"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - Would you ignore the centerline rule if everyone else was?

That was my dilemma today. ~4 mile circuit on narrow roads, nearly full cat 4 field. The officials made a big point before the race that the centerline rules would be strictly enforced, and there was even a moto ref. Once we got underway, more and more people would cross the centerline, increasingly blatently. It got to the point where we were setting up for turns well in the other lane hundreds of meters beforehand. As far as I know, nobody was DQ'd.

It was particularly annoying because it was very difficult to move up with so many people on such a narrow road, but I was doing a good job of moving up and holding position only to have people constantly moving up in the other lane pushing me back or blocking me in. I would surf the line but did not want to move up in the other lane. It wasn't just one or two people, it was constant and lots of different guys, although a few were worse than others. It seemed increadibly unfair and certainly put me at a huge disadvantage.

So, what would you guys do? If you knew they weren't going to penalize anyone, would you just do what everyone else was doing, or would you stick to your principles and the rules? And yes, I spent a good amount of the race off, on, or near the front.

I most likely would not cross the yellow line purposely (moral issue), that being said if it was as bad as you say I would definitely bring it up after the race with the officials. That sucks to hear how it turned out.

"The Center Line Rule will be enforced by oncoming traffic"

Best thing I ever heard an official say. Breaking the centerline rule puts the entire pack at risk. You should never do it.

It sucks if the officials don't enforce it, but killing yourself or others is not worth the risk for an amateur bike race.

i'd do what you did then either you or your team manager put forward a complaint to the ref, preferrably with another team or teams that felt the same.

i'd do what you did then either you or your team manager put forward a complaint to the ref, preferrably with another team or teams that felt the same.

The problem was that it pretty much became that the majority of the pack wasn't caring about the centerline. When we set up for turns I didn't have any choice but to follow the lines I was given, but otherwise I stuck to the proper lane. The courses on both days (omnium) were sketchy... I don't think I'll ever do it again. They should have just given us the whole road; I understand they did that for the upper categories, last year anyway.

Oh yeah, the moto ref caused (or contributed) to an accident at one point apparently. That's what I was told... I was off the front at the time.

When we set up for turns I didn't have any choice but to follow the lines

Around here the ref typically will tell us we have the whole road in corners. (where there are often course marshalls). If you're not advancing position, the road is clear, and it's accepted practice condoned by the ref, then I don't see a problem.

However, breaking the centerline rule where you can't see up the road can and has caused fatalities and really needs to be taken seriously.

was there a lead police car holding up traffic as you went?

in MABRA, there is always the centerline rule*, but in my observation, the police know the score and the lead car will hold up oncoming traffic on the back country twisty roads, and the officials will enforce accordingly. when that's occurring, yes, I'll take what's given. any time there's an actual yellow line on the road, the police cant hold up the oncoming traffic and the officials vigorously enforce the centerline rule. I've been in a field that was stopped mid race for centerline infractions (it was a P123 race too, not a newb field), and I've heard of races where fields were dq'd because of centerline rule infractions, but have never been involved in that.

honestly, evaluate your own safety and act accordingly regardless of what everyone else is doing.

*aside from jeff cup

Around here the ref typically will tell us we have the whole road in corners. (where there are often course marshalls). If you're not advancing position, the road is clear, and it's accepted practice condoned by the ref, then I don't see a problem.

However, breaking the centerline rule where you can't see up the road can and has caused fatalities and really needs to be taken seriously.

The refs said that we had the whole road for the sprint at the end but otherwise centerline rule strictly enforced. No mention of corners. There were corner marshalls. I was not concerned so much about the cornering as I was about advancing position. That said, the road had good visibility and I never felt it was really a safety issue so much as a "letter of the law" issue. The officials did also make an extra point before the start to tell us that the crest of the feed zone was blind and to especially stay to the right there.


was there a lead police car holding up traffic as you went?

in MABRA, there is always the centerline rule*, but in my observation, the police know the score and the lead car will hold up oncoming traffic on the back country twisty roads, and the officials will enforce accordingly. when that's occurring, yes, I'll take what's given. any time there's an actual yellow line on the road, the police cant hold up the oncoming traffic and the officials vigorously enforce the centerline rule. I've been in a field that was stopped mid race for centerline infractions (it was a P123 race too, not a newb field), and I've heard of races where fields were dq'd because of centerline rule infractions, but have never been involved in that.

honestly, evaluate your own safety and act accordingly regardless of what everyone else is doing.

*aside from jeff cup

I've certainly had races where we had the whole road. There was a lead police motorcycle. It was a sparsely populated residential area and there was one oncoming car during the entire race. Some of the roads had yellow lines and some did not.

centre line rule sucks. Enforcement is inconsistent in my experience.

We were using the entire road in the Pro1/2 and pretty much ignoring the moto ref. It just wasn't possible on that course to have 130 riders in 1 lane with no shoulder.

Suck. My life and family are too important for me to risk anything by ignoring the centerline rule. I'm already a loser so I have nothing to gain by ignoring it.

It happens...

But that doesn't make it right.

Saw a guy hit a van head-on just three or for meters from me in a race once.

Oh yeah, the moto ref caused (or contributed) to an accident at one point apparently. That's what I was told... I was off the front at the time.

Yeah that was the second crash. It was just before a right turn going across a bridge (the one before the lefthander) the MotoRef was coming up to do his thing and guys looking one way at the ref, and the turn was the other way. Whoops.

Guess the Ref got trigger-shy after that? Didn't see himthe rest of the race. I wish he would have kept on it and DQ'ing. Way too much moving up.

BTW- Nice job putting on the hurt, definitely felt it at the back.

Yeah that was the second crash. It was just before a right turn going across a bridge (the one before the lefthander) the MotoRef was coming up to do his thing and guys looking one way at the ref, and the turn was the other way. Whoops.

I wasn't completely clear on how many crashes there were. I don't know how many started either but there were about 90 registered. I was told that there was a crash on the first lap when I was off the front. There was a crash on the gentle grade before the second corner (took out crash), a guy got a flat on one of the rollers but I don't think took anyone out, and of course the crash on the second to last lap that took out semaj and held me up.


Guess the Ref got trigger-shy after that? Didn't see himthe rest of the race. I wish he would have kept on it and DQ'ing. Way too much moving up.

I never saw him except when he was right behind me when I was chasing back on after the crash. After I got back into the pack I could hear the motor until I moved forward a bit in the pack.


BTW- Nice job putting on the hurt, definitely felt it at the back.

:D

How did you do?

guy got hit in Chattanooga this last year in the 3s race when he crossed the center line and went head on with a Harley....

i try to avoid it.

guy got hit in Chattanooga this last year in the 3s race when he crossed the center line and went head on with a Harley....

i try to avoid it.

I think some of you guys are missing the point of the question... if the road is clear, good visibility, and pretty much everyone else is ignoring the centerline, would you follow? Or would you stick to the letter of the rules even if it was safe?

I think some of you guys are missing the point of the question... if the road is clear, good visibility, and pretty much everyone else is ignoring the centerline, would you follow? Or would you stick to the letter of the rules even if it was safe?

I would cross. I follow the bikes not the lines on the road. If out, front I try to follow the rules.

I got dropped too fast PCK to have an opinion :p

The centerline rule is the reason people don't favor road races. Even though I am usually the one to be spit out the back first, I'm starting to think road races should have a tough climb near the start to break up the field.

It just wasn't possible on that course to have 130 riders in 1 lane with no shoulder.

It was plenty possible. It just wasn't convenient. They shove that many people up the Koppenburg every year.

Umd, no, I wouldn't.

From testimony of other riders, the center line rule isn't enforced when setting up for a turn for obvious reasons.

Other than that I think it's imperative that center line rule is enforced, unless in circumstances where riders are being pushed out by the peloton.

I would follow the pack. If the pack is TRYING to obey the rule I'll do the same. If they are blatantly ignoring it I'll do that to. I'm always looking up the road so I don't see it as a problem. A blind turn would be the only exception.

I think some of you guys are missing the point of the question... if the road is clear, good visibility, and pretty much everyone else is ignoring the centerline, would you follow? Or would you stick to the letter of the rules even if it was safe?

I have/will IF IT'S TO ECHELON. When you are about to pop and die, especially in a break, I wouldn't hesitate to go all over the left side of the road. As long as you can see clearly, and there is no immediate danger, anway.

I will not however if it is simply a way to get around people. If you are echeloning, you can usually move right back over very quickly if need be because no one wants to be in the windy void.

I wouldn't violate the centerline rule, even if it seemed "okay". There's a reason for it, and it's all about the racer staying healthy.

Also it's just easier following the rules. Violating the yellow line is like violating the Jr gear limit when there is no rollout. If someone (not an official) says they're not enforcing rollout, and you verify that there is, in fact, no rollout area, what would you do? I kept my 53x15 on, my teammate slapped on a 12. I think the first 8 or 10 finishers at the race were disqualified when they failed rollout (set up during the race), including my teammate. And he had the gaul to be mad about being DQed.

cdr

centre line rule saves lives. Inconsistent enforcement is the problem in my experience.

Fixed.

Bob

MABRA's enforcement has been pretty consistent in all of the races I've done around here. Once you get out of the region though it's a real crap shoot.

Personally, I'll surf the top of the yellow line without going over but I'd rather not be the guy - or the team - known for taking advantage of the lax enforcement.

.... edited/added italics to complete my thought.

No.

Nope.

My biggest temptation was at Manda last year. I was really hoping to do well there, and I finally made it into my first M35+ break, with 7 others. We had an echelon going, and a couple of the guys started moving us over to the line. I had just done some really hard pulls with the guy who should win the race, and was tired at that point. I saw my tires touching the line, and rather than just stay tucked in and cross the line, I attacked on the right. Hurt like hell for a couple minutes.

Then there were only 4 others, and we fit quite nicely in the lane.

^ nice :)

I can understand your frustration, last year in a race on the last lap I am sitting about 10th and about 30 dudes come flying up over the yellow line about 500 meters before the road opened up. It pisses me off but I follow the rules, it only a bike race and $75 and a tub of heed isn't worth an injury or death. People can feel good about cheating and winning, I wouldn't.

I think some of you guys are missing the point of the question... if the road is clear, good visibility, and pretty much everyone else is ignoring the centerline, would you follow? Or would you stick to the letter of the rules even if it was safe?


Been in this spot before and I crossed (along with 20 other guys). The road was clear and the official was right beside us

I've been in plenty of races where the pack will cross the centerline coming out of a turn. In that case I pretty much follow the flow if the corner is being flagged. Outside of that, no, I wouldn't participate in crossing the centerline. It's not worth it.

With fields as big as you say the promoter should have provided motor bike officials and DQed on the spot anyone caught crossing the center line (in certain cases wide turns being the exception).

Given what a Cfluk your race was plus all the crashes I read about in the crit the day before I'd vote with my feet and not patronize this promoter in the future. I'd also drop him/her a note to let them know that.

There was a moto ref they just didn't do anything. I guess they tried to make changes after similar complaints last year but I think the courses themselves are flawed and there is not much they can do except have them somewhere else. I don't think I'll do the race again but it's really more because the drive is too long and the courses were too flat for my taste athan anything else.

I wasn't completely clear on how many crashes there were.
There was a crash on the gentle grade before the second corner (took out crash), a guy got a flat on one of the rollers but I don't think took anyone out...
How did you do?


1) From what I gathered there were 4 total incidents.
2) I was behind the third crash on that gentle grade - found a nice big soft dude to land on.:thumb: Noone was hurt since it was maybe 12mph, but after getting my chain back on and trying to suck wheel of the other 4 chasers, I popped.
3) lol, I repeat - felt the hurt at the back :o finished dfl both days. Saturday, I was having a much harder time than usual moving up during the crit so I sat up the last lap and a half. No point in fighting for 50th vs 54th. Sunday, I watched the finish behind me from the first riser as I was beginning my final lap. Did 47 minutes with the pack and the last 62 minutes with the chasers or TT'ing alone.

Oh well, I'd definitely do the circuit again since it's an omnium, the crit not so much.

1) From what I gathered there were 4 total incidents.
2) I was behind the third crash on that gentle grade - found a nice big soft dude to land on.:thumb: Noone was hurt since it was maybe 12mph, but after getting my chain back on and trying to suck wheel of the other 4 chasers, I popped.
3) lol, I repeat - felt the hurt at the back :o finished dfl both days. Saturday, I was having a much harder time than usual moving up during the crit so I sat up the last lap and a half. No point in fighting for 50th vs 54th. Sunday, I watched the finish behind me from the first riser as I was beginning my final lap. Did 47 minutes with the pack and the last 62 minutes with the chasers or TT'ing alone.

Oh well, I'd definitely do the circuit again since it's an omnium, the crit not so much.

You may have been with Crash (Dewalt, white Specialized Tarmac) trying to chase back on... he was also involved in that incident. I guess if it hurt I succeeded :thumb:

I most likely would not cross the yellow line purposely (moral issue), that being said if it was as bad as you say I would definitely bring it up after the race with the officials. That sucks to hear how it turned out.

+1

Inconsistent enforcement is my bane. And this year, I've instructed my officials to be pretty strict about it. And it's much easier given that I've asked promoters to ensure that riders wear two numbers- one on the bottom left jersey pocket and one for the finish line. (I'm also going to ask to make this into a racing rule.) With only one number, it's very difficult for officials to pick out a rider who violates the centerline. (especially if the finish camera is on the right side of the road)

If the entire field was blatantly ignoring the centerline, the Com 1 officials should have stopped the entire field. My officials have done that in the past, including in a P/1/2 race.

In the P/1/2 race yesterday a rider crossed the yellow blatantly and advanced position. Unfortunately, our Com 1 was taking care of another issue. However, there was about 10 of us who shamed this guy- and he dropped back. (Self policing is helpful too).

Recently though, we've been DQ'ing individuals, relegating individuals and noting these offenses in the results. That seems to have a pretty good effect on enforcement.

And a note on crossing before the road opens (usually at 200 meters)- I consider that cheating.

Thanks for the responses guys... I felt like it was the right decision at the time and it sounds like pretty much everyone agrees. It wasn't the whole field taking both lanes like Eric said the P/1/2 field was doing but it did seem to be a willful decision by a large portion of the pack to treat the centerline very liberally. I'm sure there were plenty of people who felt as I did and obeyed it but there were certainly enough who didn't to make it a very difficult situation.

I should add that in a race early in Feb a rider attacked to advance position and got away from the field and I encouraged the pack to make the decision not to chase and to report him... and that's what we did and he was DQ'd. So I felt like I would be a hypocrite if I decided to ignore it yesterday because it would have been convenient to do so. If I had been in the P/1/2 race and the whole field was taking both lanes I may have felt differently and gone along with it, but I don't really know.

Inconsistent enforcement is my bane.

Interesting. In another thread didn't you say there were some rules you told your officials not to enforce?

Is there something like a rule book supplement on which rules are strictly enforced and which moderately, occasionaly, rarely, and never enforced?

Centerline rule????? OHHHHHH, that's why guys are constantly yellin' at me during races...LOL! I always obey it, regardless of others...have definitely lost a few positions but the ends don't justify the means IMO...

Interesting. In another thread didn't you say there were some rules you told your officials not to enforce?

Is there something like a rule book supplement on which rules are strictly enforced and which moderately, occasionaly, rarely, and never enforced?

Yea, you are just talking out your ass here. Go back to your hole.

Here in OBRA land, since I've started racing last year, the centerline rule has been consistently enforced. I've been warned a couple times for being on the centerline (I've never advanced position though, and have stopped riding so close since). One of my teammates was relegated last year for being pushed out but then advancing his position, instead of just coming back in. A guy in the P/1/2 field last year hit a car head on - wasn't hurt too bad though, from my understanding, while he was crossing the centerline. And at another road race last year, a guy took a flier from the back of the pack (obviously across the centerline the entire attack) and was pulled over by the official's car and pulled from the race on the spot.

Always obey the centerline rule. For your own safety at the very least.

Oh yeah, the moto ref caused (or contributed) to an accident at one point apparently. That's what I was told... I was off the front at the time.

Thats what caused me to go down. Ref came up on lap 4, I think? And told everyone to get over. Everyone bunched up and someone overlapped wheels. The guy in front of me went down and I had to come to a complete stop to avoid running into him. The ref was about worthless yesterday. It was only at certain times that he would tell everyone to worry about the centerline. Either enforce it the entire race, or not at all. I said screw it a few times and went over it to get back up into the pack. Too bad I was shelled shortly after I grabbed back on.

But, to answer your question. Yes, go over the line if everyone else is doing it. As long as its not into oncoming traffic. It was apparent no one was going to get dq'd for it, so if everyone else is doing it, your gonna have to as well if you want to stay up front.

Yea, you are just talking out your ass here. Go back to your hole.

Talk about missing the point.

Thats what caused me to go down. Ref came up on lap 4, I think? And told everyone to get over. Everyone bunched up and someone overlapped wheels. The guy in front of me went down and I had to come to a complete stop to avoid running into him. The ref was about worthless yesterday. It was only at certain times that he would tell everyone to worry about the centerline. Either enforce it the entire race, or not at all. I said screw it a few times and went over it to get back up into the pack. Too bad I was shelled shortly after I grabbed back on.

Ah, I was wondering what happened to you. So many people disappeared in those crashes I figured it was something like that. I guess there were more crashes than I even realized, I only witnessed 2, but heard there may have been as many as 6 :eek: I thought that the ref-involved crash was on the first lap, maybe there were more than 1. Where on the course was it?

I've found the centerline rule to be pretty strictly enforced in Oregon road races. Of course the ref doesn't see every single violation, but enough to keep most people honest and safe. Still, people are DQ's or relegated fairly often, especially early in the season.

At most of our road races the lead official will announce at the start if there are any tight corners that will be marshalled and where the whole road will be open. I wouldn't cross the centerline if that were not the case.

... I was off the front at the time.

There in lies the solution to this dilemma.

There in lies the solution to this dilemma.

Sadly I do not have the engine to stay off the front for the entire race.

Sadly I do not have the engine to stay off the front for the entire race.

I'm definitely with you there.

I just got my C ref certification this weekend. There was really only one rule the hammered home. For twenty minutes. Centerline was it. I'd be curious what the Chief Ref would've said had you asked.

That aside, we all see a lot of patently stupid pack behavior on the road, but even in a heated race, always ride your own ride. This hobby isn't worth being a grill ornament on a Kenworth. Things get silly either go OTF and break things up or OTB and live to fight another lap.