Advocacy & Safety - hicks in trucks driving dangerously close

This last weekend I took my girlfriend, a new cyclist, on a ride near Bethesda, MD. We rode on a road that had no shoulders and some rather windy curves. The motorists ended up scaring her too much to continue our ride, but while we were riding we noticed that of the 50 or so vehicles that passed us, the two or three who passed dangerously close were pickup trucks, one of which had the yellow ribbon bumper sticker "Support Our Troops".

Growing up in the Midwest, it seemed that every motorist that I ever had problems with was a rural guy driving a pickup truck. While I am too old and disillusioned to think that I can change the world, I would like to at least understand it. I was never friends with any of these macho rural characters in pickup trucks, I would like to understand their mentality to try to deal with the inevitable altercation that I'm going to have with one of them when I can catch him.

Do they somehow think they're more manly by scaring cyclists?
Are they compensating for their frustrations at being a fat slob who's favorite exercise is the six pack arm curl?

Would someone please explain these men before I attempt to take justice into my own hands and become violent with one of these idiots?

A friend of mine told me how to stalk offensive, honking vehicles in cars and knock on their windows and politely explain to them that they're driving unsafely. If said in the proper commanding tone of voice, the driver will be afraid that one is a police officer. He has even had a woman break down crying because of her shame. If only I could catch these idiotic drivers and have the confidence that they would actually feel any guilt for their behavior, I might enjoy my bike rides more.

I stopped riding for a decade due to harassment. I haven't really noticed it since I've started back up again. Partially because I'm not letting it bother me as much.

I think that most people that suffer from road rage and threaten cyclists are basically life's unhappy losers. There are some entitled jerks, but those guys often confront you directly and try to convince you that you need to stay out of their way so they can save humanity.

Don't stalk any of them, or knock on their windows. They think it's funny or correct for them to come very close to you with a deadly tool. They could take serious exception and harm you. The only thing that will stop them is permanent incarceration or death.

Y'know, a friend of mine, he's a physicist/hybrid vehicle tech (I guess that is what happens when you go from auto mechanic to physics degree in a shyte economy), he's also a motorsports/corvette kinda guy (and not in a "cocaine rich comes quick thats why the small dicks get it all" kinda way) who, like me (a professional driver), hates inconsiderate drivers. Anyhow, he told me about a laser he found available for sale (but not in the US) that has frequency settings that make it capable of, say, burning flesh, er, I mean paint. Another key selling point is that the light it emits is invisible to the human eye.

I'm just sayin'...

;)

If there is a god of the Internet, please have mercy and close this thread now!



http://tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:1MflnTh46J3gvM:http://imspeakingtruth.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/angry_god.jpg

If there is a god of the Internet, please have mercy and close this thread now!



http://tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:1MflnTh46J3gvM:http://imspeakingtruth.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/angry_god.jpg

Roody, check your PM please. I sent you one about something else, not this and nothing about A&S.

There is no mercy.
And much of america places a value on ... ignorance, stupidity, selfishness, etc. And waste. Look for the biggest most fuel INEFFICIENT vehicle you can find.
Ergo ... a pickup. Or better yet a Hummer. Oh man I gotta git ona 'em.
"Anti-Intellectualism in American Life" by Richard Hofstadter wrote about the phenomena in 1964. Some of it has changed, but not all of it.
dc

Here's the thing to understand- they were raised by hostile, bigoted, trashy people and they'll never change.

So what can you do about their behavior? Really not much.

Assuming you catch up to them, you can either leave it alone, talk to them, or call the police.

If you talk to them, you likely can't say nothing to change their mentality. It'll probably be a quarrel or they'll want to (fist) fight you.

If you want to exploit that "support the troops" sticker, then make up a good, believable story about how you are a vet and tell them as much. Maybe that one particular redneck will then give you some space.

If you call the police, it might must anger them and then they'll pass close or closer next time they see you or another cyclist.

Might have to let it go. The fact of the matter is that they didn't hit or injure you.

You might want to ride on some different roads, at least ones with lower traffic volumes as fewer vehicles might mean fewer bigots.

Man, you all sure know a lot about some guy who zoomed past a stranger in some town you probably never even heard of. You got a handle on everything from his political leanings to his IQ to his beer brand and his penile girth! :rolleyes:

Besides, what kinda guy takes his girlfriend, "a new cyclist," for a beginner's ride on a "road that had no shoulders and some rather windy curves"? Maybe he wanted to make sure that she'd never again whine about wanting to go an a ride with him.

Spike Bike.

http://linux.stevens-tech.edu/kmh/spike.bike.all.txt

Spike Bike.

I said, Spike Bike.

-Kurt

Spike Bike.

http://linux.stevens-tech.edu/kmh/spike.bike.all.txt

Spike Bike.

I said, Spike Bike.

-Kurt

I'm sorry. Did you say something?

I'm sorry. Did you say something?

Well, I'm quite tempted to make a Spike Bike-themed spoof of the James Bond gunbarrel sequence...

-Kurt

Well, I'm quite tempted to make a Spike Bike-themed spoof of the James Bond gunbarrel sequence...

-Kurt

OK. I'll be looking for it on Youtube.

If there is a god of the Internet, please have mercy and close this thread now!



+1 Please !

Would someone please explain these men before I attempt to take justice into my own hands and become violent with one of these idiots?

You came to the right place for confirmation for a Pop psychology dreck/rant consisting of gross generalization/stereotyping, goofball streetside educational techniques and/or wacky tough guy retaliation daydreams.

Except for that meanie Roody, look at all the praise and electronic high fives you are getting for your psychological "observations" and crystal ball readings!

Before you go confronting any of these genius', listen to this one. I grew up in the cycling meca of southern Missouri. One beutiful sunday I'm riding along through the Mark Twain National Forest when a over built 4X4 goes by in the opposite direction. The noises that followed really didn't register until it was back alongside me, keeping pace with me, in reverse. The drivers window was down and the passenger leveled a side by side double barrel shotgun out the window at my head. "Get your ****** ass in the ditch were it belongs!" was all it took to convince me that without a house in sight and not a human either that it didn't matter and into the dirt I went, endo'ing into the ditch. No chance to get the license, and knowing the local sheriff, I wasn't going to look for any help there. Just think about it before you decide to confront one of these people.

Sorry that happened to you. Me? I'm a hick with an old pick up truck and am a dedicated bicyclist.

In an area with a very high per capita percentage of pick/up trucks, most of the very few problems I have run into come from people in cars. Typically, it seems, a sports car or luxury car.

I've always wondered why these types of cars are desirable. There's no point in fast when there's always a speed limit. Neither can carry much of a load.


Besides, what kinda guy takes his girlfriend, "a new cyclist," for a beginner's ride on a "road that had no shoulders and some rather windy curves"? Maybe he wanted to make sure that she'd never again whine about wanting to go an a ride with him.

I was wondering about this too.

Ha, the joke is on the OP...I drive a pickup and I must be smarter than him since I know better than to throw a noob to the wolves on a high-volume, medium speed, winding ruburbia road with no shoulder.
I also bet I have more miles on a bike, drive more courteously and have a better driving record...just to rub salt in the wounds of this sanctimonious, overgeneralizing little 'prince'. I'd also recommend care in choosing the victims for your vigilante 'justice'...some of us may find it funny...but not funny enough to spare you a butt whuppin.

That said, welcome to BF, noobsauce...hang around here for a while and you might learn a few things that will make your life...and that of your GF, a little easier and less apt to get you in situations that might cause you a bad day. :D

Fact: as cyclists, we roll the dice everytime we share the road with motorized vehicles of any sort. Spend enough time out there, and we will get hit. All we can do is try to weight the dice in our favour, through route selection. Hopefully our number comes up after we've quit cycling.

Fact: as cyclists, we roll the dice everytime we share the road with motorized vehicles of any sort. Spend enough time out there, and we will get hit. All we can do is try to weight the dice in our favour, through route selection. Hopefully our number comes up after we've quit cycling.

I got 40 years of rolling the dice that says you're full o horsepucky. And I suck at craps.
I don't put much stock into the claims of fear mongering chicken littles who try to make cycling appear it is more dangerous than it actually is. Just getting up in the morning and going about your day is a roll of the dice, Capt. Obvious.

Joroco I think a couple of us can say we use situational awareness for more than traffic conditions...remaining courteous...verbally deescalate tense situations wherever possible...but we're hicks for a reason...What Jeff Cooper said and stands for. ;)

My dog is getting shampooed today!

I got 40 years of rolling the dice that says you're full o horsepucky. And I suck at craps.
I don't put much stock into the claims of fear mongering chicken littles who try to make cycling appear it is more dangerous than it actually is. Just getting up in the morning and going about your day is a roll of the dice, Capt. Obvious.

Do you know what 'random' means, Capt Oblivious?
Next time you're out riding in your cloud of self certainty, direct your gaze to the curb along your route. Notice any marks on the curb? Maybe some concrete chipped away in places? Had a cyclist been there, they would have been hit.

I'm not trying to fearmonger. I want cyclists one the road more than the next guy. But let's not bury our heads in the sand. We should try to avoid routes with motorized traffic. I don't think it's being Chicken Little to recognize that, as one man noted: "We all have it coming."
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c64/gsmiller24/Unforgiven.jpg

Do you know what 'random' means, Capt Oblivious?
Next time you're out riding in your cloud of self certainty, direct your gaze to the curb along your route. Notice any marks on the curb? Maybe some concrete chipped away in places? Had a cyclist been there, they would have been hit.

I'm not trying to fearmonger. I want cyclists one the road more than the next guy. But let's not bury our heads in the sand. We should try to avoid routes with motorized traffic. I don't think it's being Chicken Little to recognize that, as one man noted: "We all have it coming."

If <insert your object here, including flying pigs> had been there, they would have been hit. :rolleyes:

Again, it's a roll of the dice just getting up in the morning and going about your day. If you choose to believe that cycling is more of a risk than those other activities, that is a fear that you must deal with in your own way....but please fight the urge to pass on your fears to others...it breeds politicians creating nanny laws to 'do something'.

My dog is getting shampooed today!

I just coughed up a hairball....coincidence? I think not! :D

I'm an old hick with a pick up truck. I've never pushed anyone on a bicycle off the road or even made a close pass. In fact, the only cyclist at whom I've ever blown my horn was a guy who insisted on riding on the left white line when there was a bike lane on the right.

When I ride, the only time I get a close pass is from one of those guys who drive and old Impala, Crown Victoria or Cadillac with 26" wheels. The only thing that saves me is that I can hear them coming (Boom, Boom, Boom, Boom) and I'm prepared for the inevitable.

We all collect information and make judgments based on the sum of experiences. Hence, it isn't much of stretch to make a remarks similar to the OP's observations about "hicks" and trucks.

My most recent ride experience completely contradicted the OP's experience. I was "buzzed" by a new Caddy and and new BMW - in an "exoburb" 60 miles from an urban area. Strangely, most if not all of the apparent local traffic passed in either "in different" or considerate manner.

The only point I make - is that we all make assumptions and guesses based on our cycling experience - yet we all have to remain vigilant for unexpected events on each new trip.

If <insert your object here, including flying pigs> had been there, they would have been hit. :rolleyes:

Again, it's a roll of the dice just getting up in the morning and going about your day. If you choose to believe that cycling is more of a risk than those other activities, that is a fear that you must deal with in your own way....but please fight the urge to pass on your fears to others...it breeds politicians creating nanny laws to 'do something'.

Nanny policies? Like retricting motorized traffic? Or developing cycling infrastructure? Or is it simply helmets that you fear?

If you think that there's an equal probabliity of being struck while walking down a sidewalk on a deserted street or cycling on a busy highway, you're wrong. Risk probabilities lie on a continuum. And nothing is guaranteed.

Fact: as cyclists, we roll the dice everytime we share the road with motorized vehicles of any sort. Spend enough time out there, and we will get hit. All we can do is try to weight the dice in our favour, through route selection. Hopefully our number comes up after we've quit cycling.

+1. If you have to use a road thats like a 4 lane, well travelled and like 40-50mph and you can also take a less used residential road, it seems clear what one to take. I always try to minimise my time with traffic and take the less used road. It works for me.

+1. If you have to use a road thats like a 4 lane, well travelled and like 40-50mph and you can also take a less used residential road, it seems clear what one to take. I always try to minimise my time with traffic and take the less used road. It works for me.

I fully agree with you.

The sad thing is that sometimes there really is no other choice. And then you have to put up with those that find "sport" in harassing others.

I am not sure which is worse... those folks that drive close unintentionally, or those folks that are just out to "teach a lesson."

Of course on the cycling side there are also those folks that insist on "exercising their rights."

What goes around comes around.

Nanny policies? Like retricting motorized traffic? Or developing cycling infrastructure? Or is it simply helmets that you fear?

If you think that there's an equal probabliity of being struck while walking down a sidewalk on a deserted street or cycling on a busy highway, you're wrong. Risk probabilities lie on a continuum. And nothing is guaranteed.

Or perhaps like forcing bicycles off the roads? No, no place has mandatory lane/mup/sidepath usage laws, do they? BUZZT, so sorry, wrong answer.

And if you are trying to tell me that the probability of being struck by a car is higher on a bicycle than walking down the same street, you need to step away from the bong.

But thank you for showing the same grasp of reality as your average politician when knee-jerking passage of nanny laws, in addition to the irrational fears that feed them. :lol:

Interesting how you post a pic of a western movie hero....with your fear nobody would have ever moved west until after the railroads were built and the natives 'tamed'.

Do you know what 'random' means, Capt Oblivious?
Next time you're out riding in your cloud of self certainty, direct your gaze to the curb along your route. Notice any marks on the curb? Maybe some concrete chipped away in places? Had a cyclist been there, they would have been hit.

I'm not trying to fearmonger. I want cyclists one the road more than the next guy. But let's not bury our heads in the sand. We should try to avoid routes with motorized traffic. I don't think it's being Chicken Little to recognize that, as one man noted: "We all have it coming."

Avoid motorized traffic? I use my bike for transportation. I live on a street with motorized traffic. If I took your advice, the only place I could ride would be in my own driveway. That won't get the groceries home.

I guess I could walk my bike to the MUP and mow down squirrels all day.

Wjere do you ride, Harry? A trainer in the dining room would be pretty safe, but wear your helmet in case you fall off.

:lol:

If you think that there's an equal probabliity of being struck while walking down a sidewalk on a deserted street or cycling on a busy highway, you're wrong.


1. Or perhaps like forcing bicycles off the roads? No, no place has mandatory lane/mup/sidepath usage laws, do they? BUZZT, so sorry, wrong answer.

2. And if you are trying to tell me that the probability of being struck by a car is higher on a bicycle than walking down the same street, you need to step away from the bong.

3. Interesting how you post a pic of a western movie hero....with your fear nobody would have ever moved west until after the railroads were built and the natives 'tamed'.

1. BZZZT No one suggested anything like that. You really like to project things on people.

2. You either didn't read my post, or couldn't grasp what I'd written. How long has it been since you last 'stepped away from the bong'. Too long I suspect.

3. Just because you've Forrest Gumped your way through life doesn't mean that others shouldn't analyse and manage risk.

+1. If you have to use a road thats like a 4 lane, well travelled and like 40-50mph and you can also take a less used residential road, it seems clear what one to take. I always try to minimise my time with traffic and take the less used road. It works for me.

All else equal, less traffic is a plus, yes. But unless the difference is extreme, I'd rather ride on a road with a good shoulder (to me, THE bike lane) than one with no shoulder.

roughstuff

The sky is falling, the sky is falling!


Enjoy your rides on the sidewalk, Chicken Little. :lol:

I don't know how to debate properly. :lol:

Enjoy riding on the interstate.

OK. I'll be looking for it on Youtube.

Sooner or later.

-Kurt

Enjoy riding on the interstate.

I have. :) I used to have to ride 1-25 in order to get to/from work. I guess you would have drove. :thumb:

Fact: as cyclists, we roll the dice everytime we share the road with motorized vehicles of any sort. Spend enough time out there, and we will get hit. All we can do is try to weight the dice in our favour, through route selection. Hopefully our number comes up after we've quit cycling.

Not true. Isolating route selection as the one mitigating factor to collisions makes this a false statement.

I have. :)

So have I.
So has everyone.
But that's not the issue here. Nor is it a matter of people avoiding any and all risk. I regularly try do things that scare me. Risk makes me feel alive.

But there's a huge difference in the probability of death between attempting a frightening jump on a mountain bike and riding every single day on the busiest highway one can find.
Yes, there's an immediate danger of cuts and bruises for the mountain biker.
But the highway man is in constant jeapardy. His odds worsen every moment he's out there. And if he's like Chippy, he's completely oblivious to it all.

That's the message.

I know that some accidents are unavoidable. Nothing is completely safe. But we have a responsibility to our loved ones to at least try to not get killed.

So have I.
So has everyone.
But that's not the issue here. Nor is it a matter of people avoiding any and all risk. I regularly try do things that scare me. Risk makes me feel alive.

But there's a huge difference in the probability of death between attempting a frightening jump on a mountain bike and riding every single day on the busiest highway one can find.
Yes, there's an immediate danger of cuts and bruises for the mountain biker.
But the highway man is in constant jeapardy. His odds worsen every moment he's out there. And if he's like Chippy, he's completely oblivious to it all.

That's the message.

I know that some accidents are unavoidable. Nothing is completely safe. But we have a responsibility to our loved ones to at least try to not get killed.

Hey, you brought it up...and I'm pretty sure you've never cycled on an Interstate, otherwise you wouldn't have thought it was such a good comeback. Nice try tho. :lol:

I have survived 40+ years of riding in traffic by not being 'oblivious' and also not getting myself all freaked out by the fears of chicken littles bound and determined to feel important by forcing their fears on others under the guise of wisdom. Now get back on the sidewalk before you get run over.

Not true. Isolating route selection as the one mitigating factor to collisions makes this a false statement.

Well spotted, CR.
Let's see... did we discuss time of day? Nope.
And how well our brakes are maintained?
Oooh! And tire pressure!
This is fun!

I know that some accidents are unavoidable. Nothing is completely safe. But we have a responsibility to our loved ones to at least try to not get killed.

But riding on American streets is not the same thing as trying to get killed.

It's impossible to accurately assess risks, due to a lack of good studies. But, based on what data's available, urban/suburban transport by bike and car seem to be about equally risky, while walking is more risky than either. (in the US)

But riding on American streets is not the same thing as trying to get killed.

It's impossible to accurately assess risks, due to a lack of good studies. But, based on what data's available, urban/suburban transport by bike and car seem to be about equally risky, while walking is more risky than either. (in the US)

We don't need no stinkin studies when we got plenty of good old fashioned fear to peddle.

Besides, what kinda guy takes his girlfriend, "a new cyclist," for a beginner's ride on a "road that had no shoulders and some rather windy curves"? I think most of the low traffic roads I find most pleasant to ride on meet this description. I imagine there are some roads that I wouldn't ride on that also meet this description, it's hard to know where the OP went.

I have been riding since the early '70s, and I really can't stereotype cars that well. I've never really noticed that the drivers of pickups were worse than any other vehicle type. I would say my least favorite vehicle to be passed by is a jacked up pickup with fake stacks and huge tires, followed by any vehicle that has been poorly modified to make lots of noise. But as far as anti-social behavior or dangerous driving, there doesn't seem to be a correlation to vehicle type.

Hey, you brought it up...and I'm pretty sure you've never cycled on an Interstate.
How exactly would you be sure of that? The same way you know that kid in the pickup truck behind you isn't about to drop a lit cigarette in his lap?
Or is it because I live in Europe now, and therefore never have cycled in Montana, Oregon, Louisiana, Washington, Colorado, Utah, Wyoming, and Idaho.

Now get back on the sidewalk before you get run over.

(sigh) Thanks for another gem, chipcom. You are nice.

I think most of the low traffic roads I find most pleasant to ride on meet this description. I imagine there are some roads that I wouldn't ride on that also meet this description, it's hard to know where the OP went.

I have been riding since the early '70s, and I really can't stereotype cars that well. I've never really noticed that the drivers of pickups were worse than any other vehicle type. I would say my least favorite vehicle to be passed by is a jacked up pickup with fake stacks and huge tires, followed by any vehicle that has been poorly modified to make lots of noise. But as far as anti-social behavior or dangerous driving, there doesn't seem to be a correlation to vehicle type.

From the OP's description of 50 cars passing him, I was thinking the traffic volume was fairly high.

I agree with you about the futility of stereotyping by vehicle type. To me, the scariest overtakers on shoulderless roads are snow plows and logging trucks. I will gladly take to the ditch (or snowberm) for either one.

How exactly would you be sure of that? The same way you know that kid in the pickup truck behind you isn't about to drop a lit cigarette in his lap?
Or is it because I live in Europe now, and therefore never have cycled in Montana, Oregon, Louisiana, Washington, Colorado, Utah, Wyoming, and Idaho.


(sigh) Thanks for another gem, chipcom. You are nice.

OK, chip was a little mean. But where do you ride, that you "avoid motorized traffic"? If you say "Holland" I will scream, although you won't be able to hear me.

Where in the US do you ride to "avoid motorized traffic"?

How exactly would you be sure of that? The same way you know that kid in the pickup truck behind you isn't about to drop a lit cigarette in his lap?
Or is it because I live in Europe now, and therefore never have cycled in Montana, Oregon, Louisiana, Washington, Colorado, Utah, Wyoming, and Idaho.

No, by the additional text I wrote that you just happened to snip. I see that dishonesty to suit your fear-mongering spin is also part of your toolbox. Nice.

But your reply also highlights the difference between you and I. I ride paying attention to my surroundings, while you ride worrying about when the perfect storm is going to get you. Do you use an umbrella as you ride, just in case pigs fly too?