Eastern Canada - montreal or toronto?

i'm thinking taking my folder on amtrak this summer and visit toronto or montreal? i will be coming from nyc. i never visited canada before. which city would u recommend and why? also which city is more bike friendly?

both are bike friendly,different culture though. I'd suggest to bring a good bike lock. theft is ridiculous in this cities.

Montreal is both more bike friendly and a cooler palce. I have lived in Toronto my whole life. Toronto is not a bad palce just no Montreal. Toronto is a big more business less pleasure city. Montreal has some great long dedicated bike paths "route vert" Toronto has one OK trail "martin Goodman". Do come to Canada it very nice up here!!!

Hey Vince,

I'm from Toronto... sorry to say... Montreal is much nicer, with dedicated and seprarate bicycle lanes!

I'd suggest to bring a good bike lock. theft is ridiculous in this cities.

Haha, yeah, Vince, it's not like NYC where you can just leave your bike unlocked on the street overnight.

My vote?
Montreal.
From another born and raised Torontonian.

More and better sights, culture, nightlife, pathways, ...
And less smog.

If you have to choose only one of the two, I'd vote for Montreal, too, because the gallic culture will be more interesting from your perspective.

But I'd encourage you to go to both if you can, just to experience the contrast. Self-loathing is a common train among Torontonians, but Toronto is a very kewl city in its own right. It's a lot bigger, with a lot more happening. Of course, coming from New York that might not be all that interesting, but still, it's a good place.

i'm thinking taking my folder on amtrak this summer and visit toronto or montreal? i will be coming from nyc. i never visited canada before. which city would u recommend and why? also which city is more bike friendly?

I'll put my vote in for Montreal. It's become a very bike friendly city over the years. All kinds of bike paths link city neighbourhoods and the Route Verte, voted on of the Top Ten cycling networks in the world by National Geographic.

Don't forget to bring a good bike lock, though. Bicycle theft is part of the reality of cycling in Montreal.

An interesting side note: This Summer a Self Serve bike rental service will be rolled out in Montreal http://www.bixi.ca/en/accueil/. You'll see Bixis all over the place. The service is similar to the Velov and Velib formulas that have become an instant success in Lyons and PAris in France.

If you happen to be around the Old Port area on a Friday, drop by the Latitude Amsterdam (our little Bike & Boat cruise ship) and say Hi. We normally come in with a cyclist group on Thursday evening. They leave Friday morning and the next group arrives Saturday afternoon. When leave the port on Sunday morning for the next Bike & Boat Tour.

Cheers,
Ron

I vote for Montreal, born and raised.
Bike to Little Italy, drink a nice coffee. You can eat amazing food, I recommend Au Pied de Cochon http://www.restaurantaupieddecochon.ca/index_eng.html

You will really like Montreal and the train ride from New York is amazing!

I'm biased since I live in MTL but Montreal for sure!!
Hot ladies, great resto's and bars, good biking with lots of bike paths, nice mountains close by and lots of hot ladies...and hot ladies.

i forgot to ask....what are the helmet laws in toronto or montreal? for example, in nyc...u need to wear a helmet if u under 14.

In Toronto at a party you open the conversation with "Where do you work?", in Montreal its "where do you ski?". The atmosphere is more relaxed in Montreal, and as the city is on an island the urban sprawl is more limited so it is easier to get out into the country. If you come, PM me and I may have a bed available - I am in an inner suburb, less than a mile from the Lachine canal bike path. No helmet laws. No biking on sidewalks if wheels over 20", stop at stop signs and red traffic lights but zero enforcement. Dont bring a gun.

^under 18 in Toronto.
No law in Quebec. They're more European in pretty much every way.

Even though I live in Toronto, I will say go to Montreal. It is a more relaxed city that you can really enjoy, unlike Toronto, where your buttons are being pushed all the time. And yes, the European feel of Montreal is much better than the American feel of Toronto.

i forgot to ask....what are the helmet laws in toronto or montreal? for example, in nyc...u need to wear a helmet if u under 14.

There are no helmet laws in either Toronto or Montreal. You won't feel out-of-place either way in Montreal. I'm not sure about Toronto as to whether wearing helmets is fashionable or not.

Cheers,
Ron

Another vote for Montreal.

Just a more fun place.

Okay, let's nip the misinformation in the bud for our American friend before expectations get out of hand: Montreal is not "European" in the slightest. The French language environment sets it off from English-speaking Canada and the United States, and there is certainly a tendency to longer lunches, but this does not make it "European" (and in most parts of Europe lunches are not longer than in New York or Toronto, anyway, except along the Mediterranean).

It feels different from Ohio because anywhere in Canada feels different from Ohio. Having said that, it feels different from Toronto for reasons of its distinct French-Canadian language and culture. Europe doesn't enter into it. Montreal is French-Canadian. The people there are French-speaking Canucks, not Parisians who've been airlifted in with their poodles.

The perceived superiority of female pulchritude in Montreal over Toronto is a relic of the 1950s when the city was so bland that people in Toronto went to Buffalo for wild times. Toronto is a different animal now. It is over 50% foreign born, giving it the highest proportion of residents from "somewhere else" in the world save for Miami. Miami is pretty much all hispanic, though, so, ipso facto, Toronto is without a doubt the most ethnically diverse city in the world (NYC is 36%). Meaning? There are more smoking hot wimmens from Russia and India and Somalia and China and Brazil and Iran and Jamaica etcetera on one downtown city block in Toronto than on the whole of the island of Montreal. It really is that amazing.

Of course, this has nothing to do with cycling! I think Montreal has better infrastructure set up for cycling than Toronto does. Though, then again, that's something of a moot point during Montreal's brutal winters--it's frigid, and the city is smothered under metres upon metres of snow for four months of the year (it's significantly more miserable than Toronto in winter, and that's saying something!).

I personally find Toronto more entertaining than Montreal, and there's a heckuva lot more to do in T.O., but many people say that Montreal is more fun and has a more laid-back vibe. That, and the more marked cultural differences, would make Montreal the obvious first choice for an American looking to check out one of Canada's two urban metropolises.

+1 - for the voice of logic and reason:thumb:

Montreal is not "European" in the slightest.

Really? Not even in the very slightest?

http://media.photobucket.com/image/montreal%20old%20port/bandalasta/Montreal%202/4edc.jpg
http://media.photobucket.com/image/montreal%20old%20port/vikifong/2005-Canada/Montreal-02.jpg
http://media.photobucket.com/image/montreal%20old%20port/waterbaby0224/MONTREAL/MontrealtripwithHeather045.jpg

Nice pics of Montreal, of course. So which city in Europe do those scenes resemble? Answer: none, really. They actually look more like New York, Boston or Philadelphia. Surprise, surprise.

P.S. Shrink your photos a bit, they're spreading the screen too much.

u guys said montreal is bike friendly? but looking at the last 2 pix...those cobblestones....it looks otherwise...my bun is gonna be sore after 10 blocks of that...lol...jk.

u guys said montreal is bike friendly? but looking at the last 2 pix...those cobblestones....it looks otherwise...my bun is gonna be sore after 10 blocks of that...lol...jk.

This Montreal institutionalized version of the Butt Toner 2008!!! :D

But seriously (pun intended), the bike path in this part of town is just one block away.

I'll let you judge for yourself as to whether Montreal has a European feel...

It's sure that Montreal shares a significant part of its architectural heritage with Boston, Philly and the Big Apple, having been influenced by the same European trends that drove the architectural styles of the 18-19th Century.

Ron

Can we get a shrinkage on those photos, please?

I would suggest Ottawa as a better alternative. Great cycling - great roads, lots of touristy things, bakeries etc. Town of Gatineau across the river in Quebec is fun. You can leave the city areas quickly and have a variety of types of riding, eg Gatineau Hills. You could also ride to Montreal from there in one long day (or two shorter days).

We have affordable group tours, and one that goes from Ottawa to Quebec City, via Montreal we've added an extra date in June. You'll find information here: www.CycleCanada.com

Can we get a shrinkage on those photos, please?

As an FYI the forum now shrinks images down to 1280 width but if the OP would like to post smaller images and link them to the larger ones.... ;) (Flickr gives several resized image choices to use when you upload, not sure about photobucket).

I would suggest Ottawa as a better alternative. Great cycling - great roads, lots of touristy things, bakeries etc. Town of Gatineau across the river in Quebec is fun. You can leave the city areas quickly and have a variety of types of riding, eg Gatineau Hills. You could also ride to Montreal from there in one long day (or two shorter days).

Since vincentnyc rides a folder, I think he is looking more for urban itineraries. But that said, I second the motion. Ottawa is a great cycling destination. Sundays are always special there in the Summer, as many parkways in the area are closed to automobiles and are accessible only by foot, roller blade or bike. Ottawa is a quick train ride from Montreal (with VIA Rail).

The Rideau canal is another definite "must ride".

Ron

Go to Montreal. The train ride's more scenic and shorter. The food's better than in Toronto. And before someone screams about all the ethnically diverse food you can get in Toronto that you can't get in Montreal, remember the OP is coming from NYC which whoops ass when it comes to ethnic food. Plus Montreal has Schwartz' (Montreal smoked meat which is basically a smoked pastrami), bagels (slightly sweeter due to honey in boiling water), and poutine (gravy cheese fries). It's like a bizarro NYC. Plus, you can probably run reds in Montreal w/o a 2nd thought. In Toronto, they actually wait at red lights! It's bizarre!

I don't live in either, but Montreal for sure unless you want to visit just another American-type city. Montreal has a lot more character, plus, the people are different, the food is better, etc.

Ottawa is not big enough to qualify as a big city, unless you want to see a few national museums. It has some "European" character of its own if you know where to look (because of its significant French-Canadian heritage of which there remains a few hard to find remnants), but it's basically a very large and somewhat dull small town with some nice bike paths along the Rideau Canal and the Ottawa River - and no real transit system if you have to get anywhere other than by bike. This is probably a good thing, since there's really nowhere to go and nothing to see unless you're into typical North American urban sprawl and you like eating at McDonald's. Toronto is more of the same, only much bigger. There's a reason it often and easily stands in for any American city in so many movies.

But you want a world class cultural city that is not your average North American urban blob, go to Montreal. In some ways, it's almost like a cross between New York and Paris.

But there is some good bike riding in both Montreal and Ottawa. Get a map, because it's not always obvious.

To the OP: we're all on the same page. Go to Montreal, and have a great time. As for the endless slagging of Toronto, you have to take it with a grain of salt, as it's something of a national pastime. The claims being made in this thread are of the usual mouth-breathing sort that are about 50 years out of date. Just to set the record straight:

1. Food in Montreal is very good, but it's generally better in Toronto due to the much-discussed/maligned ethnic diversity. No, Toronto can't compare to New York. Yes, you may happen upon a nifty and unique bistro in Montreal that neither Toronto nor New York would have, and if you do, savour and enjoy it! You may also meet some kewl people in Montreal, because they certainly do exist. Rest assured, however, that they also exist in Toronto. Believe it or not, the population of Toronto does not consist solely of bankers.

2. It is a generally accepted truism that one could live one's entire life without ever having set foot in Ottawa, and one would not be the worse for it. Ottawa is a pleasant enough government town, but it's no destination for a young tourist.

3. Ottawa has North American suburban sprawl. As does Montreal. And Toronto. Though having said that, suburban sprawl in Canada, and specifically Toronto, is not typically North American because we have high rise apartment buildings in our suburbs. By contrast, suburban areas in the U.S. do not. Not that that makes Canadian sprawl charming or particularly interesting, however. And having said that, no place in the world has as much suburban sprawl as New York, as you're obviously aware.

4. Montreal might seem like a cross between New York and Paris if you're from Des Moines and the only other exotic place you've ever been to is Omaha. But not if you're from New York and you've been to Paris.

Come on Ottawa?? Dull as dish water!! Ottawa, please i am bored just thinking about it!!!

Ottawa has fantawesomastic biking though. The best I've seen in a city.

Quebec City also has much better biking than Montreal IMO but it's a long train ride. If anyone is interested, instead of taking the "normal" train route to QC which actually stops on the south shore, take the "Saguenay" train to Rivière-à-Pierre and ride the ~100km bike trail/path into town.

Ottawa has fantawesomastic biking though. The best I've seen in a city.

Plus you can walk up and touch the front door of Parliament at 2:00am if you want... how many countries let you do that?

Another Torontonian Voting for Montreal.

If the question was "which city should I move to?" my answer would be different, FWIW.

As a Montrealer, I have to give kudos for Toronto for being an important urban area - if you want it, you can likely easily find it. Just a caution about the roads here. April should bring you to the tail end of our World Famous Pothole Festival. You may find yourself dreaming about the regular bumpiness of cobblestones after dodging irregularly placed man-eaters. OK, I'm exaggerating a bit - but do be careful. Do ride on the de Maisonneuve path to get around downtown. Do ride up to Mount Royal and check out the park. Do ride into Old Montreal and take a leisurely stroll around.

... Just a caution about the roads here. April should bring you to the tail end of our World Famous Pothole Festival... Do ride on the de Maisonneuve path to get around downtown. Do ride up to Mount Royal and check out the park. Do ride into Old Montreal and take a leisurely stroll around.

Since he plans to travel to Montreal in the Summer, should not be as much of an issue, as potholes will have been patched by then (for the most part).

I would add that a ride up the Lachine Canal is also a must. Stop at the Atwater Market along the way.

But be careful. The bike path can be quite busy, with cyclists, rooler bladers and pedestrians around 4-6pm on weekdays and on weekends.

Cheers,
Ron

Aw come on! Toronto is a very nice place to visit -- heck, I like living here.

And there is some fun riding in the city. For example:

The Humber River Trail

The Beltline is a pleasant diversion and links up to a couple of other trails.

The Don River Trail.

The Martin Goodman Trail.

Not too coincidently all of the above trails will lead you back to civilization quickly but feel separate from much of the roar from the roadways.

Along and off the trails are streets that lead to plenty of restaurants that serve great food, coffee shops, a castle, interesting architecture, big parks, beaches, quiet spots, and tourist traps.

Come visit. We don't bite. Much.

Neither. They are to crowded. All the 4 wheeler drivers have a "me first" attitude, bikes be dammed. If you want bike friendly, go west to Edomton Ab Calgary AB or Vancouver BC, all have bike pathes in abundance.
Have fun. Welcomre to Canada

I have cycled in both Toronto and Montreal and as much as I like Montreal, I don't speak French, so If your English speaking, Toronto is the best bet. In Toronto you can go for 100km rides and only have to ride on roads a few km. Someday I would love to see a recreational trail all the way around Lake Ontario.

... so If your English speaking, Toronto is the best bet.

In and around the Greater Montreal area, speaking English only is not much of an issue, as a great majority of Montrealers are fairly fluent in both French and English. Riding outside of Montreal may be more of an issue.

Cheers,
Ron

Montréal is generally one of the best bicycling cities in North America. Beautiful city with a European feel. Nice dedicated bike lanes also.
The province of Québec has amazing routes throughout.

From what I've seen, Ottawa has some really nice bike paths.
So I'd say Montréal or Ottawa

Neither. They are to crowded. All the 4 wheeler drivers have a "me first" attitude, bikes be dammed. If you want bike friendly, go west to Edomton Ab Calgary AB or Vancouver BC, all have bike pathes in abundance.
Have fun. Welcomre to Canada

Even though both Edmonton & Calgary are the most car dependent cities in Canada?

Montréal is generally one of the best bicycling cities in North America. Beautiful city with a European feel.
Crikey, you people need to get out more. Or at least to Europe. Can we put this canard to death once and for all?

Memo to mouth-breathers who've never left Saskatchewan: Montreal does not look, taste, talk, sound or seem European in the slightest. It is North American through and through.

Neither. They are to crowded. All the 4 wheeler drivers have a "me first" attitude, bikes be dammed. If you want bike friendly, go west to Edomton Ab Calgary AB or Vancouver BC, all have bike pathes in abundance.
Have fun. Welcomre to Canada

Was this meant to be a joke? Calgary? I find everyone in Toronto has a "me first" attitude, cars, cyclist, and pedestrians, probably much the same as nyc. Calgary drivers seem to want to just squish all the little cyclist bugs with their F350s and hummers.

Sounds like the op wants more of a good time in general and isn't looking for the best city to cycle in. Both Toronto and Montreal have a fantastic music scene, I know a lot of musicians and venues out there, especially in TO. Vince if you want to go see some good indepent music, let me know where you are and when and I can let you know what some good shows to see would be. Of course you have to be 19 to get into most clubs in Ontario, and 18 in Quebec.

My hometown where I live and cycle is Toronto. I hate to say it but Montreal is a better place for a cycling holiday. In fact our Toronto cycling club is going to Montreal in July. The cycling path network is more extensive than in Toronto along with great restaurants and sightseeing opportunities. If you go in July the Jazz and Just For Laughs Festivals are in full swing.

Some good routes for visitors include cycling paths that go from Montreal through the Oka park crossing the Ottawa river to Hudson and looping back to Montreal. Another great one is from downtown and along the St. Lawrence River to the Lachine Locks or crossing the St. Lawrence to some of the islands. You can even cycle to the top of Mount Royal for a great view. Do stop by Le Maison des Cyclists which is the Bicycle Cafe located near a park and where a lot of the bike trails merge.

Don't believe what the city says about Toronto being bike friendly. Most city councillors are anti-bike and pro-car. They will say we have many 100's of kilometres of "bike routes". This is a big lie. They just put up little signs on existing streets, but did nothing else to the roadway. Where there are bike lanes, they are usually just narrow strips beside the curb (or on the traffic side of parked cars!) separated from traffic by a white line. This area is usually full of trash, potholes, parked cars and trucks, and in the winter snow and ice. And many of these "lanes" start and end in the middle of nowhere. When the city decides to "improve" a major street, they will widen the sidewalks, narrow the roadway, construct dedicated streetcar (yes, steel railway tracks) lanes, but NOT include bike lanes. It's a lot worse.

And while the Martin Goodman and Don Valley trails are scenic, They are NOT bike paths, but "Multi-use Recreational Trails". So forget about going anywhere on a sunny day when they will be clogged full of dog walkers and dogs off leash, joggers, kids on there first ride, and the occasional motorcycle!

So it's your choice, Oui?

I live in Toronto. I have family in Montreal.

Montreal has many more sightseeing pleasures. Toronto's waterfront is beautiful, but if you're a roadie, that's about all there is to witness. While Montreal is an island and you can not only see the river, but you can climb the mountain and view the city from a breathtaking viewpoint.
There is way more culture in Montreal, so there's lots more people to see and witness. Don't worry about the language barrier, everyone speaks English. And thus the nightlife is freaking awesome. The last place I went to they hired sexy girls to sit at the bar so you caould buy them drinks and they could attract more people to the club, I didn't approach any of them, it's just interesting to see that, I'm not sure if Toronto has that though...
Toronto is relatively flat too and Montreal is a lot more hilly, you'll definitely have fun navigating the streets. Watch out for Potholes!

+1 Montreal

+1 Schwartz!

There is way more culture in Montreal, so there's lots more people to see and witness.
Erm, there is twice as much cultural activity going on in Toronto as there is in Montreal. I think what you meant to say was that Montreal has a somewhat different culture (no, not "European," sigh...French-Canadian). There are also way more people on the streets in Toronto than in Montreal, probably for many reasons. Here are two: Toronto's a lot bigger, and the winter is one or two orders of magnitude more harsh in Montreal.

Toronto doesn't have a Mont Royal to look over the city, though. For that you need to go south down the QEW to Hamilton:
Panorama photo of Hamilton (http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/mountainbrow/torham5.jpg)

The internet can get silly, sometimes.

Toronto may be bigger, I've lived here my whole life. But it's mostly all urban sprawl.

Here's one thing for sure:

THE GIRLS ARE WAY MORE SEXXXY IN MONTREAL!!!!!

Montreal rocks!

I live there since a couple of years, and I really enjoy it! And Montreal without my bike isn't Montreal anymore! a lot of bike messengers, bike roads etc. But if you have a good bike, be really carefull! Don't let it outside, and bring 2 good u-lock!

I don't know Toronto so I can't say anithing but...i heard than bars close at midnight! It's freack!

Two different cities, two different cultures, two different Canada's. I would leave the folding bike at home and rent a road bike for a couple of days and a mountain bike for a couple of days. Both cities have excellent riding options for both nearby. I would also plan a week in both cities. You have to experince the Anglo and French based parts of Canada to appreciate it for the great country it is. In my opinion, both coasts and Quebec City offer the best of Canada but the two metropolises are pretty nice too.

I would go to Montreal. Much nicer scale, you can bike anywhere. Toronto is nice, but it's becoming more like Los angeles, minus the nice weather!