Touring - Touring on a road frame

Howdy,

I've gone through the whole forum list and my questions have been peripherally answered, but I figured I'd post directly for comments and opinions.

I'm thinking of riding from Toronto to Montreal near the end of the summer (I read the primer on doing it along the waterfront trail and the Thousand Islands parkway, it seems like a very pleasant trip and relatively altitude-free trip - I've done it on the 401 many times, but this seems like a nicer way to see things). I own a road bike (a Univega Modo Vincere), steel frame with Campagnolo components. It doesn't have eyelets or dropouts for attaching racks to. I'm considering camping a few times along the way, which will necessitate things like getting a tent and carrying a sleeping bag etc.

Panniers appear to be out of the question, due to the lack of place to put them and relative fragility of racing frames. I'm thinking perhaps a trailer would be a good option. I've read pros and cons of the BOB (which I was thinking of originally) and the Burley Nomad. Conceputally the BOB seems nicer, but if there's an issue with stress on the chainstays, that could be problematic. I'm also wondering what else would need doing to make the bike tour worthy. It's riding on Mavic CXP 21 rims with 700x23 tires at the moment (I don't know how much past 700x25 would be supported due to tight clearances) with a 52x42x30 triple on front and a 13-23 9-speed rear cassette. I think I can replace the inner chainring with a 26, but I'm less certain about what can be done at the back. Campy stuff is road-only, so putting MTB style bits on seems infeasible (it would also be nice if I didn't need to swap parts off for unloaded riding).

Comments appreciated - many thanks.

Panniers appear to be out of the question, due to the lack of place to put them and relative fragility of racing frames. I'm thinking perhaps a trailer would be a good option. I've read pros and cons of the BOB (which I was thinking of originally) and the Burley Nomad. Conceputally the BOB seems nicer, but if there's an issue with stress on the chainstays, that could be problematic. I'm also wondering what else would need doing to make the bike tour worthy. It's riding on Mavic CXP 21 rims with 700x23 tires at the moment (I don't know how much past 700x25 would be supported due to tight clearances) with a 52x42x30 triple on front and a 13-23 9-speed rear cassette. I think I can replace the inner chainring with a 26, but I'm less certain about what can be done at the back. Campy stuff is road-only, so putting MTB style bits on seems infeasible (it would also be nice if I didn't need to swap parts off for unloaded riding).

Comments appreciated - many thanks.

I don't think you will regret using a BOB trailer I have had one for about 3 years now and love it. As far as the road frame I pulled the BOB last year with my miyata 911 for about 700kms with no problems. The gearing that you have on your bike would probably be al right if you are relatively strong. However with only a 23 for a top gear you may feel the need for an easier gear. If you went to a 24 or 26 for a small ring on the front that would probably do the trick.
As far as tires go I toured with 700X23 but the ride was rough and if I was to do it again I would go with 700X26 or 32

Good luck

Wow, toured on 23's? I'm on 28's and think myself on the skinny side of things... = )


That said, I own a yak and love it. Smooth, low the ground... it does mean another size tube to be carrying around, but them little wheels are indestructible next to our big ol road ones. My concern with the yak is that it might not be worth the money for one tour, but even if you never toured again its nice to have for training (throw some water gallons back there, or a dog...) and reselling them is not usually difficult.


Best of luck, that sounds like a great ride....


Matt

I'd find the biggest, ruggedest tires that will fit. You can fix a tire, but replacing one in a remote area is a major pain in the butt.

The Bob will be great the way you are planning on packing. Don't make the mistake I have witnessed many make with the bob. Just because the bag might hold it, doesn't mean you should take it with you. The taller you stack it, the harder it is to handle the bike at low speeds. I once saw two guys on a tandem with the waterproof bag stuffed full, and a hiking backpack bungeed on top of that make it about 300 yards, before losing control and wiping out totally. The stoker was road rashed all down his right side.
I have a bob and use it some, but leave it at home, if I can get by with panniers which is most of the time, on the road. One great use I have found for it when camping is to unhook it from the bike, and flip the trailer over. . . It makes a great dinner table/stove top.

I would not use the Bob due to increase friction and stopping distances. They do make a pannier system for bikes that do not have the braze-on points on the rearstays. go to: http://www.jandd.com/search_results.asp?txtsearchParamTxt=&txtsearchParamCat=3&txtsearchParamType=ALL&txtsearchParamMan=ALL&txtsearchParamVen=ALL&txtFromSearch=fromSearch&iLevel=2&subcat=13 Scan towards the bottom.

Also Adventure cycling has a system too.

I do light short (150 to 160 miles) distance touring on my road bike and I'm not so sure I would want to do a real long one without going to a touring bike due the the road bike inherit stiffness. I have done credit card trips some years back from San Francisco to Santa Barbara California on my road bike. All I carry on those trips is my seatbag with all the fixit stuff, and a handlebar bag with food, jacket etc.

Howdy,

I've gone through the whole forum list and my questions have been peripherally answered, but I figured I'd post directly for comments and opinions.

I'm thinking of riding from Toronto to Montreal near the end of the summer (I read the primer on doing it along the waterfront trail and the Thousand Islands parkway, it seems like a very pleasant trip and relatively altitude-free trip - I've done it on the 401 many times, but this seems like a nicer way to see things). I own a road bike (a Univega Modo Vincere), steel frame with Campagnolo components. It doesn't have eyelets or dropouts for attaching racks to. I'm considering camping a few times along the way, which will necessitate things like getting a tent and carrying a sleeping bag etc.

Panniers appear to be out of the question, due to the lack of place to put them and relative fragility of racing frames. I'm thinking perhaps a trailer would be a good option. I've read pros and cons of the BOB (which I was thinking of originally) and the Burley Nomad. Conceputally the BOB seems nicer, but if there's an issue with stress on the chainstays, that could be problematic. I'm also wondering what else would need doing to make the bike tour worthy. It's riding on Mavic CXP 21 rims with 700x23 tires at the moment (I don't know how much past 700x25 would be supported due to tight clearances) with a 52x42x30 triple on front and a 13-23 9-speed rear cassette. I think I can replace the inner chainring with a 26, but I'm less certain about what can be done at the back. Campy stuff is road-only, so putting MTB style bits on seems infeasible (it would also be nice if I didn't need to swap parts off for unloaded riding).

Comments appreciated - many thanks.

You can run a campy cassette 13-29 with a long cage campy rear derailer. You can make the chainrings smaller with a 30x40x50 crankset too.

[QUOTE=froze]I would not use the Bob due to increase friction and stopping distances.

I'm confused. How is your stopping distance greater with a BOB than with a set of loaded panniers? Your stopping distance would be directly related to the weight of your rig and increases as you add weight. It should make no difference if the weight is carried or pulled.
Correct me if I missed something

I think you can use small rubber-coated clamps to mount a rack on bikes w/o eyelets.

I tour on a steel (Ishiwata 022) sport/racing frame. Mine has eyelets on the dropouts but none up on the seat stays so I use a brake mount rack. A steel racing frame will handle the extra load.

As far as tires go, get as big as you can fit. I normally tour with 700x28 but have gone with 25 and even 23 on occasion.

Gearing required depends on the terrain, your fitness, and total weight (you, bike, and gear). If you don't have any steep stuff on your route, you may get by with what you have on there now. I've toured with 28/38/48 and 13-24 in moderately rolling terrain.

After playing around with smaller granny rings, I replaced a Campy triple with an MTB chainset; the Mirage mechs and changes cope well enough.
Campy doesnt like a big jump from mid-low, the horizontal throw is too much and the chain gets dumped onto the bottom bracket. A 40-26 jump is too much for the mech.

[QUOTE=froze]I would not use the Bob due to increase friction and stopping distances.

I'm confused. How is your stopping distance greater with a BOB than with a set of loaded panniers? Your stopping distance would be directly related to the weight of your rig and increases as you add weight. It should make no difference if the weight is carried or pulled.
Correct me if I missed something

A bicycle trailer (even the single-wheel type) weighs substantially more that a set of panniers and racks. The additional weight and friction of the extra tire of the trailer will noticeably slow the bike and add stress to the bikes braking system. Also can cause some handling problems on downhills (trailing load effect); and another wheel type to cope with for maintenance. Note that while trailers are generally easier on the bike since the load is trailing rather than hanging on the bike, there is some evidence that trailers may cause more rear spoke breakage due to the sideways torque resulting from the trailer attachment to the rear wheel axle. Bicycles with stronger rear triangles appear to handle trailers best.

Thanks for all the responses so far. Clamps would probably work to attach a rack onto the bike, and the Old Man Mountain racks seem to use the QR skewer for attachment (anyone have experience with these?) but the short chainstays on the frame would likely make heel clearance a problem with panniers, which is why the trailer seems somewhat more appealing.

For those advocating the BOB solution, how much of an issue is tongue load? I gather that there's siginificantly more weight on the rear axle with a single wheeled trailer than with two wheel versions. How much weight can a expect to be able to load the trailer with while keeping the handling acceptable and the axle/spokes from breaking? I'm thinking of picking up a Sierra Designs Orion AST tent, which isn't ultralight but seems to have other advantages, and my sleeping bag is fairly light - I just wouldn't want the camping stuff to take up most of the weight I can get, particularly if the trailer needs to be loaded much lower with a road frame! (I'm hoping it wouldn't top out at more than say 25 pounds anyway...)

Thanks again!

Thanks for all the responses so far. Clamps would probably work to attach a rack onto the bike, and the Old Man Mountain racks seem to use the QR skewer for attachment (anyone have experience with these?) but the short chainstays on the frame would likely make heel clearance a problem with panniers, which is why the trailer seems somewhat more appealing.

For those advocating the BOB solution, how much of an issue is tongue load? I gather that there's siginificantly more weight on the rear axle with a single wheeled trailer than with two wheel versions. How much weight can a expect to be able to load the trailer with while keeping the handling acceptable and the axle/spokes from breaking? I'm thinking of picking up a Sierra Designs Orion AST tent, which isn't ultralight but seems to have other advantages, and my sleeping bag is fairly light - I just wouldn't want the camping stuff to take up most of the weight I can get, particularly if the trailer needs to be loaded much lower with a road frame! (I'm hoping it wouldn't top out at more than say 25 pounds anyway...)

Thanks again!

When I pulled a bob down the C&O Canal, I packed two sets of clothes, tent, sleeping bag, and small cookstove, cookware, spare tubes, took kit. I doubt seriously that the load was close to 25#. And as light as this was packed, it handled awesome. I really can't speak of tongue weight, as I only unhooked it once while on the C&O, but do recall it as being awkward as heck to hook back up with the bag back inside the trailer. . . Bare in mind, that I was on a mountain bike, and included food/snacks in a small rear rack and a small handlebar bag for quick essentials. My gut feeling is with what you have planned, it will work fine.
Its a shame your not closer to me. I would loan you my bob and extra skewer to let you decide for yourself! It would be a shame for you to buy one and only use on this trip, or find out it doesn't work for you . . . .

A bicycle trailer (even the single-wheel type) weighs substantially more that a set of panniers and racks.

I've already committed to using racks and panniers for touring, so I would be otherwise biased on this issue, but here's what I found when I looked up info on a Burley Nomad verus Arkel panniers with Jannd racks. All weights are from the manufacturer:

Burley trailer with wheels: 14.5 lbs / 8000 cu in capacity (don't know if this includes the cover tarp)


Arkel TT-84 panniers: 7 lbs for 5200 cu in
Arkel TT-38 panniers: 4.2 lbs for 2300 cu in

Jannd Expedition Rear Rack: 2.2 lbs
Front Rack: 1.66 lbs

Let's say the Burley would weigh 3 more pounds with the tarp. That's 17.5 lbs.

The pannier/rack setup, with almost the same capacity, weighs 7+4.2+2.2+1.66 = 15.06 lbs.

The BOB trailer is advertised as 1 lb lighter. I think the tarps/bags that come with the trailers are supposedly watertight. The Arkel bags need optional rain covers, although are supposedly water resistant without. Some may prefer to use an even heavier rack (are the welded chromoly racks heavier?) with such large capacity panniers. The trailers have one big storage area, which may lead one to use smaller sacks to divide the cargo space, adding more weight. I know that my mid-sized Arkel panniers, even though they have some pockets, still need plastic bags to separate items in the main storage area. But plastic bags weigh nothing.

There may be something I'm missing, but it appears the trailer is very competitive with the rack/pannier setup in terms of weight. Certainly 2.5 pounds is a small burden on a bike that is going to be loaded down with an additional 30-50 lbs of stuff. As far as the wind resistance of the panniers versus the rolling resistance of an extra wheel or two, and issues of shifting the load off the bike to a trailer, I don't know.

I'll still keep using my arkel panniers and Jannd rear rack just because I don't need much more capacity than that.