Mountain Biking - mtb training techniques (roadie turning mtb'er)

whats up guys well im a roadie and i got my first mtb last month but have no clue what to do for trainging. i am a roading and ride just about everyday or so. basically i am looking for some mtb training tips techniques or anything to help me out weither its usinga road bike or on my mtb. i have gone out on trails a few time but just ride. i am looking in to racing a few small races towards the end of the end of the year.

Many like Ned Overend's book Mountain Bike Like a Champion...

>>(roadie turning mtb'er)<<

Traitor. You're dead to me now.

Try this first:
http://thelounge.i.ph/photo/d/186-1/book.jpg


Then check out Ned's book.


Welcome, BTW :thumb:

>>(roadie turning mtb'er)<<

Traitor. You're dead to me now.
noooooo. pcad it isnt as it sounds, i ride road jsut about every day, adding more variety to my road rides to be come stronger and am looking for some more races on my road bike. got a mtb to have some fun and train a lil differently and do some races once crits come to an end around here.

"training" is something you do on a road bike.. so youre already on your way.

"training" is something you do on a road bike.. so youre already on your way.

Agree- Just find the longest, steepest, gnarliest hill and go and ride it. Unless you want to learn technical trails- then just keep riding them till you stop falling off.

Mountain biking is the same as road riding- except you get the heart rate higher- get dirtier and lose more blood.

Many like Ned Overend's book Mountain Bike Like a Champion...

I like this. Like Friel's work & that other one that builds on Friel's book.

Mountain biking is the same as road riding- except you get the heart rate higher- get dirtier and lose more blood.

werd! small time roadie/commuter learning that lesson... :D

Agree- Just find the longest, steepest, gnarliest hill and go and ride it. Unless you want to learn technical trails- then just keep riding them till you stop falling off.

Mountain biking is the same as road riding- except you get the heart rate higher- get dirtier and lose more blood.

Nice summary, except gotta work in the fact that you're on your own, no drafting/cheating...

Nice summary, except gotta work in the fact that you're on your own, no drafting/cheating...

Roadies call it "drafting", mountain bikers call it "dirty sanchez".

that pcads a friggin multitasker aint he?

If you are a roadie, I mean real roadie, then you will be fine engine wise. Just work on the technical skills. Riding in the woods, over logs, and on uneven terrain will be very new and hard to get a grasp on,especially if you are going to be clipping.

Id say you will be like a duck to water after a week.

Its awesome, I love it.

GL

Agree- Just find the longest, steepest, gnarliest hill and go and ride it. Unless you want to learn technical trails- then just keep riding them till you stop falling off.

Mountain biking is the same as road riding- except you get the heart rate higher- get dirtier and lose more blood.

started my usual wordy post, then... whathesaid... (and others), nothin like trail time.
I also am workin on gettin my 'hacker' status upwards a little; since, until recently, except for time with the kids when they were pre and early teens, I've gotten offroad about 4x a year...
Lots of books out there, many in the libraries, and aside from certain techniques for things like goin over obstacles, jumps and stuff, the jist of all of them was figure out the balance thing and keep the 'momentum' just right for what you are goin thru/over, like water, sand/rock gardens, drops. Too slow and you don;t get thru, too fast and you're bound to endo... How fast? that you gotta figure out with time on the bike.
Fitness - contrary to comment above - heart rate for me is about the same, road or off-road. Actually I can bury the effort greater on the road, since it really is less 'technical'.
If you're doin serious on-road fitness riding, as do I, then we should definitely keep that up.
The fitness and 'strength' have really come in handy when I've had to grunt up some steep and gnarly terrain, and since the 'technique' is certainly lacking, the extra uumph helps makes it happen, without having to bail out.
I'm workin on figuring out the 'momentum' thing... as well as the specifics on obstacles... its all trail time.

I checked out Ned Overend's book Mountain Bike Like a Champion.... very race oriented...
I also like, moe betta, Ann Trombley's "Serious Mountain Biking" - also ultimately race oriented, but a lot more 'technique' stuff and generally trail useful info for non-race...
and there's a bunch of stuff on the internet for specific topics...

... wordy... oh well...

just go ride the trails... best training ever, muddy days do some miles on the street with the roadie to keep you in shape. couple weeks you should be fine

Safety first.

1) Keep your pedals level.
2) Keep your weight rearward.
3) Learn to brace yourself against the bars when braking.
4) Learn to rely primarily on the front brake. It is the only one that can save you when in trouble. The rear brake is only for helping.

Everything else is a matter of practice. If you want some good reading on technique, read William Nealy's Mountain Bike (http://www.amazon.com/Mountain-Bike-Beginning-Advanced-Technique/dp/0897321146). It's like a comic book for MTB technique. But I think you'll find that a picture really is worth a thousand words.

Roadies call it "drafting", mountain bikers call it "dirty sanchez".

best quote ever.

Mountain biking is the same as road riding- except you get the heart rate higher- get dirtier and lose more blood.

and drink more beer :beer::beer:

Resurrecting this thread, as I am wanting to get back on the MTB and do some local races. Still on the road every day. hard part seems to find the time for technical riding. Any suggestions on ways to 'cheat' when you can't get to trails? (Hard here in the middle of urban h*ll) I can't spend all weekend in the saddle; want to, but can't.

I'll go hunting for Ned's book.

Thanks

Personally, I'm not a fan of Ned Overend's book. Things have changed since it was published. For becoming a better all around rider I feel that Mastering Mountain Bike Skills by Brian Lopes/ Lee McCormack covers things a bit better.

i wrote down my ten commandments of mountain biking a while back

1- loosen up on the handle bar deathgrip
2- never lock your arms. keep them loose
3- always look ahead never down.
4- get your ass way back when descending
5- never make a turn or coast with a pedal down
6- you can only go as fast as you can see ahead.
7- keep your weight off the front wheel at all times
8- pump over hills and abosorb air for more forward momentum
9- dont lay on the brakes, just pump them, know the front brakes
10- legs are suspension

Yeah well, that's just, ya know, like, your opinion, man.

i wrote down my ten commandments of mountain biking a while back

1- loosen up on the handle bar deathgrip
2- never lock your arms. keep them loose
3- always look ahead never down.
4- get your ass way back when descending
5- never make a turn or coast with a pedal down
6- you can only go as fast as you can see ahead.
7-keep your weight off the front wheel at all times
8- pump over hills and abosorb air for more forward momentum
9- dont lay on the brakes, just pump them, know the front brakes
10- legs are suspension
Uhh.. Why?

Uhh.. Why?

i like to keep my center of gravity over the rear of the bike to allow the front to float over terrain easier. maybe its just a habit from all my years riding 20 inch bikes.

5- never make a turn or coast with a pedal down

Umm... no.

For instance, why on a smoothish trail section would it be a better idea to corner with your pedals level rather than your outside one down? All you'd be doing is raising your centre of gravity. You'd also be in a worse position to power out the other side of the corner.

Edit -> Re-read and realised how rubbish my grammar was.

I try to keep the inside pedal up in a turn and try to push on the outside one more to try to be able to lean more in the turn. My technique is nowhere near as sweet as the pics of the guys who really lean in on the turns. There are turns of the NC crew (and others, I am sure) showing this.

that does make sense, i do that on my road bike, but i always want to keep them up all the time on the trails. i should work on my form.

Umm... no.

For instance, why on a smoothish trail section would it be a better idea to corner with your pedals level rather than your outside one down? All you'd be doing is raising your centre of gravity. You'd also be in a worse position to power out the other side of the corner.

Edit -> Re-read and realised how rubbish my grammar was.

Umm... that's not always the case.

Would you be coasting on a smoothish section if there aren't any corners or would you be hammering the pedals?

For me:

Rough terrain: Cranks and pedals parrallel to trail and use legs as suspension and keep a loose grip on the bars, allow bike to do it's dance and gently guide it when you need to correct yourself. Never watch the front wheel look to see what's coming ahead of you. Shift weight depending on the grade of the trail and whether it is climbing or descending. Look for a line you are comfortable with when there are corners. If steep enough and really loose, 95% of your weight behind you and plow the section of trail.

Smooth terrain: balanced in the middle in an attack posture. Climbing, shift weight slightly forward and pedal into the climb then spin up it, or in my case grind(ss with 32/14 gearing). Descending, depending on grade attack position maybe have weight slight a bit further back than normal. Cornering: I don't run the cranks and pedals parallel to the ground. When I corner I tend to run the side I'm leaning towards in 1 o'clock position and the non side in the 7 o'clock position. For instance, right bermed turn right crank arm is up, left crank arm is down and weight is balanced between the angle. Steeps: All of the weight over the rear wheel, if short enough, I manual it.

Descending smooth singletrack: Body loose attack position, pumping the turns.

Safety first.

4) Learn to rely primarily on the front brake. It is the only one that can save you when in trouble. The rear brake is only for helping.



Can anyone else comment on this? I always thought using the rear brake when riding off-road, on gravel etc. was better since using the front brake makes it easier for the front wheel to wash out/slide on loose surfaces. This is especially important on a motorcycle, does it not apply on a bike?

Umm... that's not always the case.

I was referring specifically to corners on smooth sections of trail, where as you seem to agree, having your outside pedal down is the logical choice.

Also the statement "depending on grade attack position maybe have weight slight a bit further back than normal." needs to have the slight bit taken out imo. If I'm going down a very steep slope then my position is way further back than normal attack position.

As a last note I find it easier on properly bermed turns to have the pedals more level than on flat turns, maybe thats just me though.

Also the statement "depending on grade attack position maybe have weight slight a bit further back than normal." needs to have the slight bit taken out imo. If I'm going down a very steep slope then my position is way further back than normal attack position.

As a last note I find it easier on properly bermed turns to have the pedals more level than on flat turns, maybe thats just me though.


It may be due to the type of bike I run, but I've found that you don't need too much weight over the back when you are on smooth hardpack when descending. There are sections where it is really steep where it would be of necessity to be more over the rear wheel, but those are really rare and far between where I live any thing really steep here is pretty much all loose rock or really rough with rocks and roots.

Pedal level on berms is really a personal preference.

Can anyone else comment on this? I always thought using the rear brake when riding off-road, on gravel etc. was better since using the front brake makes it easier for the front wheel to wash out/slide on loose surfaces. This is especially important on a motorcycle, does it not apply on a bike?

I disagree with the use primarily the front brake for two reasons:

1. If you apply the front brake only, you have a higher chance of flying over the bars (unless you transfer your weight back) or loosing a line.

2. If you are "in trouble", you're using both brakes evenly, not one. This keeps your weight relatively centered. If you are needing to stop immediately, your weight should be back and both brakes applied.

Your front brake will primarily help to shed speed, which is what the poster was getting at (I think), where the rear brake can be feathered to help control your line. If the OP is a roadie, they probably know plenty about how to correctly brake and apex during a turn. I'm still learning how to turn better at speed but I found the speed section of a recent mountain bike magazine helpful. Basically, you should not be braking in a turn but before the turn (just like on a road bike). Also books like Ned Overend's and Brian Lopes' both discuss turning and braking.

Another example of when to lay off the front brake (or mostly lay off it) is if you are descending into rough obstacles (roots, trees, rocks). If you have your front brake engaged or locked out you have a better chance of throwing yourself over your bars as your wheel isn't going to roll over the obstacle. Obviously this isn't always the case, but I took several spills that way when I was starting out (including at Slick Rock... not a cozy place to endo).

I always hate when people prescribe how you should or should not use one brake or another. You have two brakes, you're going to use them both. Learn the affects of hitting different amounts of the brake at different times. In heavy braking situations, you should be in attack position so you can transfer your weight to compensate for changes.

Stopping is 70% front 30% rear. Rear brake is for controling speed and slowing it down, front is for stopping.