Fifty Plus (50+) - Brooks B-17- A Break-in Diary- with pics

Mission: Prepare the LeMond (and me) for a 300 mile, five day ride this June. Finding an optimum long-distance saddle for this is critical, and I'm assuming that a 1 1/2 to 2 hour saddle (my normal ride time) is not necessarily satisfactory for a 5 to 6 hour ride.

Personnel: The "subject" is 61 and weighs 225ish and has ridden 2800 miles since taking up cycling last June. 210 or even 200 pounds is very possible by June. Also he is an equipment wonk and enjoys trying out different stuff.

Strategy: As I ride longer in preparation for the June trip I am auditioning saddles and this riding is a good time to break in one of those fabled Brooks thingies that send so many (but clearly not all) riders into rhapsodic celebrations. Saddle being replaced, for now, is a Terry Fly Gel that has been good for riding in the 1 to 2 hour range.

So the B-17 arrived and was installed yesterday, March 19. This thread will be a day-by-day report on the break-in. I will add new posts as I ride my way to comfort and ecstasy- or not. I have followed the Brooks instructions using Proofide and did not sauna the saddle for a week, radiate it in the microwave, or soak it in a vat of pig brine.

Episode one- 22.8 miles. The initial feel of the saddle is very hard but its size and shape feel pretty good, even without a cutout. Last 20 minutes of this ride were becoming pretty uncomfortable on the tender parts, but nothing horrible. No sign at all of the hamstring cramping I am prone to... could just be nutrition or some unknown interactive factor.

Episode two- 23.2 miles. Dropped the saddle nose a little (it was up noticeably) and nudged the saddle a half-a-tad forward. Pretty much the same experience as yesterday: first hour is fine but getting a bit "pressy" on the tender bits near the end but nothing too bad. No sign of ecstasy just yet. Still no hamstring cramps... maybe the B-17 is taller and I'm getting a little better leg extension? Evening examination of the saddle seems to detect minor flexiness developing in the leather. Aesthetically I really like the looks of the B-17.

This will be interesting.

I just purchased a Brooks and put it on the bike last Tuesday in preparation for a 30 mile ride Wednesday. That ride got transformed into a 100 mile ride and I can tell you that's no way to break in a Brooks.

"No sign of ecstasy just yet." LOL. Me either.

OK. Black Brooks B-17 on a blue LeMond. Check.
You show your exquistely fine taste and good judgement

Mine originally went on a blue LeMond, as well (my, now departed, '07 Reno)
When I sold that bike, the Brooks did not go with it. No. No.
It went on to my CF Giant OCR c2. Oh! The heresy.

I now have close to 3000 miles on that B-17 and when I saddle up for a ride, I can feel my bony bits settle in ever so nicely. The perfect combination of "give" and support.

I can't wait for the B-67 on my Jamis (oh! even more heresy!) to get there. It will.

Enjoy the ride.

This will be interesting.

I just purchased a Brooks and put it on the bike last Tuesday in preparation for a 30 mile ride Wednesday. That ride got transformed into a 100 mile ride and I can tell you that's no way to break in a Brooks.

"No sign of ecstasy just yet." LOL. Me either.

100 miles on first ride! I assume you are currently icing down your tenders! :eek:

I just got the B17 imperial last week, first ride was 15 miles adjusting tilt, still need to move nose a touch up, i slide forward a bit. My right sit bone was tender.

I proofide underside as directed before first ride and again a week later.

I kept the old selle gel on its seat post a got a new thompson for the brooks, going out Saturday, maybe 20 miles. Will adjust saddle forward - backwards and post height on next ride.

FWIW, I have three B-17s, and I've found the break-in difficulty to be greatly exaggerated. They get better with age, but all of mine, plus a Pro I've had for at least 20 years, have been pretty good right from the start. Setup is critical, though, at least for me. A millimeter or two of tilt makes a difference.

100 miles on first ride! I assume you are currently icing down your tenders! :eek:

I put a metric century on my B-17, first ride (http://www.veloweb.ca/mybikepages/blerio-maiden.html). No problems at all. 18 months later, it's fully broken in.

In the interim, I've ridden a 300km day (http://www.randonneurs.bc.ca/galleries/gal_2008/vi300b.html), a 220 km day tour (http://www.veloweb.ca/storypages/kootenay-return.html)and several other 200km brevets (http://www.randonneurs.bc.ca/galleries/gal_2008/vi200b.html). No issues, besides the usual aches and pains of long days in the saddle. Most importantly, no sores or chafing.

I also have a Pro I've been riding for 32 years.

This should be interesting. From my experiences riding two B-17s and a Flyer over the last 12 years, I think you'll need to keep playing around with the positioning of the saddle until you find the magic spot where most of your weight is carried by your sit bones on the wide rear section of the saddle and there is very little pressure on the "tender parts".

Nice cats. You got me hooked on the details and clarity of your reporting. I will stay tuned to this channel. Thanks!

I had trouble with my first Brooks, but I went and bought another one. That one broke and I bought another one. Since I bought the new one, I fixed the one that broke and now I have 2 great saddles. I should be getting my Brooks Swift any day now and I'm looking forward to it. I did find the sweet spot after all this playing around and it sure is nice. I took the measurement of the other saddle before it broke and set the new one up the same way and I didn't get any pain at all. I think the Swift may be a little different to set up, but I'm going to set it up the same and see. I set it up with 4mm nose up and it works great.:thumb:

Episode 3 Prelude

Thanks for the input everyone. SaiKaiTai, you are clearly a discerning judge of fine bicycle flesh! ;) If I read feedback correctly, it seems that many feel that complete comfort should arrive pretty quickly and not require excessive break-in (wish now I had included a poll on how long it would take). Based on your collective input I have nudged the saddle forward more, keeping her about level or maybe slightly tilted up (pics). I have always had a tendency to slide forward off of all my saddles, so I will be wary of that and will feel free to fiddle and adjust often and include details in my reporting. Clearly most of you are veterans of very long rides by my standards, but we are what we are I suppose.

It took me about a thousand miles to finally break my B-17 in, and wouldn't trade it for anything - except maybe another honey B-17........

FWIW, I have three B-17s, and I've found the break-in difficulty to be greatly exaggerated. They get better with age, but all of mine, plus a Pro I've had for at least 20 years, have been pretty good right from the start. Setup is critical, though, at least for me. A millimeter or two of tilt makes a difference.

Not quite the content I was expecting- thank goodness.

Velo dog make a very good point that applies to all saddles. Set up is critical for comfort.

Episode 3- 33.4 miles- (ride time= 2:32). Everyone please keep in mind that this is a long ride for me. I have done dozens of 20+ milers, but few rides over thirty. Conditions: near ideal... 65 degrees, sunny, little wind until a modest headwind shows up on the ten-mile return home. My legs and lungs feel just great. I take a short break for water on the MUP by the Missouri River at 1:10 ride time- I am not uncomfortable at all. At about 1:30 ride time (about 20 miles) I arrive at the Marina and have a Cliff bar on the pier... still no real discomfort from the saddle.

At about the 2:00 riding time mark I am in a mild, but annoying, headwind and really starting to search around on the saddle for a comfy place for the tender parts. I work on pushing back to get the tush on the wide part of the saddle. I promise myself I will take a brief break at 2:10 due to the moderate discomfort I'm feeling. This discomfort somehow passes, and no I do not need to stop... at 2:32 I am back at the vehicle. I don't feel too bad. With a short rest I know I could go longer. For the third ride in a row I have had nary a hint of a hamstring cramp!

Thoughts on the B-17: I've spent almost six hours in the saddle now and ecstasy/nirvana is not yet in sight. But I am not even close to saying this saddle will not work for me. The pressure I have felt on the tenders (where my saddle cutout was on the Terry Fly Gel) seems to be taking longer to show up. The saddle leather may be starting to soften up a little bit. I am going to try to get another nudge forward on the saddle position before tomorrow's ride, when I will try to get some pics of episode four of this science project.

Postscript: three hours after ride my tenders are not at all sore. FWIW: despite my age regular checkups have shown no prostate issues at all.

If you feel the nose of the saddle, it might need to be lowered a tad. Are you able to stay in one place on the saddle now, without sliding either direction?

I've got a B-66 on my beach cruiser which fits me perfectly.I just put my new Flyer Special on my townie commuter and I am in love with it also. The tilt of the seat is critical. I start with the nose tilted too greatly and keep adjusting tilt down till no pressure is felt on the tea bags. If I concentrate on relaxing my butt muscles, the pain disappears. Relax,pedal,bliss.

If you feel the nose of the saddle, it might need to be lowered a tad. Are you able to stay in one place on the saddle now, without sliding either direction?

Today I was still sliding forward on the saddle just a bit. So.. I've just adjusted the saddle forward about 1/8 inch and also dropped the nose just a tad. Tomorrow is another day! (If and when I get this puppy dialed in I think I'm going to get another seatpost for when I want to use another saddle... someone suggested that above and I like the idea.)

Today I was still sliding forward on the saddle just a bit. So.. I've just adjusted the saddle forward about 1/8 inch and also dropped the nose just a tad. Tomorrow is another day! (If and when I get this puppy dialed in I think I'm going to get another seatpost for when I want to use another saddle... someone suggested that above and I like the idea.)

Brooks saddles are very slick when new and the tendency to slide forward is high. For this reason, many people, including myself, tilt the nose up a few degrees more at first and then lower it as the saddle becomes less slippery.

Sliding forward is very apparent if you sit up and ride no-handed, for instance. I adjust my saddle tilt to where I no longer slide forward when doing this. Of course, you don't ride the bike sitting straight up but this method of adjusting saddle tilt has always worked for me and it feels comfortable under normal riding position.

I was given adrand new, never mounted, B 17 that is at least 35 years old and in perfect condition. My other Brooks I bought in '84 and am still riding on. That one has brass rivets that I keep polished with the "bottom of my bike shorts". I do not remember what the break-in period was like as that was a while ago. I am looking foreward to the experience, all the more after reading this post . Thanx for the topic.

I am in the process of breaking in a Brooks Pro, I have a B-17 that I have had for a while. The B-17 really got nicely broke in in a few hundred miles, and just gets nicer. The pro on the other hand after a few hundred miles, is still brick-like. It is not miserable but it ain't the B-17 either. What I cannot understand is why Brooks claims the leather is the same for both, but the Pros are so much harder and take so much longer to break in? Is it punishment for the old time racer wanta-bes who used to get the pro when they really should have gotten the B-17??

I am in the process of breaking in a Brooks Pro, I have a B-17 that I have had for a while. The B-17 really got nicely broke in in a few hundred miles, and just gets nicer. The pro on the other hand after a few hundred miles, is still brick-like. It is not miserable but it ain't the B-17 either. What I cannot understand is why Brooks claims the leather is the same for both, but the Pros are so much harder and take so much longer to break in? Is it punishment for the old time racer wanta-bes who used to get the pro when they really should have gotten the B-17??

My Pro took longer to break in than my B17, 500+ miles. I thought the same thing, give it some time.

Breaking-in a Brooks saddle takes the exact same amount of time/mileage as it takes to tweak it into the correct (for you) position. There should be very little physical change in the saddle itself. There will be the sitbone dimples after a while but the saddle should remain as hard as it was the day it first came from the factory. If you mount a Brooks saddle, make a couple of coarse adjustments and then wait for it to conform to your rump, it'll never Break-In.

Some of us report that our Brooks saddles were comfortable right out of the box. My second and third Brooks saddles were comfortable right out of the box. My first took a little longer because I had to figure out how to tweak it. I ride all of my Brooks saddles slightly nose high, which seems counter intuitive, but it works for me. All of my Brooks saddles are still forming dimples, are hard as a leather covered brick and are slightly slippery but, they were broke-in some time ago.

If you can't adjust your Brooks saddle to a truly comfortable position, you just may not have a Brooks Butt. Lotions and potions, for the saddle at least, are not going to do it. I think it is only reasonable to expect that not everyone has a Brooks Butt. Unfortunately, it can be somewhat expensive determining what kind of butt you have.

Just my three cents.

Breaking-in a Brooks saddle takes the exact same amount of time/mileage as it takes to tweak it into the correct (for you) position. There should be very little physical change in the saddle itself. There will be the sitbone dimples after a while but the saddle should remain as hard as it was the day it first came from the factory. If you mount a Brooks saddle, make a couple of coarse adjustments and then wait for it to conform to your rump, it'll never Break-In.

If you can't adjust your Brooks saddle to a truly comfortable position, you just may not have a Brooks Butt. Lotions and potions, for the saddle at least, are not going to do it. I think it is only reasonable to expect that not everyone has a Brooks Butt. Unfortunately, it can be somewhat expensive determining what kind of butt you have.

Just my three cents.
I relented last year after 3000+ miles on my B-17CS and gave it the ol' Sheldon Brown neatsfoot oil immersion bath (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/leather.html) for an hour. Finally FINALLY after 2+ years it is starting to get more comfy/pliable. I'm still not a Brooks believer but my tightwadness is causing me to stick with it.

I relented last year after 3000+ miles on my B-17CS and gave it the ol' Sheldon Brown neatsfoot oil immersion bath (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/leather.html) for an hour. Finally FINALLY after 2+ years it is starting to get more comfy/pliable. I'm still not a Brooks believer but my tightwadness is causing me to stick with it.

Thanks so much for that really useful reference. Readers, please stay tuned for tonight's thrilling episode: "Do I have a Brooks butt?":twitchy:

I really think that your tenders get broken in and your butt becomes "leathery" too. The saddle then becomes the match made in heaven that we all desire. The longer you ride the sooner both get broken in.

Keep working on both, you will get there. :-)

I have noticed that my B17 varies from day to day. It is best on warm humid days and worst on cold days. Or maybe my butt is more sensitive on cold days, who knows. In addition, the B17 seems to become more comfortable as I ride. The first 10 minutes are rough. Almost seems like the saddle warms or absorbs sweat and becomes softer. On a cold day it starts out as hard as a piece of oak. BTW, when it was new I conditioned mine per Sheldon's directions.

A friend of mine gets his in shape by putting neatsfoot oil on bottom, and proof hide on the top. Seems to know what he's doing. Still takes a while to mold to sit bones though.

A Brooks is a beautiful piece of equipment, but nothing I would put on my road bikes. I'm constantly moving back and forth on my Arionne saddle as the terrain changes. When I get a single speed cafe bike with wooden fenders, I plan to equip it with a Brooks, just for looks.

I can ride most modern saddles out of the box for 100 miles with no discomfort. Yes, my Fizik Arionnes wear out rather quickly, but my butt does not.

Good luck with your saddle and your ride! Keep losing weight and work on your core strength to increase your comfort on long rides. And ride more. The faster you finish, the less time you spend on the saddle.

Thanks so much for that really useful reference. Readers, please stay tuned for tonight's thrilling episode: "Do I have a Brooks butt?":twitchy:

Please ignore that reference. I am convinced that Sheldon (R.I.P.) actually meant for that post to be one of his April Fools jokes. <;)>
<I am editing this post by adding the smiley. Apparently at least one person took my comment more literally than I intended it. I do find Sheldon's comments about leather saddle care surprisingly out of line with my own experiences and most of what I have read on the subject, but it just proves that even as highly regarded a source as Sheldon Brown must be taken as one man's opinion. This a rare point on which I disagree with Sheldon's advice.>

I'm with skipper. Stay away from the lotions and potions and magical incantations designed to soften your Brooks saddle. It isn't supposed to get soft. It will gradually conform to the shape of your bottom and your sit bones, but it will still be hard and it will be comfortable (if you are fortunate enough to have a "Brooks butt").

Although it will always be more slick than a typical saddle, it will become considerably less slippery than it was when brand new. That will take a few weeks.

Please ignore that reference. I am convinced that Sheldon (R.I.P.) actually meant for that post to be one of his April Fools jokes.

I'm with skipper. Stay away from the lotions and potions and magical incantations designed to soften your Brooks saddle. It isn't supposed to get soft. It will gradually conform to the shape of you bottom and your sit bones, but it will still be hard and it will be comfortable (if you are fortunate enough to have a "Brooks butt".

Although it will always be more slick than a typical saddle, it will become considerably less slippery than it was when brand new. That will take a few weeks.

Not to worry- If I do anything like the Neatsfoot Oil treatment it will be as a last resort. I wouldn't want to contaminate the grand experiment.

Episode four- 20.4 miles.
Dear Diary: Blustery and gray weather dictated a shorter ride today. Rode upwind (15-25 mph steady...ugh!) down to the "oasis", a stand of trees with a shady bench that is kind of a landmark on the main MUP line (see pic). The first ten minutes was just mildly uncomfortable saddlewise, followed by about 45 minutes of slow grinding, during which any saddle discomfort was washed out by the general displeasure accompanied by such a slow and tedious upwind slog. I do seem to stay on the saddle a little better since last night's 1/8 inch nudge forward.

Chatted with two middle-aged guys on road bikes at the oasis... one of whom had a very sexy S-Works Tarmac. Oh la la!

The return downwind ride was jeepers fast, with extended times above 20! Unfortunately the last ten minutes of this otherwise fun return were again marred by saddle discomfort. Definitely no sign of saddle induced ecstasy just yet. Silver lining: still no sign of hamstring cramps for fourth day in a row! Still, I am spending quite a bit of time while riding thinking about the saddle beneath me, which cannot continue indefinitely. I just noticed that I have ridden eleven days in a row now, so I think a day off Tuesday (heavy work day anyway) is called for... to rest the tenders and start with a clean mental slate. I do think I'm getting closer to having the B-17 in a good position. Making another nudge forward in the adjustment tonight. I do think the B-17 leather may be getting a little flexier. Total riding time on it: over seven hours.

Not to worry- If I do anything like the Neatsfoot Oil treatment it will be as a last resort. I wouldn't want to containate the grand experiment.

Before you resort to that last resort, offer your uncomfortable and uncorrupted Brooks saddle up for sale. Anywhere from 10% to whatever-you-can-stand% off from what you paid for it. That should get you a good down payment on your next new saddle. Go outside of the recommendations of the manufacturer and you may have a hard time selling a Brooks saddle. No way would I buy a used and abused Brooks saddle. I would be happy to buy a used Brooks with dimples created by someone else. My big ***** will take care of the dimples in short order. You just can't undo motor oil, ball-peen hammering or other forms of misguided mistreatment.

Thanks, BluesDawg. It is nice to have a bit of support from someone who does not think I am just another Brooks zealot or cultist. Most Brooks saddle advocates would agree that everyone deserves a happy butt. Even if it turns out not to be a Brooks Butt. I just remembered a grade school joke about a girl named Gladys.

I really think that your tenders get broken in and your butt becomes "leathery" too. The saddle then becomes the match made in heaven that we all desire. The longer you ride the sooner both get broken in.

Keep working on both, you will get there. :-)

+1

I am currently breaking in my 2nd Brooks now. My first, a honey Brooks Flyer, which is now on my Trek 700, was comfortable right from the start. I applied proofide regularly and after 3 years now it may still not quite be broken in. But as I said still very comfortable. My newest, a standard B17 well, my butt's telling me it's not so instantly comfy. Odd since the Flyer and the B17 are the same only with springs on the Flyer. But still far better than most plastic saddles. Once the weather warms more I'll probably put some proofide on the B17 also. I agree they do feel better in warmer weather. And yes they are tilted up in front. I've had the best luck tilting them up rather severly and then as they break in, lowering the nose a bit. I can feel the nose with my tender bits, but it's not uncomfortable. Finding that sweet spot is key.
As paydirt said it's as much breaking in your butt as breaking in the saddle. Give it plenty of time.

Episode five- 20.4 miles.
Dear Diary: Cool 33 degrees and just moderate wind today. Rode mostly upwind (10-15 mph wind) about 13 miles with a 7 mile downwind finish. After a two-day break from riding and another small nudge forward on the B-17, saddle discomfort seemed reduced today. I was not thinking about the saddle all the time while riding... a good thing I think. Still not sure this thing is going to be better than my previous saddle. It does look like small sags are developing between the three holes on the saddle (pic). Is this a sign of progress in break-in? Still nary a sign of a hamstring cramps for the fifth ride in a row! Total riding time so far on the Brooks: about 8:30.

Diary, do I have a Brooks butt? Do these tights make my butt look big? :o

Don't get it. Selle Italia Flite Kit Carbonio . Break in time - 10 minutes (if that). Comfortable and very light.

Do these tights make my butt look big?

Having been married for 45 years I've learned to not answer some questions.

I have just over 1,000km on my B17 narrow (fixed gear bike), and I am now a Brooks convert. Just about to order a Team Pro for my Argon18 Platinum.

After years of being OK on some other saddles, I'm now converted.

It took some time, but not that long. Keep the faith !!!

Having been married for 45 years I've learned to not answer some questions.

There is clearly much kindness and compassion in the Over 50 Forum.

[QUOTE=Skipper;8578916]Before you resort to that last resort, offer your uncomfortable and uncorrupted Brooks saddle up for sale. Anywhere from 10% to whatever-you-can-stand% off from what you paid for it. That should get you a good down payment on your next new saddle. Go outside of the recommendations of the manufacturer and you may have a hard time selling a Brooks saddle. No way would I buy a used and abused Brooks saddle. I would be happy to buy a used Brooks with dimples created by someone else. My big ***** will take care of the dimples in short order. You just can't undo motor oil, ball-peen hammering or other forms of misguided mistreatment.

I agree with skipper...to a point. Saying that oiling a Brooks is misguided is strictly opinion. Various oiling techniques have clearly worked for enough people to justify it as a viable option. Sheldon would not have written so thoroughly on the topic if it had been an April Fool's joke. If it had been a joke, he would have said so at some point in his text. He did no such thing. But yes, I agree that some potential buyers would be less intrigued by a Brooks that had been treated with oil (neatsfoot, motor oil, whatever).
I did go by the book initially...proofhide for the first 1500 miles. Then I tried a product called Stuebbens Hamanol. It is used on horse saddles, some of which cost several thousand dollars. I figured if it's good enough for saddles used on show horses then it's good enough for a Brooks. I gave that another 1500 miles to work with no luck. That's when I chose to try the neatsfoot bath technique.

After reading many many posts on BF on the topic, I believe that rider weight plays a large part in break-in. Heavier riders tend to break them in quicker. I am 6'0" and 170 lbs. I know riders that have been comfy on their Brooks in 500 or so miles but they are 200+ lbs.

It's interesting to read this. When I got my B67, I picked one of the pre-broken in ones, so it worked quite well right from the start.

Paul

Episode six- 20.1 miles.
Dear Diary: I keep my bike inside right by my desk- to be adjusted, cleaned and, especially, admired. This has left many hours of late to soothe and cajole the B-17 into submission... soft music, mood lighting, rub her tummy with proofide again. We have to be making progress don't we?

Today's ride in the wind (strong) and the cold (34 deg.) could easily have been skipped but I have already skipped Th and Fri due to work and weather... so out I go. Did not see a single other cyclist on the MUP in 1 1/2 hours. I am preoccupied by cold feet and SM (snot management) most of the time and, again, did not concentrate on the saddle too much. Though not a long or particularly enjoyable ride, it was a good one conditioning wise: one of those you are glad you did when it is over.

The B-17 seems to be yielding a bit to the the manly ministrations of my massive glutes and quads. I do swear I am beginning to feel some give or flexiness down there! My main problem still seems to be sliding forward on the saddle. If I could stay back on it, it might be great! I stopped briefly at 15 miles and took three turns on the screws on the Thomson to point the nose more upward... and may have gone too far. But it did seem to help some. I will know more tomorrow, when warmth is forecast and a longer ride is possible.

Still no hamstring cramps. What is the world coming to?

billydonn, Why not skooch the saddle forward another 1/8 inch? You could be sliding forward because your leg and pedalling geometry are a bit more efficient a bit more forward.

Road Fan

billydonn, Why not skooch the saddle forward another 1/8 inch? You could be sliding forward because your leg and pedalling geometry are a bit more efficient a bit more forward.

Road Fan

You are wise my friend. I actually just did that and was going to mention it in the next episode. It's about the fourth nudge forward now. I believe the LeMonds are known for their longish top tubes, so this all may make some sense. Thanks much for the thought!

The nose of my B17 is tilted up noticeably. I like it tilted as much as possible, but not so much that the nose presses into my sensitive areas (ahem).

Can we see a photo showing the tilt of the saddle?

Can we see a photo showing the tilt of the saddle?

Sure... pic one is from bottom showing how much more forward adjustment is possible... maybe another 1/2 inch. Pic two is tilt and molding on wall is horizontal.

I am very puzzled by the Sheldon comment about using motor oil on a bike saddle.
Motor oil can cause a condition called oil acne. It's caused by having your skin in contact with petroleum oil.
I wouldn't want that anywhere on my body, let alone the nether regions. Also, the skin on your crotch absorbs toxins faster than the skin on other parts of your body. I learned about this stuff from safety training back when I was a maintenance mechanic in a large factory.

I recently acquired a B-17 and it has been comfortable from the get-go.

Thanks for the pictures. I do see that you now have the nose tilted up slightly. That should help with the sliding forward while the new saddle is so shiny and slick.

About the fore-aft positioning of the saddle. You mentioned the Lemond having a long top tube. How does the distance from the saddle at the center of the seatpost to the center of your handlebar tops compare with the same measurement on your other bikes?

Thanks for the pictures. I do see that you now have the nose tilted up slightly. That should help with the sliding forward while the new saddle is so shiny and slick.

About the fore-aft positioning of the saddle. You mentioned the Lemond having a long top tube. How does the distance from the saddle at the center of the seatpost to the center of your handlebar tops compare with the same measurement on your other bikes?

Not only that, but how does the position where your sit-bones contact the B17 compare to where they contacted it on the saddle you had before teh Brooks? The main point here is whether the distance of your contacts behind the BB is the same pre-brooks and after. Your body hasn't changed, so whatever was biomechanically right still is.

Presumably that previous set-up was comfortable. If so, it probably represents the natural geometry of your pedaling. I would think the Brooks should be located to allow you to replicate that positioning, by vertical and fore-aft adjustments. Then adjust the tilt of the Brooks to optimize sensitive bits contact versus the effect of gravity in pulling you forward on the saddle.

My V-O faux-Swallow is coming along nicely using this strategy.

[QUOTE=Skipper;8578916]Before you resort to that last resort, offer your uncomfortable and uncorrupted Brooks saddle up for sale. Anywhere from 10% to whatever-you-can-stand% off from what you paid for it. That should get you a good down payment on your next new saddle. Go outside of the recommendations of the manufacturer and you may have a hard time selling a Brooks saddle. No way would I buy a used and abused Brooks saddle. I would be happy to buy a used Brooks with dimples created by someone else. My big ***** will take care of the dimples in short order. You just can't undo motor oil, ball-peen hammering or other forms of misguided mistreatment.

I agree with skipper...to a point. Saying that oiling a Brooks is misguided is strictly opinion. Various oiling techniques have clearly worked for enough people to justify it as a viable option. Sheldon would not have written so thoroughly on the topic if it had been an April Fool's joke. If it had been a joke, he would have said so at some point in his text. He did no such thing. But yes, I agree that some potential buyers would be less intrigued by a Brooks that had been treated with oil (neatsfoot, motor oil, whatever).
I did go by the book initially...proofhide for the first 1500 miles. Then I tried a product called Stuebbens Hamanol. It is used on horse saddles, some of which cost several thousand dollars. I figured if it's good enough for saddles used on show horses then it's good enough for a Brooks. I gave that another 1500 miles to work with no luck. That's when I chose to try the neatsfoot bath technique.

After reading many many posts on BF on the topic, I believe that rider weight plays a large part in break-in. Heavier riders tend to break them in quicker. I am 6'0" and 170 lbs. I know riders that have been comfy on their Brooks in 500 or so miles but they are 200+ lbs.

A lot of interesting points here. The word "misguided" is certainly strong, perhaps too strong. There are three practical questions, IMO: what technique helps get the saddle usable, what techniques may affect the longevity, and what is the effect of any of these techniques on Ebay value.

The Proofide-only school is not going to reduce future value, because you've done almost nothing, and you've followed Brooks' instructions. The jury is certainly out on whether it helps break-in, or perhaps mutual acclimation is a better term. I also firmly believe it will not compromise longevity, and in my experience with some trashed used saddles, increases useful lifetime.

Non-Brooks treatments (motor oil, other oil, "active softening," and possible water soaking) have a diverse and spotty history. I don't do them, but I'm not feeling desperate. Certainly there are reassuring anectotes and frightening anecdotes. Question is, which outcome will I have? As Harry Callahan said, do you feel lucky? So it appears thay might accelerate acclimation, but might compromise durability and value.

I certainly don't challenge Sheldon's (or anyone elses) sincerity or accuracy of description. I do wonder if others who have tried his method have had identical results or if it differs, and if their procedures were identical.

Weight as a factor is an interesting hypothesis, and needs some user data to gain insight about it. It certainly seems like it should be true. There is a BF user who is with Brookds, Andrea Men. He set up the Brooks Imperial pre-release user trial, using C&V members as testers. I would think his view would be based on historical product data, and hence represent a lot more cases than the (at most) several dozen cases you''d get on BF.