Mountain Biking - Disc Brakes???

Ok Im tryin to decide between Hydrolic and Mechanical... and which system is the best??? I just dont know if I wanna fool around with hydro's cause you have to worry about leaks and air bubbles and crap plus they seem alittle overkill for a bike IMO, but what are the pro's and con's of both types??? My local dealer said some Pro riders are goin mechanical because he "said" there no adjustable? but Im new on the subject and wanted some more opinions...

Later
Jake

hydraulic is best

advantages:
more consistant
more force at the piston
better modulation


disadvantages

some systems suffer from pump up

only cable discs worthy of being called brakes are Shimano Deore cable and Avid Mechs.
they're heavy
suffer from cable stretch (especially at the rear brake)

TimB has excellently covered all the aspects of discs,

I would like to add, that hydro-discs once setup properly, they almost never require any servicing... just splash water and mud on them for ages and they ll keep asking for more.

Ok Cool, so why do they put a front and a rear system? are the calipers different or just the length of Hydrolic line that comes with them? my Avids on my old bike looked the same front and rear the rear just had a little adapter but I have to have that for the front too and my new NRS... are these brakes a total waste of money or are they ok to start with? and whats the best place to buy brakes???

http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/12383-115_PROHD3-3-Parts-46-Brakes/Accessories-/Promax-XC-1.0-Hydraulic-Disc-Brakes.htm

The calipers are the same, it's just the hydraulic line is cut to a specific length and then the system is pre-bled from the factory. Usually all you do is bolt them on and adjust to keep from rubbing.

Unless of course you want to ride Euro (or MX) style and want the front lever to be on the right.

Then again, many manuf. are designing their levers to work on either side.

L8R

The calipers are the same, it's just the hydraulic line is cut to a specific length and then the system is pre-bled from the factory. Usually all you do is bolt them on and adjust to keep from rubbing.

Unless of course you want to ride Euro (or MX) style and want the front lever to be on the right.

Then again, many manuf. are designing their levers to work on either side.

L8R

On XT 2003 and Grimeca System8 the front and rear calipers are NOT the same, however on most disc brakes (hayes,hopes) they are indeed the same.

On XT 2003 and Grimeca System8 the front and rear calipers are NOT the same, however on most disc brakes (hayes,hopes) they are indeed the same.

Did NOT know that. Thanks!

L8R

Did NOT know that. Thanks!

L8R


Also one small note, i recently discovered that the only way to run a 7" rotor (180mm) on an XT is to use a rear caliper on the front, that way you dont need any adapters.

Ok Im tryin to decide between Hydrolic and Mechanical... and which system is the best??? I just dont know if I wanna fool around with hydro's cause you have to worry about leaks and air bubbles and crap plus they seem alittle overkill for a bike IMO, but what are the pro's and con's of both types??? My local dealer said some Pro riders are goin mechanical because he "said" there no adjustable? but Im new on the subject and wanted some more opinions...

Later
Jake

I own a bike with mechanical, and a bike with hydraulic brakes. My Blur has Hayes hydraulics, and my SISS has Avid mechanicals. Both brakes are excellent and do a superior job of stopping my bike relative to V-brakes. However, having said that, I'm changing the Avids to Hope hydraulics for one reason only - mechanical cables get dirty and that sticks up the brakes. The hydraulics are always smooth and consistent regardless of conditions.

BTW, the Avid mechanicals are lighter than most hydraulics - so don't think just because it's mechanical, it's heavy - that's not the case. They are also a great choice if you don't mind lubing/changing cables.

Good luck with your choice!

My '04 Haro Extreme X2 has a Hayes HFX-9 8" hydraulic disc brake on the front, and a Hayes MX1 HD 8" mechanical disc brake on the rear. I have both complete sets, hydraulic & mechanical, but when one is in need of repair I simply install the other to continue riding... To be honest, I cannot really tell any difference between the two. One huge advantage for the MX1's is the fact that if the brake line is snagged or cut, you still have brakes. This isn't the case if something similar happens to the hydraulic's... I was flying DH on one of my bikes recently, and the hydraulic line just happened to wear a hole in it where it joins a cable stay. Needless to say, I had to use my front brake all the way back to my vehicle...

If I had to choose one over the other, I'd choose MX1 (mechanical). Simply because unless the cable breaks, you can still use them.... Period.

http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/13074-115_HAYHD4-3-Parts-46-Brakes/Accessories-/Hayes-Disc-Brakes-MX-1-DH.htm

@ $140 a pair, you can't go wrong. I for one, can attest to the brakes ability to work and work well. Avid's may be better, but I'd have to see it to believe it. These will stop my bike as good as my HFX-9's do, no kidding....

I own a bike with mechanical, and a bike with hydraulic brakes. My Blur has Hayes hydraulics, and my SISS has Avid mechanicals. Both brakes are excellent and do a superior job of stopping my bike relative to V-brakes. However, having said that, I'm changing the Avids to Hope hydraulics for one reason only - mechanical cables get dirty and that sticks up the brakes. The hydraulics are always smooth and consistent regardless of conditions.

BTW, the Avid mechanicals are lighter than most hydraulics - so don't think just because it's mechanical, it's heavy - that's not the case. They are also a great choice if you don't mind lubing/changing cables.

Good luck with your choice!
The cable issue is solved by using either full housing, or better yet with Gore Ride-on Cables using their liner system.

@ $140 a pair, you can't go wrong. I for one, can attest to the brakes ability to work and work well. Avid's may be better, but I'd have to see it to believe it. These will stop my bike as good as my HFX-9's do, no kidding....

I've dealt with both the MX-1's and the Avid's and I can tell the difference IMHO the Avid's are a marginally superior brake.
An observation:
A wise MTB'er will carry an extra brake cable with them to prevent onebrakitis.

No cable will last like a hydro line. It's not uncommon for 4-5+ year old hydro brakes to still be using the original lines and feel perfect. I have rideon gear cables and they have just got to the point where they need replacing after about a year and a half. My hydro brakes feel the same as they did when they where fitted.

Often the front and rear calpers are the same but will require a smaller diameter disk on the rear than the front.

The cable issue is solved by using either full housing, or better yet with Gore Ride-on Cables using their liner system.

I used full housings, and given the muck I ride through, they just don't last. I considered going with a more sealed system, but then decided to just go with full hydraulics. The Avid with one of the more sealed cable systems would also be a good call though! Good point!

Is anyone using such a system?

I've dealt with both the MX-1's and the Avid's and I can tell the difference IMHO the Avid's are a marginally superior brake.
An observation:
A wise MTB'er will carry an extra brake cable with them to prevent onebrakitis.

**************************************************************************
If your "onebrakitis" comment was directed @ me, then I must correct you misunderstanding. My brakes are hydraulics, soooooo the extra brake line wouldn't do me a hellova lotta good, would it? Maybe I should carry a bleed kit, pint of DTE Lite oil, and that extra line you mentioned in order to stay "wise". :rolleyes:

PS. before everyone dismisses all other mechanical brakes, except the Avid's, may I point out that the '04 Hayes MX1's & MX2's have all ball bearing components too. They cost less because they're not paying out enormous advertising $$$ like Avid is. Don't get me wrong, Avid makes great brakes, but so do other companies.... Just a thought to ponder. ;)

Juicy 7's are hydro brakes.

No offence. But the hayes mechs almost got me killed. I will never recommend them. they had varrying degrees of power and no consistency.

No offence. But the hayes mechs almost got me killed. I will never recommend them. they had varrying degrees of power and no consistency.

**********************************************************************

Were they 2004's? They are totally different than previous models. I like mine equally as well as my HFX-9's, honest.... The stopping power is right there too, although I do have to pull back on the lever with two fingers instead of one. :D

ok...I gotta admit it was the 2002 and 2003's I tried.

My cousin has the 04's and so far (1st month) they have buttload of locking power...no modulation, but the things stop :D

ok...I gotta admit it was the 2002 and 2003's I tried.

My cousin has the 04's and so far (1st month) they have buttload of locking power...no modulation, but the things stop :D

***********************************************************

Just like myself, Things get Better with Age ... :p Just kiddin! (not about the brakes though)

how are the Hayes HFX Mag disc brakes? I was going to get avid mechs but with all the talk of hydros being alot better than cable discs I figure taht I might as well get hydros now and be happy, vs getting mechs now and then getting hydros later.

the HFX mag's: http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/11302-115_HAYB21-3-Parts-46-Brakes/Accessories-/Hayes-HFX-Mag-Disc-Brake-Kit---All-Black.htm

how are the Hayes HFX Mag disc brakes? I was going to get avid mechs but with all the talk of hydros being alot better than cable discs I figure taht I might as well get hydros now and be happy, vs getting mechs now and then getting hydros later.

the HFX mag's: http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/11302-115_HAYB21-3-Parts-46-Brakes/Accessories-/Hayes-HFX-Mag-Disc-Brake-Kit---All-Black.htm

******************************************************

I have both the '04 Hayes HFX-9 DH 8" and a set of '04 Hayes MX-1's DH 8" disc brakes. At present, I am using the hydro on front & the mechanical on rear. I am having the hydro rear repaired since I spilt brake fluid on the shoes while changing it. I'm letting the LBS do it this time for $25. Anyway, both sets are VERY good IMO. I'd be happy with either set, and the MX-1's were about 1/2 price of the hydraulics. The MX-1's work excellent, but they are practically brand new still.... Will they get worse as far as stopping later on? Only time will tell. I haven't owned them long enuf yet.

Thanks! From the reviews this brake seems like it's pretty good.

BTW what does modulation mean? I think it has something to do with the lever pull but im not sure.

There is no equal ;)
http://www.hopetech.com/images/new/mono_4_caliper_&_disc.gif

I would get the hope brakes...

but there too expensive :cry:

Thanks for all the replies guys but Im not looking to spend 500 bucks on brakes... Im not that advanced yet... are the brakes I listed above a total waste of money?

Later
Jake

Ok Im tryin to decide between Hydrolic and Mechanical... and which system is the best??? I just dont know if I wanna fool around with hydro's cause you have to worry about leaks and air bubbles and crap plus they seem alittle overkill for a bike IMO, but what are the pro's and con's of both types??? My local dealer said some Pro riders are goin mechanical because he "said" there no adjustable? but Im new on the subject and wanted some more opinions...

Later
Jake

I run Hayes Hydros 8" F, 6" R and it's all the stopping power you'll ever need. I'm 245 & ride a 60LB Brooklyn monster.

If your "onebrakitis" comment was directed @ me, then I must correct you(r) misunderstanding. My brakes are hydraulics, SO the extra brake line wouldn't do me a helluva lot of good, would it? Maybe I should carry a bleed kit, pint of DTE Lite oil, and that extra line you mentioned in order to stay "wise". :rolleyes:


Someone's a bit oversensitive :cry: Maybe you should skip the bleed kit and carry some talcum and a pair of safety pins instead. :eek:
My comment related to the fact that with mechanical discs a cable failure can be easily repaired trail side with the wisely carried spare cable whereas with the hydros your stuck like Chuck with a dreaded case of onebrakitis. If you were to carry the bleed kit and the rest of that crap with you you wouldn't be wise at all you'd be someone who can't comprehend context. What good would a brake cable be for a hydraulic brake? That doesn't even make sense Sparky.

There is no equal ;)
http://www.hopetech.com/images/new/mono_4_caliper_&_disc.gif
Those ARE dead sexy.

Thanks for all the replies guys but Im not looking to spend 500 bucks on brakes... Im not that advanced yet... are the brakes I listed above a total waste of money?

Later
Jake


I wouldn't get Promax brakes.(note: this is ONLY based on what I have HEARD and been TOLD) If you want to go cheap I would still recommend the Avid mechs or maybe the Hayes(I don't know about hayes mech, never used them before).



here are the Hayes HFX-9 brakes that Xtreme biker was talking about:

http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/12380-115_HAYHH3-3-Parts-46-Brakes/Accessories-/Hayes-HFX-9-HD-Disc-Brake-.htm

$100 each.

Disc brake kit(not sure what is in the "Kit" ill post it once they e-mail me back):

http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/11302-115_HAYB21-3-Parts-46-Brakes/Accessories-/Hayes-HFX-Mag-Disc-Brake-Kit---All-Black.htm

$140 for the kit.

I wouldn't get Promax brakes. I have heard/read/been told lots of bad things about the brakes. If you want to go cheap I would still recommend the Avid mechs or maybe the Hayes(I don't know about hayes mech, never used them before).

<snip>.I wouldn't put Promax discs on my worst enemies ride. Heck they can barely handle making a working V-brake for crying out loud.

Thanks! From the reviews this brake seems like it's pretty good.

BTW what does modulation mean? I think it has something to do with the lever pull but im not sure.

When you pull the lever hard it locks. Anything in between is modulation. I find from experience, hydros have lots of in between (what seem like and endless supply of modulation) the initial pull and locking power.

well you can't change the laws of physics unless you have really good proof.

Mech disks: Cable actuated= cable stretch due to tensile forces = loss of force which means less braking torque

hydro disks: incompressible fluid so force transfer from lever to caliper piston is much more efficient. Modulation comes from flexing in brake lever and brake pad material not force transfer media ie cable. :rolleyes:

physics says the hydro's will perform better. I believe in physics not pseudo science. now just select the hydro's that perform to your liking :o

yes there are mechanical disk brake that function adequately but these (and i mention no names) are no better than excellent V's (cane creek, XTR, AVID) in the dry.
In the wet the better V's can also perform quite well if yu use the correct brake pad for those conditions.

mechanical disks are a waste of money for the serious rider but do provide a low cost disk market entry for upgraders and beginners

Ok, now i know not to get anything promax... are Shimano Saint disks brakes any good? there $109.99 at pricepoint...

Later
Jake

With the saint discs you need the saint hub and then the saint deraileur. But yes they are good brakes.

Ok that rules them out... I nocticed yall said the Hope brakes are the best, how much does a front and rear hope system wieght? I read there 2014 aluminum thats some light stuff...

Later
Jake

I don't think hopes are the best. To be honest Shimano and hayes make the best feeling brakes to me. Hope lockup like a dream (this is the opposite of what most people say but it is what I find) but I find their modulation lacking. Also everyone I know running current hopes don't like the maintenance and find them finicky to setup.

For weight, the hope mini's are lightest by far.

Hope brakes are pretty expensive. I would take a look at the old shimano XT or the Hayes HFX-9.

Read the reviews (http://www.mtbr.com/reviews/disc_brake_system/)

I swear by my Hayes. I used others and just keep going back to my old faithful Hayes.

Also, since they're so well known, you can usually find a good deal on them.

I bought a PAIR for $69.00 on closeout! YEAH, a PAIR for $69. WITH rotors!

L8R

With the saint discs you need the saint hub and then the saint deraileur. But yes they are good brakes.


Actually thats wrong. Saint Disc calipers are the same as XT.
So if you have Saint calipers, you can use them with any 203mm disc rotor, 6bolt IS or Shimano Saint hubs.
But you can also use any other hubs you want.

There is no equal ;)
http://www.hopetech.com/images/new/mono_4_caliper_&_disc.gif
True. :)
One of the best things is being able to change pads on-the-fly without removing the wheel: wet ride? swap out the organic pads for the sintereds. Plus they have a (accessible) return spring - despite being an 'open' system. Gives that little bit of extra tunability. :)
Even the hose you get with them is pretty decent; none of that useless plastic tubing.

Get these brakes, and get to riding, dang-it....

http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/12380-115_HAYHH3-3-Parts-46-Brakes/Accessories-/Hayes-HFX-9-HD-Disc-Brake-.htm

I love mine! :p This price is $50 less than I paid just two months ago too!

You WON'T beat the price nor the brakes, I promise. Been there, done that....

how are the Hayes HFX Mag disc brakes? I was going to get avid mechs but with all the talk of hydros being alot better than cable discs I figure taht I might as well get hydros now and be happy, vs getting mechs now and then getting hydros later.

yeah well i have a set of hayes HFX brakes and i absolutely love it! You don't really have to do much with the hydro once you have them, no fuss, and powerful consitent braking :D ;) i'll say get hydros for sure

I have experienced the difference first hand. I have mechanical discs while my friend has hydros. I have ridden both bikes, and honestly, without exaguration, his brakes stop twice as fast. It depends on what kind of riding you're doing. Trail is one thing and technical single track is another. Also, from magazines you can get hydraulic discs for like 200 bucks. Then, you can have your local bike shop install them. Good luck.

-Matt

how are the Hayes HFX Mag disc brakes? I was going to get avid mechs but with all the talk of hydros being alot better than cable discs I figure taht I might as well get hydros now and be happy, vs getting mechs now and then getting hydros later.

yeah well i have a set of hayes HFX brakes and i absolutely love it! You don't really have to do much with the hydro once you have them, no fuss, and powerful consitent braking :D ;) i'll say get hydros for sure

******************************************************************************

I believe the Mag's are a little lighter weight than the reg. Hayes Hydro's. The DH's that I own have the Ti colored lever & caliper "housings" with black levers. I also have 8" rotors f/r, so I'm likely to have one of the heavier sets. My housings are aluminum vs. the magnesium on the Mag's. Slight weight savings on the Mag's. Here's a pic of all three models....The Mag Plus model are lighter than both.... But more $$$$ of course.

PS. I also own a set of '04 Hayes MX1 DH's with 8" rotors f/r, and they work very well also, and they cost much less... It's really a matter of how you ride, and how much $$$ you want to spend. I can only recommend the Hayes MX1 DH mechanical's though, as they're the only mechanical's I personally used.

well I can get a deal on the mags at the lbs. The manager said he'll let me have a pair of '03 mags for $170 if I buy my disc wheels from him. I was planning to buy the wheels from him anyway so this is a bonus, but I just wanted to know if the mag's were any good.

Looks like I'm going to be going for the hayes mag brakes. thanks for your help.

xtr hydraulic

1)light
2)amazing modluation
3)probably above $500 :(

For caliper and rotor (non splined but the old ones using ISO) - 171 cdn
The new one - 200 cdn

Doesn't seem unreasonable at all. Hopes are close to double that. Saint is even cheaper at 171 (same as the old xtr)

EDIT I am not 100% sure if that includes the lever.