Mind you, dirty looks, nasty sign language and a cloud of dust is not much compared to what I once endured elsewhere in the US, but still, I have to wonder: what causes some people to be hostile just because you're not using the same machine as them?

It's a consequence of piloting over 3,000lbs of ego enhancing steel and forever realizing that it's compensation for not being a good driver to begin with.

There is no true formula for pointing out agressive drivers. It doesn't matter if they have a truck or a Prius. Jerks are jerks even if they are on a bicycle. I have had baggy short wearing cyclists blast off a curb on the wrong side of the and almost knock me over as I try to track stand at a crosswalk. But that doesn't pose as great a threat to us personally so we forget about it.

I don't know why some people have to yell, flip a finger or stomp on the gas but I do know the bigger the vehicle the more we notice it. I have seen Pick up drivers wave our whole club accross an intersection even if they got there first only to be glaired at by someone in an almost identical truck three blocks later. Yesterday I had a sub compact pull up next to me and at the very last minute pull ahead and make a right turn into a parking lot without bothering to signal.

But maybe more of those agressive types do buy pick ups I don't know. But I do know that for me at least they are not nearly as dangerous as a car full of teen age drivers in anything. Yelling is the least of your worries. Flying objects are far more likely.

Fingers don't scare me....... ........CELL PHONES do! ;)

As was explained tome at a light one morning, "Get a Real Mans vehicle sissy!"
.

You should have told them that horses are too expense to feed and board.

I have that exact same problem with diesels down here only worse most likely. The Irony though is that most seem to be Dodges and a few Chevys but not many Ford drivers do that at all. Plus most if not all that are aggressive seem to be modded. I have yet to be honked at by any form of hybrid. Normally it's an SUV or pickup. I guess it is like when I harassed when driving my ford focus wagon around. When in a car all of the people whom have run into me (in my car thankfully) drove large SUV's or pickups so that kind of tells you something too. I have been in 4 accidents but I have yet to cause a single one much less get a ticket. Of those 2 cars were totaled.

I think they honk or peg it just cause they so stupid they aren't capable of driving a larger vechicle so they are honking to warn you that they are almost out of control barreling down the road.

What annoys me the most is when they are going past you and they peg it. I have really gotten startled to the point of falling. It is deafening for a moment with some of the truck's modded exhausts. That is when I wish a cop were around.

Just today, two such drivers, completely independently of one another, gave me very dirty looks and flipped me off, which I did nothing to provoke, at two different intersections...Any idea as to why...?

Maybe it's just coincidence. I'm guessing I get flipped off about once a month on the average. The Poisson distribution says I can expect to have occasional memorable days when I get flipped off more than once. That would occur on the average of once every six years.

There are times I don't understand things at all. Last week when riding down a quiet road a few of us were out in the lane heading north. After a few minutes a car came passed up heading south and rolled down the window and yelled for us to get off the ******* road. We were hardly taking up more room than another car might have but it seems to have bothered this person to no end.

Then there are other days when cars will honk and wave encouragement just because they see more than 3 riders in a group.

I haven't really had too many people honk or yell at me. but I remember one time while riding to work towards the end of September last year that some cars and trucks would go over in the other lane while going around me, and some would just blast by without moving an inch. I once had a semi driver pull all the way over as he went past, but then was honked at 3 times because my bike was taking up so much room on the edge of the road that a guy in a PT cruiser couldn't get around me...even though the highway was practically empty at the time. And then there are the one that race through the heavy fog, with no lights on, that don't care who they run over in order to get to their destination.....

Automobiles make people brave in their actions because they can just drive off and possibly never see their victim(s) again. People that are walking, biking, or driving in the opposite direction tend to be their top targets. They are just passing their neg. vibes off to other people and a popular/easy way to pass these vibes off is through road rage. Chances are you didn't do much or anything wrong. Their anger started elsewhere(they got fired/cheated on/beat up/property stolen/etc,) You can dish it back/to someone else or you can kill their neg. energy with a smile! I look at them and brush my shoulders off because life's too short to care!

Whenever someone in a big truck floors it by me to "make a point", I just laugh to myself because they spent $2 to do it (made more sense last summer when gas was >$4.00 a gallon).:thumb:

Most anyone driving a modded pickup truck, especially a 3/4 ton diesel that belches black smoke from the chip he's put in it, and/or is jacked up, is a redneck in my book. Frequently less educated, blue collar and right-wing. Doesn't believe in global warming and does believe in his right to drive whatever he damn well pleases. Often has a W-04 or American flag sticker on the back window.

He probably thinks his vehicle choice and/or way of life is threatened, not only by cyclists, but by Prius drivers, vegans, intellectuals, etc. Probably a nice, hardworking guy most of the time but he had a bad day and your transportation choice represents the opposite extreme of his - and it matters to him for some reason. Some guys never grow up. Is this a stereotype? Sure, but based in reality.

Most anyone driving a modded pickup truck, especially a 3/4 ton diesel that belches black smoke from the chip he's put in it, and/or is jacked up, is a redneck in my book. Frequently less educated, blue collar and right-wing. Doesn't believe in global warming and does believe in his right to drive whatever he damn well pleases. Often has a W-04 or American flag sticker on the back window.

He probably thinks his vehicle choice and/or way of life is threatened, not only by cyclists, but by Prius drivers, vegans, intellectuals, etc. Probably a nice, hardworking guy most of the time but he had a bad day and your transportation choice represents the opposite extreme of his - and it matters to him for some reason. Some guys never grow up. Is this a stereotype? Sure, but based in reality.


I think you have a valid point. Personal attitudes often do dictate something about the vehicle you prefer. Not always maybe but often enough to allow stereotypes. I have talked with quite a few off road 4X4 people, the kind that do the Rubikon or Moab several times a year. Most of them view Prius drivers as rather skinny geeks with long necks, a big adams apple and a pocket protector. Most Prius owners I have met don't look like that but the stereotype sticks.

The truth is people have different perspectives on how they live thier life and what they should be allowed to do with the money they make. Personal rights. And how people react to a challenge to that perceived right to do what you want with money you make causes a conflict with some people.

The person mentioned in the first example may have a life style based on a belief based on personal accomplishment. That belief can most often lead to agressive defensive behavior when challenged. The second person may be more passive agressive. Instead of yelling or showing disreguard for the other person by stomping on the gas they vote for bills adding extra taxes to the first persons choices trying to force them into a different lifestyle.

This agression isn't just between diesel truck drivers and cyclists. Even cyclists have a strained relationship between each other. All you have to do is watch a group of road bike riders when they see a casual comfort bike rider or a utility bike rider in the distance going in their direction. The whole group will bick up the pace so that when the reach the slower riders they pass and a speed that will have the maximum efect. In other words the effect to affirm that one form of cycling is more efficient than another. It simply isn't as in your face as a yell from a passing car.

Fingers don't scare me....... ........CELL PHONES do! ;)

:thumb:
Yep if you see the finger at least you know they SAW you, which is more than you can say for most cellphone yappers.

Aaron:)

I just figure that for every cager who gives me trouble, there's thousands who didin't. I'm not shy to yell back or return the "salute", however.

Most drivers where I live are pretty tolerant of bicyclists; however, not everyone plays nice. In particular, I've noticed that drivers of pickups, especially very large, diesel-driven pickups, seem to go out of their way to be somewhat hostile to everyone.

Fixed. ;)

(I'll stand by the "everyone" edit, too, speaking as a driver of a lil' riceburner hatchback..)

Just today, two such drivers, completely independently of one another, gave me very dirty looks and flipped me off, which I did nothing to provoke, at two different intersections, and made a point of "peeling out" at the green lights for no particular reason, leaving me to breathe the extra exhaust, even though I was pretty much just minding my own business. Any idea as to why, besides the obvious one about teeny packages?
I was riding to work last week on the inside lane of a 4-lane road. It was pretty quiet but suddenly I noticed there was a pack of vehicles all passing me. One of them got stuck behind me for a good distance... and as I heard him accelerate sharply I looked up expecting some kind of reaction. I saw the finger go up and thought it was predictable, but then noticed he was giving me the thumbs up...

Odd... but I have had very few motorists behave badly in the last year or so. Everyone seems polite, even when I'm riding in dense traffic.

I've heard that in the South it happens more, but in my area, I think last year's cycling boom helped motorists realize they have to deal with cyclists and recently some new laws (including a 5-foot distance being require when pass a bicycle...) have been introduced here.

This aggression isn't just between diesel truck drivers and cyclists. Even cyclists have a strained relationship between each other. All you have to do is watch a group of road bike riders when they see a casual comfort bike rider or a utility bike rider in the distance going in their direction. The whole group will pick up the pace so that when they reach the slower riders they pass at a speed that will have the maximum effect. In other words the effect to affirm that one form of cycling is more efficient than another. It simply isn't as in your face as a yell from a passing car.

I think this is just ego, not actual aggression; even the most condescending roadie doesn't glare, give the finger, or yell at the comfort rider to get on the sidewalk. They're still cyclists.

I have to admit, though, that I'm not above this kind of behavior myself. I have an all-steel touring bike with fat tires, fenders and panniers. I wear "street clothes" while riding. I consider myself a competent, but not great, rider. Sometimes Lycra-clad roadies pass me. If they're cool, and most of them are, I just nod or smile. If the roadies smirk as they go by, though, which does happen on occasion, I do what I can to remove that smirk. Sometimes they're just really good cyclists on fast bikes, and they're gone, their smirk intact. On other occasions, I can keep up with them or even pass them back, which tends to annoy them, and I kind of enjoy that. I don't do it because I resent roadies; I kind of like road bikes, and admire the athleticism of the best riders. I do it simply because I'm kind of competitive, and because I firmly believe that if you're dressed and equipped like Lance, you should, at the very least, be able to drop a middle aged guy hauling beer in his panniers, preferably without condescension.

[QUOTE=Robert Foster;8528343

This agression isn't just between diesel truck drivers and cyclists. Even cyclists have a strained relationship between each other. All you have to do is watch a group of road bike riders when they see a casual comfort bike rider or a utility bike rider in the distance going in their direction. The whole group will bick up the pace so that when the reach the slower riders they pass and a speed that will have the maximum efect. In other words the effect to affirm that one form of cycling is more efficient than another. It simply isn't as in your face as a yell from a passing car.[/QUOTE]
The effect is really pronounced when they see a recumbent. I think you want to pass a slower cyclist quickly if it is more dangerous to be side by side, like in traffic or on a narrow path with oncoming traffic.

Maybe its just cause I am in LA, but the biggest ******* drivers who have threatened my safety on a regular basis, are Prius owners.

Overall, I think we get what we expect. I had a couple of run ins with Prii, and they were jerks. I expect them to be jerks and they are. Is it their fault or mine?

I don't think their choice of vehicle particularly matters, the idiots and the insecure can be found in every model of vehicle ever made. I think it is more likely that they perceived some reason to see a cyclist as a direct affront to their lifestyle. The insecurity thing.

I don't think their choice of vehicle particularly matters, the idiots and the insecure can be found in every model of vehicle ever made. I think it is more likely that they perceived some reason to see a cyclist as a direct affront to their lifestyle. The insecurity thing.

Good post:thumb:

In an old post it was said that disabled people, or vehicles with a handicapped placard, were the poorest drivers when it came to being safe around cyclists. Any thoughts? Maybe, because they are have to drive just about everywhere due to handicap, they are the most car dependent people in our society. The most car dependent = the worst drivers around cyclists? That would also make people from the suburbs the worst around cyclists. What kinda cars to suburanites drive? Pruises, SUVs, minivans.... you name it!

This is not my opinion just exploring a line of thought.

In an old post it was said that disabled people, or vehicles with a handicapped placard, were the poorest drivers when it came to being safe around cyclists. Any thoughts? Maybe, because they are have to drive just about everywhere due to handicap, they are the most car dependent people in our society. The most car dependent = the worst drivers around cyclists? That would also make people from the suburbs the worst around cyclists. What kinda cars to suburanites drive? Pruises, SUVs, minivans.... you name it!

This is not my opinion just exploring a line of thought.

Well around here the cyclists have to share facilities with wheel chair users on the subway. We have some of the same impediments. I notice a few wheel chair users are jerks and more are very friendly but most are just trying to get through their day like everyone else.

That would also make people from the suburbs the worst around cyclists. What kinda cars to suburanites drive? Pruises, SUVs, minivans....

In my city the suburbs have MUP's and everything you could ever need is within a mile of your home, in the city you have to drive everywhere because there is nothing but houses.

M Any idea as to why, besides the obvious one about teeny packages?

Mind you, dirty looks, nasty sign language and a cloud of dust is not much compared to what I once endured elsewhere in the US, but still, I have to wonder: what causes some people to be hostile just because you're not using the same machine as them?

No... you cannot ignore it. They plain and simple, feel inadequate, because they have a really small penis.

No other explanation necessary.

I agree the big trucks are the worst for almost running me over, but that isn't the worse of my encounters. I have issues with the lazy women, who usually have lots of kids in the very old, gas hogging, SUV. Usually a Suburban or something like that. I find it odd, because being a woman, I don't get how you can afford to drive something like that with that many kids! And on top of that threaten to run me over in front of them, because I am riding my bike on the white line when there is NO shoulder. Huh!? People amaze me how little they value life.

It's funny how many cyclists believe drivers of a specific vehicle make or style are more hostile. I'm a member of the club. In the individual vehicle category I find that drivers of the larger (not the little Wrangler things) Jeep vehicles to be the worst.
I even have a theory about the Jeep types. Since Jeeps are marketed as vehicles that will give the owner an outdoorsy, athletic lifestyle, Jeep drivers feel their purchased lifestyle projection threatened by an actual outdoor athletic vehicle (also a purchased lifestyle projection, I know, but a more authentic one).
The most hostile drivers on the road overall though are school bus drivers, hands down.

No... you cannot ignore it. They plain and simple, feel inadequate, because they have a really small penis.

No other explanation necessary.
Now hold on there, some of the obnoxious drivers of large SUVs are women. If I notice a gender bias it would be biased toward males being more obnoxious but I've had some run-ins with females. The female situations that I remember is where they try to push me out of a crosswalk or on a cross street where I have the right of way.

cross link
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=522400

I agree the big trucks are the worst for almost running me over, but that isn't the worse of my encounters. I have issues with the lazy women, who usually have lots of kids in the very old, gas hogging, SUV. Usually a Suburban or something like that. I find it odd, because being a woman, I don't get how you can afford to drive something like that with that many kids! And on top of that threaten to run me over in front of them, because I am riding my bike on the white line when there is NO shoulder. Huh!? People amaze me how little they value life.

I work around a lot of mothers of young children, and I agree that some of them tend to be inattentive, somewhat sloppy drivers. I don't believe it's hostility, though; it's just that they're very distracted, and because, for reasons I can't discern, motherhood turns formerly normal women into self-involved freaks who are incapable of acknowledging anyone's needs but their own and those of their children. (Not all women, mind you, just some.)

I work around a lot of mothers of young children, and I agree that some of them tend to be inattentive, somewhat sloppy drivers. I don't believe it's hostility, though; it's just that they're very distracted, and because, for reasons I can't discern, motherhood turns formerly normal women into self-involved freaks who are incapable of acknowledging anyone's needs but their own and those of their children. (Not all women, mind you, just some.)

That's exactly the kind of woman who plowed into my first car, except that she was profusely apologetic. She was coming home from a Christmas party, and her little kid was gagging (or something) on a candy cane.

Fortunately, she hit my right rear, far away from my seat; also fortunately, as my car spun clockwise and slid to the left, the left rear wheel hit the turn lane island and bounced me counter-clockwise and to the right, which kept me from getting nailed on my left side by an oncoming conversion van. :eek:

Most drivers where I live are pretty tolerant of bicyclists; however, not everyone plays nice. In particular, I've noticed that drivers of pickups, especially very large, diesel-driven pickups, seem to go out of their way to be somewhat hostile to bicyclists. Just today, two such drivers, completely independently of one another, gave me very dirty looks and flipped me off, which I did nothing to provoke, at two different intersections, and made a point of "peeling out" at the green lights for no particular reason, leaving me to breathe the extra exhaust, even though I was pretty much just minding my own business. Any idea as to why, besides the obvious one about teeny packages?

Mind you, dirty looks, nasty sign language and a cloud of dust is not much compared to what I once endured elsewhere in the US, but still, I have to wonder: what causes some people to be hostile just because you're not using the same machine as them?

there's a bunch of Psych involved with this.

check this book out: http://www.amazon.com/Killing-Psychological-Cost-Learning-Society/dp/0316330116

I'm a combat vet, as is my dad, and both grandfathers.

the thing about "killing", is that it is very difficult to disembowel your children with a dull antler
as compared to neutralizing a target from 30,000 ft.

i know its a gross analogy

what is needed to commit this act is (according to the book)
1. psychological
2. social
3. and physical distancing

the conditioning goes like this: I am better than they are, they are substandard (insert derogatory slander), and of course, a howitzer at a mile away is much easier to commit the act as compared to being face to face, bayonet to bayonet.

so with cars, it goes like this:

physical distancing: anonymity behind steel and glass
social distancing: motorists are higher up on the social scale (again... insert derogatory statement).
i.e. my 90 year old anglo, WWII veteran grandfather told me, in Ventura, Ca. the only people you see on bicycles are illegal immigrants who can't afford a car.
psychological distancing: motorist believes something along the lines that bikes have no right to be on the road.

its something along those lines.

most commonly, if you ever ask a person to describe a traffic situation, they will state the vehicle make, color, etc..

i.e. a white Escalade ran over a Bob Cat.

the reality of that statement is, that the motorist, mr. or miss(es) so and so, drove their white Escalade over a Bob Cat.

it has to do with those 3 major factors of
Psychological, Physical and Social Distancing

its easier, physically, psychologically, and socially, to run something over with a 4,000lb vehicle as it would be to stab it and stomp it to death.

so people do this to various degrees in all sorts of situations.

from saying we eat Pork, vs Pig, beef vs cow, fowl vs chicken
we make patties vs discernible anatomical parts

and of course there is also intoxication, emotional state of mind, pre-occupation, etc...

a degree of mass anonymity plays in too.
i.e. the shoulder of a road disappears, which in turn gives a cyclist the only option of now using more of the lane. CVC 21202 (http://dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21202.htm)
cyclist is now in the road.

perhaps motorists pass dangerously close by
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJmxCuPiM0c

1 car goes by, the next, etc...

this is a degree of mass anonymity
the engineers whom designed the road, have given rise to the situation, motorists are most commonly the users of the road, therefore, everyone simply "goes with the flow" (for lack of better verbiage).
all of a sudden, this practice has become the social norm.

is it right action? no
is it violence? i'd say so, albeit to a lesser degree
is it negligence? yes
is it ignorance? yes

all of this kind of stuff, is yet another example of how isolated the automobile has made our culture.

people get in their cars, and by large, that is The American Sanctuary.

how sad is that?

its the place where people go to escape.

people smoke in their cars, blast the radio, and so called "destress", that is, until they hit traffic
or have to pass a bicyclist that they obviously feel has no right to be on the road.

it has to do with those basic 3 factors.
1. Psychological
2. Physical
3. and Social distancing

if you can cut someone off in a car, the anonymity of the vehicle masks the direct personal contact.
just like you'd see cars cutting each other off in a merge lane.

see... thats not accurate either.

those are people hiding behind the anonymity of their vehicles, cutting each other off in line.
while we may feel inclined to do so in the grocery store line, it rarely occurs. simply because we have a face to face Human Interaction.

its the same reason why people on bicycles do not cut each other off (as often), because we are people, and our only degree of distancing would possibly be shear speed.

maybe if I were going much faster, and had my iPod blasting, i'd cut off that illegal immigrant on their department store bike, while i zoom away clad in lycra on a fancy bike of MY CHOOSING.

again... physical, psychological, and social distancing.

thats the gist

peace...d

on another slant
slight OT

i feel that "The Car" is not 100% the vehicle of this behavior.
rather than the perceived "Freedom" of the road.
the Free Parking, etc...

again...
in a Huxley-esq reference, The Reducing Valve
I'd strongly concur with Donald Shoup (http://shoup.bol.ucla.edu/)

i think there really is something to be said about The Parking Situation here in America.
if people had to pay for parking, every time, there would be more parking spaces available, and less competition for them. therefore less hostility.

i also think it would make people think more about the way they use motor vehicles.

it may not stop road rage, but maybe it would reduce the number of cars on the road.

ironically, the car is not so much about "the going" as much as it is "where are you going to stop and park".

rant off...d

And on top of that threaten to run me over in front of them, because I am riding my bike on the white line when there is NO shoulder. Huh!? People amaze me how little they value life.
Wondering if you are riding in the gutter? You need a 5-foot wide shoulder to ride a bike. If that isn't available, I would be in the lane... I find I have a lot more visibility for drivers behind me and, somehow, a little more respect.

In any case, you should never ride anywhere that doesn't give you at least a 5 foot margin to bail out, so if you see a dump truck behind you with someone talking on a cell phone, you can pull off the road and stay safe.

if people had to pay for parking, every time, there would be more parking spaces available, and less competition for them. therefore less hostility.

i also think it would make people think more about the way they use motor vehicles.

it may not stop road rage, but maybe it would reduce the number of cars on the road.

I fear that, if parking anywhere was no longer free, many Americans who weren't before would start using Walmart for all of their shopping needs. Last year when gas became much more expensive, there would be articles on the subject in the paper almost daily, and they would always interview people at gas stations. The one comment I saw above all others was "We've started doing all our shopping at Walmart so we only have to make one stop." Some of these people probably live within walking distance of grocery stores, clothing stores, hardware stores, etc. yet they would never think of actually walking to those places. Instead, they see the Walmart store as one stop instead of five or six, nevermind the fact that it's five miles farther away. And not to mention that everything there is cheaper than at those separate stores. (Of course, no amount of savings at Walmart would make up the cost of owning a brand new car just to get there.) So I suspect that if they shopped at Walmart because gas was expensive, they'd really shop there if they had to pay for parking five or six times otherwise, and of course they would still drive. The idea of walking or cycling for any reason other than exercise or recreation is such a foreign concept to Americans that those who suggest it might as well be claiming that house cats make good carpenters.

I fear that, if parking anywhere was no longer free, many Americans who weren't before would start using Walmart for all of their shopping needs. Last year when gas became much more expensive, there would be articles on the subject in the paper almost daily, and they would always interview people at gas stations. The one comment I saw above all others was "We've started doing all our shopping at Walmart so we only have to make one stop." Some of these people probably live within walking distance of grocery stores, clothing stores, hardware stores, etc. yet they would never think of actually walking to those places. Instead, they see the Walmart store as one stop instead of five or six, nevermind the fact that it's five miles farther away. And not to mention that everything there is cheaper than at those separate stores. (Of course, no amount of savings at Walmart would make up the cost of owning a brand new car just to get there.) So I suspect that if they shopped at Walmart because gas was expensive, they'd really shop there if they had to pay for parking five or six times otherwise, and of course they would still drive. The idea of walking or cycling for any reason other than exercise or recreation is such a foreign concept to Americans that those who suggest it might as well be claiming that house cats make good carpenters.

One thing walmart excells at it marketing. Most people that RV camp know that RV campgrounds charge more on weekends and they also know that most Walmarts allow overnight parking for RVs. So they will park at the Campground during the week and move on the weekends. Walmart is also one of the few places in my town with lots of bike racks.

One thing walmart excells at it marketing. Most people that RV camp know that RV campgrounds charge more on weekends and they also know that most Walmarts allow overnight parking for RVs. So they will park at the Campground during the week and move on the weekends. Walmart is also one of the few places in my town with lots of bike racks.

The Walmarts in my town have no bike racks, but then, very few places here do. I've found I can get everything I need at closer, more convenient places for only a little more. But in a car, the Walmarts in my town are really no less convenient than anywhere else. Driving here is a nightmare.

The Walmarts in my town have no bike racks, but then, very few places here do. I've found I can get everything I need at closer, more convenient places for only a little more. But in a car, the Walmarts in my town are really no less convenient than anywhere else. Driving here is a nightmare.


So in the end it comes down to price and conveneince? Seems right.:D

More convenient yes, but probably a little more expensive.

Do you notice any other bicycles at the Wal-mart? Some stores (at least other chains) have been receptive if you ask them if they could budget in a bike rack.

Do you notice any other bicycles at the Wal-mart? Some stores (at least other chains) have been receptive if you ask them if they could budget in a bike rack.

I've only been a couple of times because it's so hard to get to the store by bike, and I haven't been in well over a year because I can get anything I need from more convenient stores. Chances are, if I asked for a bike rack I'd be about the only one who would ever use it. The amount of transportational cyclists in my town is...well...probably two: My brother and I.

Do you notice any other bicycles at the Wal-mart? Some stores (at least other chains) have been receptive if you ask them if they could budget in a bike rack.
Walmart here has a bike rack and it's normally got a few bicycles in the rack except maybe in winter. It's also on a major bus route and I see more than a few bikes arrive at Walmart on the front of the bus.

Other grocery stores in the area are also equipped with bike racks, so it isn't that unusual to see it at Walmart... even some of the other big box stores (like Target) have racks.

I've only been a couple of times because it's so hard to get to the store by bike, and I haven't been in well over a year because I can get anything I need from more convenient stores. Chances are, if I asked for a bike rack I'd be about the only one who would ever use it. The amount of transportational cyclists in my town is...well...probably two: My brother and I.
When a chain store moved in without bike racks I put a note in the suggestion box. They provided a parking garage and free car parking but no bike racks. This in a dense urban neighborhood. Within a few months they had a bike rack. It filled up and then they had to put in a second rack. It probably wasn't just me. People were locking up to the railing that keeps the shopping carts inside. It doesn't take long to drop a note in the suggestion box. You might be able to collude with your brother and get two notes in the suggestion box.

When a chain store moved in without bike racks I put a note in the suggestion box. They provided a parking garage and free car parking but no bike racks. This in a dense urban neighborhood. Within a few months they had a bike rack. It filled up and then they had to put in a second rack. It probably wasn't just me. People were locking up to the railing that keeps the shopping carts inside. It doesn't take long to drop a note in the suggestion box. You might be able to collude with your brother and get two notes in the suggestion box.

I think Lamplight's community is a little different from your own. With only two cyclists in Lamplight's town--neither of whom even shops at Walmart--a bike rack would be a waste of resources, and trying to get one installed would probably be a waste of Lamplight's time.

On the original topic of hostile motorists...I notice that in some places it seems to be good sport to throw things at cyclists. Also in some places people like to break glass containers on the sidepaths. Sometimes it must be from throwing things at people on the paths, maybe some of it is just a kind of personal challenge- "I wonder if I can land this bottle right on the path?" with no human target, in the way you see road side signs soiled or in some rural locales with bullet holes.

I vote post # 36 best post on LCF.