Advocacy & Safety - Tough guy

A little good press for a cyclist. (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/orl-bk-punch-homicide-032009,0,3516159.story)

Knock-out punch of robbery suspect turns deadly

Willoughby Mariano | Sentinel Staff Writer
6:01 PM EDT, March 20, 2009
A knock-out punch from what police described as a "good Samaritan" defending a wheelchair-bound man during a robbery turned out to be fatal, an Orlando police spokesman said today.

Witnesses said Timothy Nickerson, 40, was in his wheelchair March 5 about 12:20 a.m. near West Washington Street and North Terry Avenue when Patrick Erwin Trice, 47, took his money and knocked him down, Sgt. Barbara Jones said.

A passing bicyclist noticed the attack, punched Trice, then pedaled away. Trice fell to the ground, and an officer found him unconscious and bleeding from the mouth and nose, Jones said. The money was in Trice's right hand. He was taken to Florida Hospital Orlando and died two days later.

Police asked the public for help identifying the man who delivered the punch and eventually found him. Jones did not release his name, saying his identity is part of an open investigation.



The death appears to be justifiable homicide, Jones said, but there has been no official ruling. The case is being forwarded to the Orange-Osceola State Attorney's Office for review.

wow.

don't mess with the biker, eh?

Guess you DON'T need 2 tons of metal to be fatal.

:jawdrop::jawdrop:

That kind of sucks for the biker. I'm sure he didn't mean to kill the guy, but now he'll have that hanging over his head for the rest of his life.

That kind of sucks for the biker. I'm sure he didn't mean to kill the guy, but now he'll have that hanging over his head for the rest of his life.

If I had ever killed or seriously injured an innocent victim, I would indeed "have that hanging over [my] head for the rest of [my] life." However, I would feel far less remorse under the scenario cited, a justifiable accidental homicide in which I was valiantly protecting an innocent victim.

If I had ever killed or seriously injured an innocent victim, I would indeed "have that hanging over [my] head for the rest of [my] life." However, I would feel far less remorse under the scenario cited, a justifiable accidental homicide in which I was valiantly protecting an innocent victim.

I can agree with this. The dude robbed a guy in a wheelchair... I'd have no problem knowing I accidentally killed him.

If I killed such vermin, with a punch, I'd be damn proud of myself!!!!

Feel good story of the day. :)

That kind of sucks for the biker. I'm sure he didn't mean to kill the guy, but now he'll have that hanging over his head for the rest of his life.

That's something that I'd be proud to have hanging over my head for the rest of my life. Some people need to be taken out. A lot of people, actually.

I can agree with this. The dude robbed a guy in a wheelchair... I'd have no problem knowing I accidentally killed him.


If I killed such vermin, with a punch, I'd be damn proud of myself!!!!

Feel good story of the day. :)


That's something that I'd be proud to have hanging over my head for the rest of my life. Some people need to be taken out. A lot of people, actually.

Posting such garbage proves none of you have ever killed anything more than an insect... not even someone who "deserved" it.

Posting such garbage proves none of you have ever killed anything more than an insect... not even someone who "deserved" it.

Wow, judging three of the nine previous posters in one fell swoop! That has to be some kind of a record, even for A&S. :rolleyes:

It must've been Deebo from Friday.

Sorry, not worth a few bucks to me.

I've always felt stealing a couple bucks and knocking someone out of a wheelchair definitely deserves the death penalty... :rolleyes:

I agree that street vengeance isn't the answer, but that's not really what happened here. The cyclist stepped in and defended the guy with his fists and accidentally killed him. Whether or not he 'deserved' it is a judgment call, but if I were in the same situation and accidentally killed a guy while he was robbing somebody who was handicapped, I certainly wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

It is a stange report. The bicyclist punches the guy, then rides away without helping the victim get up or giving the victim back his money? odd.

Posting such garbage proves none of you have ever killed anything more than an insect... not even someone who "deserved" it.

Amen. Those who talk about death in that way never lived it.


It is a strange report. The bicyclist punches the guy, then rides away without helping the victim get up or giving the victim back his money? odd.

Cyclist probably realized he did a lot more damage than he intended and got panicked.

What you guys are neglecting here is that the robber obviously did not wear a helmet.

My best friend is a vet. He has killed people who were trying, actively, to kill him and he has that hanging over his head to no small effect.

Sometimes you have to fight. Sometimes people die, but armchair heroics are pretty empty. I have no respect for a guy who robs someone and pushes over his wheelchair, but if I killed him in retaliation, I don't think I'd be pumping my fist in the air, shouting, "Hell, yeah!"

The robber may have deserved the retaliation, but death? I feel sorry for the Good Samaritan. Good on him for trying to do the right thing, though. I hope he suffers no legal problems from this.

bf

A little good press for a cyclist. (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/orl-bk-punch-homicide-032009,0,3516159.story)

A passing bicyclist noticed the attack, punched Trice, then pedaled away. Trice fell to the ground, and an officer found him unconscious and bleeding from the mouth and nose, Jones said. The money was in Trice's right hand. He was taken to Florida Hospital Orlando and died two days later...

Death from a simple fall with little to no forward momentum.

Sounds like Trice should have been wearing a helmet. :innocent:

if I were in the same situation and accidentally killed a guy while he was robbing somebody who was handicapped, I certainly wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

Until you actually did it. Then I guarantee you would lose a lot more than sleep.

Go back to your armchair, commando.

Another worthless pile of poop off the streets. Good job!

I've always felt stealing a couple bucks and knocking someone out of a wheelchair definitely deserves the death penalty... :rolleyes:

I suppose you also feel that anyone in a wheelchair should stay at home where they will be safe from those innocent folks just trying to steal a few bucks for a meal.

I always enjoy the comments of criminals activists like you.

In other news, AnS crowd up in arms over draconian ticketing of cyclists who run traffic lights

I can agree with this. The dude robbed a guy in a wheelchair... I'd have no problem knowing I accidentally killed him.

The dude has a mean punch. I thought cyclists didn't do much weight lifting.. Mixed feelings.. Robbing a wheel chair victim is done by scum... The rider should have been wearing generic lycra and shades, plus a helmet. They say we all look alike..

The cyclist wasn't being threatened and it wasn't "self defense". Maybe it was accidental homicide, maybe something stronger. If he gets off the cops are doing him a favor.

I suppose you also feel that anyone in a wheelchair should stay at home where they will be safe from those innocent folks just trying to steal a few bucks for a meal.

I always enjoy the comments of criminals activists like you.

:wtf: is wrong with you?

Until you actually did it. Then I guarantee you would lose a lot more than sleep.

Go back to your armchair, commando.

I'm not what might be considered an 'armchair commando.' Without getting into details I've seen my share of death and destruction and have had a hand in a sufficient amount of it. I didn't lose any sleep over it then, either.

For the record, I didn't say I'd be proud of it, or that I'd enjoy it. Just that it wouldn't bother me knowing somebody died while I was doing what I felt was right in a hostile situation, protecting other people.

The cyclist wasn't being threatened and it wasn't "self defense". Maybe it was accidental homicide, maybe something stronger. If he gets off the cops are doing him a favor.What a load of BS. Besides Hawaii and Vermont are probably the only two states where laws are such and the cops are stupid enough to arrest the good guy in a situation like this.

And the public and political backlash against such stupid cops might just teach them a lesson.

What a load of BS. Besides Hawaii and Vermont are probably the only two states where laws are such and the cops are stupid enough to arrest the good guy in a situation like this.
And the public and political backlash against such stupid cops might just teach them a lesson.

Not BS, run the scenario by any attorney. The cops may want to speak with him to get the story straight. (Like the robber was coming at him with a broken bottle or something.)

Public outcry doesn't mean sh*t when it comes to enforcing the law. Remember Eilian Gonzales?

Not BS, run the scenario by any attorney.

So provide us with an example (other than in Vermont or Hawaii) similar to this OP which support your claims.


The cops may want to speak with him to get the story straight. (Like the robber was coming at him with a broken bottle or something.)

That is a big change of position from your first claim "The cyclist wasn't being threatened and it wasn't "self defense"."

I would consider any person willing to rob and push over a guy in a wheelchair to be an immediate threat to everyone around him; especially when the scum bag is within punching distance. No "broken bottle or something" necessary.

In most states (not talking about Vermont or Hawaii here), citizens have the right to place scum bags like this under citizens arrest and may use reasonable force to take scum bag into custody and detain them.


Public outcry doesn't mean sh*t when it comes to enforcing the law. Remember Eilian Gonzales?That was political expediency and had little to do with the law, human rights or doing the right thing.

As an example demonstrating my point (even in Hawaii):
Until recently, a home owner in Hawaii was not even allowed to protect his home and apparently the people in his home. If someone broke into your home, you had to run out the back door and let the thieves have at the home, otherwise the homeowner might face the full force of the law.

The point was pressed home a couple years ago. A homeless meth head tried to break into an apartment with the owner and significant other inside. The man scared the meth head away by loudly calling the police. Police come, take a report and leave. Meth head came back, breaks a window and reaches in trying to open the locked front door from the inside. The man again scares the meth head away by loudly calling the police. Police come, take a report and leave. Now most of us intelligent people would have expected the police to leave an officer in the area for awhile, but you would be wrong. A little later, the owner and significant other were cleaning up the broken glass. Meth head charges the significant other and knocks her back into the apartment. Meth head jumps on top of her and starts choking her. The man gets 2 kitchen knives and stabs meth head, who dies, thereby saving the life of his significant other. Police arrive, investigate and arrest the apartment owner for second degree murder, and haul him off to jail.

The public outcry was immediate. The elected city prosecutor immediately had the police release the man, and declared that the arrest never should have happened. With continued public outcry of how the man would now have a life long arrest record for second degree murder, the city prosecutor went to court and got the arrest record expunged.

Public outcry then force the change in law finally allowing us to defend ourselves, others and property when in our own home.

No joke folks, this really happened in Honolulu.

There is a difference between fighting off an attacker and stopping your bike to get involved in a robbery. As I understand it, the cyclist stopped his ride, hit the drunk, drunk falls down (busting his head) and the cyclist rides off. That's not self defense, not by a long shot. If the cops want to charge him they have a case.

I'm not taking sides here, YOU ARE. I'm playing devils advocate.

I suppose you also feel that anyone in a wheelchair should stay at home where they will be safe from those innocent folks just trying to steal a few bucks for a meal.

I always enjoy the comments of criminals activists like you.

If the cyclist shot the guy in the head, would that be okay? You sound like you'd be fine with that too.

I can only assume that the guy who threw the punch did not intend to kill the thief, so I can't fault him for anything.

But for the people who are glad he's dead: Would you have killed this man if you knew you could get away with it?

The cyclist wasn't being threatened and it wasn't "self defense". Maybe it was accidental homicide, maybe something stronger. If he gets off the cops are doing him a favor.
There is a difference between fighting off an attacker and stopping your bike to get involved in a robbery. As I understand it, the cyclist stopped his ride, hit the drunk, drunk falls down (busting his head) and the cyclist rides off. That's not self defense, not by a long shot. If the cops want to charge him they have a case.

I'm not taking sides here, YOU ARE. I'm playing devils advocate.So you do not really believe in your position, your just being argumentative!

PS: Your first post pretty clearly took sides. I hope if you are ever assaulted and robbed, that those around you will take your advice; not get involved and just keep moving along. Seems that will be the only way you extreme left cases will learn.

It's been my observation that someone who quotes a post back has an agenda.



I ran it by my brother, who is a Judge. He said the guy COULD be charged but other factors would come into play like was the cyclist use of force proportional/the same as the drunk was using and the cyclist would probably use an " in defense of others" defense.

Funny, I feel you're the one who wants an argument. I stated my opinion. YOU"RE THE ONE WHO STARTED CALLING NAMES.

And don't worry about me, if I can't outrun them I'll kick em in the crotch.

It's been my observation that someone who quotes a post back has an agenda. And now you move to your strawman.:rolleyes:


Funny, I feel you're the one who wants an argument. I stated my opinion. YOU"RE THE ONE WHO STARTED CALLING NAMES. And another strawman, I have not engaged in any name calling, just clear sighted observation.:rolleyes:

I ran it by my brother, who is a Judge. He said the guy COULD be charged but other factors would come into play like was the cyclist use of force proportional/the same as the drunk was using and the cyclist would probably use an " in defense of others" defense.Anyone COULD be charged. That has been noted in this thread, especially in my example. You seem to have missed the other wisdom this thread and your brother imparted. The cyclist used a hand, and the robber used his hands = proportional force; but not all states require proportional force, many allow the use of deadly force with the reasonable fear of bodily harm occurring to ones self or others. In other words, greater force in defense is OK; you do not have to wait until the robber kills you, before you kill the robber.

How did you not understand that the cyclist was involved in defense of others? Seemed pretty clear to other BF members here.

I just KNEW you'd be back. Can't leave it alone, can you? I wilt before your scintillating logic. You're a great guy/gal and must be popular. So glad you replied.

Seems that will be the only way you extreme left cases will learn.

Why do so many people make everything out to be a left/right, liberal/conservative dichotomy all the time? It gets old, seriously.

That kind of sucks for the biker. I'm sure he didn't mean to kill the guy, but now he'll have that hanging over his head for the rest of his life.

I could live with that no problem. The cyclist did his civic duty and should get a key to the city. Think of all the helpless and aged human beings that will never fall victim to that hoodlum in the future.

I am not condoning vigilantism. A vigilante goes around looking for trouble. We are talking about a concerned citizen the likes of which we could use more of in my town.

I wonder how they IDed the cyclist tho. Certainly there is more to the story.

I could live with that no problem. The cyclist did his civic duty and should get a key to the city. Think of all the helpless and aged human beings that will never fall victim to that hoodlum in the future.

You seem to be making the assumption that this person would never have done anything good or useful with his life in the future. Would we be better off just getting rid of undesirables?

And does his particular crime warrant death? What is this, Saudi Arabia?

This piece of worthless scum decided to run the risk he did when he decided to be a criminal. This time he lost. He will never victimize another person. That is a very good thing.

What he may have potentially done in the future is irrelevant. He made the choice to throw that future away. However, I find it highly unlikely that he would ever have amounted to more than a low-life, scum-bag. That was the way he chose to shape his life.

The cyclist didn't kill him. He was killed by his own bad decisions. If it didn't happen when it did, it would have happened sooner-or-later.

Whether or not his crime deserved death is irrelevant. Death was not purposely dealt to him. But that was a risk he chose to take.

The cyclist should not be one bit concerned with the outcome of this incident. He did the right thing. Most people would be too afraid to do that.

You seem to be making the assumption that this person would never have done anything good or useful with his life in the future.

I am sure he would have discovered a cure for cancer and won the Nobel Peace Prize eventually.

I am sure he would have discovered a cure for cancer and won the Nobel Peace Prize eventually.

:roflmao: :thumb:

This piece of worthless scum decided to run the risk he did when he decided to be a criminal. This time he lost. He will never victimize another person. That is a very good thing.

Do you know anyone who some time in their past did something wrong, or victimized someone? Do you wish that person was dead?

I am sure he would have discovered a cure for cancer and won the Nobel Peace Prize eventually.

Okay, I'll ask you too: Do you know anyone who made a mistake in their past, perhaps committed a crime, or victimized someone? If so, do you think their lives are now worthless?

Do you know anyone who some time in their past did something wrong, or victimized someone? Do you wish that person was dead?

Irrelevant question. What I wish doesn't matter in this case.

Here's how it works. Everyone has the right to self-defense. If everyone had the spine to exercise this right, there would be fewer victims of crimes because there would be fewer criminals, and because criminals tend to go for the easier target. They are less likely to try to victimize someone who may have the means or demeanor to fight back.

The worthless thug in this scenario saw the man in the wheelchair as an easy target. For whatever reason this man could not, or did not, act to protect himself.

So enter good Samaritan. He did just what he should have done. The fact that the punk croaked was unintentional and a product of his own bad decisions. If he had not decided to be a scum-bag, he probably would still be alive. His choice. He deserves no tears. Instead, we should all be happy in knowing that he will never victimize any of us.

Irrelevant question. What I wish doesn't matter in this case.

Here's how it works. Everyone has the right to self-defense. If everyone had the spine to exercise this right, there would be fewer victims of crimes because there would be fewer criminals, and because criminals tend to go for the easier target. They are less likely to try to victimize someone who may have the means or demeanor to fight back.

The worthless thug in this scenario saw the man in the wheelchair as an easy target. For whatever reason this man could not, or did not, act to protect himself.

Just to be clear, I don't think the cyclist was wrong for doing what he did. Unless he was Bruce Lee on steroids or something, he couldn't have expected that his punch would kill someone.

What I am criticizing is people like yourself who are glad that the guy is dead.

This piece of worthless scum decided to run the risk he did when he decided to be a criminal. This time he lost. He will never victimize another person. That is a very good thing.
I think that's a disgusting attitude to have.



So enter good Samaritan. He did just what he should have done. The fact that the punk croaked was unintentional and a product of his own bad decisions. If he had not decided to be a scum-bag, he probably would still be alive. His choice. He deserves no tears. Instead, we should all be happy in knowing that he will never victimize any of us.

That's one silver lining. Is any part of you at all upset that he can't ever do anything good with his life now?

Would we be better off if all criminals of a certain sort are put to death? If so, which kinds? Honest question here.

What I am criticizing is people like yourself who are glad that the guy is dead.

Let us clear up what appears to be a misunderstanding. I'm not glad he's dead. I find no joy in that. He brought his death upon himself, so to that I feel apathetic.

What I am glad of is that he can no longer commit violent crimes against others.

I am glad that his actions have ended, not that he lost his life.


I think that's a disgusting attitude to have.

It is disgusting that he will never victimize another person? That is a very strange attitude to have.


That's one silver lining. Is any part of you at all upset that he can't ever do anything good with his life now?

Not particularly. What is there to make me think that he would? Granted, all I know of him is this one short article, but I think a guy who goes around robbing people in wheelchairs is much less likely a pillar of the community than a sub-human animal.


Would we be better off if all criminals of a certain sort are put to death? If so, which kinds? Honest question here.

Honest answer: Once again, he was not put to death. His death was merely the outcome of an incident he chose to initiate.

Or are you asking for my feelings on capital punishment? Off topic.

Texas law and Florida law are similar in many ways. I can't be sure about Florida, but in Texas, the cyclist would almost certainly not face prosecution in a similar scenario. The robber still had the stolen property, and in Texas, a private citizen can use reasonable force to recover stolen property, and can use force, up to and including DEADLY force, within reason, to detain or prevent the escape of a felon.

Keep in mind the "reasonable" and "within reason" parts of the above paragraph. I did not say it is open season on all fleeing felons.