Tandem Cycling - Best dual pivot caliper and pads???

Hi,

I just order a Reynolds ouzo pro Tandem carbon fork to install on our Cannondale tandem. The front brake will become a dual pivot caliper instead of the original disk brake. I would like to know what is the best dual pivot caliper regarding stopping power and also what brake pads do you recommend. The brake levers are Shimano Ultegra.

Thanks,
Cheetah

7800 series Dura Ace brakes and SwissStop green pads should stop a rhino. Will work great with your Ultegra levers too.

I am a Campy fan, so of course I would recommend the Record dual pivots. I have them [front and rear] with Kool stop salmons. The are attached to a Reynolds carbon fork and it stops much better than the junk it had on before.

If you mix a Campy caliper with a Shimano lever, you don't have a QR on your brake anymore. Makes taking the wheel out kind of hard unless you let the air out every time.

We use D/A on front of our tandem with the D/A pads. So far has lasted 23,000+ miles

Mavic SSC, dual pivot front and rear, relatively light, very responsive and easy to modulate. We've "tested" them up to 53mph as well as in our extremely wet Portland Oregon winters and they've performed brilliantly.

Have also had good results with Record but am partial to the Mavics.


KRhea

Mavic SSC, dual pivot front and rear, relatively light, very responsive and easy to modulate. We've "tested" them up to 53mph as well as in our extremely wet Portland Oregon winters and they've performed brilliantly.

Have also had good results with Record but am partial to the Mavics.


KRhea

+100000 to the Mavic SSC. Best I've ever used.

I think the Mavic don't have QR so they might be better adapted to Campy brake lever. With Shimano levers I need to have QR on the caliper. Just don't want to unflate the tire everytime I am putting the tandem in the mini-van. Is Dura-Ace the only option?

Andr0id, I believe you are using these Swisstop green brake pads. I think they were designed for very good performance in wet condition. What about dry condition and durability?

Zonatandem, do you know if you are using the 7800 or the 7900 Dura-Ace caliper. I am not sure what are the difference between the 2 but I just want to be sure that either one is strong enough to be abused by a Tandem.

Thanks to all,
Cheetah

I find the Mavic SSC's an interesting choice. Why did you go with the Mavic D-P?

The problem with the Mavic is they do not have a quick-release on the caliper itself. Without the QR it is almost impossible to remove the wheel without unflating the tire. The shimano system has a QR on the caliper while Campagnolo has a QR on the brake lever. This is why the Mavic DP might be a very good choice for Campy lever but not the best choice for a Shimano setup.

Cheetah

Andr0id, I believe you are using these Swisstop green brake pads. I think they were designed for very good performance in wet condition. What about dry condition and durability?

Zonatandem, do you know if you are using the 7800 or the 7900 Dura-Ace caliper. I am not sure what are the difference between the 2 but I just want to be sure that either one is strong enough to be abused by a Tandem.

Thanks to all,
Cheetah

The SwissStop green pads are really all weather and seem to work and last a long time either rain or shine. I use them on singles and put them on the tandem because my black Aztec and KoolStop pads were melting under pretty moderate use.

If you really want beefy Dura Ace, try and track down some 8 speed generation brakes. A few grams heavier, but they were super sturdy.

The problem with the Mavic is they do not have a quick-release on the caliper itself. Without the QR it is almost impossible to remove the wheel without unflating the tire. The shimano system has a QR on the caliper while Campagnolo has a QR on the brake lever. This is why the Mavic DP might be a very good choice for Campy lever but not the best choice for a Shimano setup.

Cheetah

Just set them up to run with the adjuster around 1/2 way out. Turn it all the way in to loosen the brakes. ;)

I also use the swiss stop green on most of my bikes :thumb::thumb:

Are not all duel pivot brakes basically mechanically the same? I would think having the quick-release would be the best solution.

Are not all duel pivot brakes basically mechanically the same? I would think having the quick-release would be the best solution.

They are the same in that they all have 2 pivot points...

The geometries can be totally different, as well as quality in construction (play in pivot points, etc).

Also, the SSC uses a leaf spring rather than a coil spring which enhances the braking feel.

I have used a few dual pivots, and can say the SSC are the best for power and feel (IMHO). Although I use Campy, so I don't know how much of a pain they would be w/out the QR. I do know they look nice without the QR ;)

I would like to know what is the best dual pivot caliper regarding stopping power and also what brake pads do you recommend.

The ones designed to work with your brake levers (Ultegra) are more than adequate and unless you have a problem with the OEM pads, there's no reason to replace them until it's time to replace them. Some climates and special rim materials may dictate a special compound, but by and large the OEM pads work just fine so long as they're relatively fresh. Brake pads that are a few years old do not work nearly as well as fresh ones.

Remember, except under extremely unusual conditions or when using exotic rims the brakes are only as effective as the operator... If you have to lock 'em up to stop before impact it's probably too late anyway. Just my .02 as this is true of all vehicles that don't have ABS... and even then ABS ain't no guarantee if there's just not enough time / distance.


They are the same in that they all have 2 pivot points...

The only disclaimer here is that Campagnolo markets their calipers as a 'differential' brake set. The differential / difference is that the front is indeed a dual pivot whereas the rear is a single pivot... noting that on a single bikes rear brakes don't need to generate all that much brake energy to lock the rear wheel. For tandems, a rear single pivot is marginal, even for a team of our weight (280lbs). We've always searched out the older pre-differential Chorus or Record brake sets and more recently I simply modified a front Campy Record Skeleton dual-pivot so that it could be installed on the rear wheel. Anyone need a pair of Campy Record Skeleton single pivot rear brakes?

The QR on our BR7700 brake does not release far enough to clear a 27mm tire (Michelin 700X25) mounted on a 20mm wide rim. I still have to let the air out to remove the wheel.

Cheetah:
We are using ther DA 7800, front only. Rear we use a MiniTektro.
Rudy/Zonatandem

Thanks to all for your help. It is really appreciated.

Have a nice day,
Cheetah

Re. best brakes, original posters have it. Some additional points

Two keys for good braking are good pads and cable setup.
- For pads I prefer swissstop blacks or yellows for carbon rims. I thought the green ones were for ceramic rims. New Dura Ace 7900 compound is also supposed to be a big improvement. Nothing wrong with Campag either in my experience
- A standard branded cable outer (Jagwire, Shimano, Campag) is fine as long as it's a) Just the right length. Most bikes come with over-long outers. Outer needs to run in a single arc between stops, so no double bends and not so short that it looks pulled. I find setting up by experimenting gradually cutting down some old outer until its just too short then transferring length to new cable and adding a bit works well. b) Ends ground flat and terminated properly. Easiest to do on a bench grinder. If not the ends kink as you pull the lever c) Firm cable stops. This is not an issue with caliper brakes, more for cantilever brakes. e.g. Trek tandems had a reputation for having bad rear cantis. Simple fix is to use a cable hanger integrated with the seat post clamp as the original hanger flexes a lot.
- If you want more performance then a metal compressionless cable outer helps a bit. Nokons or I-links are the two options here. The outer saves a little weight over standard cables but mainly compresses less, giving slightly (and we are talking marginal here) better brake power and feel. Also they look nice, particularly if you mix say red and black, but fiddly to set up. To save real weight you need Powercord inner cables. These are not standard available in tandem lengths, but I'm sure they would make you some. However I would personally not take the risk of using a non-standard cable. Slightly off topic, powercord shift cables could be nice (and expensive).

Regarding what brakes to get:
- The earlier Campag non skeleton dual pivot brakes are stiffer and heavier than the new ones, and come with a dual pivot rear brake. Put some new pads on these (fresher and better compound) and you have a great brake. I have these on one of my road bikes (single). It's a bit overkill but it goes with the rest of the groupset. Other non skeleton brakes from the same era (Chorus, Daytona) are also great, but Daytona uses bushings rather than ball bearings in the mechanism. In practice after some use this does not make a noticeable difference as my wife's Daytonas work better than my Records, probably because she rides less and washes her bike a lot lesss.
- The DA brakes are all good from 7700 onwards. I have a front one on our tandem. 7800s are better than 7700s reportedly. 7900s are not yet tandem compatible as they need more cable pull so should only be used with 7900 levers, which are not yet available for triple chainsets. That said, they are really very good brakes (have them on my best road bike), and some have reported that you can use them with 7800 levers if you set them up carefully, although feel will be a bit squishy but more powerful than usual
- My experience with Ultegra calipers was not so good. I had these also on a single road bike and never got on with them. They are much less powerful than 7900s and my Campag records in my experience.
- As other mentioned Mavics are supposed to be good. Another alternative is M5 - As good as DA / Record reportedly and quite a unique look. Think forth bridge, but expensive. I have not used them but a lot of heavier riders (single) and fast recumbent riders really like them.

So in summary, the cheap upgrade is to ensure the cable setup is perfect, then fit some Swiss Stop pads. For cheaper brakes NOS Daytona or old Dura Ace from ebay is nice. For expensive pick any of the ones above.

Thanks MrFish for all these info. It is appreciated. I am already using the Jagwire Ripcord Brake zero compression housing for the mecanical Avid BB7 so I am going to use the same housing for the new fork/caliper. The M5 are interesting and very particular but again I don't see any quick release feature on them. I Need to remove and reinstall my front wheel everytime I put the tandem in the mini-van so the q-r is a must. I will look for Dura-Ace 7800 and some Swisstop pad.

Cheetah

Zonatandem, do you know if you are using the 7800 or the 7900 Dura-Ace caliper. I am not sure what are the difference between the 2 but I just want to be sure that either one is strong enough to be abused by a Tandem.

Thanks to all,
Cheetah

We have Dura Ace 7800 on our tandem, with stock Dura Ace pads, and a team weight of 340lbs). We've descended Brasstown Bald (21% grade) and done Everest Cahllenge with it ( top speed downhill 62mph) and the brakes have worked fine.

Current generation Ultegra brakes would work just as well and be a little cheaper.

The M5 are interesting and very particular but again I don't see any quick release feature on them. I Need to remove and reinstall my front wheel everytime I put the tandem in the mini-van so the q-r is a must. I will look for Dura-Ace 7800 and some Swisstop pad.

Cheetah

I wonder if you can buy an M5 front only, or if you have to buy a set. Can buy an extra front mounting bolt any body interested in splitting a set?

The brakes are not listed singly. However if you ring up M5 you may be able to arrange something.

http://www.m5-ligfietsen.nl/site/EN/_m5__Lightweight_bike_parts/M5-side-pull-brake

I wonder if you can buy an M5 front only, or if you have to buy a set. Can buy an extra front mounting bolt any body interested in splitting a set?

From what I've just read, the M5's ARE impressive, but apparently so is the price. What's the best price you've seen? Oh, and what color are you wanting to "split a set" of? It has to match our bike (red) or our fork (black) or the stoker won't let me put it on! :innocent:

From what I've just read, the M5's ARE impressive, but apparently so is the price. What's the best price you've seen? Oh, and what color are you wanting to "split a set" of? It has to match our bike (red) or our fork (black) or the stoker won't let me put it on! :innocent:

Red!

do a search for "new Calfee" on this forum, I like your stokers attitude.

Red!

do a search for "new Calfee" on this forum, I like your stokers attitude.

hehe! Got it! Red it is then. But how much? May not be able to do anything till mid-month.

Our Supremo came with 7800 series dura ace calipers and I was not impressed at all, lots of flex and lousy feel. Look for an dura ace brake on e-bay from the 8sp. years. Much beefier caliper, no flex and much better feel. Gobs of stopping power, much better than cantilevers.