"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - How can you accurately calculate how many calories you burn on a ride?

I'm beginning to wonder if losing weight while cycling intensely is harder than if i just lifted some weights here and there. Problem is that that method doesn't really make you any faster. I'm at 175 and would like to drop to 165 but I'm finding that when i go for rides over 30 miles that for the rest of the day I'm constantly hungry. This is to be expected but it's tough to know how much is too much when you don't know how much you burned earlier.

So what's the jive digidy?

Sounds psychosomatic. Thirty mile rides, unless they're at wicked intensity, or way over thirty miles, aren't really long enough to justify much of a change in eating habits.

I'm beginning to wonder if losing weight while cycling intensely is harder than if i just lifted some weights here and there. Problem is that that method doesn't really make you any faster. I'm at 175 and would like to drop to 165 but I'm finding that when i go for rides over 30 miles that for the rest of the day I'm constantly hungry. This is to be expected but it's tough to know how much is too much when you don't know how much you burned earlier.

So what's the jive digidy?

The only ACCURATE (to my knowledge) way to do it is to go have your body tested. It still isn't perfect, but they can give you a pretty good estimation of your calories burned at various HR, as well as your average resting caloric burn. This will tell you about how much you need to eat per day, and then also based on what activities you do.

It can range a lot, but for a guy, at your size, you're probably burning around 600/hour on an easy ride, and about 1000/hour on a really hard ride.

So for a normal 2 hour SST session, for example, you'd probably burn about 1600 calories. Definitely need to eat to make up for that. Keep in mind that this is 1600 OVER your normal resting burn. So your resting burn is actually probably somewhere around 150 an hour, so you only need to eat about 1300 more, for that 2 hour ride, to maintain weight. Try eating about 1000 more, and you'll still get stronger, but lose weight at the same time.

Training rides aren't that great for losing weight though. The time of the season for losing weight has likely already gone. You need to be doing Zone 2, and lots of it, in order to burn fat and lose weight. On your training rides this time of your you're burning mostly glycogen (carbs), and you have to replenish most of it, or you'll get weak.

If you're trying to lose weight, yes, you need to feel constantly hungry.

Training rides aren't that great for losing weight though. The time of the season for losing weight has likely already gone. You need to be doing Zone 2, and lots of it, in order to burn fat and lose weight. On your training rides this time of your you're burning mostly glycogen (carbs), and you have to replenish most of it, or you'll get weak.

True enough. I didn't lose much weight over the winter, but i also didn't gain any...which is a first.

If you're trying to lose weight, yes, you need to feel constantly hungry.

I don't believe in this. I've lost weight simply by riding lots of zone 2, watching what I eat, and eating a little less than I normally would. You don't have to feel hungry. In fact, if you feel hungry all the time your body will think you're starving, and it will start storing fat. This is the opposite of what you want.

A great tool is www.livestrong.com/thedailyplate. This site will estimate your caloric needs, and then you can set a weight lose goal, and it will tell you how many calories you should eat each day to hit that goal in however long.

This way you don't know how many calories you aren't getting to eat, because it hides them from you, and you don't starve yourself.

The key is to not chase the numbers. If you work hard one day, and take the next day off, you'll likely eat less than your target on the hard day, and more on the easy day. Just try to get in the ballpark with your weekly average, that's what counts.

Ok, I have a sample size of 1, but I lost 12 lbs in 5.5 weeks, and felt hungry all the time. Got down to 171 at 6'4".

I used http://caloriecount.about.com/ to track burn and intake, and also tells you how much to eat. I was just using 1.1 * kJ burned for ride Calories.

EDIT: make that a sample size of two, because a training partner lost 15 lbs during the same diet period, and he was also hungry all the time.

Power Meter

If you're trying to lose weight, yes, you need to feel constantly hungry.

I used to think this too but was incorrect :)

Well, on the other hand, I can be gaining weight and be constantly hungry.

Do you guys assumes X cal per mile or Z cal per hour at a given intensity?

The power meter tells you how many kJ you burn, and kcal is ~110% of that.

The power meter tells you how many kJ you burn, and kcal is ~110% of that.


I was under the impression that this is the most accurate way. It doesn't care about crank weight.

Crank definitely doesn't care about weight

http://www.secondchanceinc.com/runroom.gif


It would probably be good for weight loss also.

You would be lucky to burn 600 calories an hour if you are able to be very consistant in your upper aerobic zone. If you are in good condition herat rate somewhere around 140. You need to eat at least 200 calories an hour just to keep going without damaging your muscles. . The more fit you are the harder you have to work to stay in the optimum heart rate zone. It's a lot easier if you reduce daily caloric intake along with increased activity. Weight training alone is a very difficult way to lose weight since every time you work out you build muscle with very little aerobic activity.

Weight training alone is a very difficult way to lose weight since every time you work out you build muscle with very little aerobic activity.

Yeah but muscle is useful. I was only saying that tongue in cheek. If i lose 10lbs of fat but gain 15lbs of cycling related muscle then i would be a happy guy. As it is, i've got a lot of useless weight in the form of fat on my body. I want it gone.

An HRM can give a pretty good approximation of calories burned. But, some cycling computers with HRMs (Garmin) ignore it when calculating calories, and are inaccurate.

An HRM can give a pretty good approximation of calories burned. But, some cycling computers with HRMs (Garmin) ignore it when calculating calories, and are inaccurate.

My polar HRM is usually in line with the online calculators which many around here seem to think are inaccurate.

What do you guys think of the mapmyride workout calculator?

It always seems a high to me

Weight training alone is a very difficult way to lose weight since every time you work out you build muscle with very little aerobic activity.


You would be lucky to gain 1/4th a pound of muscle per month from lifting weights..... Real damn lucky.

A great tool is www.livestrong.com/thedailyplate. This site will estimate your caloric needs, and then you can set a weight lose goal, and it will tell you how many calories you should eat each day to hit that goal in however long.

Started using this after I'd already eaten twice today...768cal before 10a.m., ouch.

Well, on the other hand, I can be gaining weight and be constantly hungry.

You know, the more I think about this, how can you guys be bike racers and not be hungry when you're running a Calorie deficit?

I'm hungry after overeating. Seriously, I recently had two Chipotle burritos and went home and had a big bowl of cereal with a fist full of raisins and a banana. Then I started getting hungry.

Started using this after I'd already eaten twice today...768cal before 10a.m., ouch.

The best way to take in less food during the day is to start with a big breakfast, actually.

You know, the more I think about this, how can you guys be bike racers and not be hungry when you're running a Calorie deficit?

I'm hungry after overeating. Seriously, I recently had two Chipotle burritos and went home and had a big bowl of cereal with a fist full of raisins and a banana. Then I started getting hungry.

Protein, with some fat. Keeps you full longer. You can also supplement with stuff like fruit (mostly water), lettuce (mostly water), water (completely water) that doesn't have many (any) calories, but still make you feel full.

Ride more...eat smart. Sounds simple but it works. Just have to determine what caloric intake you need to sustain longer rides but keep your daily eating patterns healthy and consistent. I add lots of no/low calorie fluids to my diet to satiate my hunger. Binging after rides does not do the body a lot of good. IMO

You would be lucky to burn 600 calories an hour if you are able to be very consistant in your upper aerobic zone. If you are in good condition herat rate somewhere around 140.

I love how people love to throw one-size-fits-all generalities out there. HR has absolutely nothing to do with calories burned... 140 for one person may be extremely high and for another person extremely low. Sorry to burst your fantasy bubble with some hars data, but my recovery ride yesterday was 488kJ in 47:45, or a rate of just over 600 kj/hr, with an average HR of 128. Average power was at the upper end of my active recovery zone so I'm not fudging a harder ride as a recovery ride. Even if you assume the lower end of the conventionally accepted 20%-25% efficiency that's a 1:1 conversion of kJ to kCal, and over 600 cal/hr.

I'm with WR on being hungry all the time. It doesn't really matter what I eat, I'm hungry a short time later.

I lost 5 lbs in 5 weeks this winter with five rules:

1. No snacks between meals on rest or recovery days.
2. One nutritious snack before a ride on a harder day (it was winter so this was almost always tempo or sweet spot training).
3. Finish a meal and push the plate away (without going back to the trough a 2nd helping).
4. Everything I ate or drank had some nutritional benefit other than calories - so no soda, no candy, desserts were usually fruit.
5. Ride more than 2.5 hours and you get to break rules 1 and 2.

5 lbs isn't a lot of weight to lose in 5 wks but it was my goal.

An HRM can give a pretty good approximation of calories burned. But, some cycling computers with HRMs (Garmin) ignore it when calculating calories, and are inaccurate.

At my last FTP test with my coach, I compared my CatEye's calorie data with the numbers from the PowerTap. Long story short: the calorie data from my HR monitor is overestimated by 20% at best and it's fiction at worst. I suspect the latter.

Snort crack and drink water.
Or be creative and crack cereal with water as a substitute for the milk.

My polar HRM is usually in line with the online calculators which many around here seem to think are inaccurate.


Everything but actually measuring power output seems to return a higher than real number. Either they include BMR in their numbers, or they purposely produce a high number to make customers happier. I don't think you will lose weight following the Polar numbers.

When I want to lose fat I eat a little less dinner and cut out most post dinner snacks. If I am feeling a little hungry when I go to bed and really looking forward to breakfast when I wake up, that's about right. I'd rather be hungry when I am asleep than hungrier than normal during the day. I don't actually count calories, that's too tedious and anal-retentive for me. I just eat a little less "filler" until I get to where I want.

Everyone is different, you'll have to figure out what works for you.

The OP wants to know how to calculate cals burned in a ride. I have a way I do it thats probably not 100% accurate, but should be close. Its a factor of your weight, ave speed, and time ridden. You enter all that into it and out comes cal.s burned. I don't have it with me, but I can PM you with it later if you want. I find that most rides for me at my speed and weight that 600 cals/hr is typical.

Jack

The OP wants to know how to calculate cals burned in a ride. I have a way I do it thats probably not 100% accurate, but should be close. Its a factor of your weight, ave speed, and time ridden. You enter all that into it and out comes cal.s burned. I don't have it with me, but I can PM you with it later if you want. I find that most rides for me at my speed and weight that 600 cals/hr is typical.

Jack

I'm skeptical that any formula using average speed can be very accurate, or even remotely accurate.

Weight training alone is a very difficult way to lose weight since every time you work out you build muscle with very little aerobic activity.
Weight traiing is a good way to lose weight as added muscle increases BMR.


Long story short: the calorie data from my HR monitor is overestimated by 20% at best and it's fiction at worst. I suspect the latter.
25-30% was what I came up with in comparing my polar data to PTAP data. The funny thing is that the exercise equipment in the gym was about 20% higher than polar data.

Everyone is different, you'll have to figure out what works for you.
+∞

I'm skeptical that any formula using average speed can be very accurate, or even remotely accurate.

Whatever, dude. Its not just avg speed, but also weight and time ridden.

I'm skeptical that any formula using average speed can be very accurate, or even remotely accurate.


Yep... did I average 15 mph because I was climbing steep hills or because I was going slow on flat ground?
The amount of work done and calories burned is very different.

I'm skeptical that any formula using average speed can be very accurate, or even remotely accurate.

The Calorie calculator at CalorieCount.about.com was actually REALLY close to the kJ*1.1 I'd see after a ride. Well w/in 5% most of the time.

2 hour hard rides at 85% of max HR can help you get strong, but 4 to 6 hour rides at 70% of max HR will help you lose weight. Try increasing your weekly longest ride by 5 to 10 miles each week until you are up to at least 4 or 5 hours. You will need to use sports drinks and/or food during the ride, but you still be running a calorie deficit. I did this for 3 months to prepare for a 120 mile ride in the mountains, and oddly I was much faster by riding long and slow and than fast and short as in previous years.

Ride more...eat smart. Sounds simple but it works. Just have to determine what caloric intake you need to sustain longer rides but keep your daily eating patterns healthy and consistent. I add lots of no/low calorie fluids to my diet to satiate my hunger. Binging after rides does not do the body a lot of good. IMO

i agree. for me tracking my calorie intake is the key. being aware that the Chipotle Burrito (http://www.chipotlefan.com/index.php?id=nutrition_calculator)i love so much has 1500 calories in it makes me think twice..............before eating it :D.

i just eat less, ride more, and think twice. later.

Whatever, dude. Its not just avg speed, but also weight and time ridden.

Average speed tells you nothing meaningful. First, the same average speed up a mountain is going to burn more calories than the same speed on the flats. Second, that doesn't take into account variations in efficiency, such as cadence, position, drafting, etc. Third, average speed and time? average speed is just distance over time... why not just ask distance and time.

Whatever, dude. Its not just avg speed, but also weight and time ridden.

You're really having a hard time with this speed and weight thing aren't you?

There is an area where i ride with 300 foot hills scattered throughout. When i ride here, my average speed is way down, but i can assure you that my power output is way up.

Whatever, dude. Its not just avg speed, but also weight and time ridden.

I don't understand why average speed become useful when combined with these other parameters. What is the formula?

Lab testing results are the only accurate numbers you can rely on.
At 135bpm and 220w, I burn ~1140c/hr. Polar, Computrainer, Sports Instruments (counters that I've used in the past) would have put my burn rate in the 700-800/hr range for that average heart rate. Calorie calculators significantly underestimate in my experience.

Lab testing results are the only accurate numbers you can rely on.
At 135bpm and 220w, I burn ~1140c/hr. Polar, Computrainer, Sports Instruments (counters that I've used in the past) would have put my burn rate in the 700-800/hr range for that average heart rate. Calorie calculators significantly underestimate in my experience.

It is interesting to note that 220 W is 792 kJ/hr. Using the "standard" 1.1x efficiency multiplier gives about 870 calories/hr. If you were 1140 then that makes your multiplier around 1.4. I guess you just aren't very efficient ;)

It is interesting to note that 220 W is 792 kJ/hr. Using the "standard" 1.1x efficiency multiplier gives about 870 calories/hr. If you were 1140 then that makes your multiplier around 1.4. I guess you just aren't very efficient ;)

Don't fret. Someone with significantly more impressive qualifications than yourself has long ago enlightened me with that piece of impressive knowledge.:thumb:

Don't fret. Someone with significantly more impressive qualifications than yourself has long ago enlightened me with that piece of impressive knowledge.:thumb:

Was that with a blood test or gas exchange?

Was that with a blood test or gas exchange?

I'm not aware that you can determine calorie burn rate via blood test.

Don't fret. Someone with significantly more impressive qualifications than yourself has long ago enlightened me with that piece of impressive knowledge.:thumb:

Lucky bastige. You get to eat more per effort than the rest of us.

Lucky bastige. You get to eat more per effort than the rest of us.

I would wager that if you were lab tested, you'd also be a card-carrying member of the "lucky bastige" club with me - as would a significant majority of cyclists.

I would wager that if you were lab tested, you'd also be a card-carrying member of the "lucky bastige" club with me - as would a significant majority of cyclists.

I've thought about it. I think I can get a discount through my school on a battery of test. Blood lactate, VO2, calories, etc.

Lab testing results are the only accurate numbers you can rely on.
At 135bpm and 220w, I burn ~1140c/hr. Polar, Computrainer, Sports Instruments (counters that I've used in the past) would have put my burn rate in the 700-800/hr range for that average heart rate. Calorie calculators significantly underestimate in my experience.Depends upon what you call a "lab" and what kind of instruments they're using. The Polar, Computrainer, Sports Instruments devices you mentioned are far from an accurate way to measure calories-burned. In fact, they don't actually measure that at all, but rather compute it from variables such as speed, weight, etc. That estimate is far from accurate.

A real lab to measure calories burned would use an isothermal chamber to measure total heat produced by the test subject. And exhaled gases would be collected and weighed to determine exactly how much CO2 was produced. That data would then be used to calculate the number of calories burned. Much, much more accurate than any other way.

However, on the bike? Power-meter is only way to actually come up with calories-burned. That's because a power-meter is the only device that actually measures the output of the calories-to-energy conversion. Only if you know exactly how much energy was produced, can you go backwards to determined how many calories was burned to produce it. Anyone remember the bunsen-burner heating up the 100ml of water by 1-Celsius experiments in junior-high?